I checked it out and they ended up not altering that file and are just leaving it to another mod.
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I checked it out and they ended up not altering that file and are just leaving it to another mod.
I hadn't even noticed you had ported over a lot of the HIP setup and bookmarks to Vanilla CK3, Mechl.
It looks pretty good
It looks pretty good
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I humbly suggest you work together to give us HIP 2I hadn't even noticed you had ported over a lot of the HIP setup and bookmarks to Vanilla CK3, Mechl.
It looks pretty good
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I hadn't even noticed you had ported over a lot of the HIP setup and bookmarks to Vanilla CK3, Mechl.
It looks pretty good
Yea I figured it was a good way to enjoy the setup of SWMH for a bit until you have your new and improved version done for CK3. I'm sure you'll be re-doing everything anyway or adding things to your setup but obviously there's no issues with taking files from this to save you time later. At the very least it resolves a lot of the duplicate and other character file related issues the vanilla games files have.
It can be called HIP II: HIP, HIP, HOORAY!I humbly suggest you work together to give us HIP 2
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I do have them set yes though the dates I chose were completely arbitrary.
Awesome mod just a remark or two if you do not mind: Troyes should be he capital of Champagne, not Châtillon. Same in Brittany, should not be Vannes but Nantes instead and Rouen should be capital of Normandy (second largest city in the whole of France!). Other stuff, Hesdin was the residence of the counts d'Artois, Arras and Béthune were just wealthy cities under their rule. Alas, vanilla got nearly everything wrong but thanks to people like you the game is playable at last.
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Went ahead and put all those changes in since things like that are real easy to do. The only one I didn't do was put Hesdin in Artois mostly since then Saint-Pol would be a barony county. Course it'd be no issue if I were to just add another barony but that area is already pretty full of baronies that are pretty small. Let me know about any other changes that should be done.
Small counties are OK, they had a lot of flavour. For example, you can simulate the ecclesiastical peers of France and give them just 1 barony. Besides the Duke-Archbishops of Reims and the Duke-Bishop of Langres, you can create 1 baronies county/duchy for the Duke-Bishop of Noyon and 1 barony counties for the Count-Bishops of Beauvais, Laon and Châlons. Also the principality of Orange next to Comtat Venaissin. There are lots of nice maps on the net showing all those little details that i find really nice in game. Same idea for the free cities of the HRE.
The issue is less flavor and more gameplay that a bunch of tiny baronies make it harder to click and it also hurts the strategic aspect or the fact that if I were to, for example, add 20 more little baronies to France you end up with the situation where going 90 miles across France takes just as long as going 800 miles across Tibet. In the end I like the idea of things being more historical to a certain point but am big on the idea of gameplay coming first.
I mean I'll likely still had more baronies around when the first DLC comes out but I'll definitely be picky on how many I add. My general philosophy is that every county should have at least 3 baronies with duchy capitals being 4-5 depending on importance and only capitals of entire regions being 5-6 baronies and never more than 6. Exceptions to this are small islands that may be marked as a county which obviously can't be broken up like Malta.
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I'm the guy who messaged you on Steam for some suggestions I had for a particular character start. Byzantium, 1124, Ioannes II.
First off, the man himself. He has one scripted trait, zealous, and his other two traits and education are randomized. I would suggest the randomized traits be replaced with forgiving and brave. Zealous is fine, as he was known for his deep religious convictions and persecuting Paulician and Bogomil heretics. Forgiving is absolutely essential to his character too; he has been dubbed the "Byzantine Marcus Aurelius" because he was reputed to have never had anyone tortured or mutilated. He also forgave his sister, Anna Komnene, and her husband Alexios Bryennios for plotting to overthrow him (albeit with Anna being unofficially banished to a monastery). He should be brave too, as he frequently led his armies in combat, receiving a wound in the Battle of Beroia and personally operating siege equipment at the Siege of Shaizar, in which he is praised by both Latin and Muslim sources for his personal courage.
In a similar fashion to brave, above, his education should be fixed at tier 3 military (he was good, not phenomenal) and - for added flavor - he should be given the siege engineer commander trait. Historians both contemporary and modern agree Ioannes II favored sieges over pitched battles, recognizing the random nature of the latter and the relative safety of the former.
