@co_avanya I've been critical of the game because I really do want this game to be the best game possible. I do believe asset editor should be the highest priority as this will give devs at least some breathing room since it will bring us new content. But this is a big piece of people's concerns. I highly suggest you guys make bikes being a plan for the future as free content part of an official announcement on all platforms, even if there's no commitment to a date, as this would harbor some good will with players. I have not seen even so much of a mention about this announcement as part of this post, which 99% of the player base (or potential play base) won't see.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Doing that would then generate a thousand 'Bikes when?' queries on all their channels.
- 4
- 3
- 1
So what? It's better than "new content when?" Or "update when?" In any case we have no specific dates. At least people know what content to expect sometime in the future. It's better than the complete radio silence that has contributed to fearing that development on this game has been abandoned or that CO is doing the bare minimum to meet obligations to ultimate edition customers.
Better "bikes when?" than "communication when?"
- 3
And in any case, this communication is going to get out to the people who care about this game, who are still in those other mediums. By not making an official announcement, paradox and CO is alienating their customer base that does care about them. Personally I assumed bikes would be coming, either as DLC or as a free update. For the first time since the announcement of the pdx mods beta, I'm excited to revisit the game when that and asset editor are here. At the very least, you squash the rumors that CO wants to charge DLC prices for what many consider things that should have been in the base game.
"When is xyz being released?" Is much better than "screw it, I don't care anymore"
"When is xyz being released?" Is much better than "screw it, I don't care anymore"
co_avanya
Community Manager at Colossal Order
Moderator
QA
Community Ambassador
Colossal Order Dev
1 Badges
- Jan 4, 2021
- 2.421
- 5.300
The concern with an announcement is not so much the "Bikes when?" but the expectations for a timeframe it creates. When we announce something there's a feeling of it being "soon" - even if we don't include a timeframe - which would likely end in disappointment when they don't arrive within the time people expect. Announcing something without a timeframe also comes with doubt that we will actually deliver (which I understand), so we'd rather save the announcement for when we can tell you when it's coming. Promises are not how we'll rebuild trust, delivering improvements and new content is the way forward.
I think a roadmap without dates would be enough to make people aware of what is coming over the next few years without committing to specific dates.
For example.
"What we are working now: Asset editor, Console Version, Tourism and other bugs.
What we will work in the future: Bikes, more animations in general, difficulty modes, Etc."
I think this could be an easy solution to improve communication without exposing yourself too much.
For example.
"What we are working now: Asset editor, Console Version, Tourism and other bugs.
What we will work in the future: Bikes, more animations in general, difficulty modes, Etc."
I think this could be an easy solution to improve communication without exposing yourself too much.
- 3
- 1
- 1
This begs a question: if you don't want to announce anything before it's ready, why are the UE and the pass still for sale (and why were they in the first place)? Why are you still selling what you failed to deliver to your paying customers for a year now? There's no psychological excuse there (our "expectations", our "feeling of it being soon"), there's a contractual timeframe fixed by Paradox, not by our imagination.
So this begs another question: as you're still selling DLCs with a delivery timeframe, does it mean they won't be postponed again, ever? Or is this still "pay now, get later, no promises"?
- 11
Because Avanya works at CO and doesn't sell the game. There are people who buy the UE and expansion pass and bring revenue to the publisher (Paradox), that's why they are for sale. Un-announcing it now and re-announcing it later would be absurd.
One is information from the developers (“We plan to include this or that in the game”), the other is marketing and sales on the part of the publisher.
You don't have to like it, which is completely reasonable, but that's the way it is.
- 2
- 2
Since april, CO isn't authorized by PDX to announce anything, with or without an ETA. Avanya repeated it at least on 3 occasions. So when she's writing "we'd rather save the announcement for when we can tell you when it's coming", she's talking about CO/PDX collectively. Because CO can't announce anything anymore but PDX can't announce anything without CO telling them first: "go on with the announcement, we're ready".
So you think refunding the console version buyers last year and telling them to buy it again later when it'll be re-announced is absurd? Same for Prison Architect 2? What's absurd is selling something with a delivery date while not knowing when you'll be able to deliver it. It's dishonest and may expose you to a legal action if you're forced to postpone the delivery.
Nearly all of the UE content (not counting the base game, obviously), has been postponed again. It's now ONE YEAR LATE.
