Confirmed Office Zones Max Workers Constantly Decreasing

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Information​

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Summary​

Office Zones Max Workers Constantly Decreasing

Steps to reproduce​

Build any office zone

Expected Result​

The building's maximum number of workers should stay constant, perhaps even increasing when the building levels up

Actual Result​

The building's maximum number of workers gradually decreases down to 5, no matter the lot size

Game Version​

1.1.5F1

Affected Feature​

• Balance

Platform​

• Steam

Additional Information​

Additional Information​

Edited: confirmed this bug occurs with both low/high density, and both new/existing saves

Save Game​

View attachment Mendon.cok

Other Attachments​

View attachment Mendon.cok

 

[Johnnysims]

I, and I assume most of all of you, play multiple games. Some are fully released products. Others are early access titles. All of these have bugs. One thing I've noticed with CO however, is they don't seem to be too motivated to take action.

I feel this is a company based on talk and ideas, but very little action. In almost all of the other games I play, if a patch is put out and a game breaking bug is found, a hotfix/patch is immediately cooking and there is communication with the players on Discord or other social media. This has happened literally dozens of times in the past year across a wide genre of different games. What I see from CO is a lot of "holiday" time that is prioritized and an extremely long development cycle for even the smallest of fixes. This seems very obviously to be a management issue at CO. The leadership aspect of management seems almost non existent and is highlighted by a complete lack of meaningful direction throughout the week to ensure the product is working for the customers. The senior management at CO is ill prepared for the scope of the game design and the size of the market they were working in. I have lost all faith that CO management has the ability to manage a product of this size.

So at this point, with this game breaking bug as well as others, we will have to wait for the process at CO to run its course before we get a fix. I have no faith or previous evidence to suggest this will happen quickly. More than likely, this fix will require more content that was promised months ago to get pushed back farther and farther down the road. What happens ultimately with all of this is unknown; but faith is lost. CO had all of our confidence coming from CS1 to 2. CS1 was a fantastic product with regular updates and an involved community. This, for many, has been eroded to some extent. People will in the future be much more cautious before supporting one of these titles. Whether anyone at CO chooses to believe this or not; you have done tremendous harm to your brand with your handling of this game.

I don't dispute most of your sentiments. But CS1 didn't have "regular updates". Bug fixes came with DLC releases every 2 or 3 months. In between that there was hardly any communication, and granted there didn't need to be really but they've never been talkative and always more behind the scenes kinda devs. But in regards to a bug like the offices, I agree that requires a fix in a day or 2. Not weeks.

 

[Christianhelps]

Do you have any thoughts on how the bugs you mentioned cause office buildings to have "None" for the company? Obviously your explanation makes sense for downsizing of the company to the minimum of 5/5 employees, but does it also cause the companies to just vanish from buildings as well? If so then I hope this would be a quick hot fix.

On a side note, it seems strange that a single high-density office building only contains a single company, rather than multiple companies, each with a corresponding number of employee based on individual company profitability. I assume this is unrelated to the issues we are observing, but it could also exacerbate it too.

Having the entire building filled with a single business is more of a design decision made to help reduce complexity.

 

[Adwozo]

Just tried it, doesn't stop the problem unfortunately

just updated it should fix some of the bug and set min level at 1/4 max capacity, else determine by company cash/company worth so profit ratio
version 1.1.1 Profit Based Industry And Office

some graph

can see a bit smaller than pre economy patch, tax should directly affect it as well, as it affect the money the company have. Higher traffic jam will likely happen as well if they are all making good money and more concentrated.

 

[Caprea.Berlin]

Well the problem was there pre patch
Offices paid a lot of tax in my city pre patch (Patch December 2028)

but from what? They never sold one good

But they accumulated a lot of wealth, after patch even more

I did not use any mod (neither pre or after patch) that should have had any influence on the offices.

Btw, it does not look as if my city any problems with jobs in industry or commercial after patch (and pre neither).

 

[saladuit]

can see a bit smaller than pre economy patch, tax should directly affect it as well, as it affect the money the company have. Higher traffic jam will likely happen as well if they are all making good money and more concentrated.

You are a god. I was trying to find you on discord and github. No luck. Just downloaded it and it works! Probs! One question though, it seems that they never sell their stock. Do you have any ideas what the issue could be?

