Poles Apart – an HOI4 Ahistory

[TheButterflyComposer]

They will get their very own dedicated threeway Civil War ^^

Seems historically implausible, so perhaps?

 

[Bibliophile]

We shall fight on their beaches, we shall fight on their landing grounds, we shall fight in their fields and their streets; we shall fight in their hills; they shall always surrender.
- this timeline’s version of Winston Churchill’s famous speech; probably. It certainly would fit Great Britain’s aggressive streak in this game.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

'I have nothing to offer but the blood, toil, tears and sweat of the helpless enemy, and a fuckton of oil too!'

- Said Winston S Chuchill. Probably.

 

[Le Jones]

Well, wow. This latest chapter should be required reading for anyone who thinks HOI4 is not bat excrement crazy. The peace conference for this is going to be migraine inducing.

With just 22 days to go until a decision, there were concerns that Churchill may not approve the request.​

Historians may well refer to this as the "wasted opportunity", with lots of what iffery.

​

I still find it baffling that your Germany and Russia are led by Adenauer and Trotsky respectively.

The issue came to a sudden and dramatica head on 21 February 1939, when as a seeming bolt out of the blue Italy declared war on Yugoslavia. In an eery parallel to the Great War, it fell to Belgrade to be the capital that had refused to bow to an ultimatum and then found itself attacked, even if the delay was longer this time. This Italian attack immediately escalated the conflict, with France honouring its guarantee to defend Yugoslavia. On paper (and only imprecise reports at that in these early stages) the Italians appeared heavily outnumbered.

I've seen this a lot in HOI4 - Italy triggering WW2 by going for Yugoslavia.

Almost ignored now in the background, the Spanish Civil War just ground on.

It was ever thus.

What could only be described as a period of ‘March Madness’ began when Britain lit the fuse in the Middle East. They took a dislike to the ruling Hashemite regime in Iraq and declared war on 2 March, with the aim of making Iraq a British puppet.

​

Because, of course this makes sense.

But the situation soon escalated. Somehow, Iran became involved on 6 March, Churchill apparently taking offence at something they had said or done. And then, for reasons not immediately clear in Poland, the Netherlands was suddenly dragged into the conflict on the 7th, with the puppeting of Curacao now added to that of Iraq and Iran as British war goals!

​

France then joined the Allies on 10 March, with a call to arms from them issued to all the Allies the following day. Yugoslavia then joined the Allies on the 12th. Poland joined this stumbling rush to war, not wanting to appear a weak-kneed fellow-traveller within the alliance. So now found itself at war with Italy, but with Britain and France as major allies.

By 19 March, two somewhat confusingly separately defined but overlapping wars were going on side by side. The main upshot though remained the Allies against Italy with Iraq, Iran and the Netherlands as side-theatres. The Allies retained the upper hand in total military strength and industrial power.

Bat defecation madness at the ready

Churchill was proving to be more of a ‘global bully’ than even Mussolini!

Oh dear

This triggered a new round of escalation after Italy declared war on the morning of the 7th. Germany fulfilled a pledge to come to the aid of the brave Albanians and quickly joined the Allies, as did Albania. Germany then honoured France’s call to arms and now they too were participants in the wider French (Allied)-Italian War!

​

At this stage, Poland was trying to produce all the various equipment it needed to sustain its growing army and the trade resources necessary to sustain their military factories. And things seemed largely on track.

At this stage, Poland is probably trying to work out what in the name of God is going on.


Great stuff @Bullfilter - even if the events portrayed grow madder by the update...

 

[nuclearslurpee]

We better wrap this up quick before Le Jones runs out of synonyms for guano.

Well, wow. This latest chapter should be required reading for anyone who thinks HOI4 is not bat excrement crazy. The peace conference for this is going to be migraine inducing.

The Empire of Japan would like to secure a bound pledge from Poland, we will vote for Proposition 127.5 (Brittany remains a Polish puppet) in exchange for a Polish vote on Proposition 439.2 (New Zealand is jointly annexed by Japan and the Socialist Republic of Algeria).

 

[Midnite Duke]

We better wrap this up quick before Le Jones runs out of synonyms for guano.


