New Beta C.O.R.E. v0.7 ***Discussion Thread***

[unmerged(14683)]

As stated somewhere above, I am unhappy with the CAG system but liked to have real squadrons (30 planes) instead of "Geschwader" (100 planes). I was told it wouldn´t work because the AI couldn´t handle so many planes. Ok, I tried it.
Results:
It is mid 1941 now, and there are no more fighters in the game as in a comparable not modified Core! Are there AI limits to build only a special number of planes or will the AI run Amok lateron, when the USA and Sovietunion have war.
Up to now USA have most planes, 55 squadrons.

Could you explain, what where exact parameters of the test?

Another thing that bothered me was the early war declaration of the USA. I just modified some of the events to reduce the USA´s war entry level to 0 (actually it is -5)

What do you think about this?

In 0.71 we have attached the file with alternative victory points distribution. If you use it, there won't be early US war declaration. Check the FAQ for details.

In new patches we will probably solve this permanently, for now we give players tha choice, if they prefer challenging, or historical US reaction.

 

[frank2003]

I reduced the costs and manpoweruse, the grounddefence and the groundattack (tactical and naval) to 1/3 of the original ones. That are the modifications I made.
Then I started a new game Core 7.1 (playing Germany) and waited how many planes were built by AI. So far Mid 1941 US has 55 squadrons, then Gremany 48, and Britain 30.

There were changes in AI behavior, too. It was the first time I got a bombersquadron from Austria.

I´ll continue this game and report the further results.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

I reduced the costs and manpoweruse, the grounddefence and the groundattack (tactical and naval) to 1/3 of the original ones. That are the modifications I made.
Then I started a new game Core 7.1 (playing Germany) and waited how many planes were built by AI. So far Mid 1941 US has 55 squadrons, then Gremany 48, and Britain 30.

There were changes in AI behavior, too. It was the first time I got a bombersquadron from Austria.

I´ll continue this game and report the further results.

Number of plane units were almost the same as in unmodified CORE, because AI build preferences were not changed... If you want to see decent sized air forces, AI have to be adjusted to the new sizes of units (you have to rise plane preferences roughly 3x).

BTW, lowering ground defense 3x is not good idea, as it's hard to mod (only new model can rise this stat), 50% lower values are much better.

 

[unmerged(25663)]

quick note on communist USA

I note that the Usa Communist is caused by massive dissent(65 if memory serves). I have always found the idea silly and removed it from my games. Anyhow, I would bet that easy level doesn't deal well with USAs dissent.

(I also remove the hitler assassination event, the only thing sillier than a socialist revolution in the USA not causing civil war, is the idea that Hitler's death meant the absolute end of the NAZI party's control. Hitler always had a successor.)

 

[saintsup]

US War Entry

I'm playing UK.

We are in november 42.

Japan declared war to US at the beginning of 42. Since then I cannot make US join the allies. So we have two separate wars US vs Japan and Allies vs Axis. Looks strange to me ...

1) If Hitler hadn't declared war to US after Pearl Harbour (hoping that Japan will enter war with SU), would US have stayed in peace with Germany ?

2) What the point for Japan to declare war with US without entering war with UK/Netherland ? The whole point of the war was to get ressources from malaisia/indonesia.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

I note that the Usa Communist is caused by massive dissent(65 if memory serves). I have always found the idea silly and removed it from my games. Anyhow, I would bet that easy level doesn't deal well with USAs dissent.

Yes, but this not solves the source of problem - if you simply remove this event, USA economy will collapse and they will be totally passive in the game. Maybe we will prepare something to lower chances of this on all the game levels (as I said - on Normal and higher levels USA works just fine), but we can't just remove that without putting something in it's place.

(I also remove the hitler assassination event, the only thing sillier than a socialist revolution in the USA not causing civil war, is the idea that Hitler's death meant the absolute end of the NAZI party's control. Hitler always had a successor.)

We have some plans for this, changing it in full chain of events (powers struggle after the Hitler's death). It's not on our priorities list due to the fact that most people plays Germany, so the conditions to AH assasination rarely happens.

 

[Ilkhold]

Yes, but this not solves the source of problem - if you simply remove this event, USA economy will collapse and they will be totally passive in the game. Maybe we will prepare something to lower chances of this on all the game levels (as I said - on Normal and higher levels USA works just fine), but we can't just remove that without putting something in it's place.

