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unmerged(16277)

First Lieutenant
Apr 16, 2003
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PLaying this mod for the first time. Feedback.

Did the various fixed found in the bug thread on this page, then dived into a game as Austria-Hungary.

I still received a solid amount of database mismatches, as well as bugs about the american events.

As soon as the game starts I received a bunch of popups. One was simply called evt_1005r_name

I also received popups about the declaration of war, the german blank cheque, and the assasisation of the heir to the throne. Unfortunately, they popped up immediately, so you had to read the last one first. Kinda confusing. Also, shouldnt the assasination happen at the historical date rather than january 1 ?

In any event, the result was that Italy, Germany and Austria-Hungary was at war with serbia, france and russia.


Looking over the setup of my empire, I found the following things: (yes, most have been mentioned before, but I thought I;dd include them for sake of completeness)

There are no austrian ministers, though the leaders for the army were there. Confusingly though, the leaders without pictures do not appear with the question mark icon, but with a blank face, like the "assigned" skill 0 commanders.

No resources at all, only 10 manpower, and no technologies at all.

For some reason I had a single recon plane unit with a naval bombing rating of 7 ( ! )


I proceeded to assault serbia and send troops to the russian borders, launching some attacks. To my joy, I found out that battles are very long winded. Often lasting as much as a month and resulting in troops being worn down quickly. Unfortunately, the game doesnt reflect the massive casualties occuring as rapidly as they did in real life, but the end result is fine i think. Of course, it will still need to be tested with more tech's on each side, to see how the game copes then.

I also noticed that Serbia has no victory points at all. is this intentional ? I would have imagined at elast the capital and possible one of the hard to reach provinces should be VP worthy so Austria can win the war somehow.


The germans dont seem to have been doing an awful lot yet. We'll see how it goes. I saved the game at feb 30th.


More will follow as I play further.
 
played further untill the 24th of March. Serbia was finally annexed, and ground is gained in Russia. The germans are also attacking, but only very limitedly. The western front is utterly immobile, no wars, no battles, nothing.

Ran out of manpower, putting an effective end to my expansionist visions for now. Guess I;ll have to dig in and wait it out for a while.


The game doesnt crash on the victory point exit screen, though all 3 factions are listed as 0 victory points ;)
 
evt_1005r_name is from a random event. It is Great Military Parade held in Capital.

Somehow the name must have been left out of the text.csv file.

Steele
 
Steele said:
evt_1005r_name is from a random event. It is Great Military Parade held in Capital.

Somehow the name must have been left out of the text.csv file.

Steele

I think we should take out the random events. :)

weasel fierce said:
Didnt seem like Britain did much of anything to aid their allies

It doesn't have an AI :)
 
Steele said:
Are you sure about that, Allenby? I always liked the random events.

Steele

If people want them in, then I suppose they ought to stay, but one event in particular - the coup d'etat - should be hashed out so that they don't undermine the revolution events that I scripted.
 
Allenby: That's fair enough.
Stephen: Since the random events are the same as the original HoI, I'll run through and put them back in.

Steele
 
I also had a "Major worker's strike" event without any text. I agree that random event should be removed.
 
After a first look some notes and queries

Some notes and queries:

