Review of CORE so far?

[unmerged(24027)]

I wanted to write my general impressions of CORE so far.

The CORE team has given us a great gift here, and we should all continue to thank them for their hard work.

I've had no problems with installation nor with running the program. The tech tree and the events are fantastic, and the attention to detail unparralled. It is safe to say that this and Stony Road are the best mods for HOI 2.

The inclusion of India and several other new states is a welcome change. Newfoundland though has no tech trees, no ministers, and only one militia, but hopefully with the coming versions this will change.

All in all, a fantastic release and well worth the wait. Thanks again, and this will only continue to improve!

I'd like to read other people's thoughts as well.

 

[Archangel85]

So far, great. The new tech tree is amazing, if a bit confusing. The new models and brigades give the player the ability to customize his army a lot more then Vanilla, where it was "build highest model and be done with it". A lot of potential here.

 

[unmerged(8076)]

Sometimes I can't stand to look at the tech team for more than a few moments at a time or I get too confused/aggravated. Why is this tech open but not the other? Why won't that one open? I just played as Japan to 1938 and have the following questions/comments:

• Chinese minors are a monster now clocking in at 100 divisions. No more pre-Marco Polo rushing! I had 6 parallel '30 INF and even by the time the Marco Polo event fired I still had less than half the troops they could amass against me.
• During no time was I able to select a Quality/Quantity/Reliable tech, nor any tech from the Electronics tree. In avionics I was unable to select the Civilian techs thus not opening up the NAV/TAC units. Oddly enough, the rest of the techs (INT/CAS/STR) worked fine. I think I wasted time researching Foreign Aircraft though since it gave me a unit I already got and AFAI can read from the tech descrip just saddles me with a ton of mission penalties. I only researched it because none of the other techs were open and I was secretly hoping it would open them up.
• How am I supposed to select the tech for Secret Projects? I have 1000 gold/credits.
• Germany gave me a tech blueprint called Isolationist Country which isn't in the tech tree.
• How do you get Great Depression? Does anyone? I loaded up as USA and JAP and neither were greened in. Similarily, I'm wondering if because JAP has Econ '37 greened in it implies that I am suffering from the Great Depression penalties, or is it all pure benefits?
• What's the difference between a land divisions transportweight variable and a naval transport transportcapability variable? I thought it would've been space on a ship, but then I loaded up three GER '41 medium armor divisions, which have a weight of 30 each, onto the crap level 1 fishing boats everyone starts out with which have a transportcapability of 10. Does it go slower? The starting transport ships are excrutiatingly incapable at their missions, but I don't know if any players will bother going past the first transport tech of "Converted Merchant Ship" since it has the longest range, cheapest cost, and same basic capacity as any other TP. A large liner in comparison is 2.5x more expensive.
• I can intuitively understand and read every single tech tree except for Armor & Artillery. It looks like a circuit board
• Can it be possible to include either a "Requires:" in the tech descriptions to better show the path/progression (for example, if I did indeed need a pre-req tech to get 1930 Electronics / Secret Projects) or failing that, either greening or redding out previous techs which will remain inaccessible? It would not only look much cleaner but show whether the "Quality" tech is truly inaccessible or that "Great Depression" is already greened in.

 

[baylox]

During no time was I able to select a Quality/Quantity/Reliable tech, nor any tech from the Electronics tree. In avionics I was unable to select the Civilian techs thus not opening up the NAV/TAC units. Oddly enough, the rest of the techs (INT/CAS/STR) worked fine. I think I wasted time researching Foreign Aircraft though since it gave me a unit I already got and AFAI can read from the tech descrip just saddles me with a ton of mission penalties. I only researched it because none of the other techs were open and I was secretly hoping it would open them up.

Quality/Quantity/Reliability are not researchable, they are set per country and some countries don't get anything.

I'll need to play a game as Japan to get a feel for their Air Techs, but generally speaking they should have the Military Design choices, not the Conversions (these two paths are either/or). Foreign Aircraft are there for minor nations wanting some airplanes, but as Japan you shouldn't have to go that route. These should, however, activate Military Design or Conversions at the second or third step. The penalties are there to separate them from regular doctrines.

How am I supposed to select the tech for Secret Projects? I have 1000 gold/credits.

Electronics research, but because Japan isn't Fully Industrialized they aren't allowed to progress far on Electronics (or need other, advanced, industry techs to open it up).

Germany gave me a tech blueprint called Isolationist Country which isn't in the tech tree.

Yeah it's hidden, but Germany shouldn't have it either. That's a mistake on my part and will get fixed for next version.

How do you get Great Depression? Does anyone? I loaded up as USA and JAP and neither were greened in. Similarily, I'm wondering if because JAP has Econ '37 greened in it implies that I am suffering from the Great Depression penalties, or is it all pure benefits?

That sounds strange... Japan shouldn't have access to the Depression, nor the Recovery techs, but the US should start with Depression and be able to proceed down the Economic recovery path. The files list the US as getting them, so there might be something wrong with your installation if they don't.

