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Revenger97

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After Patch 1.25 and Rule Britannia are released, the buffing of provinces in Britain, France and the Low Countries means that there will be several areas of the map which will be severely in need of improvements. Indeed, this patch, coupled with previous changes and expansions have left several regions sorely under powered. Specifically, areas like Spain, Italy, which have not been updated since patch 1.12, and Austria, which has not been changed since the beginning of the game, are underdeveloped and the nations that inhabit them somewhat nerfed compared to neighboring regions. With this in mind, I have made a number of suggestions as to how the map of Europe should be updated in future patches.

Iberia (Spain, Portugal, Aragon and Granada)
Many on this forum have clamored for a Spanish immersion pack and for the Iberian peninsula to be improved upon. Indeed, several of Iberia's provinces are still blocky in shape, and the region remains less detailed in comparison to regions like France and England. With that in mind, I suggest the following provinces could be added to give Iberia a little facelift.

EUIV Spain.jpg


As you can see, this map adds in a few coastal provinces for Castile, such as Huelva, and splits the province of Galicia into three, potentially making its own state, and is no less smaller than the new provinces in Yorkshire are. These port provinces will boost Castile's sailor pool and naval force limit, allowing them to challenge other European powers for control of the seas. Furthermore, they benefit from greater detail in the interior, with provinces like Avila, Merida and Albacete to break up blocky provinces like Toledo and La Mancha. To compensate for this buff to Castile, her neighbors also benefit from increased provinces. Granada gains the province of Malaga to give it a little more staying power against Castile, and Aragon gains the provinces of Calatayud (to prevent bordergore if Navarra or Castile only take Zaragoza in a peacedeal) and Castellon. Portugal should also get more provinces in the Algarve region and potentially Viseu, to counter the increase in provinces elsewhere.

Italy
Though Italy has been improved in the past, by today's standard, the region is sorely lacking when smaller regions like England and even the Middle East are more detailed. Historically, Italy was the most densely populated region in Europe and an increase in provinces should reflect that. In particular, this thread (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/administrative-subdivision-of-italy.1075123/) contains several good ideas for Italian provinces as well as historical reasoning)

EUIV Northern Italy.jpg


As you can see, Northern Italy would increase in density, with cities such as Ravenna, Padua, Bergamo, Pavia and Saluzzo being added to the map. Milan would also benefit from the province of Ticino to buffer against the Swiss, as well as Savoy gaining the Val D'Aosta so that they don't lose access to Savoy if Switzerland takes Wallis.

EUIV Southern Italy.jpg


Southern Italy should also get some new provinces as well, splitting Abruzzi and adding the province of Benevento, as well as adding Capua as a buffer between Naples and Rome. The Papacy itself would also benefit from splitting Umbria between Perugia and Spoleto, increasing the power of the Papacy in the area. Personally, I think adding these provinces would balance these powers as well as make the area more interesting to play in.

Austria
Austria is perhaps one of the only regions that has not seen any real changes to the map since the game was released. As a result, it looks really bare in comparison to it's neighbors and rivals and can create problems in regards to liberty desire, seeing as it's junior partners, Hungary and Bohemia, have seen map updates and increases in development. To counter this, Austria could get a few more provinces.

EUIV Austria.jpg


As you can see, large provinces like Tyrol should be split. In particular, the province of Karnten should be split between Villach in the west and Klagenfurt in the east. Also adding in provinces like Celli make it a little more difficult for invaders like the Ottomans to fully occupy Austria. Many suggestions in this thread (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...rian-region-nis-dhes-and-suggestions.1001758/) would also go a long way in making the area more interesting to play in, adding nations like the Archbishopric of Passau and the Free City of Rothenburg. In conclusion, the region would be as detailed compared to the rest of Europe.

The Balkans
Whereas Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia have seen many changes to better represent the area, Bulgaria is somewhat under-detailed despite being the largest Balkan power. Admittedly, any changes to this area would arouse concerns about buffing the Ottomans, however, I believe this is offset by buffing other nations as well.

