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What about mod support on GeForce Now? I think it would be an easy fix that allows a huge community to play this game who otherwise couldn't afford the required hardware. I wrote more about a fix in the respective thread.
My main concern is the lack of communication. I'm just waiting and can't play the game this way. I want to plan, and for this, I need to know if I should keep my founders membership and just wait for an eventual fix, or if you're not interested in that, so I'll have to look for other solutions, discard my membership and invest the money into a GPU.
By the way, FSR 3 frame gen would make a huge difference as well, enabling me to play the game on my old GPU. It's another way to gain a larger target audience and fan base.
Please communicate what we can expect. Since the beach DLC, you've done a good job with course corrections on a management level.
My main concern is the lack of communication. I'm just waiting and can't play the game this way. I want to plan, and for this, I need to know if I should keep my founders membership and just wait for an eventual fix, or if you're not interested in that, so I'll have to look for other solutions, discard my membership and invest the money into a GPU.
By the way, FSR 3 frame gen would make a huge difference as well, enabling me to play the game on my old GPU. It's another way to gain a larger target audience and fan base.
Please communicate what we can expect. Since the beach DLC, you've done a good job with course corrections on a management level.
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I think the shelter cost went to zero, which caused the game to mark the households as homeless. Because homless NPC are being defined as NPC without shelter costs.
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It has been discussed a few times, it is not something CO can fix alone, it requires GFN to make changes to there platform; they are trying to work with GFN to sort that out.
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I am sorry, but this doesn't answer the questions which for the purpose of clarity I will raise again:
There are three values to be taken into consideration:
a) number of homeless people in the city
b) number of new households to spawn
c) number of available (in terms of costs, reachability etc) homes
"the limit to MovingInHouseholdCount" obviously limits the number of households which can be created at a given point in time. Else it wouldn't be a limit.
The question is
a) how high that limit will be
b) is it a fixed value (say 1000) or something based on percentages (say 5% of households already present in the city) or in which other way that limit will be determined?
Regardless of the way it is set, it is a LIMIT.
This means that at some point in time there will be a maximum number of MovingInHouseholdCount, which assumedly will be a combination of homeless households and new households (those which are about to spawn).
It seems obvious to me that this limit has to be checked against the available homes, apartments, you name it. And availability in this context is the combination of monetary costs, reachability, attractiveness, etc.
So, again the question is (numbers are just for illustration purposes):
a) if MovingInHouseholdCount = 1000 (<= said limit)
b) if number of homeless households = 2000
What does happen to "new households" then? Based on your words so far they seem to be put on hold, meaning they will NOT spawn. Futhermore, I assume that 1000 homeless households then are deciding to leave the city.
However, what does happen if the number of available homes = 3000? Does that impact MovingInHouseholdCount?
How often are MovingInHouseholdCount and the number of available homes checked against each other?
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co_avanya
Community Manager at Colossal Order
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- Jan 4, 2021
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I'm afraid I don't have an update on the situation, but Paradox and Nvidia are working on finding a solution and I'm sure that @Cities: Skylines Official will share it when they have news on the situation.
Your assumption isn't correct. The point is that fewer people will immigrate until homelessness reduces.
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This is what you were responding to:
"there will be a maximum number of MovingInHouseholdCount, which assumedly will be a combination of homeless households and new households (those which are about to spawn)."
Of course my assumption is correct as it was explicitely stated:
A limit to MovingInHouseholdCount means that it will have a maximum number which is exactly what I said.
From the name of that variable we can deduce that it will be a combination of all households which want to establish themselves in our city. Assumedly this will be the result of "homeless households" (willing to move into a new home) plus "new households" (those which are about to spawn in the city and are NOT homeless households).