I can intuitively understand and read every single tech tree except for Armor & Artillery. It looks like a circuit board

It's getting a serious overhaul for the next version because of this very problem.

Can it be possible to include either a "Requires:" in the tech descriptions to better show the path/progression (for example, if I did indeed need a pre-req tech to get 1930 Electronics / Secret Projects) or failing that, either greening or redding out previous techs which will remain inaccessible? It would not only look much cleaner but show whether the "Quality" tech is truly inaccessible or that "Great Depression" is already greened in.[/list]

We'll have to look at this, but the FAQ I posted on 21vikings.dk recently will or should have such information. There are no good ways of displaying it in-game, hence my numerous requests to Paradox about pop-up tool-tips for the tech screens.

Hope that answers your questions - let me know if you find something else, and thanks for the bug spotting!

 

[unmerged(8076)]

Haha, thanks for the prompt reply Baylox. I guess I wasted my night playing a borked installation. Time to reinstall!

 

[baylox]

Note that it is in a rough stage at the moment, some things aren't working as they should and some are just a bit strange at the moment.

 

[Fiestacat]

Another question. I've been playing around with the US, and so far so good. After a bit of puzzling and about an hour of reading the tech trees on paused, I can say you did a good job, but I still have some questions.


1. What exactly is the difference between the corps/division/army/classic army techs and how do they impact what you build, and are these pick and choose, or is it like the qual/quant/reliability in the sense that some get them, other don't?

2. What's the difference between corps and army level in the infantry tree? The US seems predisposed towards corps, but I can't see any differences in the army tree as far as effects go, just what specialties are used.

3. The "labor reform" tech seems to be part of the military restoration industrial path, why does it DECREASE manpower growth by 10%, and what motivation is there to even choose it? Also, is the military buildup path a way to immediate industrial gains while the industrial path takes longer but comes out stronger in the end, or are there other checks and balances?

 

[baylox]

3. The "labor reform" tech seems to be part of the military restoration industrial path, why does it DECREASE manpower growth by 10%, and what motivation is there to even choose it? Also, is the military buildup path a way to immediate industrial gains while the industrial path takes longer but comes out stronger in the end, or are there other checks and balances?

I can only reply to point 3 here. It decreases manpower to simulate an influx of potential recruits to factories and such, to basically establish a more solid labor foundation (this then allows women to take over, as jobs are detailed and training programmes have been established - instead of working in a more ad hoc fashion). The motivation to choose it is that it leads to Women in the Workforce, which gives 20% increase in manpower. It is recommended to research Women in the Workforce as soon as possible after Labor reform.
As for military/economic paths comparison you're right on the money. Military is quick, but economic ends up stronger. Economic path is also less diverse in skills and thus somewhat easier to research than military (even if it focuses on management more, which some nations lack).

 

[Fiestacat]

I can only reply to point 3 here. It decreases manpower to simulate an influx of potential recruits to factories and such, to basically establish a more solid labor foundation (this then allows women to take over, as jobs are detailed and training programmes have been established - instead of working in a more ad hoc fashion). The motivation to choose it is that it leads to Women in the Workforce, which gives 20% increase in manpower. It is recommended to research Women in the Workforce as soon as possible after Labor reform.
As for military/economic paths comparison you're right on the money. Military is quick, but economic ends up stronger. Economic path is also less diverse in skills and thus somewhat easier to research than military (even if it focuses on management more, which some nations lack).

Thanks for your prompt reply.

So wait. As the US, i have the economic rebuilding part, I can research women in the workforce but I do not have to research Labour Reforms, is labour reforms a military rebuiling only bit to equal out the fact that mil rebuild 36 37 and 38 only subtract 3% of manpower growth each, where economical subtracts 5? (this would put mil rebuilding at -19% manpower and economic rebuilding at -15% manpower, and then +20% for both from women in the workforce)

 

[baylox]

Thanks for your prompt reply.

So wait. As the US, i have the economic rebuilding part, I can research women in the workforce but I do not have to research Labour Reforms, is labour reforms a military rebuiling only bit to equal out the fact that mil rebuild 36 37 and 38 only subtract 3% of manpower growth each, where economical subtracts 5? (this would put mil rebuilding at -19% manpower and economic rebuilding at -15% manpower, and then +20% for both from women in the workforce)

You got it! Good deduction. For an accurate Manpower calculation you also need to weigh in the fact that Economic can have Women in the Workforce in 1938 (or earlier, of course, this is just the historical year), while Military doesn't have Labor reform until 1940. That's a bunch of manpower in those years!

 

[Fiestacat]

You got it! Good deduction. For an accurate Manpower calculation you also need to weigh in the fact that Economic can have Women in the Workforce in 1938 (or earlier, of course, this is just the historical year), while Military doesn't have Labor reform until 1940. That's a bunch of manpower in those years!

Right, that makes a bunch more sense now!

