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A human China would be good in the late game of EU2, but wouldn't you feel a bit lonely in the early stages? But then again, when we move to EU2, perhaps we could get some other players and put them over in Asia. A Japan and an Indian nation, or better still a Timurid Empire (if anyone feels brave) would be good.
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No I wont feel lonely..;)

Of course I wouldn't like Japan being human for quite obvious reasons :rolleyes:, but if you insist on power balance in Far East, better he be someone good.

Timurid empire is a plain suicide - it starts next to Hungary, but while Hungary has high-manpower well developed provinces in the area, Timurids have mostly just-above colony level type provinces, most even lack L1 fortress.
But if you ask my vote - I would like Timurids and Sultanate of Delhi or that hindu country (Haidarabad or something, forgot) being humans - at least noone would roam over the area.

Of course, a human China can be quite nasty in Vicky, as I have every reason to know. We had best be carving up the dragon before it industrialises, gentlemen.:)
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Don't worry, I have yet to learn playing Victoria on MP level..:)

And Sterk - you better be there!
 
Slow session, big war = slow session.

I wish to ask cheech for forgiveness. I did not check my ICQ after the first rehost, and could not see your request. I humbly give you my sincerest apologies.
 
Trav, could you put up the latest save, please? I can make the map, if you like, but I need the save to plan my strategy for crushing Poland. :)
 
My ICQ is now completely non-functional : Every time I send a message, my modem dies. However, my AIM client does not have this problem. My AIM name is 'Rex Homini', which I'm sure you can all translate. :) So if you want to contact me, you can try to see if I'm online on AIM.
 
If i had your save, i'd post it over at my forum for ya... but Traveler doesn't give me your saves either...

Been following this game still, you can send my best wishes to Blackeye, his empire doesn't look too strong judging by the map. Hope he pulls through, so we can see some imperial purple on the vicky map in the future :cool:
 
By the way - have you discussed using extended maps in EU2? (I remember someone mentioning them but don't feel like scanning 1000+ posts right now.. :p )

I just took a look at this map and all I can say is 'Wow!'.

It adds so much more provinces in crucial areas of colonising, so that there will be less colonies grabbed when historical colonial powers are followed up by ahistorical ones (Hungary, Italy, Poland, Norway, KoJ, Byz).

Also, the added provinces make certain non-european nations 2-4 times stronger and give them more opportunities.
I have been looking for following nations being human when we continue into EU2:

Japan - it has 5 times(!!) more provinces, with less pop, so it can convert to christianity easy if it chooses so in the appropriate event.

Timurids - has little addition of provinces, but the placement of them and terrain in them as well as the added winter area in Afganistan seem to be a vast increase of strategic possibilities (though I think they will need some boost anyway).

Songhai - It is not weak as-is (on the vanilla map), now it has double the provinces and 4 times more to colonise (which it has plenty of time to do up to 16th century when first human conquistadors appear)

Oman - it is interesting because of 2 things - 2 CoTs and being Shiite (bonus morale + plenty of CBs), now it is even more interesting because there's no way one can become into Oman by land (by the map I posted), also the vastly increased colonisation/conquest options in East Africa and Madagascar seem like Heaven for early naval power what Oman is.

Other possible options and reasons why didn't I include them:
Ethiopia - exotic techgroup (will check this tho to be 100% sure), otherwise could be interesting.

Indian muslims - once Timur becomes Mughal, they will be out of place there

Indian hindus - generally could try as one of the largest hindus, Vyjanagar or Hyderabad, but they have no inherent strenght (Oman - CoTs, shiite, Songhai - gold and defensive advantage, Japan - fully naval, Timurids - simply big) or reason why they would be interesting to play (Oman - small nation, great opportunities, militarily tough, Songhai - great opportunities, fun in making backyard into powerhouse, Timur - good opportunities, Japan - can you beat The Dragon?) nor there are balance needs for them (Timurids->Mughals are gonna make enough balance in India if player is good enough plus they're needed to check European drive into India, Japan is for inhibiting China, Songhai for disabling Europeans African land grab, Oman for the same, plus weighing out European power in Indian ocean and Arabian peninsula).

