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Map Modification: Italy

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Hive

Hive

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Since my Italy map is now more or less finished, I think it's time to start discussing values for the provinces - and I felt that would be a discussion deserving of it's own thread...

Here's the map:

post-25-1108747262.jpg


What we should determine is goods, terrain, manpower, tax value, city name, whether or not the province should have a port (if it's a coastal province) and culture.

Here's what I have so far:

Code: 
Name	Goods	Terrain	Manpower	Tax value	City name	Port	Culture
Piedmont	Wine	Mountain	?	?	Torino	No	Italian
Liguria	Wool	Mountain	?	?	Genoa	Yes	Italian
Lombardy	Cloth	Plains	?	?	Milan	No	Italian
Trent	?	?	?	?	Trent	No	?
Friuli	?	?	?	?	Udine?	No	Italian
Mantua	Grain	Plains	?	?	Mantua	No	Italian
Veneto	Cloth	Swamp	?	?	Venice	Yes	Italian
Ferrara	?	Plains	?	?	Ferrara	Yes	Italian
Emilia	Wine	Plains	?	?	Parma	No	Italian
Pisa	?	?	?	?	Pisa	Yes	Italian
Tuscany	Cloth	?	?	?	Florence	No	Italian
Siena	Cloth	Mountain	?	?	Siena	No	Italian
Romagna	Salt	?	?	?	Bologna	No	Italian
Marche	Grain	Plains	?	?	Ravenna	?	Italian
Lazio	Grain	Plains	?	?	Rome	?	Italian
Campania	Wine	?	?	?	Naples	?	Italian
Abruzzo	?	?	?	?	?	?	Italian
Apulia	Salt	Mountain	?	?	Taranto?	?	Italian
Calabria	?	?	?	?	?	?	Italian
Messina	Fish	Plains	?	?	Messina	Yes	Italian
Palermo	Wine	Plains	?	?	Palermo	Yes	Italian
Sardinia	Fish	Mountain	?	?	Cagliari	Yes	Italian
Corsica	Naval	Mountain	?	?	Bastia	Yes	Italian

Comments/suggestions?

EDIT: Sorry, but I don't know how to make the table look good... :eek:o
 
Well...i think the most provinces should get a port, but Pruli dont has so much coastal and therfore shouldnt get a port.
I think its quite important for the italian minors to get a port.

For the terrain: isnt the middle Italy just plains and the north just mountain? for the south i dont really know.
 
As for the geographical map, well, you should reconsider Abruzzo/Abruzzi and resize in the same length as Romagna. So putting a border where the first "Z" of Abruzzo is written and maybe putting the promontory (redrawing it) a little more southwards... Gargano promontory is indeed part of Apulia!

As for value, now to terrain (until now, the rest later in other posts):
Piedmont: plain if nice mountains and also forests is possible;
Lombardy: plains
Mantua: plains
Trent: a little difficult, IRL this is a valley (Adige river) in the Alps, but here could be mountains or forests, but if you intend to give it to Venice (talking about Brescia or Verona in other posts) it should be plains
Friuli: forests, if it represents the "outback" for Venice, it should give wood for her ships, otherwise mountains;
Veneto: swamps
Liguria: mountains
Emilia and Romagna: plains
Ferrara: swamps
Pisa, Tuscany, Siena, Marche and Abruzzi: mountains (Appennines)
Lazio, Apulia: plains
Campania: plains or mountains, if one wants to link Calabria to Liguria (this is like the Appennines really are!)
Calabria, Messina, Sardinia, Corsica: mountains
Palermo: mountains or plains

Last one, is there a link between Marche and Tuscany? if not, there should be one even if little!

P.S.: I wanted to post immediately, but the forum seemed to be down until today! :(
 
Last edited:
My suggestions:

ABOUT Economy, Capital cities,Ports...