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That's just inaccurate, plainly wrong. Nvidia doesn't have to get involved. I explained this in the respective thread. It's purely a question of not exiting the binary when restarting the game after applying the mods, or alternatively prefetching the mods before launching the game (i.e. how other Paradox-moddable games work with the Paradox Launcher). Two easy fixes that don't require Nvidia to change their whole infrastructure just for one game. Sure, it might be possible to do it this way if they save the downloaded mod folder, though the issue would remain that any changes to the mods would require exiting the session. Change in mod order, mod updates, different preset, everything would lead to a reset. And for some users, resets mean that they have to wait minutes or hours to get a new session.
Don't expect anything from Nvidia here. They didn't even fix Cyberpunk HDR for over half a year, are completely understaffed and don't listen to community feedback. If Nvidia is the answer, I know that modding support will not arrive. That workshop mods work on GFN is purely coincidental because no one exists in this company to care until there's some severe security issue. They don't even care about minor security issues such as stolen accounts that are stored on their infrastructure if you save the login.
There have been contradictory inconsistent statements from the team and community but nothing official. Nvidia would be the worst option to pick here. If they have some sort of policy that says "avoid binary modding where it's feasible", so be it, communicate it and we'll find other solutions.
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Good update, especially liking the part where dogs won't go to school or work anymore. They've been a nuisance at mass transit. Hopefully you also checked the formula on how many dogs a household can have. I am a dog person, but I believe 9 dogs in one family is a bit much?
@co_avanya Will you be adding a proper information about homeless too? Right now we don't have any information on how many homeless people we got.
@co_avanya Will you be adding a proper information about homeless too? Right now we don't have any information on how many homeless people we got.
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Two months waiting for this patch. By extrapolating I think the game should be playable by end 2025
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This is what I meant. Some uninformed and unofficial chatter (not trying to blame you for trying to communicate, which is appreciated a lot). I assume it's been briefly mentioned on some backchannel, Discord or whatever, and that's what kept spreading the notion that "we won't fix it because only Nvidia can". I guess some person was asked who doesn't see it as a priority and who doesn't have a clue of what the issue on GFN is or how GFN even works. So let's delegate it. Nvidia will tell us the answer, it's their business model after all. Why wouldn't they care?
Nvidia doesn't care about GFN. They don't care about gaming anymore. It's all about AI and enterprise clients now. GFN is just as old as the Nvidia SHIELD as its main platform. A 2015 platform that has barely seen significant investments since then, just minor adjustments to keep it alive because it's somewhat profitable and because the server infrastructure is required either way for business clients, for AI training etc.
See, I get it. If I don't have full control over the contributing factors, the comfortable thing to not deal with an issue is delegation until everything is communicated. It's a comfortable way of ignoring issues because sometimes, a solution would depend on workarounds that don't actually fix the root cause. Investing more time just because someone else is "lazy". It's not the case here though, unless I'm completely mistaken. And I think it's in Paradox's interest to reach a larger audience since the hardware is a limiting factor here. Maybe they see it differently, looking at console sales of an unmoddable CSL1. But maybe the DLC sales on these consoles flopped as well and the lack of modding support might be the reason. Consoles are affordable gaming. There's a huge increase in mobile gaming, Steam Deck etc. There's a market that remains locked out by not fully supporting accessible hardware. CSL without mods is like playing a demo version, getting a hint of what's possible but not having access to all gameplay features.
I would ask the question how the demographics of potential city builders look like. Are they enthusiast PC owners who play Cyberpunk and all the AAA games regularly, so of course they own a high-end GPU. Or are they rather indie gamers who don't feel like a high-end GPU is worth it, or they can't afford it all with inflation etc.? There's been so much bad PR when the game released. This reputation sticks to the game as something that requires better hardware than Cyberpunk. Even though it's based on Unity and doesn't even utilize ray tracing. I'm worried this game won't reach its full potential. You can see it here in the comment sections, the frustration remains. And it's not like the game has been fixed to a state where it runs on cheap GPUs now. I can't play it on my GTX 1080 because I can't stand low fps rates of 20ish or just how it looks like a ten years old game on lowest settings. Unless Unity receives a magic update that fixes all sorts of performance issues (which it had with CSL1 as well), I don't think that consoles will be a turning point for this game. To market it on GFN specifically would be unconventional, I have to admit, since Nvidia doesn't care like Microsoft or Sony care about their platforms. It's possible that Nvidia randomly cancels the whole service. I still think it's the best compromise for the time being. And Nvidia not caring about locking out mods like Sony and Microsoft do can also be an upside here, since it's possible to fix the modding issue in house.