For even more flavor, the character Ioannes III Axuchos (correct spelling should be Axouchos), Duke of Moesia should be scripted as Ioannes II's best friend. The contemporary historian Ioannes Kinnamos writes that he was Ioannes II's only close friend and personal confidant, and from the sources you can really see how close they were. Axouch was a Turk had been taken as a slave by the crusaders at the Siege of Nicaea and given to Alexios I as a gift, who placed him in the imperial household, believing he would make a suitable companion to Ioannes II. When Ioannes II came to the throne, years later, he immediately made Axouch megas domestikos, which was commander-in-chief of the Byzantine military and second only to the Basileus in rank. When Ioannes II foiled the plot of his sister Anna to overthrow him (see above) he tried to give estates he'd confiscated from her to Axouch (who wisely refused). Ioannes II also commanded that petitioners - even members of the imperial family - make obeisance to Axouch as if they would to himself. Dudes were really tight. Naturally, as megas domestikos and commander of the Byzantine military when Ioannes II wasn't around, he should have a fixed military education as well.
Titles. Right off the bat, none of Ioannes II's family should be title holders (same for Axouch). In the Komnenian period the semi-feudalization of the empire that was characteristic of the Palaiologian era had only just begun and Ioannes II is noted as shying away from making the empire a "family business" like his father, Alexios I, allegedly due to his experience with his sister's attempted coup. The imperial family did not hold lands in the same way Western royal families did. While they were given military commands and there are references to them holding private estates, as with CKII the way the game is set up it just doesn't work. Further, while we have some listings for historical holders of actual IRL titles (that may or may not exist in-game), none of Ioannes II's children or siblings are recorded as holding any of the titles they do in the 1124 bookmark. It makes the setup look glaringly ahistorical because his children and siblings are scattered across the map like Western feudal vassals (which they absolutely weren't), and the underage future Manuel I would certainly not be given a province to hold as military commander.
Unfortunately I cannot tell you who should hold the titles currently owned by the imperial family at game start. Ioannes II's reign is, unfortunately, poorly recorded compared to his father and son and we do not know who holds governship of those particular cities or Themes. I would suggest randomly generated Greek Orthodox men as the closest we'll get.
First off, the man himself. He has one scripted trait, zealous, and his other two traits and education are randomized. I would suggest the randomized traits be replaced with forgiving and brave. Zealous is fine, as he was known for his deep religious convictions and persecuting Paulician and Bogomil heretics. Forgiving is absolutely essential to his character too; he has been dubbed the "Byzantine Marcus Aurelius" because he was reputed to have never had anyone tortured or mutilated. He also forgave his sister, Anna Komnene, and her husband Alexios Bryennios for plotting to overthrow him (albeit with Anna being unofficially banished to a monastery). He should be brave too, as he frequently led his armies in combat, receiving a wound in the Battle of Beroia and personally operating siege equipment at the Siege of Shaizar, in which he is praised by both Latin and Muslim sources for his personal courage.
In a similar fashion to brave, above, his education should be fixed at tier 3 military (he was good, not phenomenal) and - for added flavor - he should be given the siege engineer commander trait. Historians both contemporary and modern agree Ioannes II favored sieges over pitched battles, recognizing the random nature of the latter and the relative safety of the former.
For even more flavor, the character Ioannes III Axuchos (correct spelling should be Axouchos), Duke of Moesia should be scripted as Ioannes II's best friend. The contemporary historian Ioannes Kinnamos writes that he was Ioannes II's only close friend and personal confidant, and from the sources you can really see how close they were. Axouch was a Turk had been taken as a slave by the crusaders at the Siege of Nicaea and given to Alexios I as a gift, who placed him in the imperial household, believing he would make a suitable companion to Ioannes II. When Ioannes II came to the throne, years later, he immediately made Axouch megas domestikos, which was commander-in-chief of the Byzantine military and second only to the Basileus in rank. When Ioannes II foiled the plot of his sister Anna to overthrow him (see above) he tried to give estates he'd confiscated from her to Axouch (who wisely refused). Ioannes II also commanded that petitioners - even members of the imperial family - make obeisance to Axouch as if they would to himself. Dudes were really tight. Naturally, as megas domestikos and commander of the Byzantine military when Ioannes II wasn't around, he should have a fixed military education as well.
