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Playing as "Courtiers"

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I think an interesting new feature they could implement is playing as "landless" (you probably have land but it's not represented on the map) vassals. If we apply the model of CK1, this would be impossible. However; with the new engine, I think it could be possible if they change the very way you start a scenario. Instead of selecting a Kingdom, Duchy, County and whatever new tiers they add (I hope!), one should select a dynasty from the screen. You'd then be given a list of individuals within said dynasty, and upon clicking one of the individuals, it lists his titles for you. This way you know both the dynasty you're playing as, but as well the individual, his titles, etc. This also could make it possible to select "landless" individuals whom probably want to raise their position.

Thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. :)
 
KaiserChicken said:
Considering that most of the fun comes from territorial management and war between realms (at least to me), I would personally find that model uninteresting.
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While that aspect holds appeal for many, it's important to note that much of the fun of CK (for me and many others I've observed on these boards) was scheming against fellow vassals for the crown of your realm, or inheriting another crown via blood relation, or just scheming for the sake of it. While war and territorial management could be fun, this was more dominant in EU3 and other Paradox games, with CK instead being a buildup to those actions.

I think this could be fun and also fits the spirit of CK.
 
This model was implemented in several of the "Romance of the Three Kingdom" iterations from KOEI and I found it always a VERY welcome addition.

Playing as an Advisor was both more challenging and satisfying than directly ruling a vast kingdom.
 
This is an interesting idea, and would be extremely interesting, but the hard part would be scheming to get land/titles in the first place. How would that be represented?
 
Alerias said:
This model was implemented in several of the "Romance of the Three Kingdom" iterations from KOEI and I found it always a VERY welcome addition.

Playing as an Advisor was both more challenging and satisfying than directly ruling a vast kingdom.
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Indeed. There's many examples in history of this very thing happening, so it's not just a fantastical suggestion. Advisers play a crucial role in history and often could end up with titles themselves.

sauron_33 said:
This is an interesting idea, and would be extremely interesting, but the hard part would be scheming to get land/titles in the first place. How would that be represented?
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I'm not entirely sure, to be honest. I think if they keep the friends and rivals systems it could be a good idea to become a friend to the right people. It wouldn't be easy for sure, but I do think it could be possible. Like I said, any suggestions or additions are quite welcome as I lack the full picture myself :eek:o.
 
Alerias said:
This model was implemented in several of the "Romance of the Three Kingdom" iterations from KOEI and I found it always a VERY welcome addition.

Playing as an Advisor was both more challenging and satisfying than directly ruling a vast kingdom.
Click to expand...

I agree, and do not know of any other PC games out there (except for the Asia-only PC versions of the RTK 7, 8 and 10) that allow you to view the gameworld from so many wholly different perspectives. It would be very interesting to play the game this way, and the feudal system makes this quite possible.
 
monsterfurby said:
I agree, and do not know of any other PC games out there (except for the Asia-only PC versions of the RTK 7, 8 and 10) that allow you to view the gameworld from so many wholly different perspectives. It would be very interesting to play the game this way, and the feudal system makes this quite possible.
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I thought those were released in the US too? Would any of those mechanics from those games work in CK2? I've played RTK 2 or 3, a very long time ago, but it didn't have that mechanism in it.
 
ohnoitsalex said:
Such a good idea - I often found myself wishing for this feature when playing Crusader Kings 1.

If only you had created this thread as a poll.
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I probably should've, yes. At the very least I think they could implement selecting your dynasty and individual instead of your county/duchy/kingdom.
 
I think it's doable as such but it probably will be quite dull to play an advisor unless they come up with a way to significantly extend the certain parts of the game. A too high proportion of gameplay is related to owning a title as of CK1 to make playing an advisor fun - without changes it would mostly be passive wait for events.
 
From a mechanical perspective, there are a number of ways to "scheme for land and titles."

One of the more obvious ways would be to try to win sufficient favor from your liege that he would grant you one of his - or alternatively, to somehow build up a power-base that you could use to launch a coup. The Strategium article implied that courtiers can now have influence over an AI ruler's decisions, as well, so in theory you could set yourself up as the power behind the throne.