The Empire of Japan would like to secure a bound pledge from Poland, we will vote for Proposition 127.5 (Brittany remains a Polish puppet) in exchange for a Polish vote on Proposition 439.2 (New Zealand is jointly annexed by Japan and the Socialist Republic of Algeria).

Not so fast, the world holiday celebrating the discovery of glow-in-the-dark artificially flavored crushed ice drinks is not until July 11. The Empire, Republic, Kingdom and People's Republic of France wishes The Great Potentate Winston Churchill and our fellow members of the World Peace Organization to recognize the Ryukyu Islands trustee-ship over the Japanese Islands. Thank you for your time and France is ready to help deliver a smack-down on anyone that does not recognize the moral superiority of the WPO.

 

[Bullfilter]

More comment feedback as I wind up for the next instalment:

We shall fight on their beaches, we shall fight on their landing grounds, we shall fight in their fields and their streets; we shall fight in their hills; they shall always surrender.
- this timeline’s version of Winston Churchill’s famous speech; probably. It certainly would fit Great Britain’s aggressive streak in this game.

This seems very apposite. I've been surprised at how aggressive the UK has been under Churchill.

'I have nothing to offer but the blood, toil, tears and sweat of the helpless enemy, and a fuckton of oil too!'

- Said Winston S Chuchill. Probably.

Almost certainly

Well, wow. This latest chapter should be required reading for anyone who thinks HOI4 is not bat excrement crazy. The peace conference for this is going to be migraine inducing.

True I guess, though my experience is limited and I did switch it to Vaudeville (ie non-historical foci).

Historians may well refer to this as the "wasted opportunity", with lots of what iffery.

For whom? (genuine question). Of all the faction on offer, at this point anyway the Allies look pretty good for Poland with the UL, France and Germany all aboard and the US a potential later participant, while a Trostkyist USR lurks on the eastern border with nothing better to do than think darg permanent revolutionary thoughts about Poland.

I still find it baffling that your Germany and Russia are led by Adenauer and Trotsky respectively.

Indeed. But playing the game, you get used to it soon enough.

I've seen this a lot in HOI4 - Italy triggering WW2 by going for Yugoslavia.

Hmm, an interesting aside. Silly them.

It was ever thus.

In game as well as in life.

Because, of course this makes sense.

Hair on fire, running around madly, petrol strewn everywhere

Bat defecation madness at the ready

Oh dear


At this stage, Poland is probably trying to work out what in the name of God is going on.


Great stuff @Bullfilter - even if the events portrayed grow madder by the update...

Thanks! More madness in store, no doubt, but this initial tranche of it is pretty guano-ish, I agree!

We better wrap this up quick before Le Jones runs out of synonyms for guano.

The Empire of Japan would like to secure a bound pledge from Poland, we will vote for Proposition 127.5 (Brittany remains a Polish puppet) in exchange for a Polish vote on Proposition 439.2 (New Zealand is jointly annexed by Japan and the Socialist Republic of Algeria).

Not so fast, the world holiday celebrating the discovery of glow-in-the-dark artificially flavored crushed ice drinks is not until July 11. The Empire, Republic, Kingdom and People's Republic of France wishes The Great Potentate Winston Churchill and our fellow members of the World Peace Organization to recognize the Ryukyu Islands trustee-ship over the Japanese Islands. Thank you for your time and France is ready to help deliver a smack-down on anyone that does not recognize the moral superiority of the WPO.

Nice cross-promotion of the sponsor's product, guys! (For those not familiar, it refers to my HOI3 Talking Turkey AAR, where five and a half real years after its start, we're in the Peace Conference stage).

 

[Bullfilter]

Chapter Four – The ‘War Escalator Clause’
(May 1939 – January 1940)

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May-hem (13-31 May 1939)

The Anglo-French offensive into western Iraq was making progress by mid-May 1939, as Iran attempted an attack against Allied troops stationed in Kuwait.

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In Poland, recent discoveries had allowed work to begin on a radar network for eastern Poland. The first installation had been deployed at Nowogródek, with another just commenced in Lwów.

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In northern Italy, French and German forces had made some rapid initial gains, seizing Turin and now on the outskirts of Milan and Genoa.