Titles. Right off the bat, none of Ioannes II's family should be title holders (same for Axouch). In the Komnenian period the semi-feudalization of the empire that was characteristic of the Palaiologian era had only just begun and Ioannes II is noted as shying away from making the empire a "family business" like his father, Alexios I, allegedly due to his experience with his sister's attempted coup. The imperial family did not hold lands in the same way Western royal families did. While they were given military commands and there are references to them holding private estates, as with CKII the way the game is set up it just doesn't work. Further, while we have some listings for historical holders of actual IRL titles (that may or may not exist in-game), none of Ioannes II's children or siblings are recorded as holding any of the titles they do in the 1124 bookmark. It makes the setup look glaringly ahistorical because his children and siblings are scattered across the map like Western feudal vassals (which they absolutely weren't), and the underage future Manuel I would certainly not be given a province to hold as military commander.
Unfortunately I cannot tell you who should hold the titles currently owned by the imperial family at game start. Ioannes II's reign is, unfortunately, poorly recorded compared to his father and son and we do not know who holds governship of those particular cities or Themes. I would suggest randomly generated Greek Orthodox men as the closest we'll get.
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Its mostly my setup from SWMH that Mechl has used, so its a bit rough on Mechl i guess to have to answer for who i placed as title holders and where.
You kind of answer yourself why i have many members of the Imperial Household as titleholders. Ioannes' reign could be better described in the sources. And for many titles the alternatives were an unnamed placeholder (so a randomly generated character) or i had to make a compromise and place an actually existing character somewhere. And the game engine doesn't always seem to handle randomly generated characters all that well.
Compromises can always be debated obviously, i only resort to them, if the better option doesn't seem possible.
As for Ioannes' friendship with Axouchos, i have that scripted in SWMH already, Mechl might have missed it.
You kind of answer yourself why i have many members of the Imperial Household as titleholders. Ioannes' reign could be better described in the sources. And for many titles the alternatives were an unnamed placeholder (so a randomly generated character) or i had to make a compromise and place an actually existing character somewhere. And the game engine doesn't always seem to handle randomly generated characters all that well.
Compromises can always be debated obviously, i only resort to them, if the better option doesn't seem possible.
As for Ioannes' friendship with Axouchos, i have that scripted in SWMH already, Mechl might have missed it.
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Yea the title setup is entirely SWMH with bits taken out due to certain things not existing in CK3 yet. The only bookmark I personally edited was 1166 since that's the main bookmark I've always played and the main reason why I did this mod. I'd imagine titles being held by 'ahistorical' characters was done for the same reason why I gave titles to non historical characters in my 1166 start and that's since it's boring having the ruler have 60 titles at the game start since we didn't know who historically held a place while some historical character ends up landless and forgotten since there isn't anything to make that landless character who did something important later actually do something all by themselves.
Also keep in mind CK3 will not auto generate characters the same way CK2 does and if a title isn't set it just will have that title create a random character with no liege even if you otherwise tell the title to have a liege.
Character file wise things are more complicated. Characters new to SWMH were transferred directly into CK3 with the relevant things that needed changed mass changed like traits. Characters that were vanilla characters are often times going to be exactly the same as they were in vanilla unless I go through and modify the character or mass replace a vanilla file. Most of the time the CK3 file is fine with only some edits needed which are quite easy to add such as the friend relationship you mention. When I feel up to it I could comb through each and every vanilla file and add in smaller details that may have been missed though admittedly I don't feel like doing that right now.
Also keep in mind CK3 will not auto generate characters the same way CK2 does and if a title isn't set it just will have that title create a random character with no liege even if you otherwise tell the title to have a liege.
Character file wise things are more complicated. Characters new to SWMH were transferred directly into CK3 with the relevant things that needed changed mass changed like traits. Characters that were vanilla characters are often times going to be exactly the same as they were in vanilla unless I go through and modify the character or mass replace a vanilla file. Most of the time the CK3 file is fine with only some edits needed which are quite easy to add such as the friend relationship you mention. When I feel up to it I could comb through each and every vanilla file and add in smaller details that may have been missed though admittedly I don't feel like doing that right now.
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I've just noticed that a problem raported by someone out here with knights templar and hospitalers' grand masters being feudal concerns also the Teutonic Order!
@mechl have you solved this problem? You must do it, because the Teutonic Order was much much more powerful than the Knights Templar and the Hospitallers. They built a powerful state in the North and played a very important role in the history of Middle and Eastern Europe (Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, Latvia, Estonia). Is it realy that hard? Maybe I can help you? Here is my screenshot: Wait a moment... he belongs to the holdy order? But he's married... Will he become feudal after unpausing the game? I forgot to check it ;/
