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Now the additions of the kuk Marine.
Note : The Cruisers aren't 100 % correct but I can't get it better in the moment

name = "Flottenflaggschiff"
leader = Haus
location = 743
Ships
name = "Viribus Unitis" type = battleship model = 1


name = "Erstes Lienenschiffgeschwader"
leader = Njegovan
location = 743
Ships

name = "Tegetthoff" type = battleship model = 1
name = "E. Franz Ferdinand" type = battleship model = 0
name = "Radetzky" type = battleship model = 0
name = "Zrinyi" type = battleship model = 0


name = "Zweites Lienenschiffgeschwader"
leader =
location = 743
Ships

name = "Erzherzog Karl" type = battleship model = 0
name = "Erzherzog Friedrich" type = battleship model = 0
name = "E. Ferdinand Max" type = battleship model = 0
name = "Habsburg" type = battleship model = 0
name = "Árpád" type = battleship model = 0
name = "Babenburg" type = battleship model = 0


name = "Flotilla 1"
leader =
location = 743
name = "Flotilla 1" type = destroyer model = 0

name = "Flotilla 2"
leader =
location = 743
name = "Flotilla 2" type = destroyer model = 0



name = "U-boote Division"
leader = Georg Ritter von Trapp
location = 743
Ships
name = "Uboote" type = submarine model = 0


name = "5te Linienschiffdivision"
leader = von Chlemarz
location = 747
Ships
name = "Monarch" type = battleship model = 0
name = "Wien" type = battleship model = 0
name = "Budapest" type = battleship model = 0
name = "K.u.K Maria Theresia" type = cruiser model = 2



name = "Erste Kreuzer Division"
leader = Fiedler
location = 743
Ships
name = "Kaiser Karl VI" type = cruiser model = 2
name = "Sankt Georg" type = cruiser model = 2
name = "Kaiser Franz Joseph I" type = cruiser model = 0
name = "Zenta" type = cruiser model = 0
name = "Aspern" type = cruiser model = 0
name = "Szigetvár" type = cruiser model = 0
name = "4. Flotilla" type = destroyer model = 1



name = "Zweite Kreuzer Division"
leader =
name = "Admiral Spaun" type = cruiser model = 1
name = "Saida" type = cruiser model = 1
name = "Helgoland" type = cruiser model = 1
name = "Novara" type = cruiser model = 1
name = "3. Flotilla" type = destroyer model = 1

name = "China Station"
leader =
location = 1626
Ships
name = "Kaiserin Elisabeth" type = cruiser model = 0

***capital ships under construction***

name = "Prinz Eugen" type = battleship model = 1
[ready July 1914]
name = "Szent István" type = battleship model = 1
[ready December 1915]

Spocky
 
Spocky - I was going through your German fleet list adding in ID numbers and I spotted some errors:

You have a lot of ships at location 580, which is Halle and a long way inland :) Where did you mean these ships to be?

In the section on the 3rd Geschwader, you have a gap then a block of ships, some of which, like the Prinz Adalbert, you repeat elsewhere. Was this a copy-and-paste error? What ships does this squadron contain?

Regarding the destroyer flotillas, I was working on the basis of 10 ships = one flotilla unit for HoI purposes, even if historically the navies organised things differently. How did you determine the flotilla numbers?

Regarding the unit names, would it be ok to put 3. Geschwader (etc) rather than Drittes Geschwader (etc)? This might be more meaningful for non-German speakers :) If so, what's the correct way to write ordinal numbers (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th) in German?
 
Originally posted by StephenT
Spocky - I was going through your German fleet list adding in ID numbers and I spotted some errors:

You have a lot of ships at location 580, which is Halle and a long way inland :) Where did you mean these ships to be?
Click to expand...