​

And in south-eastern Iran, the Iranians were now trying to counter-attack early gains by the forces of the British Raj, aided by a French armoured division.

​

Poland’s second armoured division had begun training and the recently developed first Polish heavy tank would now be used to provide a little extra punch, once industry could be geared up accordingly.

​

It was at this stage on the morning of May 23 that alignments among the warring parties across the globe started to coalesce more in the Merry Merry Month of Mayhem. The big news for the Allies was Italy siding with Imperial Kwantung and the Asian League. This then caused a familiar cascading effect, dragging the Allies into the Chinese conflict, while Iran and Iraq also sided with this Fascist grouping. It culminated in China joining the Allies at 0900hr on the 26th.

The 'War Escalator' clause has once again been invoked!
​

In the Europe and the Middle East, the factional battle lines were more clearly drawn.

​

In Asia the sorely beset Nationalist Chinese, facing both Fascist and Communist enemies (though that latter had formed around the Maoists, not the Trotskyist USR), now hoped for some support to aid their flagging cause. Japan and the USR remained neutral observers. For now, anyway.

​

As May drew to a chaotic close, in what was now termed the Italian-British War, the Allies retained a big advantage in manpower and industry, also suffering fewer casualties to retain a marginal edge in its progress.

​

Factoring in the participation of the Mutual Assistance Bloc (against whom not all the Allies were as yet at war), the picture was a little more balanced. Poland had yet to contribute anything to the war effort.

​

In Asia, China was in a bit of trouble on the Allied side of the ledger. For The Asian League, Iraq and Xibei San Ma remained in some danger, Italy less so, while Sinkiang was now free of enemy occupation, reversing its earlier position against the NatChi.

More diplomatic moves were made over coming days as countries from either side declared war on each other and the name of the main conflict and sub-conflicts varied from day to day, but they will not be related in detail here.

Just a couple of weeks in May 1939 had sent the newspapers of the world into a new level of frenzy. It was at this time that many started to believe that another world war could have begun, though it looked very different to what many had been expected just a few years before.

Spoiler: OTL: May Events

On May 13, Italy’s Galeazzo Ciano informs Józef Beck that in case of future Polish-German conflict, Italy will support Germany. General Tadeusz Kasprzycki begins negotiations in Paris about military help with General Maurice Gamelin from 15-19 May. Both sides pledge to help each other in case of war. On 16 May General Wacław Stachiewicz ordered his subordinates to create a plan of fortifications along the Polish-German border. Polish-British military negotiations began in Warsaw on 23 May.

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Allied Progress in a ‘A New Normal’ (1 June – 5 September 1939)

But Poland, though a very interested observer but with no active conflict on its borders, was to a great degree insulated from much of this world war madness. As June began, the range of equipment being produced was becoming more diverse.

​

More than half their military factories were churning out tanks of one sort or another (the light 7TP Mk1 and the heavy 27TP main battle tank), while a new fighter model had been developed and was being produced in limited numbers. The heavy tank line in particular would take some time to ramp up to greater efficiency.

News came via diplomatic channels on 5 June that the Kingdom of Greece was justifying a war goal against Albania, where they clearly had some opportunistic territorial ambitions of their own. Didn’t they realise that any attack could bring them into conflict with the Allies? They must be banking on cooperating with the Italians – but it seemed rather unwise.

On 9 June, Poland formed its 3rd Army in the south, commanded by General Marian Kukiel, a defensive specialist. He had responsibility for the border with Czechoslovakia, Romania and the southern border sector with the USR. 1st Army had the central USR sector, including the nascent mechanised corps, while the 2nd Army looked after the north.

​

On 21 June, the Forgotten War in Spain came to an end, the pro-Fascist Nationalists taking the victory.

​

By early July, the Polish Air Force was primarily oriented to the east, with a fighter reserve in Warsaw. The tiny Navy still sheltered in Danzig.

​

Good news came towards the end of August, as Iran capitulated following an Allied offensive (mainly from the Raj in the east) that had quickly overrun their resistance over the last few months. Iraq fought on but was beleaguered.

​

The war raged on in China and remained a difficult proposition for the NatChi, though they had avoided collapse over the last few months.