Under elective law, this becomes even easier, as you now have the option of trying to make yourself more likely to be elected when the current ruler dies (and/or making the current ruler die when you are more likely to be elected)

A major problem here would be resources. Courtiers need some way to generate gold that's not directly tied to province ownership for this to be workable.
 
Galle said:
A major problem here would be resources. Courtiers need some way to generate gold that's not directly tied to province ownership for this to be workable.
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This could be resolved EU Rome style where wealth is accumulated partly based on what job an individual holds (or from "holdings"). So that advisors received some type of income based on position.

You could expand that to reward the Martial (or any other army leader) with gold for their victories...especially on a crusade.

Outside of that I really like the idea of being able to play as a courtier when I get my butt kicked and lose land and title. It would allow you to still play to regain power or see if a descendant could. Even if you couldn't play, but just wait for time to pass and see if your family regains power...I think that would still be interesting.
 
It would be a very interesting way to play the game, I expect they could do something along the lines of Governments in exile ala HOI3. The only trouble would be relying on the AI to give you a title at some point or other.
 
I have a suggestion, and if we as a courtier had the option of going to other realms to be advisers of other kings our friends, more inclined to help us climb, or generals in the armies of the "Reconquista" of the Iberian Peninsula or in the Crusades and thus be rewarded with money, titles, lands or even their daughters as wifes for helping them.

That is how my country, Portugal, initially formed.

I will give you a bit of our history that support my sugestion:
The father of our first king was Henry of Burgundy brother of Hugh I, Duke of Burgundy and Eudes I, Duke of Burgundy, that as a younger son had no chance to reach a title, so he came to the Iberian Peninsula to help in the "Reconquista" and to gain land, and eventually he won a county called the county of Portugal and the daughter of the King León and Castile as a wife.

And like this situation many others occurred throughout history, so it would be realistic enough to introduce this.
 
This si something ive always wanted, that if you lose
and im going to quote what i said on the 3 things youd like to see list so sorry ive yourve read it before but i wrote it better there then i can in my current state of mind

2. More court politics, barons representation, estates, needing vassals and barons support to enact decisions etc, and if your lose all your titles being able to continue the game as a court member, managing your dynasties marriages and fortunes but politically just being one vote on the council and commanding any armies headed by your dynasty in your realms armies until such a time as your family as proven itself enough to be granted titles and land.

that if you lose your land, instead of losing the game, you continue to head your dynasty, but in terms of politics you are reduced to a vote in a court [or however many of your dynasty members are in the court possibly more than one but you get the point]
and then you have to struggle to get the prestige to be awarded land by your lord

it'd be fun
 
I would love to play as just a marshall/courtier or something. Maybe even a lordless knight, with a mercenary army that works for the highest bidder, going around and having bastard children with ladies of the court before escaping toward my next conquest!

Dear gosh, this could become the ultimate sandbox role-playing strategy game ever...
 
Typhoon03 said:
I have a suggestion, and if we as a courtier had the option of going to other realms to be advisers of other kings our friends, more inclined to help us climb, or generals in the armies of the "Reconquista" of the Iberian Peninsula or in the Crusades and thus be rewarded with money, titles, lands or even their daughters as wifes for helping them.

That is how my country, Portugal, initially formed.

I will give you a bit of our history that support my sugestion:
The father of our first king was Henry of Burgundy brother of Hugh I, Duke of Burgundy and Eudes I, Duke of Burgundy, that as a younger son had no chance to reach a title, so he came to the Iberian Peninsula to help in the "Reconquista" and to gain land, and eventually he won a county called the county of Portugal and the daughter of the King León and Castile as a wife.

And like this situation many others occurred throughout history, so it would be realistic enough to introduce this.
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Your post reminded me of Edgar the Aetheling for some reason. Certainly trying to regain the Anglo-Saxon throne as Edgar would be quite a game. It'd also be far more satisfying then just playing as his descendants who in time likely would've lost their claim very easily.
 
I support the idea and am sure it will be lots of fun. The idea I think is not just about being landless or not. If a family member having a post in a court can bring some gameplay options; such as accessing extra decision making possibilities in the army as the marshal, or in diplomacy as the chancellor, that would upon up many possibilities. Remember, you don't control a single person, but the entire family. So, you are a count in your realm, and your brother gets to be a marshal in your liege's army; so you gain some limited control in his army too; or something to that effect. Would be very exciting.
 
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