I noticed that in USA startup almost all available ICs are already required for preset tasks. So there is a very narrow margin in what is available. If dissent rises or WE decreases there might be a problem for AI to handle this situation.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

I noticed that in USA startup almost all available ICs are already required for preset tasks. So there is a very narrow margin in what is available. If dissent rises or WE decreases there might be a problem for AI to handle this situation.

On normal level it's exactly that situation. Not sure how all those ships in build and R&D projects affect overall IC balance - maybe AI tries to keep those project on-line, even if it means collapse of whole economy?

Oh well, seems like the Engineer have to check his US events again...

 

[OHgamer]

I'm playing UK.

We are in november 42.

Japan declared war to US at the beginning of 42. Since then I cannot make US join the allies. So we have two separate wars US vs Japan and Allies vs Axis. Looks strange to me ...

1) If Hitler hadn't declared war to US after Pearl Harbour (hoping that Japan will enter war with SU), would US have stayed in peace with Germany ?

2) What the point for Japan to declare war with US without entering war with UK/Netherland ? The whole point of the war was to get ressources from malaisia/indonesia.

Actually from what I have read Roosevelt himself believed that the only way the USA would ever get into the European war was if the Germans declared war on the USA and that the US public would be very hard to convince the USA would have to declare war first on Germany. So, had Hitler not decided to support Japan by declaring war, it could have ended up that way. But as Hitler believed all along that war with the USA was necessary to achiecve his goals and that he had promised the Japanese he would go to war with the USA in solidarity when they did go to war, the result was to bring the USA into the war on the Allies side against Hitler.

I agree it is a bit odd that Japan would only go after the USA and not go for UK/Dutch SE Asia but given the game mechanics of the HoI engine it just happens that way once in a while. Odd but always possible.

 

[MateDow]

On normal level it's exactly that situation. Not sure how all those ships in build and R&D projects affect overall IC balance - maybe AI tries to keep those project on-line, even if it means collapse of whole economy?

Oh well, seems like the Engineer have to check his US events again...

Is it possible to give the US some war entry at the beginning of the game? That would lower the requirement for consumer goods at the beginning of the game. It wouldn't be too unrealistic to give the US less than 10 points of WE and it shouldn't effect their entry into the war too badly. Just a thought. MDow

 

[Ilkhold]

I think the industrial capacity of the USA should be increasing, so it should start with low WE which gets higher, not the other way round.
I think it's better to cut some of the expenses at the start.

 

[saintsup]

Actually from what I have read Roosevelt himself believed that the only way the USA would ever get into the European war was if the Germans declared war on the USA and that the US public would be very hard to convince the USA would have to declare war first on Germany. So, had Hitler not decided to support Japan by declaring war, it could have ended up that way. But as Hitler believed all along that war with the USA was necessary to achiecve his goals and that he had promised the Japanese he would go to war with the USA in solidarity when they did go to war, the result was to bring the USA into the war on the Allies side against Hitler.

I agree it is a bit odd that Japan would only go after the USA and not go for UK/Dutch SE Asia but given the game mechanics of the HoI engine it just happens that way once in a while. Odd but always possible.

Then there should be an event chain like 'when japan declares war on US, then Japan declares war on Allies (with a probability), then Germany declares war on US (with a probability) and US joins Allies, then Japan declares war on SU (with a probability)'.

Btw what are factors influencing US joining the allies ?
Is there a possibility that German IA declares war to US without events ?

 

[unmerged(11593)]

[

quick question,

how do i upgrade the carrier air groups?

great mod btw...........

 

[unmerged(14683)]

quick question,

how do i upgrade the carrier air groups?

great mod btw...........

Standard procedure - move them on home territory, and check if button "upgrade" is active. Most of the time, CAG's benefit from technologies connected with LR light fighters and light bombers, plus from some weapons.

 

[unmerged(21552)]

X

Weserübung
Norway has defense on 130% and my germans 1% in offense - and so every landing in norway is a big defeat. Why? I think the coastal fortress is too strong. Change this please!

Very often the republic spaniards win the war in 1936 (4 games of 5).

When you get two additional units by some event, they always have the same name (11th Panzerdiv and 11th Panzerdiv for ex.)

Don`t know if somebody mentioned this before...

 

[unmerged(8021)]

German-Russian Peace Events

I tried to make sure no one else had already discussed this in this thread, so sorry if it's already been brought up.

I've been playing a CORE 0.7 game as Germany for some time now. It has been quite enjoyable. Believe it or not, the Allies (esp. US) kept me on my toes with BIG landings in Europe. Russia attempted (once or twice successfully) to break through encirclement. By far, this has been the most enjoyable Germany game yet.