It's not about us few players who keep complaining. If anything, it should be part of a strategy to reach a larger player base; to provide an answer to all those folks who keep spreading the idea that this game is the new "But can it run Crysis?".
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This all looks great, looking forward to checking it out later.
On Homelessness - would be great if you could add a household/cim count to the stats graph.
On Homelessness - would be great if you could add a household/cim count to the stats graph.
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I believe you don't understand how GFN works if you think it's an easy fix.
If Stadia couldn't do it in 2 years of spending millions on games, you believe NVidia wants to do that on a service that is not their priority anymore?
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Glad you've send the patch out!
I just launched my saved city, and found pathfind system seems better than before. I'll wait for a moment to find how everything goes.
Before: HouseholdFindPropertySystem kept increasing because the homeless want to find homes.
Now: HouseholdFindPropertySystem occasionally increase and there are two query types that is findhome->currentlocation and currentlocation->findhome.
Edit: Please pay attention to your city income! It seems homeless were moving out, and you lost labor, thus you've lost income from homeless that have no home but have job. My city is losing over 1 million. This might not be a bug, but rather frustrating. Also the hotel no lodging bug seems still exists.
I just launched my saved city, and found pathfind system seems better than before. I'll wait for a moment to find how everything goes.
Before: HouseholdFindPropertySystem kept increasing because the homeless want to find homes.
Now: HouseholdFindPropertySystem occasionally increase and there are two query types that is findhome->currentlocation and currentlocation->findhome.
Edit: Please pay attention to your city income! It seems homeless were moving out, and you lost labor, thus you've lost income from homeless that have no home but have job. My city is losing over 1 million. This might not be a bug, but rather frustrating. Also the hotel no lodging bug seems still exists.
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Please actually read and take this feedback to heart.
The Decorator Patch:
-There's no search bar? Mods have it. Dev mode has it.
-There's no visible prop names? Mods have it. Dev mode has it.
-There's hundreds of missing props? Mods have them. Dev mode has them.
-The props can't be overlapped, at all? Not even rocks or bushes? Mods can do that.
-The props are forced to point upward, meaning rocks placed on a slope don't actually place on the slope? Mods can do that.
What is the purpose of making props a vanilla feature if they still REQUIRE mods to use? What does a mod user- of which you have thousands upon thousands- actually get out of this update?
The Homeless "Fix":
-The entire system needs an overhaul.
-This should've simply fixed the homeless getting stuck- save changing how it all works for when you are actually committed to finishing the changes properly.
-There's still no UI means of actually understanding what's happening with hoemlessness. We've been telling you since launch that the game needs to provide this kind of information in many menus and for many features and you just don't provide it.
The other fixes:
-These are not big enough fixes to justify the Homeless fix being rolled into them and not released as a hotfix. This is not a big patch.
-We're dead tired of getting small patches that barely affect the actual game experience.
-It's disheartening when things like "People have 50 dogs and take them everywhere" takes 10 months to fix. Priorities seem all over the place.
The Game's Development in General:
-10 months with no assets, and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
-10 months of no UE delivery, and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
-All content delayed, over and over, with no real timeframe
-Q3 ends in under a month and content promised for Q3 is nowhere to be seen, and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
-Radio silence between patches, and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
-Base game features are still missing, lacking, or broken by the hundreds (Citizen animations, citizen designs and appearances, park functionality, tourism, industrial taxes influencing production chains outside of specialized industries, snow coverage, road wear visibility, the 2500 assets teased the week of launch, etc etc), and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
This has to stop. We need real, legitimate, humble communication. You have to tell us what you're doing. This game will be a year old soon and we still don't have a viable proper base game experience. This game is not at a reasonable 1.0 yet. It is still very much in early access. Early access games owe their players proper communication and timelines. PLEASE.