South Africans, Americans, other minors of the World (Indochina, Indian minors, Indonesia) - they're too weak,

Mongol successor states - they're weak and would do best if allied with Timur to for a buffer zone versus expansion in Siberia.


I can already predict an unholy alliance between Oman and Timurid, just to hold mighty Hungary at bay..:)
 
You forgotten China, they too would be playable I guess.
 
That's already taken!:p
 
binTravkin said:
That's already taken!:p
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Ah....now I get it...you're showing that we can squeeze more playernations into this game but making things clear that certain nations is playable.
 
Ah....now I get it...you're showing that we can squeeze more playernations into this game but making things clear that certain nations is playable.
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Is anything wrong about it?:confused:

I was just proposing anyways, if it's considered not good, you can throw it into trashcan.

EDIT: of course ALL nations are playable and can even be made somewhat balanced by proper beefing up, but there are certain nations which are already powerful enough to not require a major boost (plus extended maps make them even more viable) and on the same time are either interesting to play (I find myself the Oman combination of 2 CoTs + shiite interesting, as well as Songhai making an African empire, same for naval superpower Japan and harshly positioned, but good fortune Timurids) or good for balance reasons or even both of them.

The European nations are powerful as they are and with this pre-history of CK they will be going like BOOM upon entering EU2 conquering all they see and trying to collect all the maps available on Earth, therefore if we're going to have any non-european powers, they should be given enough strenght and good position to try to check this expansion.

I aswell admit that it might be against interests of that or that player of European nation as Songhai is certainly against Spain's, Oman, Japan and China could be against Spain's, England's, Burgundy's, Hungary's, KoJ's and probably even more, Timur would be against Hungary's, but I do think that it would certainly be more interesting if not all the land was settled at the end of 17th century and there would be more players involved.
 
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I like more human players too. It will hinder the Europeans to "go boom" and expand. Either way...it would be liable to beef up the non-europeans a bit, perhaps?
 
Well, there are following ways of beefing I can think of:
- Adding money
- Adding cores/CBs
- Reforming DP to intended by X points
- Adding better monarchs
- Adding better leaders
- Adding known provinces
- Adding country cultures
- Adding tech
- Modifying techgroup
- Adding pre-set intended alliances/good relations/military access/guarantees/etc.
- Adding provinces from other nation or outright annexing it without having cores

I would give thumbs up to:
- Adding money
- Adding better monarchs
- Adding better leaders (with random leaders this is gonna happen anyway)
- Adding known provinces (e.g. several nations don't know their bordering provinces which I find unrealistic)
- Adding pre-set intended alliances/good relations/military access/guarantees/etc.
because most of them do not change the 'character' or 'nature' of a nation.

I would give limited support to:
- Adding tech
- Adding country cultures
because these already do change the nation, however country like Timurids needs some additional cultures badly (at least until they don't turn into Mughals, who have plenty).
Basically it wouldn't disturb the game fun for me if the cultures where added to nations which already have those cultures in borders their realm.

I have limited dislike on these changes:
- Adding cores/CBs
- Reforming DP to intended by X points
because if one for example sets Serfdom, Land, Quantity, Offensive to max, he get's infantry which costs 1d per unit and is not worse than that of other countries' (which costs 8-20d) in any way, plus can be manufactured in big amounts due to manpower boost from quantity (and cheapness of course), which is not the same faction anymore.
Change by up to 5-8 points could be considered though.

But I would go strongly against these:
- Modifying techgroup
- Adding provinces from other nation or outright annexing it without having cores
as those would make the nation into something it is not, something very different.

Your thoughts?

EDIT: slightly edited - typos and double-texting.. :)
 
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Changing the map cannot, to the best of my knowledge, be done in the official converter. It is possible in my converter, but a hella lot of work. It requires the following :

  • A list of which CK provinces correspond to which EU provinces
  • A list of which EU provinces will go protestant or reformed when the time comes
  • A list of what region the EU provinces fall into
  • A list of the base population for each region
  • A list of where COTs can show up
  • A list of which provinces have shiite religion instead of sunni (actually, this is optional and kinda unimportant since the whole CK map is catholic by now)
  • A list of which provinces should have a non-default culture : For example, all 'moslem' culture from CK converts to arabic, but some should be berber instead - again this is optional if you want to make arabic even more uber than it usually is
  • A list of which provinces are known to all European nations, and an optional file describing extra provinces known only to certain nations - Greenland for Norway, for example
  • Finally, a list of COTs and a scenario file describing the rest of the world.

