[LUX] That Map Expansion You All Probably Might Not Have Forgotten About

[futuregary]

It is.

215 CE: The reforms of Alexandros III continue. All men serving in the Roman Army, including citizens of Roman client states are given Roman citizenship. Vachagan I becomes king of Caucasian Albania. Alexandros III sends a large fleet and army under the command of his son Lucius to Southern Erythrea in a bid to establish control over the Red Sea and Indian Ocean trade routes. The province of Erythrea Adalia is founded and a large Roman military presence dispatched to the region, spearheaded by the reformed Legio X Fretensis.

This is from Shay, not me. Originally, he planned to have him where Harerge is right now, but in the original screenshot we couldn't read whatever was supposed to be there so we filled it in with Phoenicians. When making the expansion, I just moved him down further south.

 

[Martellus.]

It is.

i need a minute
and possibly an adult.
I guess I have one last branch of the Julio-Argeadai to do...

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

I imagine that the Persian Equatorial Guinea is correct too?

 

[Roald]

Yeah, that's intentional.

 

[Furion Matsuya]

Just wondering since it was mentioned that some more flavour or something might be crated for Islam eventually in the case of one of it's branches managing to mostly unite the faith or what not, will there be small flavoured events or text for say Christians conquering the Eastern Roman Empire or viseversa or the Egyptian Pagans driving Islam and Apollo-Helios out of the ancient homeland etc ?

 

[futuregary]

I imagine that the Persian Equatorial Guinea is correct too?

Yerp! Rather than go back and get executed, he decided to stay there and build a temple to Angra Mainyu, as a middle finger to the Persians who sent him on a suicide mission.

Just wondering since it was mentioned that some more flavour or something might be crated for Islam eventually in the case of one of it's branches managing to mostly unite the faith or what not, will there be small flavoured events or text for say Christians conquering the Eastern Roman Empire or viseversa or the Egyptian Pagans driving Islam and Apollo-Helios out of the ancient homeland etc ?

Those are both good ideas. Ultimately, every religion should get some kind of flavor event; otherwise it's basically a bunch of SELINized Catholic/Islamic/Pagan/Hindu copies.

 

[Martellus.]

Is there a timeline note about the Greeks (the Dionysian ones south of Erythrea, in OTL Tanzania)? Just curious about their religion/how they got there, but I can't find anything on them.

 

[futuregary]

Is there a timeline note about the Greeks (the Dionysian ones south of Erythrea, in OTL Tanzania)? Just curious about their religion/how they got there, but I can't find anything on them.

Now that one is sort of made up. Rhapta was a major port mentioned in the Periplus, but it doesn't mention much about the kind of people that live there. I would assume IRL they were Bantu-speakers, probably Swahili, but I already put in a Swahili republic and noticed that the name "Rhapta" came from Greek. I kind of just followed that train of thought and had Rhapta as a Greek trading colony to compete with Mombasa (and Zanzibar in lore, but Zanzibar isn't a republic in-game).

 

[Martellus.]

Now that one is sort of made up. Rhapta was a major port mentioned in the Periplus, but it doesn't mention much about the kind of people that live there. I would assume IRL they were Bantu-speakers, probably Swahili, but I already put in a Swahili republic and noticed that the name "Rhapta" came from Greek. I kind of just followed that train of thought and had Rhapta as a Greek trading colony to compete with Mombasa (and Zanzibar in lore, but Zanzibar isn't a republic in-game).

Okay, I'll come up with something fun for them. I'm thinking a Ptolemaic expedition around the time of Eurgetes just like... forgets to come back.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Yerp! Rather than go back and get executed, he decided to stay there and build a temple to Angra Mainyu, as a middle finger to the Persians who sent him on a suicide mission.



Those are both good ideas. Ultimately, every religion should get some kind of flavor event; otherwise it's basically a bunch of SELINized Catholic/Islamic/Pagan/Hindu copies.

Fantastic xD

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

Yerp! Rather than go back and get executed, he decided to stay there and build a temple to Angra Mainyu, as a middle finger to the Persians who sent him on a suicide mission.

Well bugger me

 

[Attalus]

While we are on the questions about the map :
- what is this Norseman doing in Komiland ( I think Njola is a special religion but it has no description )
- why is Madagascar Ependerian ? ( I assume Ependerian is Malaysian according to the TL )

 

[futuregary]

Okay, I'll come up with something fun for them. I'm thinking a Ptolemaic expedition around the time of Eurgetes just like... forgets to come back.

According to Claudius Ptolemy, Diogenes, a merchant in the Indian trade, was blown off course from his usual route from India, and after travelling 25 days south along the coast of Africa arrived at Rhapta, located where the river of the same name enters the Indian Ocean opposite the island of Menouthias. Diogenes further describes this river as having its source near the Mountains of the Moon, near the swamp whence the Nile was said to also have its source.

You could do something with that, maybe.

While we are on the questions about the map :
- what is this Norseman doing in Komiland ( I think Njola is a special religion but it has no description )
- why is Madagascar Ependerian ? ( I assume Ependerian is Malaysian according to the TL )

The Norse are in Komiland because it's where I put Darkgamma's night-worshipping Nordlanders. Already talked about the religion, see above or in the main thread.

