Omni ab Deo Adaequatur: Ex Albiononis ad Persidem

[LordLeto]

I think everyone is over racting a bit to sterks antics in MTT. He doesn't have pagans to stomp on to boost his strenght here.

The kind of rapid growth in vanilla games isn't really possible here until the Mongols show up.

 

[Kujy]

Why do you give money to person who does not repay, even when he has loads of it (he had the estates event soon after you gave the loan)?

Sterk claimed he was broke I think, so me being the charitable soul I am decided to lend him money. Would I have done it if I knew I'd still be 160 gold shy? Probably not.

One who did that might be responsible for a superpower emerging in the Mediterranean (neither me nor, Jarkko and Johoo are not feeling very safe I guess), unless it was his aim..

Bah, look how far you've expanded already bin, even with the BB hit. I'm sure if Sicily really starts to threaten Milan, Tunis or even Catalonia, then all three duchies will be able to come into some sort of an agreement to assure their continued existence.

EDIT: by the by Leto, when it was said we have to run "SemiSalic Succession laws", does that mean either Primo, Cons. or Gavelkind OR was there one specific one we have to have?

 

[LordLeto]

Any of the three is fine. Just as long as its semi salic. I belive Elective was fine as well.

 

[binTravkin]

Bah, look how far you've expanded already bin, even with the BB hit. I'm sure if Sicily really starts to threaten Milan, Tunis or even Catalonia, then all three duchies will be able to come into some sort of an agreement to assure their continued existence.

My expansion was merely a luck - a neighbour got excommunicated, before that I was backwater.
There are several other factors to take into account before claiming Im anywhere near as powerful as Sicily, Tunis, Tabriz or Tessalonika:
- no heir
- massive BB
- poor (only barcelona and bordeaux has reasonable base income, but not anywhere near Tunis, Rome or Byzantion)
- grey eminence monarch (this helps to solve my BB problem, but makes me weaker than midas monsters)
- stuck - Im virtually blocked with a double duke of Zaragoz to south, powerful and prestigious (can't claim anything of him) duke of Navarra to West and duke of Mallorca who's allied to Milano to the East. And I have nothing to do to the north while I am not a king.

I'm sure if Sicily really starts to threaten Milan, Tunis or even Catalonia, then all three duchies will be able to come into some sort of an agreement to assure their continued existence.

Yeah, but you might get the blame for aiding Sterk..
Also, ask him to repay the money at once.

 

[LordLeto]

Also, ask him to repay the money at once.

Yeah, gotta stand up to the bullies. Don't worry we got your back. Oh this little knife? It's nothing. I certainly wouldn't think of inserting it into your back. Parrish the thought!

 

[Kujy]

Yeah, but you might get the blame for aiding Sterk..
Also, ask him to repay the money at once.

I learned my lesson, next time I'm keeping my gold to myself. [/scrooge mode]

....Sterk where's my gold!!

 

[Swuul]

There are several other factors to take into account before claiming Im anywhere near as powerful as Sicily, Tunis, Tabriz or Tessalonika:

Huh? Powerful as Tunis? With the pitiest army around and a mediocore income...

- poor (only barcelona and bordeaux has reasonable base income, but not anywhere near Tunis, Rome or Byzantion)

Ummm... Tunis and Byzantion are not even the same league with each other. Half of Russia has same base as Tunis


I truly don't know what I have done to recieve this apparent awe from the rest of you (expect Sterk who knows what I am). Just because I like player-player interaction and I do not bend over in wars (I basically never give up if there is even the slightest of hope available; a good reputation if you do not want people to attack you in hopes of fast gains -> in a war with me be ready for a long and bogged fight, as I am no good in offensive wars but I'll stubborness have its sides ) does not make me somehow a l33t player in general

 

[binTravkin]

Huh? Powerful as Tunis? With the pitiest army around and a mediocore income...

Still you have 20 and that's on the same league as Tessalonika, Tabriz and Franconia.
Im having 12 or something like that IIRC.

Ummm... Tunis and Byzantion are not even the same league with each other. Half of Russia has same base as Tunis

Hmm, well, my mistake then, I somehow remembered form SP games Tunis was very rich..

 

[Swuul]

Still you have 20 and that's on the same league as Tessalonika, Tabriz and Franconia.
Im having 12 or something like that IIRC.

Getting an income of 12 from your demesne is rather low, don't you agree? Squeeze the burghers, they have money under their fat butts, that's what I did to pump Tunis' income from 11 to 20 (which btw will be lower now that I don't have that Steward 9 available anymore)

 

[Spinalcurve]

I want a steward 9
All i got was 5-6 only.