Upps. These ships should be in Kiel and I thought Kiel has 580

Originally posted by StephenT
In the section on the 3rd Geschwader, you have a gap then a block of ships, some of which, like the Prinz Adalbert, you repeat elsewhere. Was this a copy-and-paste error? What ships does this squadron contain?
/B]
Click to expand...
Double ups. Big copy and paste error . I've forgotten to delete some ships . The correct OOB for drittes Geschwader

name = "Drittes Geschwader"
leader = Funke
location = 589
Ships
name = "Kaiser" type = battleship model = 1
name = "Kaiserin" type = battleship model = 1
name = "König Albert" type = battleship model = 1
name = "Prinzregent Luitpold" type = battleship model = 1


Regarding the destroyer flotillas, I was working on the basis of 10 ships = one flotilla unit for HoI purposes, even if historically the navies organised things differently. How did you determine the flotilla numbers?[/B]
Click to expand...

Basically I also worked with 10 ships per Flotilla. But if there was a presence of ships I can' ignore I was going down ( Like at the remaining Tsingtauships . These had been two Trorpedoboats and about 8-12 GBs. I tried to combine them in the s90 which can also made weaker . Sometimes I go the other way
( Baltic sea . These destroyers are more in number but lesser in fighting values. The Baltic squads should simbolize around 15 ships )


Regarding the unit names, would it be ok to put 3. Geschwader (etc) rather than Drittes Geschwader (etc)? This might be more meaningful for non-German speakers :) If so, what's the correct way to write ordinal numbers (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th) in German? [/B]
Click to expand...

It would be OK. I tried to be 100% correct to proove that I have clue I was writing off but to make it easer for the non-german speakers its ok :)
1st = 1tes ;2nd = 2tes an so on but maybe it look better 1. 2. 3. 4. ...

Spocky
 
Update to AH
Originally posted by Spocky

name = "Zweites Lienenschiffgeschwader"
leader = von Keil
location = 743
Click to expand...

Spocky
 
I was looking at the Royal Navy’s OOB which has been written, and noticed a few peculiarities concerning the various strengths of the ships which I think have consequences for the game’s war at sea as a whole. I’ve taken a few examples:

HMS King Edward VII, pre-Dreadnought
Sea Attack: 9
Air Attack: 2
Sea Defence: 9
Air Defence: 2
Speed in knots: 15

HMS Dreadnought
Sea Attack: 9
Air Attack: 2
Sea Defence: 12
Air Defence: 2
Speed in knots: 20

Dreadnought appears to be only fractionally stronger than its pre-Dreadnought counterpart, King Edward VII, only ahead in terms of sea defence and speed, when it should be considerably stronger in terms of sea attack to represent the strength of its bigger, more numerate guns.

HMS Lion, Battlecruiser
Sea Attack: 9
Air Attack: 2
Sea Defence: 8
Air Defence: 2
Speed in knots: 25 (should be 27?)

Battlecruiser Lion, although rightly quicker than a pre-Dreadnought, is only equal to it in terms of Sea attack, when it should actually be the equal or just more powerful than a Dreadnought.

HMS Queen Elizabeth, Super-Dreadnought in HOI:TGW
Sea Attack: 15
Air Attack: 2
Sea Defence: 15
Air Defence: 2
Speed in knots: 25 (correct speed)

HMS Queen Elizabeth, Super-Dreadnought in Standard HOI
Sea Attack: 10
Air Attack: 3
Sea Defence: 12
Air Defence: 2
Speed in knots: 20 (incorrect speed)

I’ve also noted the strengths of the same Super-Dreadnought in our version and the standard version, and find that the Queen Elizabeth is stronger in HOI:TGW than it is in standard WWII version, which needless to say, is rather unusual. Therefore, it would seem that every battleship in our OOBs has to be weakened in order to be realistic, using the WWII Queen Elizabeth as a yardstick.

Presumably, the game was made so that ships’ strengths and attributes were as realistic as possible, with respect to how they would contribute to any battle, how long a battle lasts etc. In my mind, the ships in our version should have ratings that keep in mind how strong the ships in the standard WWII version are.