 

[Pointkung]

In my city of 1.1 million people, I did not encounter these problems. After an adjustment period of one month in the game, my city resumed rapid growth and increased by 10,000 per hour. I think this major revision has solved most of the serious bugs. There may be the small BUG you mentioned. Before this update, if I did not use the land price adjustment MOD, a bunch of buildings would be abandoned inexplicably, and the population would continue to decrease significantly. Using the land price adjustment MOD, the population did not continue to decrease significantly. However, a city that cannot grow is not fun at all, so I stopped playing for a few months until this update.

I have written my experience to share how to play, and was trained by Gemini and Copilot to become his knowledge, so you can ask the AI "According to reddit, strategy for 2 million people".

The biggest problem with Skylines 2 is actually that the game company made the game too realistic and too difficult, but 99% of players don’t blame themselves for not being able to play, so it’s difficult for game companies to have healthy communication with players.

After this experience, game companies should not release Skylines 3 again

For two replies already, you literary talk about something else completely. I don't know what is in the wrong here but my translator can translate your first reply well.


And again, saying that offices big and small lay off people and employ 5 because it doesn't export goods realistic means you are so out of touch from this post.

 

[Pointkung]

Well the problem was there pre patch
Offices paid a lot of tax in my city pre patch (Patch December 2028)

View attachment 1155445

but from what? They never sold one good View attachment 1155446

But they accumulated a lot of wealth, after patch even more View attachment 1155447

I did not use any mod (neither pre or after patch) that should have had any influence on the offices.

Btw, it does not look as if my city any problems with jobs in industry or commercial after patch (and pre neither).

I see, maybe my speculation on the industry side is just that people stop buying from the zone directly. It in fact does not accumulate goods like the offices do. My city has less problem when I replace offices by factories too.

Follow up from my previous reply: maybe I am just nitpicking here, seeing the each of my factories stock 2-3 tons of goods and not exporting despite the export/import deficit is a bit annoying. The overall cargo flow in my city (all combined) reaches 120k tons prepatch, now it's just 13k tons via trucks and ship only. The ship only import stuff I don't produce enough 100 tons at a time, and no export. My train and air are not utilized at all. I shall come back with more graphs to confirm atleast for the cargo flow when I use my PC again later today.

This and @Jeruntje mentioning it in another bug post means there should be some investigation, but I can wait for the dev to focus the office one to be fixed first. The factories are not breaking the game that much for now.

Also, shout out to @Adwozo for the coming up with his solution! Maybe not the root of the problem, but should make the game playable until then.

Edit: The cargo flow is 87k tons pre-patch and 5k post patch (see screenshots in the post below). My bad on coming up with the number when I am away from the PC, but my point is still there.

 

[Adwozo]

You are a god. I was trying to find you on discord and github. No luck. Just downloaded it and it works! Probs! One question though, it seems that they never sell their stock. Do you have any ideas what the issue could be?

no i dont know, the mod is just updating the max worker. is this a new bug you found x.x, also updated with github link

 

[olicon1999]

I have same issue. This bug is happening whole office building low density, high density, even signature building. I hope they fix this bug real quick.

 

[Pointkung]

no i dont know, the mod is just updating the max worker. is this a new bug you found x.x, also updated with github link

It's what we are currently suspecting as a cause to why the offices eventually lay off people to the bare minimum of 5.

 

[Adwozo]

It's what we are currently suspecting as a cause to why the offices eventually lay off people to the bare minimum of 5.

i see, but the thing is I dont know if office have product storage, the game use the same logic for both industry and office (commercial has its own logic), and industry is looking okay i think at the moment. So what i assume will have to investigate more to be sure but, due to office having no product, the game just bugged out keep lowering the max worker until min is reach which in the game is 5.

Ideal fix should be office having its own logic, so to not duplicate the logic run and based it off something other than product storage. Which if for a mod to do would need harmony (for best performance), dont know if it is working on the next game patch yet. Currently, just running along side in game logic, and overwriting the max worker field.

 

[Twiston2030]

最新更新后，此 MOD 已经生效，https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/83825/Windows。测试后，一切正常。现在我们只需要无家可归的问题。

 

[Pointkung]

Hi guys, I am back with the screenshots I promised earlier. First, the employment: I can confirm that only the employment on the office side is affected. My city starts the economy 2.0 era in March 2031. The several spikes you see after the patch drop in the graph is me bulldozing several offices at a time which reset the employment bug but only for a while.

