Holy Roman Empire League?
The HRE is also an IO. I'm with Oglesby, we don't need the UI to tell us that it's an IO, we just need the name of the IO.
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The HRE is also an IO. I'm with Oglesby, we don't need the UI to tell us that it's an IO, we just need the name of the IO.
What about Holy Roman Empire International Organization?
Regardless of how it will be (or not) presented in the UI, you still need to name what IOs are because it will appear in game, at least as a tooltip.
Mouse over HRE IO, tooltip appears: "The Holy Roman Empire is an International Organization. International Organizations are (...)"
With the current interface of Paradox games, I can not see them not explaining concepts like that.
League, compact, concordium whatever is much more generic than literal "international organizations"
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I don’t think that assumption is accurate. Why would we need a tooltip that tells us it’s an IO? That doesn’t give us any useful information since every IO has completely unique rules & implementations. I think it would be honestly more confusing to the average casual player to have personal unions, trade leagues, and the Shogunate linked somehow.
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That only works for IOs that are purely political in nature. Something like the Catholic Church, autocephalous patriarchates, or Crusades/Jihads are not "power blocs".
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Maybe it's just me, but I really do not mind that the name is anachronistic. It's just a game concept, not a real tangible thing, and the name communicates its meaning well enough for a modern audience. I don't see how it's any more immersion-breaking than the game telling you to "right-click to move your army"
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You wouldn't find it immersion-breaking if a tooltip told you to "right-click to move your platoon"?
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What I really dislike about EU4 is just how unrealistic the sounds of dying monarchs are.
Everyone knows that people don't make the "stability-loss.mp3" sound when they die.
How immersion breaking!!!
Everyone knows that people don't make the "stability-loss.mp3" sound when they die.
How immersion breaking!!!
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I did it earlier in this thread but will do it again.
Here are the common traits between all IO (per what has been stated)
- Contain one or more member country
- Have a button to access (called a control group)
- Formed in script instead of hard coded
- Must be predefined outside of the game
- Are not playable entitles / Do not count as countries
- Have a unique UI*
- Have a unique map mode*
- Exist as a design tool to add flavor
- Does not block access to other IO^
"^" = IO will be blocked access to multiple instances of the same IO. Cannot be part of two "Unions". Cannot be part of two Patriarchates.
Looking over that list I do not see a 'game concept' that needs to be defined in a tooltip.
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We do need the UI to tell us it's an IO, because new players won't all read the DDs.
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It’s a weird comparison because a platoon isn’t an army, or anything close to one. If the game was actually operating at platoon level I’d be fine with it. And BTW the word dates to basically the middle of the game’s timeline so it’s a particularly weird comparison.
IOs are clearly international organizations, at least in a non-technical sense of the phrase, it’s just a question of whether the name is too anachronistic. Personally I wasn’t a huge fan when it was first introduced but it’s grown on me over time and I kinda like it now. Not so much that I’m opposed to it changing, but enough that I don’t think any of the suggestions I’ve seen are better, and I think almost all are clearly worse.
You’re thinking too much about the backend development side. An International Organization is a grouping of countries which gives its members access to bespoke mechanics and interactions.
The game should tell people what things are. It’s wild to me that that’s a controversial statement.
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I disagree, but regardless of personal opinions on this design choice, this is the current UI approach Paradox has implemented across their recent titles including Victoria 3 and CK3 (can't remember if Imperator have thay).
The system relies on nested tooltips that explain various concepts, particularly basic ones.
And what concept is there to explain for an IO? “Multiple countries are part of this. It affects gamplay in some way. To learn how it affects gameplay, please look at the specific IO in question.”
Genuine, 100% serious question here. If you can provide a tooltip text for IO that provides useful information that wouldn’t be better explained by the specific IO, I’ll withdraw my objections.
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I am think as a designer, it is just that all the things common about IO are internal workings and not game concepts or mechanics.
It is one or more country (I am pretty when you call a Jihad or start a coalition solo with the hopes that others will join).
The mechanics are not limited to members as the 'owner' of the Tatar yoke is not a member but has to be tied to the mechanics/interactions.
It should be telling me about the Tatar Yoke, it does not need to let me know that it is one of the various bespoke mechanics.
Telling me that it is in the same group as Jihads, the HRE, or the Patriarchates implies that knowing that is it in the same group would be beneficial.
It shouldn't need to tell me that 'France' is a 'Country Name'
It shouldn't need to tell me that red is a 'Color'
It shouldn't need to tell me that a modifier is a 'Variable'
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This will be quite hard to find a better phrase, just because by the fact how much the world changes between the dynastic feudal game start to the absolutist centralisation into nation formation by the end game year.
3 of my suggesstions, which are probably totally ana hronistic, but which are immerssive enough for project ceaser:
-Res Nostra
-Societas Diplomatica
And another in lingua franca, which agruably played a bigger role in the PC timeframe compared to then dead language:
-Entité Diplomatique Légale / Accord d'Entité Diplomatique Légale
3 of my suggesstions, which are probably totally ana hronistic, but which are immerssive enough for project ceaser:
-Res Nostra
-Societas Diplomatica
And another in lingua franca, which agruably played a bigger role in the PC timeframe compared to then dead language:
-Entité Diplomatique Légale / Accord d'Entité Diplomatique Légale
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I am not bold enough to actually make a suggestion, but I am 100% sure that the only realistic options for terms other than "IO" will be from Legal/Ecclesiastical Latin.
We need to find nomenclature that is both historically relevant and descriptive for the hugely transformative time frame of 1337-1837.
As someone studying Political Science, I can say that St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas are very good candidates for literature pertaining to such terminology (this being a game centred on Europe, after all).
We need to find nomenclature that is both historically relevant and descriptive for the hugely transformative time frame of 1337-1837.
As someone studying Political Science, I can say that St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas are very good candidates for literature pertaining to such terminology (this being a game centred on Europe, after all).
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But it can tell you that France is a land-based country, linking the rules for that kind of entity.
And some IOs might appear or sound quite country-like (like the HRE) and giving some additional information about the type of entity just as a hovertip-hook is a viable use. Even though IOs do not share too many properties. And again, if basically every other entity's detail window states its type, then IOs should do, too.
The term is not optimal (hence this thread), but the concept is not completely useless to state.
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Common, be bold. What would Augustine & Aquinas call and name the Voltairs Nightmare, the Holy See and the Shogunate?
Hmmm, my guts are telling me we should also check Plato & Aristotle... greek city alliances, especially when formed againt foriegn threat should be a fertile ground for such phrases...
Btw any Hindu / Mandarin experts that could enlighten us with their exaples so we are not soooo europea universalum?
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This thread really is the modern incarnation of the Athenian Agora and Plato's Academy
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So any good suggesstions will be met either with exile, poision or ignorance.... at least till we are getting eu7 or 8.....
Not a single one of the suggestions in this thread have been good.
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