Perhaps we should have:
Super Dreadnoughts like Queen Elizabeth - rated at A:10 D:12 (like in the standard WWII version)

Stronger Dreadnoughts like Iron Duke or Marlborough – rated at A:9 D:11

Dreadnoughts – rated at A:8 D:10

Battlecruisers like Lion – rated at A:9 D:8/9

Pre-Dreadnoughts like King Edward VII – rated at A:6/5 D:8

Cruisers should theoretically be weaker, although I’m not sure how much room that gives for manoeuvre concerning what relative strength they should have. If the weakest battleships are to have ratings of 6-8, then cruisers should be relatively weaker The same can be said for Destroyer flotillas.

Also, it would seem that the air attack/air defence capabilities of the WWII Queen Elizabeth is only just marginally superior to the 1905 King Edward VII, which leads me to think that Pre-Dreadnoughts should have minimal or no air attack/air defence capabilities whatsoever.

You may not agree with the necessity of changing every ship’s strength relative to the standard version’s Queen Elizabeth, but there certainly needs to be a readjustment concerning the comparative attributes of Dreadnoughts in relation to pre-Dreadnoughts, as well as Battlecruisers in relation to pre-Dreadnoughts.

And one more thing (As Columbo might say), perhaps Royal Navy ships should have their traditional attachment ‘HMS’. :)
 
Personally I'd ignore the standard HoI ratings and go with what works for our mod, on the basis that it's the relative strength of Attack and Defence, not the absolute numbers, that matters. If we start reducing the ratings of battleships, we'll have to also reduce all the cruisers and destroyers, and we'll run out of numbers :)

Put another way, the WW1 battleship Queen Elizabeth was the terror of the seas, the most powerful ship afloat. The WW2 battleship Queen Elizabeth was a 25-year-old relic, only able to hold its own with more modern ships thanks to constant expensive upgrades. It's just a coincidence that they happen to be the same ship...

My vote - raise the battleship/1 sea attack to 11, raise the battleship/2 to 13, leave battleship/3 at 15. I could maybe go with reducing the battleship/0 to 8, but cruiser/2 (such as the Scharnhorst or the Black Prince) have sea attack 7, so there's not much of a gap there.
 
Fair enough. :)

I'd have battlecruisers attack like battleship/2, but with inferior defence. They should probably have a speed of 27 as well.

With that, you essentially have what battlecruisers were designed to be - lightly armed, quick Dreadnoughts.
 
Battlecruisers actually had less firepower than battleships, on average.

The Invincible class (laid down in 1906) and Indefatigable class (1909-10) had eight 12" guns. Compare that to HMS Dreadnought herself from 1905, which had ten 12" guns.

Incidentally, all 6 of these battlecruisers had a speed of 25 knots.

Later BCs like the Lion, Tiger and Princess Royal had eight 13.5" guns, but the BBs being built at the same time had also gone up to ten 13.5" guns. The later BCs did have speed 27 knots.

Finally, the BC equivalents of the Queen Elizabeth class (8 x 15"), the Renown and Repulse, had - you guessed - six 15" guns, and a top speed of 30 knots.

Unfortunately I don't think there are enough ship models available to provide BC versions of all the different battleship types.
 
It's probably best just to have one type of battlecruiser then - either the Invincible class to represent the earliest, or an averaged out class somewhere between the Invincible class and the Hood
 
Originally posted by Allenby
It's probably best just to have one type of battlecruiser then - either the Invincible class to represent the earliest, or an averaged out class somewhere between the Invincible class and the Hood
Click to expand...

Or you could have a naval tech that increases the sea attack values of battlecruisers to represent the increase in firepower and have it as an upgrade.
 
Originally posted by Burris
Just making sure: Is the ottoman navy completed?
Click to expand...

Yes it is, but what to do with the Reshadieh and Sultan Osman isn't totally certain, although we have a fair idea.

You wouldn't happen to know who ran the Turkish Navy before Admiral Souchon would you? Djemal was the Minister of Marine, but I'm having difficulty finding the military chief. :)
 
According to my book before the war tthe navy was run by an unamed (At least in this book) British rear admiral.
 