The factory jobs are normal, even increase as they should be.

However, despite the normality in the factory job employment, there is a significant reduce in cargo flow in my city. This could be another indication to the bug @Jeruntje mentioned in https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ods-and-huge-production-of-materials.1691456/.

Before economy 2.0 cargo flow & material goods (factory products), taken by going to the backup save and pause:

Post economy 2.0 release cargo flow & material goods (factory products), taken from the same save I bring up the city statistic:

I will also include the latter part in @Jeruntje post.

 

[saladuit]

but the thing is I dont know if office have product storage,

If you use extended tooltip mode you can see there stock!

 

[saladuit]

Ideal fix should be office having its own logic, so to not duplicate the logic run and based it off something other than product storage.

I think the problem should be solved where they dont sell it to the businesses/consumers listed. But im not sure how to test that.

 

[saladuit]

Hi guys, I am back with the screenshots I promised earlier. First, the employment: I can confirm that only the employment on the office size is affected. My city starts the economy 2.0 era in March 2031. The several spikes you see after the patch drop in the graph is me bulldozing several offices at a time which reset the employment bug but only for a while.

View attachment 1155736

The factory jobs are normal, even increase as they should be.

View attachment 1155738

However, despite the normality in job employment. There is a significant reduce in cargo flow in my city, which could be another indication to the bug @Jeruntje mentioned in https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ods-and-huge-production-of-materials.1691456/.

Before economy 2.0 cargo flow & material goods (factory products), taken by going to the backup save and pause:

View attachment 1155743View attachment 1155744

Post economy 2.0 release cargo flow & material goods (factory products), taken from the same save I bring up the city statistic:

View attachment 1155745
View attachment 1155746

I will also include the latter part in @Jeruntje post.

How is your unemployment?

 

[BRWNewc]

just updated it should fix some of the bug and set min level at 1/4 max capacity, else determine by company cash/company worth so profit ratio
version 1.1.1 Profit Based Industry And Office

some graph
View attachment 1155384
View attachment 1155383View attachment 1155382
can see a bit smaller than pre economy patch, tax should directly affect it as well, as it affect the money the company have. Higher traffic jam will likely happen as well if they are all making good money and more concentrated.

Looks like this fixes the immediate problem for me of my economy crashing after the Economy 2.0 update. It seems that, as we have discussed in this thread, there was likely a bug in the game since before the Economy 2 patch, where goods were stockpiling a lot/not being sold. In the Economy 2 patch, this bug manifested via the downgrading of companies such that the employees were the minimum of 5/5 or the company would just vanish from the building. This caused my tax income for offices to basically go to $0, resulting in a massive deficit in my profit.
The updated mod by Adwozo prevents my office companies from downsizing/vanishing, resulting in a more stable/expected economy behaviour.

However, I do not believe this addresses the underlying problem of companies not selling their goods. This issue needs to be addressed, but has a thread already opened: very low production of material goods and immaterial goods and huge production of materials

In the meantime, this mod makes my city of 30k playable in that I have a positive income.

 

[Adwozo]

Looks like this fixes the immediate problem for me of my economy crashing after the Economy 2.0 update. It seems that, as we have discussed in this thread, there was likely a bug in the game since before the Economy 2 patch, where goods were stockpiling a lot/not being sold. In the Economy 2 patch, this bug manifested via the downgrading of companies such that the employees were the minimum of 5/5 or the company would just vanish from the building. This caused my tax income for offices to basically go to $0, resulting in a massive deficit in my profit.
The updated mod by Adwozo prevents my office companies from downsizing/vanishing, resulting in a more stable/expected economy behaviour.

However, I do not believe this addresses the underlying problem of companies not selling their goods. This issue needs to be addressed, but has a thread already opened: very low production of material goods and immaterial goods and huge production of materials

In the meantime, this mod makes my city of 30k playable in that I have a positive income.

Not sure if this is correct but currently weight 0 product are removed in the ResourceExporterSystem queue. which i suspect could be office product, with no handling it wont sell. So possible missing feature?

A mod that run before it specific for 0 weight product could in theory fix the bug. But i am not entirely sure and I am not that experience with the game variable and class naming just started modding cities 2, any one with extensive cities 2 game play modding experience if can help on this would be great.