1. Shouldn't the Harwich Force start at Sheffield rather than what is apparently Dover? I do wish Paradox had separated these two very important harbour commands rather than bunching them together and foregoing Dover command.
2. Prewar there shouldn't actually be a Harwich Force. Perhaps this can be created at wartime by a trigger. It only needs one sub-unit to work right? Just give it a DD Flotilla w/c can represent destroyers deployed there for mercantile protection.
3. Gibraltar and Malta have no fortifications? What gives? Neither has a substantial garrison either whereas historically they had both several battalions of Royal Garrison Artillery manning heavy fortress guns plus battalions of elite Royal Engineers plus regular infantry.
4. Southern English Coast has no coastal fortifications? At least Dover should have some protection, not just Dover Castle but it was fortified against contemporary assault.
5. Naval Bombers classed as 'Reconnaissance' should be properly termed 'Scouts'
6. Can Quessant be converted to the Channel Islands? Not really important but it did have a strong garrison including RGA siege guns and a brigade of infantry.
7. Gibraltar, Malta, the Channel Islands (if included) are prestige locations and should be assigned victory point values. Gibraltar and the Channel Islands are practically 'British soil' and capturing them would be discomfiting to say the least.
8. Could a first level cavalry unit be called Cavalry Brigades? I think it's more logical that most armies, particularly at peacetime (except for the French and Germans and Russians) would only have brigade size cavalry units, the rationale being cavalry is meant for mobility, patrol and internal security and must be able to cover plenty of ground thus they would be subdivided into brigades and spread out over an area rather than being grouped together as a shock unit (division). Also, lower tech nations which do raise cavalry would probably not be able to raise divisional size units aplenty but brigades would be just the right scale. Naturally they would have less striking power than divisions, perhaps a third of divisional stats? Thus three would naturally be as strong as a full division.
9. Why are the new dominions of Canada, Australia and New Zealand not represented as individual nation states as in HoI? Their ties to Britain at this time were not as closely knit as the recently conquered South-Africa or India, which since the Sepoy Rebellion had been administered directly by the Crown.
10. Gas and Anti-Aircraft Artillery were not available at the start of the war but a gas brigade (ex-AA Brigade) is available as an attachment. If it's not ready, why build it? Inasmuch as most of these were corps level units that were attached to brigades as needed would it not be better to term this particular brigade 'HQ Troops' and as Gas/AA is researched they would add substantial attack/defense values to the unit? At the start they could provide a leadership bonus abstracted perhaps as a boost to unit Organization. As the war and research progresses the values for Gas attacks or AA Defense would modify the original values.
11. Naval Minefields - One of the main reasons why places like Heligoland Bight, the Straits of Dover, the Baltic, the Dardanelles Straits and the Adriatic were greatly to be feared was the use of naval mines, particularly in these enclosed waterways with little room for maneuver. Would it be possible for Naval Minelaying Events to be programmed for all great naval powers with a choice to Mine A location, Mine B location, Don't lay any mines? Mines could be simulated by reducing the infrastructure level of these places drastically (I'm assuming that the infrastructure level of the oceans has been raised so that ships don't lose too much organization by merely sailing as per the old thread FIXING NAVAL COMBAT).
12. Population Control - I think one important thing to remember here is that unlike lets say Victoria, HoI and games like the EU series present manpower separate from industrial power. What I mean is Industry does not need manpower to operate (am I right about this?) in HoI, thus the manpower level at the top of the screen represents manpower available as military cannon fodder or conscriptable manpower if you will.
What does this mean for our scenario 1914? A great deal I think. For instance Britain despite her huge size should have very little conscriptable manpower. Most would be busy in factories or plantations and only so many would be available for new units which would later force her to rely on either the New Army and Territorial events or Conscription.
France would have a relatively large manpower pool which would eventually dry up in a several year world war of historic intensity. However the continental powers would have no qualms about conscription. Britain's all-volunteer force should enjoy something of an elite status (well deserved I might add) with the Boer war experience as a plus but they pay for it by low conscriptable manpower.
Perhaps the only nations without manpower problems would be Russia and China but perhaps events can be scripted to the effect that as Russia's problems increase they will have less conscriptable manpower available as more people join the revolutionary cells.
13. Other Possible Flashpoints - Again this is probably patches in the future but I was thinking of what-ifs for other possible flashpoints that players can explore as well as following the historic paths. I don't think that we need to 'force' war in 1915 if at all possible though we can 'encourage' it. Another option would be for the arms race to continue until one or the other side decided to start the show with any of the following as an excuse.