The Decorator Patch:
-There's no search bar? Mods have it. Dev mode has it.
-There's no visible prop names? Mods have it. Dev mode has it.
-There's hundreds of missing props? Mods have them. Dev mode has them.
-The props can't be overlapped, at all? Not even rocks or bushes? Mods can do that.
-The props are forced to point upward, meaning rocks placed on a slope don't actually place on the slope? Mods can do that.
What is the purpose of making props a vanilla feature if they still REQUIRE mods to use? What does a mod user- of which you have thousands upon thousands- actually get out of this update?
The Homeless "Fix":
-The entire system needs an overhaul.
-This should've simply fixed the homeless getting stuck- save changing how it all works for when you are actually committed to finishing the changes properly.
-There's still no UI means of actually understanding what's happening with hoemlessness. We've been telling you since launch that the game needs to provide this kind of information in many menus and for many features and you just don't provide it.
The other fixes:
-These are not big enough fixes to justify the Homeless fix being rolled into them and not released as a hotfix. This is not a big patch.
-We're dead tired of getting small patches that barely affect the actual game experience.
-It's disheartening when things like "People have 50 dogs and take them everywhere" takes 10 months to fix. Priorities seem all over the place.
The Game's Development in General:
-10 months with no assets, and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
-10 months of no UE delivery, and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
-All content delayed, over and over, with no real timeframe
-Q3 ends in under a month and content promised for Q3 is nowhere to be seen, and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
-Radio silence between patches, and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
-Base game features are still missing, lacking, or broken by the hundreds (Citizen animations, citizen designs and appearances, park functionality, tourism, industrial taxes influencing production chains outside of specialized industries, snow coverage, road wear visibility, the 2500 assets teased the week of launch, etc etc), and nothing but "We have no timeframe"
This has to stop. We need real, legitimate, humble communication. You have to tell us what you're doing. This game will be a year old soon and we still don't have a viable proper base game experience. This game is not at a reasonable 1.0 yet. It is still very much in early access. Early access games owe their players proper communication and timelines. PLEASE.
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Given my education and experience, I think I do. I'm the dev who modded the GFN Android app to support rumble on third-party controllers. Easy fix, Nvidia just didn't care or some manager thought "let's intentionally lock out rumble even though we officially support those third-party controllers, that'll make players buy our outdated controller with poor battery life" (never happened). I eventually gave up on this when a major update released and their code obfuscation was just annoying, which made updates increasingly complicated.
Stadia isn't comparable to GFN. Stadia was a "cloud console". They had in house devs, changed the games to run on their mediocre hardware, with the latency and mediocre fidelity remaining. This business model didn't have potential. You had to buy every game separately from them. It was close to SaaS because every game was tailored to their infrastructure and could only be played on it. GFN is more like you're renting a VM that restricts what you can run, and that's ephemeral. You bring your own games to it, but they have to be whitelisted first. It's closer to PaaS.
Regardless, I don't understand what you mean by "what Stadia couldn't do in 2 years". They didn't use Steam Workshop. Sure, there's no way to expect Nvidia introducing their own modding hub (like Paradox Mods or Nexus). But it's not necessary. You get a VM that runs a specific executable and exits when the executable terminates. That's the industry standard. That's how containers, Kubernetes, App-V, etc. work with their ephemeral modes. That's how Microsoft RDS can be configured to reset a session. Just to name the services I've personally used in my career. I'm sure it's similar with Citrix or whatever Nvidia uses for virtualization and/or orchestration. So, no, I don't expect anything from Nvidia here. Their involvement isn't necessary.
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