Piedmont: wine Turin (no port)
Lombardy: cloth Milan (no port)
Mantua: grain or cloth Mantua (no port)
Trent: ... Trent (no port) ; if Brescia or Verona: cloth
Friuli: naval Udine (no port)
Veneto: fish or cloth Venice (port)
Liguria: fish Genua (port)
Emilia: grain Parma (no port)
Romagna: cloth or grain Bologna (no port)
Ferrara: salt Ferrara (port)
Marche: grain Ancona (port) or Urbino/Camerino/Fermo (no port)
Pisa: fish Pisa or Leghorn (port)
Tuscany: cloth Florence (no port)
Siena: wine or cloth Siena (no port)
Abruzzi: wool L'Aquila (no port)
Lazio: grain Rome (no port)
Campania: grain Naples (port)
Apulia: wine Bari (port) or Taranto (port)
Calabria: wool , Cosenza (no port) or Reggio (port)
Sardinia: wool Cagliari (port)
Palermo: fish Palermo (port)
Messina: salt Messina (port)

ABOUT Taxation and Manpower...

Top: Lombardy, Veneto, Mantua, Tuscany, Siena, Lazio, Campania, Palermo, Ferrara.
Poor: Sardinia, Calabria, Abruzzi, Corsica, Messina, Friuli.
Average: the others...

Culture: all province Italian, Trent: italian/german !? Nice: french
 
I don't know if this is to late, but can you give Emilia a toe that stretches to the sea? I don't want it to have a port, I just want to have a neutral body between Genoa & Pisa, so that they can't get at each overland but are rather forced to duke it out at sea. (also would prevent Florence from seizing Genoa quickly).

Also, that Marche-Tuscany-Siena-Romagna corner looks like it could cause problems.

On goods, Bordic's suggestions are good. I'd only consider giving Venice salt rather than fish (they were salt marshes after all).

Trent should probably be poor & possibly copper (if actually Trent and not Brescia/Verona.)

P.S. I would also give Emilia mountains. I know that's not perfect, but there should be mountains between Lombardy & Tuscany.
 
Bordic said:
Romagna: cloth or grain Bologna (no port)
Ferrara: salt Ferrara (port)
Marche: grain Ancona (port) or Urbino/Camerino/Fermo (no port)
Click to expand...

About capital cities and ports, a better revised solution would be:

Ferrara: Ferrara (no port) and Romagna: Ravenna (port) if Marche has not Ancona (port) as capital city, so the Papal States have only one harbour!

After all Urbino, Camerino and in some part also Fermo had beautiful Renaissance times... (Varano,Borgia and Frederick of Montefeltro)!
 
Can I suggest you to rename the next provinces:

Messina -> Noto
Palermo -> Mazzara
 
Bordic said:
About capital cities and ports, a better revised solution would be:

Ferrara: Ferrara (no port) and Romagna: Ravenna (port) if Marche has not Ancona (port) as capital city, so the Papal States have only one harbour!

After all Urbino, Camerino and in some part also Fermo had beautiful Renaissance times... (Varano,Borgia and Frederick of Montefeltro)!
Click to expand...

I'd prefer Ferrara having a port. That would (IMO) be reasonably accurate. (the Ferrarese port of Comacchio was rather important).

Re. Ancona vs. Urbino, etc., I don't think it's necessary that the underlying city coincide with a port city. Marche should have a port regardless of what the underlying city is called. (Besides, underlying city names can always be easily changed in mods; inserting a port is a bigger pain.).

P.S. -- I'd put Pescara, Atri or Termoli underlying the Abruzzi. (rather than Aquila).

P.P.S. - Leghorn is one Englishism too far :) Pisa should be in Pisa. If you're going to insist on Leghorn, at least call it Livorno.

P.P.P.S - Remember it's Genova or Genoa (not Genua!)

P.P.P.P.S. - I'd vote for Bari or Brindisi above Taranto in Apulia.
 
Abdul Goatherd said:
P.S. -- I'd put Pescara, Atri or Termoli underlying the Abruzzi. (rather than Aquila).