You're right about Madagascar; expeditions from Epanderia to Africa basically substituted the Malagasy migrations. The northern half, following the Epanderian religion, is Sthaviravada Buddhist, while a Konphosian minority live on the southern half.

 

[Martellus.]

According to Claudius Ptolemy, Diogenes, a merchant in the Indian trade, was blown off course from his usual route from India, and after travelling 25 days south along the coast of Africa arrived at Rhapta, located where the river of the same name enters the Indian Ocean opposite the island of Menouthias. Diogenes further describes this river as having its source near the Mountains of the Moon, near the swamp whence the Nile was said to also have its source.

You could do something with that, maybe.



The Norse are in Komiland because it's where I put Darkgamma's night-worshipping Nordlanders. Already talked about the religion, see above or in the main thread.

You're right about Madagascar; expeditions from Epanderia to Africa basically substituted the Malagasy migrations. The northern half, following the Epanderian religion, is Sthaviravada Buddhist, while a Konphosian minority live on the southern half.

Okay, so very briefly, it would be something like this:

49 CE: An Greco-Indian merchant by the name of Diogenes is thrown off course from his usual route and arrives in Rhapta. An expedition inland leads him to the so-called 'Mountains of the Moon' and the source of the Nile River.
114 CE: Marinus of Tyre, a Seleucid cartographer and mathematician, studies the diaries of Diogenes and predicts a potential location for the source of the Nile in Azania.
150 CE: Ptolemy of Alexandria composes his Geographia, which incorporates the works of Marinus. The philosopher king Ptolemy XXIII Caesarion orders a geographical and military expedition to discover the source of the Nile and Mountains of the Moon. Pausanias, a Greek explorer and cartographer, is hired to lead the journey.
151 CE: Pausanias's expedition arrives in Rhapta. Rather than immediately journey to the source of the Nile, Pausanias uses the soldiers he was given to establish himself as the ruler of Rhapta and the surrounding areas.
155 CE: Pausanias makes it to the mouth of the white Nile and names the lake he finds there Lake Pausanias, after himself.
156 CE: Pausanias and his expedition attempt an ill-fated climb of the Mountains of the Moon and perish. Pausanias's son, Attalus, does not return to Egypt but instead continues to rule in Rhapta.

Also, where do the Epanders in Erythrea (the titular duchy in East Africa) come from? Also, there is a couple of mentions of Alexandra I Archeserika being the mother of an 'Alexandros Epander', is she the husband of Epander IV or someone else? Are the Antipaters in India descended from the Antipatrid dynasty of Macedonia (now in Tyrus)?

When do the Epanders get the Empire of India back? Immediately after the end of the Gupta (in like 570ish)?

And why aren't the Gupta Hindu?

 

[futuregary]

Also, where do the Epanders in Erythrea (the titular duchy in East Africa) come from? Also, there is a couple of mentions of Alexandra I Archeserika being the mother of an 'Alexandros Epander', is she the husband of Epander IV or someone else? Are the Antipaters in India descended from the Antipatrid dynasty of Macedonia (now in Tyrus)?

When do the Epanders get the Empire of India back? Immediately after the end of the Gupta (in like 570ish)?

And why aren't the Gupta Hindu?

That is a very interesting timeline. Something like that, yeah, but I was thinking less hostile takeover, more mercantile buyout. It is a republic, after all. A Populist one at that.

The Indohellens in Erythrea are also Shay's intention. I don't have the timeline reference, but I remember a post where he said they would basically serve as competitors to the Zoroastrian Hindus in Hormuz. I would have made them a republic, but we've got a few republics down there already (Pwenet, Suqotra, and Aqaba isn't too far to the north). What do you guys think?

I didn't get that far in the timeline. With the Tripartate Struggle, I had what I needed to finish the map. Maybe it'll get finished later?

That... is a damn good question. My justification was "because they're deep in Buddha-land", but... it's the Guptas. Must've been overlooked; I was running on fumes near the end, actually didn't get any sleep the night before the release. I'll fix it tomorrow. The population probably won't change much, but the rulers themselves will.

 

[Martellus.]

That is a very interesting timeline. Something like that, yeah, but I was thinking less hostile takeover, more mercantile buyout. It is a republic, after all. A Populist one at that.

The Indohellens in Erythrea are also Shay's intention. I don't have the timeline reference, but I remember a post where he said they would basically serve as competitors to the Zoroastrian Hindus in Hormuz. I would have made them a republic, but we've got a few republics down there already (Pwenet, Suqotra, and Aqaba isn't too far to the north). What do you guys think?

I didn't get that far in the timeline. With the Tripartate Struggle, I had what I needed to finish the map. Maybe it'll get finished later?

That... is a damn good question. My justification was "because they're deep in Buddha-land", but... it's the Guptas. Must've been overlooked; I was running on fumes near the end, actually didn't get any sleep the night before the release. I'll fix it tomorrow. The population probably won't change much, but the rulers themselves will.

