Please no Ironman for Achievments

[redomer]

I am a great fan of paradox games and I enjoyed at least the newer titles for quite some time (CK2, EU4 and V2) but there is one big thing that bothers me alot. It is Ironman. I somewhat undestand the desire to make players earn those achievements but Ironman is very prohibitive when it comes to playing. Here is my list what it does wrong:

1. No trying out and mistakes are allowed.
   
2. Bugs and unair moments can screw one permantly.
3. Possible savegame corruption is a game ender.
4. Slight modifications make it impossible to earn achievements.
5. Saving sometimes takes some time and can disrupt the "flow" of the game.

The above make games less fun for me. Not to mention that I have to invest more time to play a "full" game. (Time I sometimes don't have.) I also don't want to miss out on the great invention of multible saves and all the fun that comes with it.
I however have a solution for this that could maybe even satisfy the "hardcore" players whom seem to be the vocal majority on the forums.

• Let us run the game in a debug mode where the console is enabled and achievements disabled (mainly for modders and those who can not play without cheats ). Using this mode "pollutes" a save and makes it impossible to earn achievement with.
  
• Make achievement that can even be gotten when playing with mods. (Let's be honest if someone wants to "cheat" an achievement then he or she will always be able to)
• Make (few) hardcore achievements for unmodified games.

I hope I didn't step to many toes with this but I think positive feedback from the game should be available to everyone even us "casual gamers".

 

[EU3NOOB]

Achievements are overrated. I never touch Ironman mode.

 

[redomer]

Achievements are overrated. I never touch Ironman mode.

I kind of know how you feel. I don't use Ironman myself (reasons above). I don't get all the hate when this issue comes up on other the other forums. I view them as my personal thing. It doesn't affect other players negatively when I use a mod or something. (Heck I used some mods that make that make games harder/ realistic but I would never force anyone else to use them.) But I like it when they pop up (you did something, yay) and I like looking at them after a while and enjoy my memories of what I was doing when I got them.

 

[marcopt15]

O really dont understand this. If you don´t want it, you can play without it. The achievements are made for the base game. Even the slightest of changes can make a hard achievement a thousand times easier. I personally like ironman and hope that its present in stellaris.

 

[Tunnel_SnakeOG]

If you're into achievements I think it's fair to force people to earn them. A lot of the achievements become significantly easier if you get to re-roll every bad war you get into, and a big part of what makes Paradox games fun is that you can take the good with the bad and adapt to set backs, rather than making every play through a perfect game where you never lose a battle.

 

[S34man]

I only play CK2 and EU4 in ironman, because I find the games a lot more enjoyable with having to cope with my mistakes instead of loading a save. Some of the achievements in those games were brutaly hard, I've must have spent 100+ hrs in the old version EU4 trying to win the Hundred years war as England and integrating France. The reward when you finaly make it is so much greater though.

 

[redomer]

If you're into achievements I think it's fair to force people to earn them. A lot of the achievements become significantly easier if you get to re-roll every bad war you get into, and a big part of what makes Paradox games fun is that you can take the good with the bad and adapt to set backs, rather than making every play through a perfect game where you never lose a battle.

Stuff like this should be more of a personal rule rather than being forced upon the players. I like the freedom of choice in paradox games but Ironman takes a lot of freedom out. I don't think any longtime player reloads every battle and war because it went bad. Let's divide the cases. If you play Byzantium in EU4 then you often have to reload bad wars because the early game doesn't allow mistakes. If you play France, Austria, Portugal, etc then you can take a few setbacks without losing and then it is fun.

 

[I_AM_King_Midas]

I really hope the game has ironman.

 

[redomer]

I only play CK2 and EU4 in ironman, because I find the games a lot more enjoyable with having to cope with my mistakes instead of loading a save. Some of the achievements in those games were brutaly hard, I've must have spent 100+ hrs in the old version EU4 trying to win the Hundred years war as England and integrating France. The reward when you finaly make it is so much greater though.

That's more of a personal choice. What stops you from playing with no reloading as a personal rule?

 

[redomer]

I really hope the game has ironman.

Why? There is nothing that stops you from having almost the same experience without ironman. No reason to force that on someone. I really hope they get more "casual" with that.

 

[marcopt15]

But why add achievements at all if a player could just mod the game to easily get them or use the console to cheat? Paradox games are the only ones i play with achievements in mind, exactly because i know every single one i got i earned fair and square.

