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Dear All,

I understan that all the above debate on parallel computing is very stimulating. Nevertheless, while we wait for new improvement from the Devs, I still wonder if there are some "tweaks" or workaround that can help the average player to deal with the late game slowdown. I am really curious to know if anybody has an answer to my former questions. Just for your convenience, let me quote myself.

Best
You have plenty of options
Stellaris immortal mod for current version.
2.3.3 i use alphamod.
2.0.5 is super fast
1.9.1 is fast.
 
It's highly alarming to read your post suggesting nobody seems to be offering workaround solutions, whilst also admitting that you haven't read through the available material.

On the first page of this thread there are at least three posts that should provide food for thought:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/performance-megathread.1253705/#post-25868197
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/performance-megathread.1253705/#post-25870082
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/performance-megathread.1253705/#post-25870654

Thank you, very much. It would be very convenient if these kind of information would be summarized or pinned somewhere. It is a bit weird to read that, for the average player, reading more than 700 posts should be a basic requirement.
 
One youtuber took it into late game and here are his thoughts on what may be causing slowdowns:

Coincidentally, the one game I played with the worst performance also was primarily caused by a driven assimilator with loads of different types of pops. When I deleted it using console commands it had an outsized impact on improving performance. Much more than when I tried deleting a similar amount of pops and fleets from other empires.

Honestly it does not make much sense to me. When I play the "flesh is weak" path, I normally end up with only one type fo pop, since eveybody is assimilated as the same type of synt. Nevertheless the late game becomes slow as usual (more or less).
 
Within a year Stellaris moved from the the top of Paradox Big Three to the bottom. Even obvious leader - Hearts of Iron IV lost to Stellaris in the beginning, but now Stellaris have less concurrent players than Europa universalis IV, which had a stable playerbase for years. But Stellaris had spikes, mostly from patches but then concurrent players drop just as fast as they grow, which is not happening to EUIV or HoIIV(save for free weekends).
And the issue becomes obvious because both HoIIV and EUIV concurrent players are GROWING with each year and Stellaris playersbase only shinked
SllirI0.png
 
Hi,

I have read quite a bit of this thread (not all of it, I admit). As far as I understand the performance issue had been widely discussed. Still it seems to me that nobody tried to provide a second-best solution. Ater reading, I still have a couple of questions

1) Let us assume we want to improve late game performance at the cost of giving up some features; which of these fix would you suggest as the most effective?

- A) Do not use all the DLC. Still, which DLC do you feel affects the most late game performance?
- B) Play a small galaxy, ok... how much smaller than the average one?
- C) Someghing else: please articulate.

2) Do you think giving up stellaris soundtrack can improve performance? Usually I listen my music while playing and I would be happy to give up in game sounds/music completely; unfortunately no such option is available. What do you thind about it?

I thank you in advance for any suggestion.

1A: No/Minimum impact - use all dlc.
1B: Galaxy size is used to limit the AI. The bottleneck is pop numbers late game even on a tiny galaxy once many habitats start coming up you're done for! So on any game you have limited time before it crawls to a stop. Playing without trade or migration also helps (gestalts/machines), Purging/glassing others also helps tons.
1C: Use stellaris Immortal MOD. Don't overload your game with many mods, especially ones that add more pop jobs and larger planets/colonies.

2:Completely irrelevant has no effect on game performance.
 
1A: No/Minimum impact - use all dlc.
1B: Galaxy size is used to limit the AI. The bottleneck is pop numbers late game even on a tiny galaxy once many habitats start coming up you're done for! So on any game you have limited time before it crawls to a stop. Playing without trade or migration also helps (gestalts/machines), Purging/glassing others also helps tons.
1C: Use stellaris Immortal MOD. Don't overload your game with many mods, especially ones that add more pop jobs and larger planets/colonies.

2:Completely irrelevant has no effect on game performance.

Thank you.
 
I want to make this absolutely clear: I am not making this post out of impatience. I know this is going to be hard work and the development team have a lot to do to get this done. My question is more for clarity. I don't think this was ever mentioned on the earlier Dev Diary beyond telling us a portion of the team is being dedicated to iron these problems out.

If and when the performance and AI fixes become ready, will they be released as soon as they're able, or will they be holding these until the Federations DLC launches?

Keep up the good work of fixing these issues. I've hardly been able to play this game for any length of time since 2.2, and I've been wanting to get back into it along with my friends.
 
But nine women on nine different planets will have nine times the children than nine women on one planet o_O

How about overclocking a woman to have 2 or more babies at a time? I need more of that in my Stellaris games dammit!.
/thread derailed
But the issue here is about the time it takes to get 1 Child/game tick.