However, I had one big surprise that made no sense to me. I really enjoyed all the "liberate" Ukraine and BeloRussia events and such. Then, I got to a point at which I could get rid of Stalin and make peace with a USSR that had a new Administration filled with "eager" recruits from POWs.

I thought, "Great! No more having to unrealistically plowing through all those VP spaces". So, I take the event thinking I have peace with a, basically, puppeted Russia. Wrong!

First off, the "new" Russia demands Ukraine and Belorussia and Romania give back all former territories (mental note: Choose "Puppet" Ukraine, etc. next time instead of just ally!). Then, they start massing all their troops on border. I'm thinking, "Shouldn't they have been disarmed?" But, oh well, I forced 'em to peace settlement.

So, I transfer the bulk of my forces to France to finally get rid of nuissance US and possibly invade UK (which I pulled off successfully). Just as I finish that, "USSR declares war on Axis!". You've got to be frickin' kidding me! What the heck stupid event was that? I force Russia into a peace agreement because I was kicking their a** only to hand over all my conquests so they can then just consolidate and get all their territory back for free! Well, why would I ever choose that event again?! What's the point? Could you guys please let me know what's going on with that?

If I've kicked Russia's butt enough (I had Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad and surrounding area, including all of Caucusus with all oil fields!), why would I give all that up for some stupid peace event that just lets an essentially puppeted Russia get to attack me again from its original borders?


In addition, 4-6 weeks simply is NOT enough time for some of my leg troops to get out of Russia (inidentally, I was able to secure another military access agreement with Russia!). However, most all my Allies could NOT get their troops out of Russia (no military access) or some of the troops simple could not travel that far in that short of time. Well, I think, for the event to be realistic and successful, there should be an automatic military access for all German Allies (or at least European Allies) and for much longer!

Russia, if forced to peace by these means, needs to have some kind of disarmament forced on them and/or forced peace for remainder of war. Also, if possible, Germany not able to declare war on Russia afterward either. I'm not sure how to make this work, but I know the way it is now, it absolutely makes no sense to choose that option.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks,

CK

 

[unmerged(3215)]

Basic Two Engine Ground Attack Aircraft

To get the BTEGAA (see title), you have to research the AI only escort fighters tech......I assume this is a "glitch?"

Also, as Germany, I always get the "Italian Aid to Finland" simultaneously with the policy decision on aid transit -- and it defaults to the choice that you did not allow transit.

Neither is a big deal, just items I had noticed.

AMAZING MOD!!!!!!! My wife hates you for it!

 

[unmerged(14683)]

To get the BTEGAA (see title), you have to research the AI only escort fighters tech......I assume this is a "glitch?"

It's only the problem with wrongly attached name/description (you can normally research those fighters), we will correct that in the next patch.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

First off, the "new" Russia demands Ukraine and Belorussia and Romania give back all former territories (mental note: Choose "Puppet" Ukraine, etc. next time instead of just ally!). Then, they start massing all their troops on border. I'm thinking, "Shouldn't they have been disarmed?" But, oh well, I forced 'em to peace settlement.(...)

Are you sure you set up Vlasov regime (Russia) instead of just making peace with USSR? Russia is also your puppet, so it actively supports your war effort.

If Russia was set, there is no such event that would make them attack you (and definetly not as the USSR). USSR on the other hand can try it's luck... and unfortunately, there is not much we can do about it (it's also the problem in vanilla HoI).

 

[JRaup]

On normal level it's exactly that situation. Not sure how all those ships in build and R&D projects affect overall IC balance - maybe AI tries to keep those project on-line, even if it means collapse of whole economy?

Oh well, seems like the Engineer have to check his US events again...

I don't think it's Engineers events that are messing with US WE values. Having played a few games as the USA in 0.71, I've seen some very wild WE swings for the US (and UK and France too). The changes in VP values may be the cause of it, but I'm not 100% convinced. (See my comments on the Wiki). One example that sticks in my mind:
1940: Right before the fall of Paris to the Germans, USA WE was at 83%. After Paris fell, and Vichy formed, it dropped to 36%. For the UK it dropped to 53%, and France was at 47%.

So, there is definitely an issue with the way WE is linked to Axis control of VPs (neutral Japan seems to only effect Australia and New Zealand, and no one else). But I've noticed these sorts of swings before teh changes in VP values in the USA. It's just more pronounced now. There seems to be some sort of hard coded drop in US WE around the middle of 1940. There have also been issues as regards WE values for the Allies if the USSR steam rolls its way into Western Europe (negative WE values for the Allies).