Originally posted by Burris
According to my book before the war tthe navy was run by an unamed (At least in this book) British rear admiral.
Click to expand...

All these British admirals were heads of the British naval mission at the Ottoman empire and in fact were in command of the Turkish fleet:
Admiral Sir Douglas Gamble: 18.09.1908 - 05.1910
Admiral Hugh Williams: 05.1910 - 1911
Admiral Arthur Limpus 1911 - 1914?

P.S. What my sources indicate as an "admiral", must be of course a rear-admiral or a vice admiral, because AFAIK Full Admirals were rare even at the Royal Navy
 
Last edited:
Nice work Dibo ;)
I was posting Limpus just this minute in another topic .
What do you think about my ideas for events around Goeben
and Breslau

Spocky
 
I've been through the OOB files making various minor changes:
1) Added all the ships under construction.
2) Updated the German and A-H naval OOBs to reflect Spocky's updated deployment information.
3) Given every major naval power some transport ships - not based on any careful research, just added 2-4 ships in their main port (on average - USA, Britain get many more).
4) Deleted all the British territorial infantry divisions from their start OOB. They now get these through the Mobilisation event instead.
5) Updated the colonial troops of various countries - mostly reducing full-strength divisions to reflect their understrength status in January 1914.
6) Written the Air OOBs!
:cool:

Barring any amendments (#cough#GoebenandBreslau#cough#) I think that means all the OOBs are now final, complete and finished!

Code: 
AUSTRIA-HUNGARY

airunit =	{
	location = 621 # Wien
	id = { type = 11111 id = 1000 }
	name = "Luftfahrtruppen"
	# leader = Uzelac
		division = {
		    id = { type = 11111 id = 1001 }
		    name = "1. D-Flik"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 50
		    }
	}

BELGIUM

airunit =	{
	location = 552 # Bruxelles
	id = { type = 18111 id = 1000 }
	name = "Aviation Militaire Belge"
	# leader = de Saint-Marcq
		division = {
		    id = { type = 18111 id = 1001 }
		    name = "1ere Groupe"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 15
		    }
	}

FRANCE

airunit =	{
	location = 543 # Nancy
	id = { type = 26111 id = 1000 }
	name = "1. Aviation Militaire"
	# leader = Barés
		division = {
		    id = { type = 26111 id = 1001 }
		    name = "1ere Groupe"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 100
		    }
	}
airunit =	{
	location = 527 # Paris
	id = { type = 26111 id = 1002 }
	name = "2. Aviation Militaire"
	# leader = Duval
		division = {
		    id = { type = 26111 id = 1003 }
		    name = "2e Groupe"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 50
		    }
	}

GERMANY

airunit =	{
	location = 558 # Köln
	id = { type = 22111 id = 1000 }
	name = "1. Fliegertruppen"
	# leader = von Höppner
		division = {
		    id = { type = 22111 id = 1001 }
		    name = "1. Geschwader"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 100
		    }
	}
airunit =	{
	location = 555 # Strassburg
	id = { type = 22111 id = 1002 }
	name = "2. Fliegertruppen"
	# leader = von der Lieth-Thomsen
		division = {
		    id = { type = 22111 id = 1003 }
		    name = "2. Geschwader"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 100
		    }
	}
airunit =	{
	location = 603 # Breslau
	id = { type = 22111 id = 1004 }
	name = "Festungs-Fliegerabteilungen"
	# leader = Kastner-Kirdorf
		division = {
		    id = { type = 22111 id = 1005 }
		    name = "3. Geschwader"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 50
		    }
	}
airunit =	{
	location = 588 # Hamburg
	id = { type = 22111 id = 1006 }
	name = "Marine Luftschiffedienst"
	# leader = Mathy
		division = {
		    id = { type = 22111 id = 1007 }
		    name = "1. Luftschiffegruppe"
		    type = transport_plane
		    model = 0
		    strength = 100
		    }
	}
airunit =	{
	location = 575 # Mannheim
	id = { type = 22111 id = 1008 }
	name = "Armee Luftschiffedienst"
	# leader = ?
		division = {
		    id = { type = 22111 id = 1009 }
		    name = "2. Luftschiffegruppe"
		    type = transport_plane
		    model = 0
		    strength = 100
		    }
	}