​

Spoiler: OTL Events: July-September

Tensions and pressure grew, with German threats and demands increasing over Danzig and the ‘Corridor’, with the Polish army initiating a partial mobilisation on 13 August, extended further on 24 August after the Moscow, Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was signed in Moscow on the 23rd, followed by a pact of mutual help between Poland and Great Britain being signed in London on the 25th. Full Polish mobilisation is ordered on the 30th and the ‘false flag’ Gleiwitz incident is staged by the Germans on the 31st. We all know what happened next: Poland was invaded by Nazi Germany on 1 September, precipitating the start of the Second World War. Poland was invaded by the USSR on 17 September. Poland was soon defeated and a Government-in-Exile formed in Paris on 1 October. By 6 October it was all over.

[From Wikipedia] Left to right, top to bottom: Luftwaffe bombers over Poland; Schleswig-Holstein attacking the Westerplatte; Danzig Police destroying the Polish border post; German tank and armoured car formation; German and Soviet troops shaking hands; bombing of Warsaw.

A map of what I was expecting but has fortunately not transpired in this ATL. Yet, anyway.​

Iraq capitulated on 5 September 1939, which appeared to wrap up the Allied campaign in the Middle East and Central Asia, at least.

​

A closer look at the Chinese Theatre in mid-September showed that French, British (Raj and regular) and even a few German divisions were now operating side-by-side with their Chinese Allies, who were still holding on.

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In Poland, after some concerted exercising over recent months, the first air doctrine was unlocked. It was decided that the ‘strategic destruction’ branch would be pursued, mainly for its defensive benefits.

​

Allied losses were mounting by 24 September, with the faction demarcations in Asia, showing that China was at risk of being cut off in a north-south pincer to the north of Burma.

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As September was ending, most Polish equipment stockpiles were ‘in the green’ or near to it, with heavy tank production still ramping up. And the British were throwing their weight around more, this time on the Washington Naval Treaty – which hardly applied to Poland! Polish manpower was now strong after shortages in previous years, political capital was good. Overall, things seemed to be all right for now in the Second Republic.

​

After a quiet (for Poland) October, it seemed a shortage in rolling stock had developed. It would require some industrial investment to correct.

​

There was more diplomatic lunacy on 16 December, when Greece got greedy and declared war on Albania, even though the Allies had made (recently slowed) progress against Italy in the north and Albania was part of the Allies. Interestingly, Greece joined the MAB with Communist China rather than the Fascist Asian League, which Italy had aligned with.

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March, March, Dąbrowski, from Poland to Italy (20 December 1939 – 7 January 1940)

Four days later, it was noted things were progressing a little slowly in Piedmont and that the main Allies only had eight divisions deployed there now. Poland decided it was time to start contributing more practically to the Allied cause and start to give units and generals some combat experience. The initial contribution would be a corps of four infantry divisions from the 3rd Army on the Czech border, which embarked on their long train trip on 20 December.

​

They arrived in Turin a week later. Seeing the situation was looking a little shaky around Milan and wanting to help take it, the divisions were rushed forward without being given time to fully reorganise after their trip. Things had gone better for the Allies in the south, with Genoa and La Spezia taken in recent months and Bologna in their sights.

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The first Polish combat engagement of the war began at 0700hr on 30 December 1939, where they had plugged a gap in the line west of Milan. Despite being low on organisation, they eventually won the encounter on the night of 1 January 1940.

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The Allies and Italians were noted to be duelling in the air above them. Polish Air Force units had not be deployed and there was no plan to do so, with ample Allied air cover seemingly available.

The other action was a spoiling attack on Milan by 2 and 7 DP on Milan which began on the morning of 1 January, as their comrades still defending to the north.

Polish infantry attacking Milan, 1 January 1940.​

After 6 and 10 DP finished their defence, though still under-prepared they joined in the cross-river attack on Milan early on 2 January. By the end of 3 January, the attack on Milan was being pressed forward while the Italians launched a spoiling attack south of Milan.

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The Italian spoiling attack would be defeated by 5 January and the attack on Milan won on the morning of 7 January. Poland had begun its more serious involvement in the proto-World War Two on a bright enough note.

