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Clearly someone who has never read my posts, I use and support Steam, and support putting Paradox games on Steam.
I want all the "problems" to be looked at, but I'm grouped in with irrational people and my posts are dismissed as such.
Hence when the problems DO crop up - and there are always problems of some sort - people will be wondering why nobody thought of it, despite the fact that I already have.
And they do crop up already. You just need to take a thorough look at the forums.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?659864-Missing-CD-key-from-Steam-Version-of-DH
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-Steam-how-i-can-register-it-on-Paradox-forum
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1725995.html (was finally fixed, or not, I don't know)
I also told you my personal history with Steam a few pages ago. They just suck at avoiding issues and the problems reappear all the time. Because Steam is a cash-grab-machine and not well thought-out.
I also don't like it as an option to download (illegal) 3rd-party-software to make it run. The possibility of suffering from a virus is there. If Steam would go down, many hackers would use the opportunity to their advantage and try to supply you with malicious software under the disguise of Steam supplements.
By the way, Their Finest Hour is out of stock at greenmangaming.com. Recently it was even on discount and out of stock at the same time.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?659864-Missing-CD-key-from-Steam-Version-of-DH
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-Steam-how-i-can-register-it-on-Paradox-forum
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1725995.html (was finally fixed, or not, I don't know)
I also told you my personal history with Steam a few pages ago. They just suck at avoiding issues and the problems reappear all the time. Because Steam is a cash-grab-machine and not well thought-out.
I also don't like it as an option to download (illegal) 3rd-party-software to make it run. The possibility of suffering from a virus is there. If Steam would go down, many hackers would use the opportunity to their advantage and try to supply you with malicious software under the disguise of Steam supplements.
By the way, Their Finest Hour is out of stock at greenmangaming.com. Recently it was even on discount and out of stock at the same time.
Most of the "problems" you linked, were simple "out of keys", which simply get resupplied and fixed the moment steam puts them in their system again.
There was absolutely no trouble on the "user-end" which kept them from playing the game, so i see no "problem" there.
Your second part... it's funny, i'll leave it at that as i dont respond to mere conjecture.
Your concerns aren't irrational. Nor are the concerns, complaints, or issues that most other people have.
A typical Steam thread anywhere is a bunch of people explaining why they have an issue with it, a bunch of people calling them irrational because that's just about all they got, a very few people irrationally thinking Steam is the bad if even that (really, if someone doesn't like something because of something as trivial as it's colour for example who are you to call them irrational?), a very few people disliking Steam due to misinfo, even fewer respectfully setting them right, a bunch of folks condescendingly setting them and everyone else who never had misinfo right over and over again and throwing in the irrational thing because that's all the got, a few people who think Steam is the shiz and just want to say so, and a few people who think Steam is the shiz yet can respect and empathize with the concerns of those who don't. And, occasionally you'll get a pretty deep legal debate by those who understand the legal issues of Steam and it's TOS and the possible precedents set (I've not yet seen that on Paradox forums, but it may be here somewhere).
These simple problems take weeks / months to fix and no, I wouldn't want to start a match in a 1.00 Paradox game. It's just sloppy work, though I'm sure both the developer as well as the publisher will kick the can down the road.
I also listed former problems with Steam, to underline how frequent these problems are: not being able to sign up my physical copy, people were locked out for not signing a new EULA, Valve being sued in Germany for preventing re-reselling, people complaining at release about not being able to chance the installation path, installation over internet necessary although there is a dvd full of data, Steam being hacked in 2011 (addresses stolen, too).
Their track record is horrendous. Steam is a problem child and will remain so.
I also listed former problems with Steam, to underline how frequent these problems are: not being able to sign up my physical copy, people were locked out for not signing a new EULA, Valve being sued in Germany for preventing re-reselling, people complaining at release about not being able to chance the installation path, installation over internet necessary although there is a dvd full of data, Steam being hacked in 2011 (addresses stolen, too).
Their track record is horrendous. Steam is a problem child and will remain so.
Oh indeed. I'm aware. At some point there's likely to be a similar suit in the U.S. There has not yet been sufficient interest on behalf of a specific party though that I've ever seen. It helps a company like Valve that a large portion of it's consumer base is a bunch of kids for whom nothing else matters than playing a game, legalese is ancient Greek, and how a TOS affects their rights is as distant from their mind as Pluto is from Earth.
One of these days I should probably ask EFF why they haven't sued, though I'm guessing they're just waiting to see the results of some other suits currently pending vs. other companies, or for the right time and right interested party, or just need more resources, or all of the above. You need to have your ducks in a row if you're going to take on a multibillion dollar company/industry.
Valve's attempting to stave that off by locking people into binding arbitration, as they know very well they're on the wrong side of a century of legal precedent and a slew of consumer laws. They also know very well though that they're in the 9th circuit's jurisdiction, and most judges in that circuit are in the pocket of Hollywood and the tech industry. They also know that most modern politicians in Washington D.C. are completely tech illiterate and/or in the back pocket of the tech industry, hence why we have the DMCA, which ignores a century plus in legal precedent and a slew of other laws. And of course they know they have very deep coffers and can bully Joe Average consumer that would sue them or drag out any legal battle to the point Joe Average can't afford to sue them.
Steam aside, the tort reform issues of binding arbitration are going to come to a head in the next decade. In many states it already is starting to, but not in Washington where Valve is located, and I fully expect Washington to be one of the last hold outs on getting rid of the 'reform' laws many states passed in the previous decade. There are also other suits before courts that will affect Valve and Steam. So, we'll see. Given Gabe Newell's audacity to thumb his nose at all the other consumer laws and verdicts that he has I fully expect Valve to have to be sued directly in the long run to comply even if the other suits pending against other companies that would have direct ramifications on Valve were to be won in favor of the consumer (as they have been almost every time in the last 100+ years).