War in the Balkans between minors (the obvious little war)
This is covered in 1915 War I think.
Quick War Austria vs Serbia as a result of Assasination/Botched Assasination
If Germany doesn't let the war expand and puts diplomatic pressure
on Cousin Nicky not to get involved it could all end nicely and quickly (or not).
Nice 'limited war' potential.
Sick Man No Longer
Lets say there is no war in Aug 1914. Turkey still gets Osman and
Reshadieh from Britain no hassle and orders and gets another BB plus
maybe one from Germany, a battlecruiser like Goeben or Von der Tann
or maybe just the Bluecher. This gives her three or four modern
dreadnoughts with which to threaten either Greece or Russia.
Start off with a cold war where Turkey threatens Greece militarily
or perhaps threatens Russia economically by promising to close the
Dardanelles unless certain concessions are made (blackmail).
her three dreadnoughts.
War in the ABC Countries (Argentina, Brazil, Chile)
The faltering economies of the ABC countries can lead to squalor
or war as one or the other country tries to raise faltering prestige
and sinking economy by military victory. The Great Powers play the
benevolent patrons, sending everything short of direct military aid
but risking greater involvement. Something like a Spanish Civil War in 1914-1915.
War for Oil
As Oil Fired Turbines, Gasoline powered aircraft and automobiles
become the wave of the future the value of such oil producers as
the gulf states, Mesopotamia, Brunei, Texas etc. many of which are
controlled by the Ottoman empire (which may suddenly find itself in
an economic boom as a result, meaning more ships, more techs!) can
result in either a war for direct control of that oil between Britain
and Turkey (lets say that Britain's doing it to prevent the Germans or
Turks from controlling it - if Germany and the Ottomans get too close
this may happen!) or Russia and Turkey as Russia sees a way to rule
the world economically by taking the mid-east oil (okay it sounds a
little like Tom Clancy but...) and Britain coming to Turkey's defense
in her traditional role, egged on by the muslims of India and Africa.
The Great Game
Between the Russian Bear and the British Lion for the Indian subcontinent
turns deadly as Russian troops invade Afghanistan or vice-versa (a pro-Russian
Afghanistan with Russian 'military advisors' doesn't look too good to Britain
so they send in the troops!) Possible build up to this with events to determine
Japanese support (or non-cooperation with possible repercussions) as well as
where France and Germany stand (do they even care, do they fight their own
war in Europe, do they stab England in the back while she's busy? Does France
or perhaps even Germany come to Russia's aid eh Cousin Willy?)
What Napoleon Could Not Do
An international incident distances or breaks the Entente between England and
France. As both spiral away from each other sporadic fighting breaks out between
their colonies. A non-aggression pact with Germany covers the French on the
continent (the Germans want to see Britain taken down a notch or two anyway)
which are then free to attempt a Sealion of their own. Also called the
everyone gang up on the big-guy scenario.
Murdering Monroe
An interesting scenario could be British intervention in a war between the
ABC powers of South America which could see Argentina trying to take
back the Falklands after having won the war and feeling pretty good about
herself. Convinced that the Monroe Doctrine will protect her from British
retaliation she attacks the Falklands but of course the British retaliate.
What do the Americans do about this?
The Dying Dragon
What if Japan or one of the great powers attempts to assert itself in China?
Will the western powers, even Britain, stand by and let Japan take over their
cash cow? Germany, already supplying ships and techs to the Chinese may find
ample opportunity for expanding their eastern empire.
Pacific Intrigues
Germany, with Spanish support, intrigues with rebel leaders in Cuba and the
Philippines against the United States. Spain gets Cuba, Germany gets the
Philippines, to which it has relatively close historic ties - did not its
most revered national hero, Dr.Rizal, study at Heidelburg? And anyway,
after all America is just a third rate power, right?
This scenario could see plenty of high seas action for us naval fanatics
with great potential as a 'limited war' - possibly America tries to enlist
British support (but I doubt that they would jump, after all it doesn't
concern them, why should they leave their 'splendid isolation'? If it weakens
ambitious Germany, rotting Spain and upstart America, so much the better)
The Third Boer War
Agent provocateurs have been meeting with Boer malcontents and tensions soon
run high between the Boer Independents and the British and their Boer sympathizers
(Botha and Smuts I would think). Who's doing it, France or Germany? Civil War
breaks out and regular troops are called for. This is somebody's chance - but whose??
The Rise of the Portuguese Empire
In the aftermath of a devastating war (i.e. after any of these scenarios
or even the historic one) the tiny maritime power of Portugal (provided
she HAS built up her maritime power - she's an ancient ally of Britain
and they might help her there - perhaps as a counterweight to Spain in the
PACIFIC INTRIGUES scenario) sees her chance for a place in the sun. Already
occupying parts of southern Africa as well as Goa she may well want to attempt
to pick up the pieces of shattered empires (Germany or maybe even England?)
The Successor to Bismarck
A hypothetical powerful young Prussian statesman gains power and influence in
Germany and immediately launches a series of brilliant diplomatic maneuvers
that can potentially win over Russia, Turkey, the ABCs probably even the USA.
More diplomatic maneuvering here as Germany's rivals, Britain and France,
try to contain the encircling German alliance. Basically what if Bismarck
had been around in 1914.

What I'm proposing though this really should be last priority, is rather than a world war, we could have a bunch of little wars, cold wars with the potential to erupt in a hot war. After the 1914 triggers to start the historic war and the trigger
to start the 1915 war, perhaps by mid 1915 and onwards these could be possible and maybe we could have little events firing off in 1914 that would lead to conditions for some of them, like the war in South America (w/c prevents them from joining either side in a World War not to mention they DO want their battleships and will be very put out if they don't get them!) the Pacific or India (which could shatter the Anglo-French-Russian entente!).