Not impossible, by any means, but not a one-man job. :)
 
1. is tedious, but I can help you with it, a couple of evenings on ICQ sorting it out and we're done
2. comes with the map
3. if you mean CK region, shouldn't be too hard, we just need to compare old province.csv of EU2 with new and extract the changes properly, another few evenings..:)
4. comes with the map
5. comes with the map as CoT value and can easily be extracted with MS Excel or compatible
6. comes with the map
7. shouldn't be very hard to extract, another few evnings
8. probably the easiest from the ones we actually need to do something with
9. comes with the map (you can choose either AGCEEP GC or Kasperus GC)

By the end of spring when we finish MTT CK era, I should be having more time and can help. Other volunteers?
 
binTravkin said:
By the end of spring when we finish MTT CK era, I should be having more time and can help. Other volunteers?
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I am offering my services. Although it might get thight with time between school and fcz, I will do my best to help.
 
I believe I did bring up MyMap, but as I do not have the time to do it myself (I can help bin, however), I let it drop. However, while we are on the topic of conversion, I'd like to bring up resources. As I see it, there are three options we can go with.

1-Randomized Goods for the entire world
2-Randomized Goods for ROTW (everything outside Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East, basically whatever isn't represented in CK)
3-Standard Goods

In my opinion, we should go with #1, though #2 would be alright. #1 allows for a lot of wars over different provinces, making for a unique experience. It also means that certain regions will not be able to be taken in CK by those who know more about the resources of those provinces. Furthermore, both #1 and #2 provide balance and a feeling of a different experience as they change where colonies would normally be placed. This means Spain will not instantly head for Mexico, because there might not be gold there, it could be anywhere. In history, did Spain have any idea where gold was during their first explorations? No, not until Pizarro and Cortez already encountered the Incan and Aztec civilizations.

With many resource generators you can set parameters, like what general region goods might be in or how many of each type of goods there might be in large areas (to ensure that there are only 3 or 4 gold mines in Europe and to prevent tea and cotton being in Europe).

So, any comments?
 
Well, if we use MyMAP, I'd rather go with option 3, because noone will be able to determine which provinces in CK he needs to get 'proper' goods in EU2 (as the conversion scheme still needs to be determined).
I dislike the randomisation idea because some nations would then lose part pf their characteristics, but if majority votes for randomisation I won't protest, it's not a big problem.

I just played my first game on MyMAP AGCEEP. It's amazing!
The added provinces + all the events = really good gameplay.
Non-european nations have also been made a lot stronger with addition of those provinces.
Timurids for example are a major power dominating Persia, Mesopotamia, Caucasus and Indie (though they're likely to break up by some point with a help of an event).
 
Randomised provinces presumably work on province.csv, right? I believe this will still work with my converter, but I would certainly hope we would test it first. Also, it's worth noting that the AGCEEP could get you in trouble if the converter makes random leaders. (Right now it doesn't, but I believe someone in this thread requested it. :) ) And then there are the monarchs. So in short, it would be good to test things before we get too ambitious. :)
 
I would vote for random goods for the world...yes I know it would perhaps create odd situations in Europe, but the gains are more important, as I would not storm to mexico. Did the spainiards do that? No. They just explored and happened to stumble accross gold. That is why I would want either #1 or #2 of Sterkarms suggestions.
 
Hey, we could create some kind of randomisation mechanismus which would take into account areas of randomisation, for example:

Africa:
possible resources:
Slaves
Ivory
Gold
Grain
Fish
Chinaware
and probably some more

Europe:
all, but following:
Chinaware
Ivory
Slaves
Tea
Sugar
Cotton
Tobacco

etc.

That way, while the randomisation would still be in effect, it will be somewhat historical (you will be sure that somewhere in America there is gold, but where and how much you'd never know), also Island won't be producing Ivory..:)
 
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