 

[Aries666]

I am a great fan of paradox games and I enjoyed at least the newer titles for quite some time (CK2, EU4 and V2) but there is one big thing that bothers me alot. It is Ironman. I somewhat undestand the desire to make players earn those achievements but Ironman is very prohibitive when it comes to playing. Here is my list what it does wrong:

1. No trying out and mistakes are allowed.
   
2. Bugs and unair moments can screw one permantly.
3. Possible savegame corruption is a game ender.
4. Slight modifications make it impossible to earn achievements.
5. Saving sometimes takes some time and can disrupt the "flow" of the game.

The above make games less fun for me. Not to mention that I have to invest more time to play a "full" game. (Time I sometimes don't have.) I also don't want to miss out on the great invention of multible saves and all the fun that comes with it.
I however have a solution for this that could maybe even satisfy the "hardcore" players whom seem to be the vocal majority on the forums.

• Let us run the game in a debug mode where the console is enabled and achievements disabled (mainly for modders and those who can not play without cheats ). Using this mode "pollutes" a save and makes it impossible to earn achievement with.
  
• Make achievement that can even be gotten when playing with mods. (Let's be honest if someone wants to "cheat" an achievement then he or she will always be able to)
• Make (few) hardcore achievements for unmodified games.

I hope I didn't step to many toes with this but I think positive feedback from the game should be available to everyone even us "casual gamers".

If you don't want ironman you don't have to play with it on. I don't want your personal choices to affect my game and remove ironman. As for your points,

1) Play on normal is you want to try things out before doing an ironman run
2) There are very few bugs that are so detrimental that they ruin an achievement run, to the point that in 2000 hours I have never had an achievement ruined by a bug
3) This is the case with any saved file
4) That's the point ironman is supposed to be a yardstick, everyone gets their achievements under the same conditions
5) Ironman saves aren't that long, if you are so hard up for time that those extra seconds matter you probably shouldn't be playing computer games

What should happen however, is to handle ironman like CK2, on setting for achievements and ironman lite for people who want to play with settings but be prevented from save scumming.

 

[redomer]

But why add achievements at all if a player could just mod the game to easily get them or use the console to cheat? Paradox games are the only ones i play with achievements in mind, exactly because i know every single one i got i earned fair and square.

My solution prevents just cheating achievments please read at least the entire first post.

I will just throw these screens out there:

 

[marcopt15]

Playing with mods is the same as cheating. Just make a mod that makes coring free and removes AE. Then get easy WC achievement. How does your solution prevent this? If you dont want ironman, play without it, you have that option. However if they were to remove ironman completely, those who enjoy playing with it wouldn´t have a choice.

 

[Thure]

That's more of a personal choice. What stops you from playing with no reloading as a personal rule?

Because many people don't have such a self disciplin...

 

[redomer]

If you don't want ironman you don't have to play with it on. I don't want your personal choices to affect my game and remove ironman. As for your points,

1) Play on normal is you want to try things out before doing an ironman run
2) There are very few bugs that are so detrimental that they ruin an achievement run, to the point that in 2000 hours I have never had an achievement ruined by a bug
3) This is the case with any saved file
4) That's the point ironman is supposed to be a yardstick, everyone gets their achievements under the same conditions
5) Ironman saves aren't that long, if you are so hard up for time that those extra seconds matter you probably shouldn't be playing computer games

What should happen however, is to handle ironman like CK2, on setting for achievements and ironman lite for people who want to play with settings but be prevented from save scumming.

1. How on god's green earth does more freedom screw with your choices more than ironman screws with mine (You can easily restrict YOURSELF)?
2. Saving and reloading is big feature. A failsave.
   
3. Do you think games like FNV are worse games because they are more relaxed about achievment? I don't think so. The game rules change all the time anyway so what is the point of everyone having "the same condition"?
4. I said that saving all the time disrupts the game flow. What really takes time is starting over and over. That is what I sometimes don't have time for.

 

[Thure]

My solution prevents just cheating achievments please read at least the entire first post.

I will just throw these screens out there:

What do you want to show with this? This proves nothing. All players of New Vegas get archievements. Even the ones who don't care about them.

 

[redomer]

Because many people don't have such a self disciplin...

That should be more their problem than mine ...

 

[Thure]

That should be more their problem than mine ...

It's not your problem. You are not forced to play Ironman...

 

[Haresus]

Have Ironman, it does not harm anyone, it makes sure that achieving achievements is actually an achievement, Ironman keeps an autosave ready in case you crash (so you never have to worry about not saving your game), Ironman keeps undisciplined bastards away from savescumming and it is clearly the bold and brave way of playing Paradox games.

Support freedom of choice; support Ironman! Don't hate freedom!