Call me crazy but after playing that mind-opening Italy vs Russia trying to get the West on my side I thought that there should be other viable options. I mean would you play Italy or Germany in 1939 knowing that there's a great chance that you'll just lose in the end? Also I think that part of the fun is uncertainty - the way things stand there's very little chance of backstabbing your alliance members and things should fall into place the way they did but I don't think it should be so simple. There should be those risks and in the end each nation is in it for itself. Adding possibilities like this brings back that uncertainty - oh sure the French are our allies but what about that French speaking missionary captured near Blomfontein after the uprising? Things like that.

Aside from pitting historic friends against each other, I think these would provide a more open arena for testing out theories and using technologies than was historically possible. I mean, during WW1 the only naval actions where the Cruiser types really fulfilled their purposes were Adm Von Spee and Capt Muller's escapades. With these historic alternatives, particularly a Russia-France vs Anglo-Japan (The Great Game) or a Germany-Spain vs United States (Pacific Intrigues) or even maybe a US vs UK match up (Murdering Monroe) I think we would see plenty of cruiser warfare, more varied action by battlecruisers as they hunt down enemy raiders or protect convoy routes and some interesting fleet actions.

Ultimately these are only suggestions for possible hypothetical conflict starters. By all means lets get the historic conflict done first. I just wanted to put these down before I forgot them!!

Best regards,
Richmond
 
Richmond516 said:
Some notes and queries:

1. Shouldn't the Harwich Force start at Sheffield rather than what is apparently Dover? I do wish Paradox had separated these two very important harbour commands rather than bunching them together and foregoing Dover command.

We have the Grand Fleet in January 1914, but thats wasn't put together until August - naval units have been put in the OOB according to how they were arranged for most of the war. This will probably change when we do an August 1914 scenario (maybe?)

Richmond516 said:
3. Gibraltar and Malta have no fortifications? What gives? Neither has a substantial garrison either whereas historically they had both several battalions of Royal Garrison Artillery manning heavy fortress guns plus battalions of elite Royal Engineers plus regular infantry.

Gibraltar has fort rating 1. Malta, as far as I understand, was not as prominent in terms of its defences.

Richmond516 said:
4. Southern English Coast has no coastal fortifications? At least Dover should have some protection, not just Dover Castle but it was fortified against contemporary assault.

I don't know if Dover Castle can compare with Liege or Vaux ;)

Richmond516 said:
5. Naval Bombers classed as 'Reconnaissance' should be properly termed 'Scouts'

Scouts are included, nonetheless

Richmond516 said:
6. Can Quessant be converted to the Channel Islands? Not really important but it did have a strong garrison including RGA siege guns and a brigade of infantry.

No. The Channel Islands aren't on the tip of Brittany, the islands are French in the game for a reason....they're French. :)

Richmond516 said:
7. Gibraltar, Malta, the Channel Islands (if included) are prestige locations and should be assigned victory point values. Gibraltar and the Channel Islands are practically 'British soil' and capturing them would be discomfiting to say the least.

Nonexistance of VPs in the first version is a standard for the first version. Check the VPs thread for a listing of what will be in the next version.

Richmond516 said:
8. Could a first level cavalry unit be called Cavalry Brigades? I think it's more logical that most armies, particularly at peacetime (except for the French and Germans and Russians) would only have brigade size cavalry units, the rationale being cavalry is meant for mobility, patrol and internal security and must be able to cover plenty of ground thus they would be subdivided into brigades and spread out over an area rather than being grouped together as a shock unit (division). Also, lower tech nations which do raise cavalry would probably not be able to raise divisional size units aplenty but brigades would be just the right scale. Naturally they would have less striking power than divisions, perhaps a third of divisional stats? Thus three would naturally be as strong as a full division.

Cavalry in brigade size was largely an Eastern Front phenomena - cavalry operating in divisional size seemed more common in my opinion. Britain had a cavalry division and then a corps, General Soldat commanded a French cavalry corps, and General Chauvel later commanded a cavalry corps in Palestine. Divisions are also the basic building blocks of construction in the standard HOI, and I don't see why that should change for TGW. (Admittedly, tanks are something of an exception)

Richmond516 said:
9. Why are the new dominions of Canada, Australia and New Zealand not represented as individual nation states as in HoI? Their ties to Britain at this time were not as closely knit as the recently conquered South-Africa or India, which since the Sepoy Rebellion had been administered directly by the Crown.