 

[Pointkung]

How is your unemployment?

I would like to include the pre-patch information from my backup save.

Pre-patch: A population of ~72k, 12.4% unemployment (~8.9k unemployed people).

Post-patch + around 1 in-game year of simulation: A population of ~128.8k, 54.7% unemployment (~70.5k unemployed people). Note the ~14k people who chose not to work despite the job availability.

So funny that the number of people who decided not to work (~14k) almost matches the disappeared office positions (~12k). The discrepancy (of ~2k) is likely to new educated people moved in and find themselves unemployed or is studying (but student is considered an occupation??? Or maybe I should only count the people in my university and college which kind of plug in the 2k gap perfectly), please let me and dev know if you think otherwise. Anyway, I believe this make sense since office workers are likely educated and prefer not to reemploy themselves in factories and stores.

I think office is the main culprit for the overall city income lose, not the lazy people who do not work in the first place (separated issue or bug for the other ~56k people). I think the ~56k group is why my resident tax does not increase with population growth (not the loses). A temporally increase in July 2032 in residential matches the time I just bulldoze reset the rest of my office (70% of what is in the city):

However, some people notice that despite the positive trend, they still lose money: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/loosing-money-on-positive-trend.1691104/. All I can say for now is I kind of have that also, but not confirmed. I have adjusted everything until +500k a month, but my fund is stuck at >400k for 2 months now. Nevertheless, @Adwozo 's mod indeed stabilize the income well enough; I don't really notice that anymore. Maybe more simulation time while disabling @Adwozo 's mod is needed.

P.S. Please ignore the dip in industry around 2032, I was just attempting if bulldozing factories solve the material goods flow or not. Also, building more factories brings back my residential tax income. Also, the way the city statistics are represented is stacked, hence, separated graphs for data I want to differentiate.



Why also the residential though? People getting unemployed and become homeless also affecting the residential tax side:

but I do recognize a flood of uneducated homeless as well (this is the same park), they are likely the other ~56k group:

There is already a thread regarding the flood of homeless: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...remely-high-crime-rate.1691846/#post-29731666. Some say it's the destruction of the residential building that cause this, but I can't replicate the bug for now (in the post patch save). Everyone in my post patch save + 1 year of simulation can immediately find a new home as long as they have jobs and spaces available, which for the latter I definitely have. I guess in this reply I am mentioning so many convoluted bugs.

Edit: Add mention on the other income bug.

 

[DarkMore111]

@Pointkung Regarding your helpful screenshots: You mentioned bulldozing offices, but not all of them and they got rebuild. I like to add, that when an office building is bulldozed, the company behind it doesn't leave the city immediately. Rather they build on available space or occupy empty office buildings and carry over their debt and storage.

I think I found it but not exactly sure looking at their code in assemblies (Game.Simulation.IndustrialAISystem.CompanyAITickJob), it is not exactly a bug, but a very strange logic,
they have a minimum worker limit of 5,

• if the max storage of the product is larger than max/2 it will decrease max worker by 1,
• if storage is smaller than max storage/4 they will add max worker by 1.

so technically downsizing if demand low or supply too high, or not exporting fast enough
but my city have a deficit in office product so still bugged

According to this information, in the current patch, offices scale down production and reduce cost in order to empty and balance their accumulated storage. But as discussed before, they seem unable to export their goods due to bug.

Using a pre-patch save and deleting and dezoning all office buildings, going into the transition period came for me without the rampant population growth so far. I need to do further testing, but maybe it could prevent the observed rise of homeless people and unemployment to an extent.

View attachment 1155802

Why also the residential though? People getting unemployed and become homeless also affecting the residential tax side:
View attachment 1155829
but I do recognize a flood of uneducated homeless as well (this is the same park), they are likely the other ~56k group:
View attachment 1155774

I think the residential tax looks in general as expected. In eco 2.0 dev diary #1 it is said, that wages have been increased, so this and influx of new employed people may explain the tax increase.

Wealth of homeless people could partially be explained by the new temporary unemployment money they receive, before they move out of the city.

The observed increase in conmercial tax seems to be in line with increased wages and the new price calculation for goods, so customers spend more money in commercial to afford them, thus increasing commercial income to pay tax.

Just my guesses as always, trying to make sense of your observed data.