Could the stupid analogy please stop. It's offensive.
How is it stupid?
It perfeclty ilustrates that some things just take the time they take. And that Multitaksing or -threading is not the magical bullet people make it out to be.

- C) Someghing else: please articulate.
The ability to mod in new Gateway like Bypass Networks.
Point to Point Bypasses (Wormholes) and Point to Hub (L-Gate) are not that bad. So adding more with modding is not a problem.

I did think of a way to speed up the Pathfinding a lot - but only if there is only a single point to many point network:

Possible Solution:
Part of the reason I started this, is to talk about a possible solution I came up with.

First, we have the static network.
That would first include the Hyperlanes. But it will also include the B and C class networks eventually.
B Class are a pretty clear addition to the static list. As I said, eventually everyone will be able to pass them. So having the ability to use them is basically the default state. If you really can not afford the check, you could even just have 2 static networks - one for those with the tech and one for those without it.
C Class is true for the same reason. Once Activated, the network is "open source". And the extra paths are marginal (<10 to the Terminus System, 1 for <10 Systems).
D Class I will ignore for now.

The thing is that we do not (nessearily) need to know wich path through the gateway network is the fastest. We only need to know if the path through any 2 gateways is faster then using hyperlanes. So you would calculate two paths:
a) a path using only the static network
b) a path from the start and end points to the nearest useable A Class Gateway respectively. The distance between any 2 gateway Systems is 0 or 1 jump.
And then you just pick wichever path is shorter.

A advancement would be to calculate both in paralell. If you do that, you would not even need to calculate each of them to it's end. If one finishes, the other can stop the moment it would end up with a longer path.
If you know that the Static Network can get you there in 7 Jumps, once your gateway path reaches at least 8 jumps it is pointless to even look at it anymore.

2) Do you think giving up stellaris soundtrack can improve performance? Usually I listen my music while playing and I would be happy to give up in game sounds/music completely; unfortunately no such option is available. What do you thind about it?
Soundtrack has no impact on Performance. This stuff has been multitasked, before multitasking OS'es were even a thing.
The soundcard hardware deals with all that plumbing.

We have tasks that are grouped so that they are trivially completed without being dependent on each other. We call them "planets", and they create a situation that can be considered embarrassingly parallel. 200 colonized planets should trivially scale to 200 entirely separate threads (if desired) that only need to by synced to a few global gamestate conditions once during the intra-month period. There's zero reason for pop jobs to be slowing down the game with free CPU time available.
And then you loose all that performance gain and then some on the CPU, OS and game having to manage 200 Threads.
Congrats. You just made the code more complex/prone to error. More memory demanding. And most importantly, slower.

Do not feel bad. That is literally the easiest, most common mistake of Multitasking and -threading.
Seriously, it is among my top 5 responses by count on StackOverflow.

And btw, very important things about the planet that affect other planets can change anytime in the month. Stuff like being occupied, for example.
 
I want to make this absolutely clear: I am not making this post out of impatience. I know this is going to be hard work and the development team have a lot to do to get this done. My question is more for clarity. I don't think this was ever mentioned on the earlier Dev Diary beyond telling us a portion of the team is being dedicated to iron these problems out.
Fixing a performance issue is like fixing a race condition:
90% finding it.
10% fixing it.

Except this time once you solve one bottleneck, another will raise it's head. Fighting perforamnce issues is like trying to fight Marvels Hydra.
 
Fixing a performance issue is like fixing a race condition:
90% finding it.
10% fixing it.

Except this time once you solve one bottleneck, another will raise it's head. Fighting perforamnce issues is like trying to fight Marvels Hydra.

Your comments are very interesting. Since I started playing Stellaris a bit of time ago I know that, at that time, performance was not a big issue. Performance issues appeared as a side effect of new versions/DLC/Expansions.

It seems that, either the design of specific DLCs was flawed or all the DLC/Expansions development process is flawed. Recently we have installed few new versions/DLC without any significant improvement in the performance perceived by players. Given the point we are, do you think a feasible effort of the developing team might be enough to solve the issue? If the effort needed is overwhelming it might be better to just give up the idea of playing this game.

Up to now we kept playing Stellaris and buying/installing new DLC. As we all know, Einstein is credit to have said: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”
 
Your comments are very interesting. Since I started playing Stellaris a bit of time ago I know that, at that time, performance was not a big issue. Performance issues appeared as a side effect of new versions/DLC/Expansions.
That they did not make a Megathread does not mean the amount of posts was much less.
People complaind about performance on every. Fricking. Version. Yes, even the ones that only existed for a few days and 1.7, wich never made it out of Beta/was merged into 1.8.