P.P.S. - Leghorn is one Englishism too far :) Pisa should be in Pisa. If you're going to insist on Leghorn, at least call it Livorno.

P.P.P.S - Remember it's Genova or Genoa (not Genua!)
Click to expand...

IMO L'Aquila is more representative, the city was founded by Frederick II of Svevia because from there a possible invasion from Pope or whoever was easily stopped... In facts there is today a Spanish Fortress (further Spanish domination) on the top of the city of L'Aquila!

Just for kidding: you write L'Aquila and not Aquila! :)
About the PS and PPS: well I don't know the correct English translation of those names, normally I write them in Italian...
is Genua written in German?
 
Bordic said:
IMO L'Aquila is more representative, the city was founded by Frederick II of Svevia because from there a possible invasion from Pope or whoever was easily stopped... In facts there is today a Spanish Fortress (further Spanish domination) on the top of the city of L'Aquila!
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Although precisely because it was so close to the Papal border is why I don't like it. One can say Aquila (sorry, l'Aquila :D ) is "really" in Umbria or Sabina, no? ;)

is Genua written in German?
Click to expand...

Yep.
 
Abdul Goatherd said:
One can say Aquila (sorry, l'Aquila :D ) is "really" in Umbria or Sabina, no? ;)
Click to expand...

AFAIK there is only one "L' Aquila" and it is the capital city of "Abruzzo" region, "Abruzzi" in the past! I don't remember why it is called "L'Aquila" instead of "Aquila", but it is so... :rolleyes:
I need to search a bit in Internet... ;)
 
Aquila or L'Aquila?

Well, I have given a look here and there in Internet and the city was called "Aquila degli Abruzzi" until 1939 , when during fascist era (with the royal decree 23 november 1939-XVIII, n. 1891) the name changed in "L'Aquila" ...:rolleyes:
Here is the law in Italian: http://www.provincia.laquila.it/regiodecreto.PDF

So AQUILA should be used! :eek:o

Well "Aquila" means "Eagle" and which name could be more appropriate for German Emperors like The Hoenstaufens? :D

And about the Spanish fortress I waas wrong:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/csulaquila/_sgt/m1m2s1_1.htm

not for outside enemies but for inside enemies of the Spaniards!
 
Last edited:
Txini said:
Can I suggest you to rename the next provinces:

Messina -> Noto
Palermo -> Mazzara
Click to expand...

You can suggest all you like, but you need to tell me why doing so would be a good idea. :p

I like a lot of the gioods/terrain suggestions, but not all of them...

City names seems to be a bit more difficult to agree on, eh? :D

I was thinking Trent for Trent. If I wanted Brescia there, I'd call the city Brescia. I plan on this province to be mountainous and part of Austrian Tirol.

I do intend Ferrara to have a port, and Pisa will definately be the capital of that province.

I'll consider the suggestion to give Emilia a strip of land at the sea, to block Pisa and Liguria from bordering... I'll try it and see how it looks.
 
Hive said:
You can suggest all you like, but you need to tell me why doing so would be a good idea. :p
Click to expand...

Remember that map of Sicily I posted for you in Western Europe Thread, there you have the map and that are the names of the 2 most important provinces of Sicily in fact Mazzara is exactly the zone you have as Palermo, and Noto is the southeastern part of the island and if I'm not wrong the title of Sicilian Heir :p
 
Txini said:
Remember that map of Sicily I posted for you in Western Europe Thread, there you have the map and that are the names of the 2 most important provinces of Sicily in fact Mazzara is exactly the zone you have as Palermo, and Noto is the southeastern part of the island and if I'm not wrong the title of Sicilian Heir :p
Click to expand...

Hmm, right... I forgot. Well ok then.
 
Well, not properly on Valleys but for sure on Valley names... But, it is Ok then!

As for Noto, I really don't know because Messina should be in "Demone" province or something named like this, if you use Noto the capital city must be Catania or Syracuse... :confused:
 
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