EUIV Wallachia.jpg


As you can see, splitting the provinces of Tarnovo, Plovdiv and Silistria allows Bulgaria to be better represented in game. The number of states in the region can double (adding the area of Dobruja). Concerns about this being a buff for the Ottomans are placated by buffing Wallachia and Moldavia, as these nations have their provinces doubled and could potentially counteract the increase in provinces to the Ottmans. Also, the coast of Zeta should be split off to form the province of Kotor, owned by Venice in 1444, which can also assist in delaying Ottoman expansion in the Balkans.

EUIV Greece.jpg


Also, Greece could also use a few more updates to further counterbalance the Ottomans. Whilst Thessaloniki is slit from the rest of Macedonia (Venice should have a core on it), Thrace should also get two new provinces: Komotini and the fort of Gallipoli, representing the importance of Gallipoli to crossing the Dardanelles. in response, Byzantium is also slightly buffed, with Achaea split between Patras and Korinthis, and Athens being split between Athens and Thebes. Also, Epirus would be present on the map in the province of Aetolia, and Venice and Genoa both get an extra province in the region, with Crete split between Candia and Iraklion and Genoa gaining the island of Lesbos. Whilst the Ottomans gain three provinces in this region, the other powers would counterbalance this by gaining five new provinces.

France
Finally, France should also get a few more provinces in the south, to counterbalance changes made to Spain and Italy, just as the north has in response to changes in Britain.

EUIV France.jpg


Basically, Southern France would gain an extra province in Foix. Also, Drauginan would lose it's coastline back to Provence, which would be split between Marseilles (more relevant in this timeframe) and Toulon (and important French naval base in the Mediterranean)

Those are all the changes I can suggest. If anyone has any other ideas, feel free to share!
 
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Some changes to Sweden-Finland and minor to Denmark and Norway it's most redraw not so much adding.
 

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I think the map changes in Austria could finally be used to implement the split between the duchy of Austria and the duchy of Tirol that should exist at game start. Although an event chain that end with almost guaranteed unification (at least for the AI) would also be needed to keep up the balance of power in the region.

Edit: Well technically it would be Upper Austria (ruled by Siegmund) and Lower Austria (which is the one that was historically ruled by Frederik III until the unification). At the game start Frederik was merely the regent for Siegmund.

Edit 2: typo
 
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Some changes to Sweden-Finland and minor to Denmark and Norway it's most redraw not so much adding.

So from what I see I'm a bit dubious to some changes, like merging lappland, splitting Tröndelagen, merging dal with värmland, but favorable to others.
Particularly splitting hälsingland in two, splitting Schleswig and I never thought of making Satakunta/Björneborg it's own province I didn't think of myself but it's a good call!
 
I think the map changes in Austria could finally be used to implement the split between the duchy of Austria and the duchy of Tirol that should exist at game start. Although an event chain that end with almost guaranteed unification (at least for the AI) would also be needed to keep up the balance of power in the region.

Both the nominal rulers of Austria, Ladislaus the posthumus (came of age in 1452), and the ruler of Tyrol, Sigismund (came of age in 1446) were minors at the time of game start with Frederick III of Styria being a regent for all of the habsburg core lands at the time. I prefer this to remain within the game, as I feel it is needed to represent the Habsburg power
 
Furthermore, Portugal does need a buff to it's development to counter the increases made to Castile and Aragon, which is why I still think the province of Viseu should be added, but I also think that Braga is a good addition to help Portugal boost it's navy (and the province should have naval supplies as a trade good). I still maintain that the Algarve should be split between Silves and Faro, if only to give Portugal more ports, by cutting off some of Beja's border in the south. That way, Portugal can have three states; Portucale (Porto, Braga, Braganca and Viseu), Lisbon (Lisboa, Coimbra, Beira and Evora) and Algarve (Beja, Silves and Faro).
I like this a lot. The province of Beira should definitely be split in (at least) two, not just to represent population distribution, but also because it helps reproduce the military significance of the region. As I mentioned elsewhere, the strategic defence of Portugal, and in particular Lisbon, in this time period relied on the major fortresses of Almeida (which would be in the northern half of the Beira province) and Elvas (in the Evora province). This would be reflected perfectly if Beira was split in two and a fort was added in the North Beira province and another one in the Evora province, since it would block access to Lisbon (which shouldn't have a fort) from the east while avoiding having two neighbouring forts (since South Beira wouldn't have/need one). I also agree that Porto should be split so that the city is not directly on the border and can then be properly defended. This makes sense especially if Galicia is broken up into several provinces and given its own state, as it should be.