I kind of imagined some bastard prince running away from Gupta after he become emperor in 320 and heading to Erythrea. Making it a Republic would be weird unless we changed the dynasty.

Also, while we're on questions of dynasty and character location, the Aniketos's dynasty are descendants of Euthydemus, right? And Archeserika is China?

 

[ekorovin]

I haven't got a chance to look at a new map yep, so can someone tell me what's going on on Madagascar and in modern day Mozambique, please?

 

[futuregary]

I kind of imagined some bastard prince running away from Gupta after he become emperor in 320 and heading to Erythrea. Making it a Republic would be weird unless we changed the dynasty.

Also, while we're on questions of dynasty and character location, the Aniketos's dynasty are descendants of Euthydemus, right? And Archeserika is China?

Whoever he is, he is definitely not a Gupta. He came from one of the Indo-Hellenic kingdoms (my guess would be Sindhia), and it's probably for the same reason that Lucius got moved down to Somalia; the Indian Ocean was very important for trade in the ancient world, which is something many contemporary historians tend to overlook.

"Aniketos" is about as precise as "Louis" when discussing French monarchy :laugh: To which Aniketos are you referring?

Archeserika means China :laugh: But it works as a dynastic name, too, I suppose. Yeah, that's them.

I haven't got a chance to look at a new map yep, so can someone tell me what's going on on Madagascar and in modern day Mozambique, please?

Madagascar's Malagasy migrations were substituted by an Epanderian (Viet-Hellenic) expedition to establish colonies in Madagascar. The northern half is mostly Buddhist, while some Indo-Hellenic Confucians (as a result of Chinese influence) live in the south.

Mozambique (for these purposes, let's just call it the "southern East African coast") is mostly ruled by the Makonde. Slightly north, the Greek trade colony of Rhapta is competing with the Persian-influenced Republic of Mombasa (though that's more Kenya-Tanzania than Mozambique, but Rhapta usually pushes south or so my observes are telling me). To the south of the Makonde is the Kingdom of Zimbabwe and the Zulu, and to the west there is Niassa and Maravi.

 

[Martellus.]

Whoever he is, he is definitely not a Gupta. He came from one of the Indo-Hellenic kingdoms (my guess would be Sindhia), and it's probably for the same reason that Lucius got moved down to Somalia; the Indian Ocean was very important for trade in the ancient world, which is something many contemporary historians tend to overlook.

"Aniketos" is about as precise as "Louis" when discussing French monarchy :laugh: To which Aniketos are you referring?

Archeserika means China :laugh: But it works as a dynastic name, too, I suppose. Yeah, that's them.



Madagascar's Malagasy migrations were substituted by an Epanderian (Viet-Hellenic) expedition to establish colonies in Madagascar. The northern half is mostly Buddhist, while some Indo-Hellenic Confucians (as a result of Chinese influence) live in the south.

Mozambique (for these purposes, let's just call it the "southern East African coast") is mostly ruled by the Makonde. Slightly north, the Greek trade colony of Rhapta is competing with the Persian-influenced Republic of Mombasa (though that's more Kenya-Tanzania than Mozambique, but Rhapta usually pushes south or so my observes are telling me). To the south of the Makonde is the Kingdom of Zimbabwe and the Zulu, and to the west there is Niassa and Maravi.

Well, that's the thing: "Anitekos" (which is a misspelling of Aniketos, I think), is the ruling dynasty for Empire of Serinidia and I have no idea where they came from. I am talking about Demetrios I Aniketos (Euthydemid dynasty of Marakanda), who I guess founds his own dynasty?

And I was just wondering, since the Euthydemids/Aniketos seem to rule China.

 

[futuregary]

Well, that's the thing: "Anitekos" (which is a misspelling of Aniketos, I think), is the ruling dynasty for Empire of Serinidia and I have no idea where they came from. I am talking about Demetrios I Aniketos (Euthydemid dynasty of Marakanda), who I guess founds his own dynasty?

And I was just wondering, since the Euthydemids/Aniketos seem to rule China.

Oh that.

104 BCE: Alexandros II Aniketos of Marakanda establishes a vast empire in Central Asia, stretching across Serindia and the Tarim Basin. Tocharians and Sakae play an important role within his military organization.
100 BCE: Following peasant rebellions against Emperor Wu of Han, Alexandros II Aniketos of Serindia allies himself with Epander II of India to invade the frail Han Empire. Beginning of the legendary Katabasis of Alexandros II Aniketos to the Pacific.
98 BCE: Changan falls to Alexandros II Aniketos. The city is renamed Alexandria Tsangana.
96 BCE: End of the Katabasis of Alexandros II Aniketos as he reaches the Pacific Ocean. He weeps as he states, "There are no more worlds left to conquer." The city of Alexandria Eschate founded on the Pacific coast, at the mouth of the Yellow River.
68 BCE: Alexandros II Anitekos of Serindia passes away in Alexandria Ferghana. On his deathbed, he announces that his empire will be divided between his two children; his son Achilles is given the lands of Serindia, while his son Alexandros III is given Archeserika in the east.

Yeah, I suppose it would be the same dynasty. Unless you wanted to make him start his own.