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I think I prefer when it's done in a narrative style during stuff like battles and whatnot... and a more history-book gameplay style outside of the wars...
that's my stupid thoughts... but what you've been doing currently makes me love your writing, so... I hope when and if you change your way of writing it doesn't end up sucking...
nah... knowing you, anything you try will end up being awsome!
that's my stupid thoughts... but what you've been doing currently makes me love your writing, so... I hope when and if you change your way of writing it doesn't end up sucking...
nah... knowing you, anything you try will end up being awsome!
It's important to keep both in some measure. Mere history is nothing without an inside look (or a nice case of fiction within fiction)
thanks everyone for your imput and support, I should have an update up in a few minutes
-Maximilliano
-Maximilliano
Secular War, Holy Peace: A History of Relations between Mid-East States in the 19th Century by Professor Nafi Ahmed al-Raschid Cortez y Freeman, 1999, Royal University of Amman Press
The Red Plan, proposed by Nuñez, was another encirclement strategy, similar to the strategy attempted in Syria. However, it would be on the grand scale, calling for a dissection of the Ottoman Empire, separating Eastern and Western Turkey, and a massive Re-Mobilization of Jerusalem’s Army, bringing nearly as many men under arms as was afforded by Guy VI, at the height of Jerusalem’s power.
In addition to the previously approved re-commissioning of the Royal Army of Syria and the Order of the Knights of the Holy Sepulcher, the Red Plan would require another 12 divisions to be raised. Nuñez was pessimistic of his chances of receiving the requested 12 divisions, but Alexandrov had this to say:
This amounted to a blank check for whatever Nuñez demanded of the Prime Minister.
The Red Plan called for an amphibious landing behind the main Ottoman defense line, and then quickly seizing Sivas and Trabzon, locking in a large portion of the Ottoman Army
It was on the issue of the Red Plan, when brought before Parliament, that Raphael Alexandrov’s son, Agustin Alexandrov, entered the national spotlight. A first session MP, Conservative Unionist from Jerusalem’s Liberal Wing, Alexandrov took the lead in dissenting from what was still a moderately popular war. He argued, unsuccessfully, against the Red Plan and managed to get Unionist fears that Jerusalem was selling its sovereignty over to the Western Powers, over concessions like the Industry Bill (which gave Britain the right to use Cypriot ports and Beirut, on top of industrial rights).
The Irony, of Alexandrov’s argument, is of course his later participation in the Red Plan. After the measures passing, Nuñez called up all retired Templar Officers to serve for the duration, which happened to include Alexandrov. He would be assigned as Brigadier General under General Moret of the decommissioned 2nd Royal Auxiliary Army, commanding the 9th Infantry Regulars.
The Syria-Baghdad line held through out 1837, with virtually no major battles, conflict being restricted to simple cavalry raids, one raid making it to 4 miles north of Jerusalem before being crushed personally by Nuñez. Otherwise, Ottoman and Jerusalemite forces dug in, waiting for a numerical advantage to force action on either side.
The calm ended on January 3rd, 1838, when the Royal Army of Cypus and the 1st and 2nd Royal Auxiliarys landed at Adana, quickly dispatching with the 22,000 Ottoman defenders. The 1st and 2nd Auxiliaries then made a mad dash to close the ring around Eastern Turkey, moving to seize Sivas and Trabzon.
The Porte, however, recognized the landing for what it truly was, and cautiously moved to pull its forces out of the area, rather then letting them be cut off. Thus, a sizeable chunk of the Ottoman Army would be saved.
The Auxilarys encountered difficulties as soon as they reached Sivas. Ottoman Forces moved into to contest their bid for the city and stopped the 2nd Auxiliary from reaching Trabzon by its deadline. Poor Communications, partisans, and lack of knowledge of the geography also hindered the Jerusalemite forces.
To counter-act the unexpected abandonment of Eastern Turkey by the Ottoman Forces, the Jerusalemite armies along the Syrian-Baghdad line concluded a general advance across the front, hoping to tie up the Ottoman Forces long enough for the ring to be completed – the center piece of Captain-General Nuñez’s strategy had always been to destroy the enemy forces, rather than simply seizing territory.
By the time the 2nd Royal Auxiliary Army reached Trabzon, some six Ottoman Divisions had already escaped from Eastern Turkey. The Ottoman Armies, under General Mehmet Nuri were using the bridge over the River Fol as their primary avenue of evacuation. The 9th Infantry Regulars were charged with holding the bridge over the river Fol.