Basically, the typical back-and-forth warfare in the Spanish-Portuguese border and the historical significance of major forts (see also Ciudad Rodrigo, the Spanish counterpart to Almeida, for example) are currently very hard to represent due to how 'blocky' the provinces are.
 
So from what I see I'm a bit dubious to some changes, like merging lappland, splitting Tröndelagen, merging dal with värmland, but favorable to others.
Particularly splitting hälsingland in two, splitting Schleswig and I never thought of making Satakunta/Björneborg it's own province I didn't think of myself but it's a good call!
It's based on old maps actually. Dal (Dalaborg/Dalsland) is merged to lower the total provinces in Sweden since it almost always has been administrated from somewhere else. Lappland is merged again sort of it's low relevance in the time frame and low population.
Tröndelagen has been divided in administration before.
Björneborg/Satakunta is actually Birkaland province reshaped tbh this time.
Nyland is divided to Raseborg and Borgå.
 
It's a bit of a mess.

And so I made my Iberia map. Overall Iberia is easy and not much you can think of there. Sure sources on pre 1822 provinces are very scarce for Spain, but as I find out many provinces haven't changed that much and you can nearly use nowadays or 1822 administrative divisions.
The only real exception is Albacete, it has no history for EU timeline - there was no such province and Albacete was just rural small town of no importance back then. So if ever somebody will try to split Murcia into 2, new province can't be called Albacete I think.

So my map:
View attachment 346337

This is nearly maximum I could think of. Maybe Calatayud for Aragon, Villafranca for Leon and 1-2 extra provinces for Portugal and that's definitely maximum of provinces in Iberia I would ever want to see in EUIV.

1. Braga. So why I chose Braga especially since it has very limited space in the north. Thing is that I wanted to split development out of Porto a little so that Porto wouldn't be such high development province. And Braga being like 3-4th biggest city (after Lisboa, Porto and maybe Coimbra) in very populous north seems as easily justified solution. There's also historical port called Viana do Castelo in very north, so separate coastal province with another port north of Porto is totally reasonable. Another thing that for naval nation like Portugal coastal provinces will be of more value, so I wouldn't add inland provinces for Portugal anymore. Lisboa-Coimbra-Porto-Braga coastline should be highest development provinces in Portugal by far, and so I would redistribute development a little from inland provinces to the coast. Also at least 1 province producing naval supplies in Portugal would be nice, and that can be Braga.

2-4. Pontevedra-Lugo-Orense. If Wales was split into 4 provinces, then Galicia should be split into no less than 4 provinces as well. It's very prolific region. It's most densely populated region of Spain in EUIV timeline. Lots of historical cities - Santiago de Compostela, A Coruna, Ferrol, Lugo, Ourense, Vigo, Pontevedra. Lots of ports, naval bases, importance of Galicia as naval region was really huge and was 2nd only to Andalusia in general. I draw same provinces as they are today, but historically Galicia was made out of seven provinces, so it's well possible to make say A Coruna & Santiago de Compostela as separate provinces:
View attachment 346360

5. Zamora. We need to split that huge Leon province.

6. Segovia. Old Castile is made of many provinces even today, so why Segovia and not Avila or Palencia? I made little research. First of all Valladolid is north of Douro river, so it can't be next to Madrid province, but rather between Leon & Burgos in the north. It's same place where Palencia province could be but as Valladolid is far more important and there's no real need to make many small provinces in this region, it would be best if Palencia was just part of Valladolid province. And so it's all between Avila and Segovia now. While Avila is few times bigger city now, simple information from wikipedia suggests that it was completely opposite few centuries before. Moreover - Segovia was among most prominent and biggest cities in all Spain in 16th century, so clear yes for Segovia.

7. Guadalajara. Economically very poor but historically rich province which could fix borders of New Castile a little.

8. Castellon. Tarragona needs to be returned to Catalonia where it belongs to, so Valencia region would get Castellon in return.

9. Malaga. It's just hard to explain why Malaga province isn't in EUIV for such a long time. It's top contender for another trade center modifier in Sevilla node.