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Don't forget the name calling. Either directly or by association, in the few Steam threads I've participated I've been called things like pathetic, tinfoil-wearing paranoid, selfish, ignorant, luddite, and of course irrational as you mention, which seems to be the cool thing to call anybody who doesn't like your favorite shop. That's without counting the plethora of smug and patronizing posts like TheRevanchist's latest. I really don't know why you guys bother anymore... Paradox has already decided to go full Steam and the few of us who don't like that fact will have to get used to it because there are simply too few of us to matter.
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I actually agree, there has been some bad posts from either side, however i have to disagree about wondering why they even bother.
I think while i see some mis-information about, that as a whole, the people who feel Steam is a bad decision that they don't like, should be able to voice their opinion, it is after all : Feedback.
No company in their right mind would ignore feedback, especially constructive feedback.
And if someone seems to go over the top instead of looking at it like : "wow they really hate", it should be looked at like : "Wow they really care deeply"
And i think some of the posters on either side don't understand this,
if any of my posts came across as harsh or anything : My apologies, though i think my posts have been quite neutral and focused on trying to clear up some misconceptions i saw posted.
In the end we are all here for the same reason (or at least i hope so) : We love Paradox games.
This will ruffle some feathers, but I don't consider "I don't want steam on my computer" to be a valid complaint. That's just me, but that's how I feel on the issue.
I believe Steam is using its size and considerable influence to force game developers to produce games with Steam-specific installers in exchange for access to their vast userbase.
Due to the cost of maintaining two separate installers, one for Steam and one that is non-Steam, Steam has effectively created a situation in which game designers are obligated to cater to Steam before all else.
That is why I don't want Steam on my computer.
I believe Steam is using its size and considerable influence to force game developers to produce games with Steam-specific installers in exchange for access to their vast userbase.
Due to the cost of maintaining two separate installers, one for Steam and one that is non-Steam, Steam has effectively created a situation in which game designers are obligated to cater to Steam before all else.
That is why I don't want Steam on my computer.
But that's moral/values/ideology, and morals have no place in business - successful business anyway.
Untrue on both counts. As for the former, there are a number of reasons posted in the various threads dealing with this issue as to why someone doesn't want Steam on their computer. One of the most basic is that person X really finds it completely un-useful. No matter what the program it's a pretty basic thing to understand why someone might not want X on their computer. There's a whole slew of software I don't want on my computer, and I'd fully expect most everyone else to not want certain things for various reasons on their computers either. Especially those who understand well how they work.
If you don't understand it, or can't find empathy for it, the loss is yours, not theirs. If you expect others to take your concerns seriously you should endeavor to take theirs seriously. Meaning that if you can't understand it, do a bit to try and wrap your head around it more, rather than dismiss it. Just because you don't see an issue with something doesn't mean it's an invalid issue. Put yourself in other people's shoes.
Frankly, of all the complaints/concerns listed in this particular thread I think yours may be the least pertinent and most peripheral, however I still accept it as it's not completely unfounded, and agree with you when you said that some good PR from Paradox in regards to EU4 and Steam would be a good thing.
As far as the latter, there's no way I'm going to write that essay here. If you really think morals or values have no place in business... I wouldn't even know where to begin... I'll just say 'doing the right thing' has a place and a reward just about everywhere, ignoring 'what is right' will very often come back to haunt you, and there is a nifty thing called karma (you reap what you sow).
And so we arrive at yet another multi page steam thread.
Here is the thing guys, there are 3 camps.
A) Anti Steam camp, do not want it on their comp under any circumstances, and no amount of name calling or "reasoned, articulate explanationtion" of why they should want it, or why it is a good thing, or why it is good for Paradox will ever convince them differently.
B) Pro Steam camp, Want the game to be steam only (why would you download from anywhere else), no amount on name calling or "reasoned, articulate explanation" of why you should not want it or why it is a bad thing, or why it is bad for Paradox will ever convince them differently.
C) The vast majority of people that just do not care as long as they have someway to play great Paradox games. These people after reading the first few posts in a steam thread go "Oh another one of those", and stop reading.
Thus the entrencheded camps just fling the same arguments back and forth at each other with no one ever having a legitimate epiphany and saying wow that argument made me totally reverse my opinion.
Instead things tend to degenerate into personal attacks, name calling and hard feelings.
So now that everyone has had a chance to have their say, lets close this one as well.
Surprise! no one won the argument on the internet.
Here is the thing guys, there are 3 camps.
A) Anti Steam camp, do not want it on their comp under any circumstances, and no amount of name calling or "reasoned, articulate explanationtion" of why they should want it, or why it is a good thing, or why it is good for Paradox will ever convince them differently.
B) Pro Steam camp, Want the game to be steam only (why would you download from anywhere else), no amount on name calling or "reasoned, articulate explanation" of why you should not want it or why it is a bad thing, or why it is bad for Paradox will ever convince them differently.
C) The vast majority of people that just do not care as long as they have someway to play great Paradox games. These people after reading the first few posts in a steam thread go "Oh another one of those", and stop reading.
Thus the entrencheded camps just fling the same arguments back and forth at each other with no one ever having a legitimate epiphany and saying wow that argument made me totally reverse my opinion.
Instead things tend to degenerate into personal attacks, name calling and hard feelings.
So now that everyone has had a chance to have their say, lets close this one as well.
Surprise! no one won the argument on the internet.
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