For Two Months, the Battle for Trabzon continued, the 2nd Auxiliary Army was pressed from two sides, as the rest of the Jerusalemite Army desperately advanced, hoping to hold as much of the Ottoman Army in the Eastern Ring as possible.
When the smoke cleared in June, Ottoman forces collapsing in the face of excessively stubborn Levantine resistance, half the 2nd Royal Auxiliary Army had been decimated, the 9th Infantry Regulars, particularly had been reduced to around 2000 men, having taken 10,000 casualties over the course of the struggle.
Alexandrov the Younger came out of Trabzon a National Hero. The man who argued strongest against the Red Plan became crucial to its implementation. During the decisive Battle of Fol Bridge, the sitting MP was outnumbered 6:1 against, and disobeyed a direct order of retreat from General Moret; had he failed, Alexandrov would have been shot without question.
Such as it was, the press turned him into a hero: Alexandrov the Elder, a political opponent of his son did his best to further his son’s expanding reputation as a military genius.
With the capture of Trabzon, a full third of the Ottoman Army was cut off from the Porte. The Eastern Turkey campaign came to a head at the 2nd Battle of Artvin, on the Russo-Turkish border. Lieutenant General Florez led the Royal Army of the Jordan to victory over the Numerically superior Ottoman Army of Anatolia. In this dramatic confrontation, the Turks fought to the last man, the battle having the unique distinction of having literally taken no prisoners. With the Ottomans disorganized and now, disemboweled, the Jerusalemites pushed forward in along the Black Sea coast until they met formidable opposition. The Ottomans were able to rally, and something approaching order was restored.
Having not only survived, but proven victorious in two phases of the war, Morale in the Levant was high; it seemed that the Armies of Outremer could do no wrong, sweeping the heathen Turk before him, but this belied the reality of the situation.
With its European Empire intact, and holding onto Istanbul and Ankara, the Ottoman Empire was far from out of the fight; as the Auxiliary Armies pushed forward on the Black Sea coast line, a bill came up before the Ottoman Senate proposing a levee-en-masse for the part of the Kingdom of Turkey still under Ottoman suzerainty.
This idea of an inevitable Jerusalemite victory also is flawed in the fact that both the Turkish and Syrian campaigns had been failures. The Syrian Campaign failed to destroy a single Ottoman Division, while the Turkish Campaign failed to yield the expected results, Nuñez having called for the destruction of more than half of the entire Ottoman Army. Thirdly it failed to take into account the desperate situation the Jerusalem Treasury found it self in. The Minister of the Treasury at the time was quoted as saying:
Even with the assumed revenue coming from the “lost crowns”, Jerusalem would go bankrupt, losing hundreds of pounds sterling a day. Finally, the invincibility idea of the time also failed to take into account just how stretched Jerusalem’s resources, especially after the Egyptians formally dropped out of the war in early April, freeing up 60,000 Ottoman Troops to be brought to bear in Turkey.
The Turkish Front, as of the summer 1838
------------------------------------------
So considering how far the war has gone so far, I feel that we should probably give the Turks a chance for some free troops: a Power as strong as the Ottoman Empire in this timeline and a population that large should not be on the ropes quiet yet. However, if anyone else disagrees, I won’t give them the event and just finish them off, nice and quick like (the extra 12 divisions might have been overkill).
Thanks,
-Maximilliano
The Red Plan, proposed by Nuñez, was another encirclement strategy, similar to the strategy attempted in Syria. However, it would be on the grand scale, calling for a dissection of the Ottoman Empire, separating Eastern and Western Turkey, and a massive Re-Mobilization of Jerusalem’s Army, bringing nearly as many men under arms as was afforded by Guy VI, at the height of Jerusalem’s power.
In addition to the previously approved re-commissioning of the Royal Army of Syria and the Order of the Knights of the Holy Sepulcher, the Red Plan would require another 12 divisions to be raised. Nuñez was pessimistic of his chances of receiving the requested 12 divisions, but Alexandrov had this to say:
Prime Minister Alexandrov the Elder said:
This amounted to a blank check for whatever Nuñez demanded of the Prime Minister.