10. Huelva. Personally I feel that this one is among lower priority provinces since it would cut Sevilla out from the sea and would remove river Estuary modifier from Seville which is already kind of incorrect. But if introduced, I think it should leave access to the sea for Sevilla, with river Guadiana Estuary modifier removed from Sevilla and Guadalquivir river Estuary modifier introduced in Cadiz.

11. Merida. Ok, this one is also low priority and I don't know how well it can be justified as I can't find any source showing such division in Extremadura. I just think it would be nice to have separate Extremadura state. But if not, 2 provinces of Extremadura can be merged with Leon state and there would be nothing wrong as all Extremadura was conquered by kingdom of Leon.



Then culture map:
View attachment 346377

Source:
View attachment 346378


And I would redistribute development to something like this:

North Portugal 57 (no change)
Porto 14
Coimbra 13
Braga 11
Beira 10
Braganca 9

South Portugal 41 (no change)
Lisboa 17
Beja 9
Algarve 8
Evora 7

Galicia 39 (+30 increase)
Santiago 12
Pontevedra 10
Lugo 9
Orense 8

Northern coast 41 (+4 inrease, Bordeaux trade node)
Asturias 12
Vizcaya 11 (richest port city in northern coast, current development of 6 is simply ridiculous.. It could be even trade center.)
Cantabria 9
Navarra 9

Leon 29 (-2 decrease)
Leon 11
Salamanca 10 (uff, I really wonder what background is behind current 19 development of province)
Zamora 8

Extremadura 20 (+2 increase)
Badajoz 8
Caceres 6 (I don't know why province trade good is Glass, but since Extremadura was very poor region I think its better to move it elswhere, say to neighboring Salamanca)
Merida 6

Old Castile 41 (+9 increase)
Burgos 11
Valladolid 11
Segovia 9
Rioja 5
Soria 5

New Castile 40 (-13 decrease)
Toledo 12
Madrid 11 (should be well boosted by events when capital moved to Madrid)
La Mancha 6
Cuenca 6
Guadalajara 5

Lower Andalusia 49 (no change)
Sevilla 15
Cadiz 10
Cordoba 9
Jaen 8
Huelva 7

Upper Andalusia 44 (+3 increase)

Malaga 12
Granada 11
Murcia 10
Almeria 8
Gibraltar 3

Catalonia 46 (-10 decrease)
Barcelona 12
Tarragona 10
Girona 9
Urgell 8
Roussillon 7

Valencia 43 (+15 increase)
Valencia 16
Alicante 10
Castellon 9
The Baleares 8

Aragon 32 (-3 decrease)
Zaragoza 14
Teruel 9
Pirineo 7


Good job, at least give something more to Castilla.
For your more extensive knowledge as I see that you are interested:

https://castellavetula.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/1829-libro-de-los-millones.pdf

page 400 onwards.

You'll see why Salamanca is 19, I thought it was a fucking mistake, honestly because as a city it was not very populated.

You will also see Soria, I already knew that in 1850 it had 50% more population than now, since it has been losing population for more than 150 years, what I did not know is that in 1587 it had twice the population now in 2018.

In short, it is very intuitive, there is even a comparison between 1587 and 1768 in which you can already see what happened and what will happen in the future.

----------------------------------------------

The truth is that taking into account that Trujillo should refer to Extremadura, well, yes, Extremadura was more populated than Catalonia.

And Salamanca almost that too.

And Seville, which curiously can be equivalent to the most cadiz game, that is, the current Seville, Huelva and Cadiz, as we observed that they lived 50% more than Catalonia.

Come on, what was already known that in the game the Crown of Castile should have a minimum of 4 times the development of the Crown of Aragon, and without being historical, if we put historical would be 6 or 7 times.
 
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Good job, at least give something more to Castilla.
For your more extensive knowledge as I see that you are interested:

https://castellavetula.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/1829-libro-de-los-millones.pdf

page 400 onwards.

You'll see why Salamanca is 19, I thought it was a fucking mistake, honestly because as a city it was not very populated.

You will also see Soria, I already knew that in 1850 it had 50% more population than now, since it has been losing population for more than 150 years, what I did not know is that in 1587 it had twice the population now in 2018.