=======​

 

[Midnite Duke]

Random-event HoI3 is more fun than regular. History will show that brave Polish soldiers fought heroically in 1939 (two days, but who quibbles about the number of days). I am sorry @RustyHunter but Iran does not see September 1939. Will your Poland last longer than @Bullfilter's Iran? (If the sponsor chooses to sue me for invoking a competing AAR, I hope that he realizes that I have Dewey Cheatem and his legal beagles on retainer.)

 

[Bullfilter]

If the sponsor chooses to sue me for invoking a competing AAR, I hope that he realizes that I have Dewey Cheatem and his legal beagles on retainer.

The sponsor never minds a bit of cross-promotion by or for pAARtipating readAARs!

 

[Midnite Duke]

Greece is either dumber than Italy (hard to believe) or they think that Communist China can help more than Italy's group of stooges.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

News came via diplomatic channels on 5 June that the Kingdom of Greece was justifying a war goal against Albania, where they clearly had some opportunistic territorial ambitions of their own. Didn’t they realise that any attack could bring them into conflict with the Allies? They must be banking on cooperating with the Italians – but it seemed rather unwise.

Yes, Greece is very greedy and very stupid in HOI4. In my democratic Germany game, as I had finally managed to unify most European countries into an alliance against communism, Greece declared war on Turkey, also a pact member. I kicked them out, they joined the allies, and we were in a war with the british and Greeks. Face palm.

Iraq capitulated on 5 September 1936, which appeared to wrap up the Allied campaign in the Middle East and Central Asia, at least.

Certainly looks like the British are trying to corner the oil market throughout the globe. The US better watch out!

 

[nuclearslurpee]

On 21 June, the Forgotten War in Spain came to an end, the pro-Fascist Nationalists taking the victory.

Is this a pretty normal timeframe for the SCW to resolve? Grudging credit where it is due if so, otherwise praise RNGesus.

Good news came towards the end of August, as Iran capitulated following an Allied offensive (mainly from the Raj in the east) that had quickly overrun their resistance over the last few months.

R.I.P. @RustyHunter

In Poland, after some concerted exercising over recent months, the first air doctrine was unlocked. It was decided that the ‘strategic destruction’ branch would be pursued, mainly for its defensive benefits.

Even in an "ahistorical" game I am pleased to see that the historical behavior of every country demanding an impractical and ineffective strategic bombing force remains constant.

Interestingly, Greece joined the MAB with Communist China rather than the Fascist Asian League, which Italy had aligned with.

At this point everybody is staring at Trotsky saying "Wellll...?" and waiting for the other Red Shoe to drop.

Naturally Trotsky will probably join the Allies or something similarly bullsh...erm, male bovine fecal matter, can't upset Le Jones now can we?

Four days later, it was noted things were progressing a little slowly in Piedmont and that the main Allies only had eight divisions deployed there now. Poland decided it was time to start contributing more practically to the Allied cause and start to give units and generals some combat experience. The initial contribution would be a corps of four infantry divisions from the 3rd Army on the Czech border, which embarked on their long train trip on 20 December.

Might have been quicker to just invade the Czechs, would honestly have been sensible in this ATL particularly as Poland did have some halfway-legitimate quarrels over territory ("legitimate" being a relative term here, compared to what else is going on...).

In my democratic Germany game, [...] Greece declared war on Turkey,

In fairness, I'm a bit surprised this didn't happen in OTL. Multiple times, possibly annually as a tradition. The Greeks and Turks really do not seem to like each other very much.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Is this a pretty normal timeframe for the SCW to resolve? Grudging credit where it is due if so, otherwise praise RNGesus.

Depends whether more civil war factions fire. If the nationals start losing, a lot of factions emerge.

But yeah maximum tends to be two years or so, if Republicans win (just cleaning up factions) and maybe a bit less if nationals win.

In fairness, I'm a bit surprised this didn't happen in OTL. Multiple times, possibly annually as a tradition. The Greeks and Turks really do not seem to like each other very much.

Mm. It seemed to be all part of stalin's master plan because he picked that exact moment to invade Poland, my big time ally.

Honestly, that game could easily be written in such a way that a diabolical chess master was running Russia and playing everyone for fools.