The Red Plan called for an amphibious landing behind the main Ottoman defense line, and then quickly seizing Sivas and Trabzon, locking in a large portion of the Ottoman Army
It was on the issue of the Red Plan, when brought before Parliament, that Raphael Alexandrov’s son, Agustin Alexandrov, entered the national spotlight. A first session MP, Conservative Unionist from Jerusalem’s Liberal Wing, Alexandrov took the lead in dissenting from what was still a moderately popular war. He argued, unsuccessfully, against the Red Plan and managed to get Unionist fears that Jerusalem was selling its sovereignty over to the Western Powers, over concessions like the Industry Bill (which gave Britain the right to use Cypriot ports and Beirut, on top of industrial rights).
The Irony, of Alexandrov’s argument, is of course his later participation in the Red Plan. After the measures passing, Nuñez called up all retired Templar Officers to serve for the duration, which happened to include Alexandrov. He would be assigned as Brigadier General under General Moret of the decommissioned 2nd Royal Auxiliary Army, commanding the 9th Infantry Regulars.
The Syria-Baghdad line held through out 1837, with virtually no major battles, conflict being restricted to simple cavalry raids, one raid making it to 4 miles north of Jerusalem before being crushed personally by Nuñez. Otherwise, Ottoman and Jerusalemite forces dug in, waiting for a numerical advantage to force action on either side.
The calm ended on January 3rd, 1838, when the Royal Army of Cypus and the 1st and 2nd Royal Auxiliarys landed at Adana, quickly dispatching with the 22,000 Ottoman defenders. The 1st and 2nd Auxiliaries then made a mad dash to close the ring around Eastern Turkey, moving to seize Sivas and Trabzon.
The Porte, however, recognized the landing for what it truly was, and cautiously moved to pull its forces out of the area, rather then letting them be cut off. Thus, a sizeable chunk of the Ottoman Army would be saved.
The Auxilarys encountered difficulties as soon as they reached Sivas. Ottoman Forces moved into to contest their bid for the city and stopped the 2nd Auxiliary from reaching Trabzon by its deadline. Poor Communications, partisans, and lack of knowledge of the geography also hindered the Jerusalemite forces.
To counter-act the unexpected abandonment of Eastern Turkey by the Ottoman Forces, the Jerusalemite armies along the Syrian-Baghdad line concluded a general advance across the front, hoping to tie up the Ottoman Forces long enough for the ring to be completed – the center piece of Captain-General Nuñez’s strategy had always been to destroy the enemy forces, rather than simply seizing territory.
By the time the 2nd Royal Auxiliary Army reached Trabzon, some six Ottoman Divisions had already escaped from Eastern Turkey. The Ottoman Armies, under General Mehmet Nuri were using the bridge over the River Fol as their primary avenue of evacuation. The 9th Infantry Regulars were charged with holding the bridge over the river Fol.
For Two Months, the Battle for Trabzon continued, the 2nd Auxiliary Army was pressed from two sides, as the rest of the Jerusalemite Army desperately advanced, hoping to hold as much of the Ottoman Army in the Eastern Ring as possible.
When the smoke cleared in June, Ottoman forces collapsing in the face of excessively stubborn Levantine resistance, half the 2nd Royal Auxiliary Army had been decimated, the 9th Infantry Regulars, particularly had been reduced to around 2000 men, having taken 10,000 casualties over the course of the struggle.
Alexandrov the Younger came out of Trabzon a National Hero. The man who argued strongest against the Red Plan became crucial to its implementation. During the decisive Battle of Fol Bridge, the sitting MP was outnumbered 6:1 against, and disobeyed a direct order of retreat from General Moret; had he failed, Alexandrov would have been shot without question.
Such as it was, the press turned him into a hero: Alexandrov the Elder, a political opponent of his son did his best to further his son’s expanding reputation as a military genius.
With the capture of Trabzon, a full third of the Ottoman Army was cut off from the Porte. The Eastern Turkey campaign came to a head at the 2nd Battle of Artvin, on the Russo-Turkish border. Lieutenant General Florez led the Royal Army of the Jordan to victory over the Numerically superior Ottoman Army of Anatolia. In this dramatic confrontation, the Turks fought to the last man, the battle having the unique distinction of having literally taken no prisoners. With the Ottomans disorganized and now, disemboweled, the Jerusalemites pushed forward in along the Black Sea coast until they met formidable opposition. The Ottomans were able to rally, and something approaching order was restored.