The Dominions' foreign policy was largely directed from Whitehall, and the patriotic 'British' feeling that was displayed by the Dominions in 1914 suggests a greater deal of unity and a shared national identity than there was in 1939.

Richmond516 said:
10. Gas and Anti-Aircraft Artillery were not available at the start of the war but a gas brigade (ex-AA Brigade) is available as an attachment. If it's not ready, why build it? Inasmuch as most of these were corps level units that were attached to brigades as needed would it not be better to term this particular brigade 'HQ Troops' and as Gas/AA is researched they would add substantial attack/defense values to the unit? At the start they could provide a leadership bonus abstracted perhaps as a boost to unit Organization. As the war and research progresses the values for Gas attacks or AA Defense would modify the original values.

This shall probably change, anyway :)

Richmond516 said:
11. Naval Minefields - One of the main reasons why places like Heligoland Bight, the Straits of Dover, the Baltic, the Dardanelles Straits and the Adriatic were greatly to be feared was the use of naval mines, particularly in these enclosed waterways with little room for maneuver. Would it be possible for Naval Minelaying Events to be programmed for all great naval powers with a choice to Mine A location, Mine B location, Don't lay any mines? Mines could be simulated by reducing the infrastructure level of these places drastically (I'm assuming that the infrastructure level of the oceans has been raised so that ships don't lose too much organization by merely sailing as per the old thread FIXING NAVAL COMBAT).

It seems a bit drastic to have mine laying by event - these sorts of things should be left to tech advances, and therefore, to the ebb and flow of the game.

Richmond516 said:
12. Population Control - I think one important thing to remember here is that unlike lets say Victoria, HoI and games like the EU series present manpower separate from industrial power. What I mean is Industry does not need manpower to operate (am I right about this?) in HoI, thus the manpower level at the top of the screen represents manpower available as military cannon fodder or conscriptable manpower if you will.
What does this mean for our scenario 1914? A great deal I think. For instance Britain despite her huge size should have very little conscriptable manpower. Most would be busy in factories or plantations and only so many would be available for new units which would later force her to rely on either the New Army and Territorial events or Conscription.
France would have a relatively large manpower pool which would eventually dry up in a several year world war of historic intensity. However the continental powers would have no qualms about conscription. Britain's all-volunteer force should enjoy something of an elite status (well deserved I might add) with the Boer war experience as a plus but they pay for it by low conscriptable manpower.
Perhaps the only nations without manpower problems would be Russia and China but perhaps events can be scripted to the effect that as Russia's problems increase they will have less conscriptable manpower available as more people join the revolutionary cells.

Populations have been calculated already - we'll see how they react in the next version. Britain for example starts off with no Manpower whatsoever, so its difficult to create new divisions before war begins.

Richmond516 said:
13. Other Possible Flashpoints - Again this is probably patches in the future but I was thinking of what-ifs for other possible flashpoints that players can explore as well as following the historic paths. I don't think that we need to 'force' war in 1915 if at all possible though we can 'encourage' it. Another option would be for the arms race to continue until one or the other side decided to start the show with any of the following as an excuse.

I think a war does have to be forced in 1915, because a war has to be forced anyway. We might as well have it in 1915 as opposed to 1916, so that two years of a ten year game aren't wasted.
 
Richmond516 said:
BTW what news of the game crashes/refusing to start? I really think it might be the patcher for the date.

I personally haven't had any difficulty with TGW not starting, so I wouldn't be able to assess your problem...
 
I am also trying this mod and i have noticed a few strange behaviours. playing with version 1.01b and did all the fixes for uber germany.

I have also a lot of bugs about american events. Don't have any Autrian-Hingary Leaders or ministers. CTD when trying to built airplanes at the begining or scroling one of the air techs.

In one game as A-H, Russia dropped the alliance with France and the war started only against the western powers, france and england.

The lone germman division in Douala at the begining of the game is dying of hunger, since the province as no infrastructure capable of supporting armys.

In my last game as germany i noticed that by August 1914, alot of countrys have built an airforce ( Russia 8 Figh.; A-H; Brazil; etc ). How could they so soon? They couldn't had the time to research the techs and built those fighters. Is this an Bug? or a Feature?

I will be playing and testing this mod further and any strangeness i encounter will be reported here.

Good Job with this mod. It's great!!!