Your theory only works out if Performance was the only thing that maters.
In Reality, the Dev team has to also Fix bugs and keep the rest of us happy by adding new Content. And also justify their continued exitence/workpower&salary being bound up in this product that was released close to 4 years ago (May 2019).
Also a half dozen other things.

The part of Narnia you live, in where fixing your problem is the only thing Stellaris Devs have to deal with sounds really nice. Indeed, I bet that the Devs would love to move there right now :D
But unfortunately, this not Narnia. This is reality.
 
That they did not make a Megathread does not mean the amount of posts was much less.
People complaind about performance on every. Fricking. Version. Yes, even the ones that only existed for a few days and 1.7, wich never made it out of Beta/was merged into 1.8.

Your theory only works out if Performance was the only thing that maters.
In Reality, the Dev team has to also Fix bugs and keep the rest of us happy by adding new Content. And also justify their continued exitence/workpower&salary being bound up in this product that was released close to 4 years ago (May 2019).
Also a half dozen other things.

The part of Narnia you live, in where fixing your problem is the only thing Stellaris Devs have to deal with sounds really nice. Indeed, I bet that the Devs would love to move there right now :D
But unfortunately, this not Narnia. This is reality.

When I went to the steam page of stellaris the first time , there were 10 rec, 9 how.good the game was , 1 that performance sucked .

I think ppl have the right to complain about that , but they should be in no way surprised.

2 things were clear with stellaris from the start , that the game would change ,and that performance would have been a problem .

Its no secret that the dev siad that he would be able to fix all performance , if he could remove features . I think we all remember when they removed FTL alternatives how it was accepted .
 
Fixing a performance issue is like fixing a race condition:
90% finding it.
10% fixing it.

Except this time once you solve one bottleneck, another will raise it's head. Fighting perforamnce issues is like trying to fight Marvels Hydra.

Except major part of Stellaris performance issues is about algorithm selection and implementation. Job calculations are done every tick even when 99.99% of those calculations are unnecessary. They chose most trivial, straightforward and lowest performance way to implement it. It's like using bubble sort algorithm. It's very easy to implement, but it performs terribly with medium to large data sets. Low performance of Stellaris is mostly not a bug, it's design decision to cut costs.

So in this particular case it's:

0.1% finding it
99.9% Implementing it again from scratch.
 
That they did not make a Megathread does not mean the amount of posts was much less.
Your theory only works out if Performance was the only thing that maters.
In Reality, the Dev team has to also Fix bugs and keep the rest of us happy by adding new Content.
The part of Narnia you live, in where fixing your problem is the only thing Stellaris Devs have to deal with sounds really nice. Indeed, I bet that the Devs would love to move there right now :D
But unfortunately, this not Narnia. This is reality.

Sorry, I don't want to be misunderstood. I appreciate the work of Devs: I love the fact that they borrowed a lot fo the ideas I like from the Sci-Literature (Ringworlds, Titans, Death Stars, Telepathy, etc); i still miss the possibility to see Asimov's immortal telepathic Robots but I can endure without them.

I am aware that in real word trade-offs do always exist and If the only way to cope with performance issues is "giving up something" then, in my humble opinion, it should be done.

I understand that in a world of finite computational power there are constraints. I also understand that Devs, like every worker, deserve to be paid. Nevertheless, an unplayable game cannot be played; therefore if there is not a way to fix the performance issues without “destroying” the game or without asking the Devs to work for free, then there is not a "feasible" way the make the game playable again. Hence, just to make it cristal clear, an unplayable game, by definition, cannot be played.

Some people might be willing to buy an unplayable game. Time will tell us how many of these people do exist.

By the way, I just finished to build a new addition to my golden castle in Narnia. There are many empty rooms, feel free to be my guest as often as you like. I can assure you it is a pretty fun place. ;)
 
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Job calculations are done every tick even when 99.99% of those calculations are unnecessary. They chose most trivial, straightforward and lowest performance way to implement it
And their tests showed it is still not a relevant bottleneck, comapred to pathfinding through gateways.

At best this is among the top 5 options for "Stellaris Code next bottleneck".

Nevertheless, an unplayable game cannot be played;
That is a Tautology.
Also you just deciding "it is unplayable, all other opinions are invalid."
 
And their tests showed it is still not a relevant bottleneck, comapred to pathfinding through gateways.
That is a Tautology.
Also you just deciding "it is unplayable, all other opinions are invalid."

In my humble opinion human life is finite. Therefore I believe that a game that might take more than a lifetime to be played could be described as "unplayable for a human being". The time needed for a new game to reach the end got longer and longer over time. If this trend will go on, sooner or later, a single human life might not be enough to play it.
Maybe you are one of the lucky ones that does not face this kind of constraints. In this case, as I said before, you are very welcome to be my guest in Narnia. ;)