Having not only survived, but proven victorious in two phases of the war, Morale in the Levant was high; it seemed that the Armies of Outremer could do no wrong, sweeping the heathen Turk before him, but this belied the reality of the situation.
With its European Empire intact, and holding onto Istanbul and Ankara, the Ottoman Empire was far from out of the fight; as the Auxiliary Armies pushed forward on the Black Sea coast line, a bill came up before the Ottoman Senate proposing a levee-en-masse for the part of the Kingdom of Turkey still under Ottoman suzerainty.
This idea of an inevitable Jerusalemite victory also is flawed in the fact that both the Turkish and Syrian campaigns had been failures. The Syrian Campaign failed to destroy a single Ottoman Division, while the Turkish Campaign failed to yield the expected results, Nuñez having called for the destruction of more than half of the entire Ottoman Army. Thirdly it failed to take into account the desperate situation the Jerusalem Treasury found it self in. The Minister of the Treasury at the time was quoted as saying:
Even with the assumed revenue coming from the “lost crowns”, Jerusalem would go bankrupt, losing hundreds of pounds sterling a day. Finally, the invincibility idea of the time also failed to take into account just how stretched Jerusalem’s resources, especially after the Egyptians formally dropped out of the war in early April, freeing up 60,000 Ottoman Troops to be brought to bear in Turkey.
The Turkish Front, as of the summer 1838
------------------------------------------
So considering how far the war has gone so far, I feel that we should probably give the Turks a chance for some free troops: a Power as strong as the Ottoman Empire in this timeline and a population that large should not be on the ropes quiet yet. However, if anyone else disagrees, I won’t give them the event and just finish them off, nice and quick like (the extra 12 divisions might have been overkill).
Thanks,
-Maximilliano
What's your manpower situation like?
I think giving the Ottomans a few troops - a campaign organised by clerics for men to enlist in the army etc - is quite reasonable.
I think giving the Ottomans a few troops - a campaign organised by clerics for men to enlist in the army etc - is quite reasonable.
I would agree with giving the Ottomans a few spare divisions, maybe to represent Muslims in Russia coming to save Turkey from christian expansion... otherwise a very solid update, I am enjoying this completely.
I bet an Ottoman attack from the Caucasus with the silent dupport of Russia would be quite nerve-wrecking for the military command of Jerusalem.Mr. Capiatlist said:
Of course the odds of Russia and Turkey forging such an alliance would itself require a major departure from our timeline. I assume that the Russians still covet Constantinople.KanaX said:
It is strange that things look so good at a glance but upon closer inspection not at all.....
I doubt Russia would ever support the Ottomans.
and I'm willing to bet Jerusalem is going to be fine after it destroyes the Ottomans. Unless you're in debt EXACTLY 7345200 pounds. Any more or any less and you'll be just fine...
and I'm willing to bet Jerusalem is going to be fine after it destroyes the Ottomans. Unless you're in debt EXACTLY 7345200 pounds. Any more or any less and you'll be just fine...
Hey everybody, sorry about the delay, but i've been getting CTD's... i'm still trying to figure it out, so hopefully i can get it fixed. Thanks everyone for reading!
-Maximilliano
-Maximilliano
Mr. Capiatlist said:
I'm playing on Mac, we don't have the luxury of learning what precisely is wrong with our computer. Though it turns out to be some miscripting on the extra manpower, im working on the next update right now, though there will be a distinct lack of screen shots... it *ahem* slipped my mind as i was playing...
Thanks for reading everyone
-Maximilliano
Secular War, Holy Peace: A History of Relations between Mid-East States in the 19th Century by Professor Nafi Ahmed al-Raschid Cortez y Freeman, 1999, Royal University of Amman Press
With the Calling up of some 250,000 troops, the front stabilized, shifting slightly in favor of the Ottomans. Jerusalem attempted to bring its remaining troops, particularly the Elite Knights Templar into the fray, but was facing bitter uprisings in Eastern Turkey. The strains of war were taking its toll on the economy, and manpower, which had flourished in 1836, was beginning to thin out in 1839. Nuñez realized, with Ottoman Troops falling into line (and the threat of a more extensive levee after elections), that an offensive would be needed now or the numbers would be enough to club Jerusalem into submission.