ITALY
airunit =	{
	location = 912 # Milano
	id = { type = 52111 id = 1000 }
	name = "1. Corpo Aeronautica"
	# leader = Morris
		division = {
		    id = { type = 10111 id = 1001 }
		    name = "1. Gruppo"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 100
		    }
	}
airunit =	{
	location = 901 # Napoli
	id = { type = 52111 id = 1002 }
	name = "2. Corpo Aeronautica"
	# leader = Orsini
		division = {
		    id = { type = 10111 id = 1003 }
		    name = "2. Gruppo"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 50
		    }
	}

RUSSIA

airunit =	{
	location = 709 # Riga
	id = { type = 23111 id = 1000 }
	name = "1. Imperial Air Service"
	# leader = ?
		division = {
		    id = { type = 23111 id = 1001 }
		    name = "1. Otryady"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 100
		    }
	}
airunit =	{
	location = 643 # Warszawa
	id = { type = 23111 id = 1002 }
	name = "2. Imperial Air Service"
	# leader = ?
		division = {
		    id = { type = 23111 id = 1003 }
		    name = "2. Otryady"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 100
		    }
	}

BRITAIN

airunit =	{
	location = 499 # London
	id = { type = 27111 id = 1000 }
	name = "Royal Flying Corps"
	# leader = Henderson
		division = {
		    id = { type = 27111 id = 1001 }
		    name = "1st Group"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 50
		    }
	}
airunit =	{
	location = 503 # Portsmouth
	id = { type = 27111 id = 1002 }
	name = "Royal Naval Air Service"
	# leader = Sueter
		division = {
		    id = { type = 27111 id = 1003 }
		    name = "2nd Group"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 90
		    }
	}

USA

airunit =	{
	location = 183 # North Carolina
	id = { type = 25111 id = 1000 }
	name = "Signal Corps Aviation Section"
	# leader = Kenly
		division = {
		    id = { type = 25111 id = 1001 }
		    name = "1st Group"
		    type = naval_bomber
		    model = 0
		    strength = 25
		    }
	}
 
Outstanding! I'll update my progress pages to show our Air OOBs to be totally finished.

Have British and American ships been given their 'HMS' and 'USS' tags?

As far as I know the commander of the Italian Army Air Service in 1914 was Maurizio Moris - with one 'r' as opposed to 'Morris'.

And I'm glad someone's taken notice of my Goeben and Breslau conundrum :D
 
i have a few questions on the german army oob...
did you consider the "schutztruppen" in the german colonies ?
if they are in: did you include the historical leaders (since they weren't even major generals...)
how are the reserve korps and how is the mobilisation handled ?
 
Originally posted by crawler i have a few questions on the german army oob...did you consider the "schutztruppen" in the german colonies ?if they are in: did you include the historical leaders (since they weren't even major generals...)
Click to expand...

I do not know the answer to this, but I am sure StephenT, Allenby, or Kaiser Bill (I can't remember who did the German order or battle) will chime in soon with answer.


Originally posted by crawler how are the reserve korps and how is the mobilisation handled ?
Click to expand...

Reserve corps and mobilisation will be handled by event. Basically at the start of the game only active military units will be on the map, with a small Manpower pool. At the start of the war, a mobilization event will kick in where the reserve units appear (historically accurate as best as we could get I believe), and a Manpower bonus to represent the volunteers. As the war goes on and Manpower gets lower more events will come in to replenish Manpower numbers, at a cost the more you call though.

I think StephenT is handling those events, but I could be wrong.
 
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