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Captain
Nov 20, 2000
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freibier.htu.tuwien.ac.at
Hello! I've just received my copy a few days ago and experimented playing the smaller nations a bit. Everything worked fine, except when I played the Aztec empire - their research is not working. While money (and other effects) add to the research bar, whenever it reaches the end I only get the message that a new level has been researched while really the game starts to research the same level again (and I do not gain the technology involved). Is this a bug or a feature?
(if it is meant to be a feature, since the Indians were technologically backwards - couldn't that rather have been done with making research more expensive?)
 
Unfortunately it´s a feature intended to prevent noneuropean powers thwarting European dreams of grandeur. In partial compensation, some powers like China have HUGE armies. I don´t know exactly what nations do not have techadvance - I tried Sibir (located east of the Ural mountains) and they CAN research tech :).
But don´t worry about the Aztecs: As far as I know one can edit also, whether nations like the Aztecs get techadvances. I didn´t try that yet, though, and so I don´t know how it´s exactly done. I hope some of the betatesters will jump in to clarify this further...

Hartmann
 
Hmm, I was curious and just checked the inc-files (because any parameters which could make a difference should be found here). Unfortunately there is no tech on/off parameter among the various country stats. The only difference I noted between countries with advancing tech and countries without is that the latter are always pagan. So we could at least try setting the Aztecs to Shiite and look whether they will have advancing tech then (I would do it, but right now don´t have the time). If it is hardcoded, that countries located in certain regions cannot have advancing tech, then we will be screwed. :( I still hope, some of those who REALLY KNOW about this will reply within this thread....

Hartmann


[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 21-11-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Hartmann:
Hmm, I was curious and just checked the inc-files (because any parameters which could make a difference should be found here). Unfortunately there is no tech on/off parameter among the various country stats. The only difference I noted between countries with advancing tech and countries without is that the latter are always pagan. So we could at least try setting the Aztecs to Shiite and look whether they will have advancing tech then (I would do it, but right now don´t have the time). If it is hardcoded, that countries located in certain regions cannot have advancing tech, then we will be screwed. :( I still hope, some of those who REALLY KNOW about this will reply within this thread....

Hartmann


[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 21-11-2000).]
Click to expand...

In the original Boardgame, tech adavance was related to religion so it was logical to think that is the same in CG. So Changing to other religion could do the trick.
 
If Greywolf is right, then it´s easy. The five pagan nations are:

Aztecs
China
Incas
Iroquese
Japan

- Because they are no colonial nations, they don´t get conquistadors or explorers. I do not want to change this (colonial nation=yes would be pretty ahistorical).
- In recompense one should maybe edit the visible area for some of those countries to include a somewhat greater range (else, no fun).
- And one could think about giving them at least some colonists (colonists=? - I do not know what the numbers replacing the ? mean. They range from 2.0000/Portugal over 1.000000/France to 3.250000/Spain).
- All the pagan countries already have a merchant modifier >0 (btw. only Austria has 0. Is this o.k.?)

Hartmann

[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 21-11-2000).]
 
Changing the religion to shiite had no effect :(. What a pity, I had such nice ideas for scenarios in mind!
Does anyone know:

1. Exactly which nations do not have techadvances?
2. What MUST I edit to make techadvances available to them?

Regards, Hartmann
 
I tried playing the Iroquois in the beta.
The main problem was that they could never get any income and so could never build any armies.
Also there weren't any Hurons, Delawares etc to fight.

Also Paradox had a fantasy scenario in the beta - it wasn't very much fun imho. Perhaps Johan is saving it up as a magazine CD freebie.
 
If you look in db/revolt.txt you will see the definitions of the nations that can successfully revolt and declare independence. This includes all the regular nations of course.

Anyway, in this file you will find a parameter called 'group', which represents the technology group of the nation. Latin is best, then orthodox, then muslim. Exotic is worst and means no tech advances at all.

So, it could be possible to change the tech group for nations that declare independence, but my bet is that these values are overridden in the code.

/Doomie
 
Now this is really strange: In the revolt.txt countries which are perfectly playable (i.e. with advancing tech) like the Golden Horde or Sibir are listed with group=exotic. What are we to make of this?

Hartmann (*scratching his head*)

P.S.: It seems to me, that the game does not retrieve the 'group' information for a country from revolt.txt as long as it is not created by a successful revolt. This would explain, why Sibir does (thankfully) not have the 'exotic' tech level in the Grand Campaign. But from where does the game get the 'group' info by default - it´s not in the *.inc. IF ONLY JOHAN WOULD DROP IN TO SOLVE ALL THESE RIDDLES!

[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 22-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 22-11-2000).]
 
Exotic is the speed.

Some countries are hardcoded to never advance though no matter what.

/Johan
 
Aha! Thanx, Johan for clarifying. So we can forget about meddling with these countries. :( One last question, though: WHICH COUNTRIES? Is this list complete?:

Incas, Aztecs, Iroquese, China, Nippon

Hartmann
 
With my experience, only Incas (INC) and Aztecs (AZT) can never advance.

Maybe iroquois (OHI) too ...

China (CHI), Japan (NIP), Mysore (MYS), Hyderabad (HYD) and Mogol Empire (MOG) can.

------------------
Si vis pacem, para bellum
 
I had a go as Japan yesterday. While Japan could advance technologically, I could not promote bailiffs (chancellors? whatever...) even though I had the technology (and the money) for it. When I had 0 ducats, the game said I could not pay for it, when I had a thousand ducats, however, it still wouldn't work (the window to promote simply would not pop up).

About Incas/Aztecs/Iroquois not advancing at all.... if this is hardcoded, then why does their research work in the fantasia scenario? And is it planned to make these countries playable (though with slower research, of course...) in another patch?
 
Gorlin wrote:

'While Japan could advance technologically, I could not promote bailiffs (chancellors? whatever...) even though I had the technology (and the money) for it. When I had 0 ducats, the game said I could not pay for it, when I had a thousand ducats, however, it still wouldn't work (the window to promote simply would not pop up).'

Now THIS sounds more like a bug. Please mail it to bugs@europa-universalis.com

'About Incas/Aztecs/Iroquois not advancing at all.... if this is hardcoded, then why does their research work in the fantasia scenario?'

Probably in the Fantasy Scenario these are not the 'original' Aztecs but relocated and renamed European powers instead.

Hartmann
 
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