Nuñez ordered the largest move so far: The Royal Armies of Jerusalem, Egypt, Syria, Cyprus, and the Jordan were ordered to strike the 9th Corps, the anchor of the Ottoman line, in Ankara. The 1st battle of Ankara was swift, with the 90,000 Ottomans retreating in the face of some 200,000 Jerusalemite troops. After securing the city, Nuñez left the Royal Armies of the Jordan and Cyprus in Ankara, ordering the RA Jerusalem, Egypt and Syria to move behind Ottoman lines and secure as much territory as they could, in the general direction of Uskudar. He also ordered the Royal Auxiliaries to move forward along the Black Sea coast.
The line broke. Battle after battle, the Ottomans seemed in full retreat towards Europe. After a lightning fast summer campaign, the Ottomans maintained a defensive line in Bulo and Izmit, denying Jerusalem access to the European Empire. In each province upwards of 200,000 troops were maintained. While Jerusalem might be able to engage a single one of these, it would require the bulk of the Levant’s forces, and doing so would allow the other 200,000 Turks to pour through the gap in Jerusalem’s line.
Nuñez then did what is considered his controversial act. Illegally, he conscripted Jerusalemites in occupied Ottoman territories into an extremely repressive, 100,000 strong Cavalry Force known simply as “the Gendarme”, intended to violently suppress the uprisings in Eastern Turkey. Their atrocities, meticulously recorded to the benefit (or detriment, depending on your point of view), are remember today more than a century later. Regardless of their acts, their existence allowed the Knightly Orders that had been previously tied down in keeping the Occupied territories pacified to move towards the front.
When the Orders arrived, in late summer 1840, Nuñez made his gamble. The bulk of Levantine forces would engage the Ottomans at Bulo, while the numerically inferior Knightly Orders (Templars, the Jordan, Mount Lebanon, Hospitilars, and Holy Sepulcher) would engage the Ottomans at Izmit, until the rest of the Army could come in and destroy the Ottomans.
This would prove disastrous. At the first Battle of Bulo, some 120,000 casualties were taken on the Levantine side. The Knightly Orders were forced to disengage at Izmit, after having lost some of their best soldiers.
A second attempt was made in winter 1840-41. Lt. General Florez would lead the assault at Bulo, and Captain General Nuñez would lead the assault at Izmit personally.
Some 600,000 Ottoman Troops participated; 490,000 Levantine troops assaulted their opponents. The 2nd battles of Bulo and Izmit would last four months, provide the war’s decisive moment, and prove a watershed moment in Near East history.
---------------------------------
Thanks everyone for reading and commenting... i've got class in a few hours and i need sleep, so I'll try to respond as quickly as i can. First my manpower situation at this point was in twenties, if i do recall correctly. And yes ComradeOm, like most good commanders, Nunez takes his lessons from the great leaders of years gone by The turks in Eastern Turkey didn't need the Russians to stir them up... i swear, they were enough by themselves. one would swear they were occupying china or something. And Russian Near East policy has always been one of playing Jerusalem off of the Ottoman Empire to gain concessions. But remember this Ottoman Empire is not the "sick man of europe". It is a westernized Great Power, with a more liberal tradition than even Jerusalem (though this admitedly is a newer development 1710's were the reforms begining). As for the Habsburgs... well there was a regency period after the death of Guy VI, in which Jerusalem managed to piss Vienna off, royaly as it were. In 1793, the Habsburgs were "invited" to rule Jerusalem, and proceeded to occupy the Crusader states. Habsburg rule was shortlived, (1793-1805), but their secret police tactics, and refusal to call parliament, left a deep mark on Levatine society. Their is no love lost between Austria and Jerusalem. Vienna would be glad to see The Turks gut Jerusalem. And my debt actually is exactly 7345200 pounds. So basically, I'm fucked then.
Thanks everyone for reading, I should get the rest of the war up tommorow or tuesday.
-Maximilliano
With the Calling up of some 250,000 troops, the front stabilized, shifting slightly in favor of the Ottomans. Jerusalem attempted to bring its remaining troops, particularly the Elite Knights Templar into the fray, but was facing bitter uprisings in Eastern Turkey. The strains of war were taking its toll on the economy, and manpower, which had flourished in 1836, was beginning to thin out in 1839. Nuñez realized, with Ottoman Troops falling into line (and the threat of a more extensive levee after elections), that an offensive would be needed now or the numbers would be enough to club Jerusalem into submission.