Also, this may or may not be a bug, but as the US I've opted not to go for the aid to nationalist china, yet it gave me a popup "the flying tigers" where it said the chinese through claire chennault are asking for my aid.
But the team Claire Chennault shouldn't have even been released if I did not aid them, and hence, this flying tigers popup shouldn't take place, either, should it?

And another question, since you seem to be the air guru, could you explain to me why certain techs don't unlock immediately? Plotting and filter room seems to be one of them, as well as developed night operations. Is there an interdependancy to another tech branch, or have you opted to seal them off until certain years to avoid powerteching ahead?

 

[baylox]

Right, that makes a bunch more sense now!

Also, this may or may not be a bug, but as the US I've opted not to go for the aid to nationalist china, yet it gave me a popup "the flying tigers" where it said the chinese through claire chennault are asking for my aid.
But the team Claire Chennault shouldn't have even been released if I did not aid them, and hence, this flying tigers popup shouldn't take place, either, should it?

And another question, since you seem to be the air guru, could you explain to me why certain techs don't unlock immediately? Plotting and filter room seems to be one of them, as well as developed night operations. Is there an interdependancy to another tech branch, or have you opted to seal them off until certain years to avoid powerteching ahead?

I haven't had much game time with the Flying Tigers chain, despite writing it, so there may be some odd ends there. I'll take a look.

As for techs not activating - that's because they need other-category techs (something we can't show in a good way). Most often this is some kind of Radar tech (as in the case of Plotting Room). This is to emphasize diversity and to prevent tech rushing.

 

[unmerged(36342)]

Needa FAQ on the tech tree, I am dizzy.

 

[De Savage]

Needa FAQ on the tech tree, I am dizzy.

Yeah, same here! I'm little confused what to research and build. FAQ is really needed. Thank God it's friday! Whole weekend to play and test CORE2.

 

[unmerged(11202)]

My limited experience sofar has been with Germany till mid '38.

First it is difficult to find out everything with the techs, I cannot seem to figure out how I can get better transport planes with Germany.

Also I ran across some problems deploying brigades. I wanted to rearrange the brigades I started with and detached them from their respective divisions. Only when I select an infantry division and want to attach a brigade only anti-air shows up. However I can deploy other brigades via the deploy unit button, but then it is rather difficult to get the brigade linked with the division of my choice, especially if there are divisions with the same name.

Finally I have had a succesfull anshluss of Austria, but I have not received any cores and I am stuck with rather high partisan levels there now. Is this WAD and supposed to happen? I thought the Nazis had no troubles in occupying Austria?

 

[baylox]

My limited experience sofar has been with Germany till mid '38.

First it is difficult to find out everything with the techs, I cannot seem to figure out how I can get better transport planes with Germany.

1938 and 1940 Strategic Conversions.

Finally I have had a succesfull anshluss of Austria, but I have not received any cores and I am stuck with rather high partisan levels there now. Is this WAD and supposed to happen? I thought the Nazis had no troubles in occupying Austria?

Being fixed for next version - oversight by me when I rewrote the chain.

(Sorry for the short answers - a lot to get through here!)

 

[Myth]

this would put mil rebuilding at -19% manpower and economic rebuilding at -15% manpower, and then +20% for both from women in the workforce

You got it! Good deduction. For an accurate Manpower calculation you also need to weigh in the fact that Economic can have Women in the Workforce in 1938 (or earlier, of course, this is just the historical year), while Military doesn't have Labor reform until 1940. That's a bunch of manpower in those years!

why would a military power even bother with researching labor reform and then women in the work force? it is a net gain of 1% manpower, which doesn't (to me) seem worth the time of having a grand total of -19% mp between researching labor reform and women in the workforce.

 

[McNaughton]

1. What exactly is the difference between the corps/division/army/classic army techs and how do they impact what you build, and are these pick and choose, or is it like the qual/quant/reliability in the sense that some get them, other don't?

These techs are selected for each nation, depending on the tech, it sleeps certain divisions (thereby allowing you to build certain other ones only). This is the only way we can have different land divisions from nation to nation, having the models slept per tech.

2. What's the difference between corps and army level in the infantry tree? The US seems predisposed towards corps, but I can't see any differences in the army tree as far as effects go, just what specialties are used.
[/QUOTE]

Well, realistically, nothing. I had plans to make them different, but, time ran out, so realistically, researching either will give you the same result. I am revamping the Armour and Infantry trees to make them easier to understand, and a bit more logical in their design and game results.

 

[baylox]

why would a military power even bother with researching labor reform and then women in the work force? it is a net gain of 1% manpower, which doesn't (to me) seem worth the time of having a grand total of -19% mp between researching labor reform and women in the workforce.

I'm not sure I understand... Labor reform gives -10% Manpower (or rather, affects the Manpower modifier with -10%) and Women... gives +20%. That gives a net result of +10%.

 

[Myth]

no, nevermind. I just realized where my mistake was