In short, it is very intuitive, there is even a comparison between 1587 and 1768 in which you can already see what happened and what will happen in the future.

----------------------------------------------

The truth is that taking into account that Trujillo should refer to Extremadura, well, yes, Extremadura was more populated than Catalonia.

And Salamanca almost that too.

And Seville, which curiously can be equivalent to the most cadiz game, that is, the current Seville, Huelva and Cadiz, as we observed that they lived 50% more than Catalonia.

Come on, what was already known that in the game the Crown of Castile should have a minimum of 4 times the development of the Crown of Aragon, and without being historical, if we put historical would be 6 or 7 times.

Nice stuff! :)
But sadly Soria wasn't twice as populous. It simply included La Rioja in 1594, so you should cut in half 191k population which for 2 provinces is very low number. At least if we compare that Burgos, Castilla La Vieja, Leon (in EUIV boundaries) were all at ~500k as I count and Galicia over 600k. Interestingly I now find out that La Rioja / Logrono had no province in nearly entire EUIV timeline.
And Salamanca boundaries were also bigger in 1594, so it wasn't that populous. I imagine high development was based on Salamanca university which was main university nation wide.
What surprises me is high population in La Mancha, I thought it was sparsely populated area.

Regarding development yes, I also think that development of Castile should be at least some 50 higher. As it's not even funny when Castile fails to be among Great Powers early on and it's not so rare when I see both Poland and Lithuania as separate nations ahead of Castile, or Hungary, Denmark and etc becoming Great Powers, but Castile not. Castile should be clear Great Power nation with provinces it starts.
And high development of Aragon anoys me not from point of comparison to Castile, but in comparison to italian states like Naples or Papal state. All these 3 should be close in development, but now Aragon is twice as big and is just too big blob in Mediterranean area (luckilly it rarely suceeds expanding there).

Some more possibly interesting maps:

2.0.jpg
Mapa provincias del siglo XVIII España.jpg
mapa.jpg
 
Nice stuff! :)
But sadly Soria wasn't twice as populous. It simply included La Rioja in 1594, so you should cut in half 191k population which for 2 provinces is very low number. At least if we compare that Burgos, Castilla La Vieja, Leon (in EUIV boundaries) were all at ~500k as I count and Galicia over 600k. Interestingly I now find out that La Rioja / Logrono had no province in nearly entire EUIV timeline.
And Salamanca boundaries were also bigger in 1594, so it wasn't that populous. I imagine high development was based on Salamanca university which was main university nation wide.
What surprises me is high population in La Mancha, I thought it was sparsely populated area.

Regarding development yes, I also think that development of Castile should be at least some 50 higher. As it's not even funny when Castile fails to be among Great Powers early on and it's not so rare when I see both Poland and Lithuania as separate nations ahead of Castile, or Hungary, Denmark and etc becoming Great Powers, but Castile not. Castile should be clear Great Power nation with provinces it starts.
And high development of Aragon anoys me not from point of comparison to Castile, but in comparison to italian states like Naples or Papal state. All these 3 should be close in development, but now Aragon is twice as big and is just too big blob in Mediterranean area (luckilly it rarely suceeds expanding there).

Some more possibly interesting maps:

View attachment 356224 View attachment 356225 View attachment 356228

I do not know if you're Spanish.

But Ciudad Real (La Mancha) and Albacete if they are depopulated.

According to my study:

-Leon+Ponferrada=Leon
- Burgos + Tierras del Condestable = Burgos
- Trasmiera = Cantabria
-Valladolid+Conde de Benavente= Valladolid
- Asturias=Asturias
-Zamora+Toro=Zamora
-Palencia, Avila, Segovia, Toledo, Guadalajara ...
-Mesa Arzobispal de Toledo= Toledo+Madrid+Guadalajara
-Cuenca+Huete=Cuenca
-Trujillo=Extremadura
-Ciudad Real+Campo de Calatrava= Ciudad Real o La Mancha
- Alcaraz + Campo de Montiel=Albacete
-Castilla Orden Santiago= Toledo+ Ciudad Real+Albacete+Jaen
- Orden de Santiago de Leon= Extremadura+Salamanca
-Murcia=Murcia+ part of Albacete


In short, the largest desert in Castilla were the current lands of Ciudad Real and Albacete