So my question to Avanya is: are these new delivery dates for the UE/pass content 100% guaranteed? Will CO be able to deliver these DLCs to PDX so they can deliver them to their pre-paying customers? Because these delivery dates are PDX expectations, not ours.
- 5
Thank you very much for clarifying such.
Some of us truly appreciate information. Even if it's not what we want.
Please keep pushing forward in spite of the Crockigators!
- 2
- 1
Twisting somebody's every word is absurd.
I talked about the announcement, not about refunds.
So am I and I'm not twisting your "every" word. Two PDX products were un-announced because the delivery date was uncertain. They'll be re-announced when the time comes to release them. The refunds were a consequence of this un-announcement. You can't un-announce a pre-sold product without refunding the buyers.
The CS II DLCs were announced and sold though the delivery date was uncertain. As a matter of fact, they couldn't be delivered and were postponed again and again. They're still announced with a future delivery date, though. Is this date still uncertain or not? If not, why aren't they un-announced and refunded, contrary to the console version and Prison Architect 2?
- 1
Okay, I didn't know that.
The problem, however, is that the UE content is linked to these additional DLCs. If the additional content disappears from the store, what happens to the content of the sold/announced/advertised Ultimate Edition?
Removing the UE from the store completely doesn't make sense either. Then the UE buyers get their money back, but have to buy the game again if they want to play it now, and then buy the additional DLCs later, which is more expensive in total than the money they spent a year ago.
It also makes no sense to compensate the UE buyers with a difference and downgrade the UE to “standard”. If the additional content is available at some point, this content would have to be purchased again.
The easiest thing is to just leave the content in and not un-announce it.
Those who want their money back... well it would be a fine move by PDX to accept refunds. So you can just do one thing: LWYRUP.
- 1
For the third time, that's exactly what PDX has done with the console version of CS II and with Prison Architect 2. Those who pre-paid them were refunded and they'll have to purchase them again. Everywhere in the world, anytime a pre-paid product fail to be delivered as contractually set by the seller, be it cancelled or postponed beyond a reasonable delay, the product is refunded. There's nothing absurd there, it's a routine and it's required by the consumer laws of most countries.
Sure, the easiest thing is to keep selling what you can't deliver and hope nobody will take a legal action. Money first. But wasn't CO/PDX supposed to be willing to regain their customers trust? What a sad joke...
Anyway, my question still stands and I'm not asking you, I'm asking anyone from PDX or CO: is the postponing over? Can you guarantee the current delivery dates of the UE/pass content you're selling and have already been postponing for one full year?
I'm expecting a deafening silence but who knows...
- 4
- 1
That's something different. The console version of CS2 has not (yet) been released, just like Prison Architect 2, so purchases can simply be refunded.
With the CS2 Ultimate Edition, the main part of the product (the base game) is released and can be played by those who have purchased it. Now if PDX comes along and says we'll cancel the UE and you'll get a refund, then what? As a UE buyer, I'm left without a game then and have to buy it again, and if the DLCs come, I have to buy them separately. I wouldn't like that. Let me keep my UE and give me the content when it's available. Done.
- 2
- 2
This whole conversation is becoming very silly. Now you forgot your own idea? Refunding the difference between the UE and the base game? And please don't start again with this absurd "you can't refund them because they could have to buy it again one day".
- 2
- 1
I think my brain just 'sploded... No issue with announcing DLC's and postponing them, but "bikes when" is not a gud idea
&
Do moderators have to jump in to protect/justify choices, or are they here to moderate the forums?
A.k.a. doing their jobs by trimming the forum of unwanted "bikes where" threads (that is what the job of moderation is).
Here is an idea. Use a separate account for moderation. Post "stuff & fluff" with your personal account. It is simply annoying. People can't reply freely to posts like that without the feeling of getting a warning or getting otherwise moderated.
Very unpro, bro...
- 2
With this kind of answer, I assume that my arguments are valid.
I'm not trying to convince you of my opinion. I'm just questioning the plausibility of some of the statements and the feasibility of some of the proposals put forward here.
- 1
I don't want to hijack the thread so this is not to turn into a pubic discussion. Feel free to pm me if you like.
Moderators do moderate the forums, but will also post as regular players (which we all are). Having multiple accounts is against the Code of Conduct. Of course people can freely reply to anyone about anything as long as we all adhere to the Code of Conduct.
- 1
- 1
Only in your imaginary world where buyers can't be refunded for a product not delivered in time.
LOL
- 2