 

[RustyHunter]

Not how I was expecting the game to become a true global war, but I'll take it! I'm not sure how much help, if any, the Asian League will be for Italy, but it is going to turn Asia into a real meat-grinder now.

I'm liking the Polish tank force that is developing so far, and hopefully they will get to prove themselves if Trotsky ever attacks. I'm assuming the 27TP is just the name you came up with for a fictional Polish heavy tank?

Also nice to see the Poles finally enter the fray, even if it's just a few divisions. Hopefully they can be decisive in taking northern Italy which will cripple the European Axis if nothing else.

I'm also liking nuclearslurpee's suggestion of attacking the Czechs, Poland has a decent amount of issues with them, and we could get some more alt-hist to throw on the fire!

I am sorry @RustyHunter but Iran does not see September 1939. Will your Poland last longer than @Bullfilter's Iran?

R.I.P. @RustyHunter

I'm so mixed on this AAR, the Iranians have already been crushed into dust by the Allied steamroller, but Nationalist China can still be saved! I'm rooting for China to win the day and crush Puyi, but that might be a bit far fetched.

 

[nuclearslurpee]

I'm assuming the 27TP is just the name you came up with for a fictional Polish heavy tank?

It is four 7TPs welded together, it would be a 28TP but some bits fell off in the manufacturing process so it is not quite 4x the tankiness.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

I for one welcome our new British overlords who are clearly working for the common interest...by taking over the entire planet's fuel supply and killing anyone who doesn't like them.

 

[Bullfilter]

I'm assuming the 27TP is just the name you came up with for a fictional Polish heavy tank?

Quick answer: no, that’s what the game calls them. I haven’t checked to see if anything like that was ever contemplated by the Poles at the time.

 

[jak7139]

The big news for the Allies was Italy siding with Imperial Kwantung and the Asian League. This then caused a familiar cascading effect, dragging the Allies into the Chinese conflict, while Iran and Iraq also sided with this Fascist grouping. It culminated in China joining the Allies

China looked to be on the verge of defeat. Thankfully the brave Polish soldiers (and friends) will save them.

In the Europe and the Middle East, the factional battle lines were more clearly drawn.

In more ways than one since my color-blind eyes can barely tell the difference between the Reds of CCP and the UK in China.

Greece was justifying a war goal against Albania, where they clearly had some opportunistic territorial ambitions of their own. Didn’t they realise that any attack could bring them into conflict with the Allies?

The AI doesn't need such petty concerns as "logic".

On 21 June, the Forgotten War in Spain came to an end, the pro-Fascist Nationalists taking the victory.

Probably good for the Allies, since the Republicans might've joined Trotsky's faction.

Polish manpower was now strong after shortages in previous years, political capital was good. Overall, things seemed to be all right for now in the Second Republic.

Let's hope the trend continues.

Interestingly, Greece joined the MAB with Communist China rather than the Fascist Asian League, which Italy had aligned with.

This probably helps Greece more since the Allies seem to be focusing most of their efforts on the Asian League at the moment.

The initial contribution would be a corps of four infantry divisions from the 3rd Army

I look forward to the saga of the Polish Defense Force fighting in Italy, China, and across the globe.

 

[El Pip]

It does seem incredibly on-brand for Italy that even though the war is called the British-Italian War they ended up in the Asian League, relegated to a supporting role even in their own war. While the Far East is looking a tad tricky it is reassuring to see the forces of good triumphing in the Middle East and Europe, this is unusual in a Bullfilter work as normally it is the baddies who win.

Quick answer: no, that’s what the game calls them. I haven’t checked to see if anything like that was ever contemplated by the Poles at the time.

Best I can tell - sort of. The Poles had a project for a ~25 tonne medium tank that got as far as a single wooden mockup by September 1939. Given the tendency of all tank projects to gain weight and the deeply imaginative Polish tank naming scheme (weight of tank in tonnes then a P for Polish) then by late 1940 they might have ended up with a 27P medium tank. Maybe. Or they'd have gone for the rival, far lighter, design which was probably more buildable by Polish industry.

In any event I don't think they ever had a heavy tank project, which is a fairly reasonable move given Polish doctrine and requirements. In OTL at least, in this exciting TL they make more sense!