Nuñez ordered the largest move so far: The Royal Armies of Jerusalem, Egypt, Syria, Cyprus, and the Jordan were ordered to strike the 9th Corps, the anchor of the Ottoman line, in Ankara. The 1st battle of Ankara was swift, with the 90,000 Ottomans retreating in the face of some 200,000 Jerusalemite troops. After securing the city, Nuñez left the Royal Armies of the Jordan and Cyprus in Ankara, ordering the RA Jerusalem, Egypt and Syria to move behind Ottoman lines and secure as much territory as they could, in the general direction of Uskudar. He also ordered the Royal Auxiliaries to move forward along the Black Sea coast.
The line broke. Battle after battle, the Ottomans seemed in full retreat towards Europe. After a lightning fast summer campaign, the Ottomans maintained a defensive line in Bulo and Izmit, denying Jerusalem access to the European Empire. In each province upwards of 200,000 troops were maintained. While Jerusalem might be able to engage a single one of these, it would require the bulk of the Levant’s forces, and doing so would allow the other 200,000 Turks to pour through the gap in Jerusalem’s line.
Nuñez then did what is considered his controversial act. Illegally, he conscripted Jerusalemites in occupied Ottoman territories into an extremely repressive, 100,000 strong Cavalry Force known simply as “the Gendarme”, intended to violently suppress the uprisings in Eastern Turkey. Their atrocities, meticulously recorded to the benefit (or detriment, depending on your point of view), are remember today more than a century later. Regardless of their acts, their existence allowed the Knightly Orders that had been previously tied down in keeping the Occupied territories pacified to move towards the front.
When the Orders arrived, in late summer 1840, Nuñez made his gamble. The bulk of Levantine forces would engage the Ottomans at Bulo, while the numerically inferior Knightly Orders (Templars, the Jordan, Mount Lebanon, Hospitilars, and Holy Sepulcher) would engage the Ottomans at Izmit, until the rest of the Army could come in and destroy the Ottomans.
This would prove disastrous. At the first Battle of Bulo, some 120,000 casualties were taken on the Levantine side. The Knightly Orders were forced to disengage at Izmit, after having lost some of their best soldiers.
A second attempt was made in winter 1840-41. Lt. General Florez would lead the assault at Bulo, and Captain General Nuñez would lead the assault at Izmit personally.
Some 600,000 Ottoman Troops participated; 490,000 Levantine troops assaulted their opponents. The 2nd battles of Bulo and Izmit would last four months, provide the war’s decisive moment, and prove a watershed moment in Near East history.
---------------------------------
Thanks everyone for reading and commenting... i've got class in a few hours and i need sleep, so I'll try to respond as quickly as i can. First my manpower situation at this point was in twenties, if i do recall correctly. And yes ComradeOm, like most good commanders, Nunez takes his lessons from the great leaders of years gone by
The turks in Eastern Turkey didn't need the Russians to stir them up... i swear, they were enough by themselves. one would swear they were occupying china or something. And Russian Near East policy has always been one of playing Jerusalem off of the Ottoman Empire to gain concessions. But remember this Ottoman Empire is not the "sick man of europe". It is a westernized Great Power, with a more liberal tradition than even Jerusalem (though this admitedly is a newer development 1710's were the reforms begining). As for the Habsburgs... well there was a regency period after the death of Guy VI, in which Jerusalem managed to piss Vienna off, royaly as it were. In 1793, the Habsburgs were "invited" to rule Jerusalem, and proceeded to occupy the Crusader states. Habsburg rule was shortlived, (1793-1805), but their secret police tactics, and refusal to call parliament, left a deep mark on Levatine society. Their is no love lost between Austria and Jerusalem. Vienna would be glad to see The Turks gut Jerusalem. And my debt actually is exactly 7345200 pounds. So basically, I'm fucked then.Thanks everyone for reading, I should get the rest of the war up tommorow or tuesday.
-Maximilliano
My my, quite the titanic struggle going on there. If that particular battle is a defeat - well - things would not look at all rosy. But if the order could break through...
But even if it is a victory, there will surely be consequences. How many young men have already died? What reputation is being earned? Victory is rarely an abundance of good things.
But even if it is a victory, there will surely be consequences. How many young men have already died? What reputation is being earned? Victory is rarely an abundance of good things.
I wonder how many more lives it will take to finally reach the Bosphorus... and whether Jerusalem can afford the punitive cost.
I've always appriciated quick, minor gains... as compared to long, total victory... Les deaths, less money lost, and you can always go for round two later...