 

[unmerged(50852)]

Heh after my duke dies, hopefully from high Piety, Ill have a steward of 12 and a king with around 11-14. Hopefully I get Midas touch like I have 6 times in the sp games Ive been running as tests. Persia before 1100 easy hehe.

Oh and Jarkko I finally get what you meant by BB management. I think Im prepared but I need more people with essencial schooling when my son inherits.

 

[Kujy]

I want a steward 9
All i got was 5-6 only.

You think that's bad? My old marshal died of, surprise, old age. My new marshal has a stat of *drum roll*....1!!! My duke has a base stat of 3 so do the math. Yes I'm quite prone to getting beaten bloody, but at least I'll go down swinging!

 

[LordLeto]

You think that's bad? My old marshal died of, surprise, old age. My new marshal has a stat of *drum roll*....1!!! My duke has a base stat of 3 so do the math. Yes I'm quite prone to getting beaten bloody, but at least I'll go down swinging!

And missing. :rofl:

 

[Swuul]

I want a steward 9
All i got was 5-6 only.

I had Steward 6 until I took the bishop off duty. The pope then sent me a few new ones, of which one ended as chancellor, one as spymaster and one as steward (and then one as bishop). So now that the steward-bishop died of old age I have to take the bishop off-duty again and wait for the pope to send me a new proper steward again

 

[binTravkin]

Hehe, this is nice trick with the bishop off duty, never thought of it as an exploit.

 

[Swuul]

Hehe, this is nice trick with the bishop off duty, never thought of it as an exploit.

Well it is not an exploit as such, as you have to pay good money for it. To get a steward who boosts income by 3 ducats a month and pay for it 190 ducats, you are taking a risk, because the steward has to be available for 5+ years to make up the invested money (this equation does not however consider the larger army available during the time because of the increased income; as there might be no war at all during the time and the boost to number of men in the army might not be enough to alter the outcome anyway) . In my case in Tunis the risk wasn't worth it (however, the other two bishops recieved still work as chancellor and spymaster IIRC, and that of course can be seen to be worth something), but I am still prepared to take the chance again, hoping that a Bishop with Stewardship 9+ arrives on the first or second attempt

 

[binTravkin]

Well it is not an exploit as such

In the situation you describe, it might not be considered an exploit, but consider this:

I doubt Pope would send one bishop after other to your realm even if you ask him IRL.

In my situation another bishop makes big difference:
- +100 piety (go towards PC!)
- reduction of my demesne penalty (= more money)
- +0.2 monthly prestige
- +1 (capped at +2) for this and other bishop monthly loyalty change
- increased BB reduction

 

[Swuul]

In my situation another bishop makes big difference:
- +100 piety (go towards PC!)
- reduction of my demesne penalty (= more money)
- +0.2 monthly prestige
- +1 (capped at +2) for this and other bishop monthly loyalty change
- increased BB reduction

Demense penalty: If it drops by 5% (making your income 5% higher) it is not easy to justify with the cost of ~500% of your monthly income (it begins to pay back after 100 months, ie about 8+ years. Same with BB reduction, it is better to pay the disloyal vassals and hope your ruler dies, unless your demesne is *really* big and you need to get more christian people to give land (not a problem in this game really as there are only christians around); as you will get random courtiers if you do not have enough people in your court -> the random courtiers come for free).

However I do not totally vouch against the use of this "trick". *If* I had been around from the start I *might* not have been forced to this, but as it were all my advisors (except the marshall) had the influencing stat at 6 or below...

 

[Spinalcurve]

Tell me more about this "bishop off duty" -thing please

 

[binTravkin]

Bishop off duty?

You must have seen event 'Pope asks to place an itinerant bishop in your court' or somesuch, where you get new monastery-educated person for some cash.
It fires when you have no diocese bishop set.
So, if you need bishops, just unset your diocese bishop (give him other position, then give that position to original owner) and the event will fire time by time.
The other way is give titles to your courtiers, but you an never now whom will you get in return (it only *might* be bishop, but in some 100% - (50%:male / 5:types of education) = 90% cases it is not).

Bishops and daughters are best vassals, on the other side.
The first ones give you +100 piety when you give them title and piety is really valuable as I wrote above and recieve loyalty bonus for positive piety, capped at +2%/month.
The second get a relation boost +2%/month from familiy ties, plus their lands revert back to the closest+oldest male relative (per primogeniture law usually) when they die, so usually you'll get the lands back. Besides it's an excellent way to not marry your daughters if under semi-sallic and thus escape any assasinations targeting heirs.

EDIT: another goodness of bishops lies in fact they can never be inherited away from you, while you have to watch important vassals to not be inherited by other players. Also, if they become Pope, lands revert back to you.