Sectors really that broken?

[mattwarren]

So Ive starrted playing recently, never played a paradox strategy game before.

Finally started to get what seems to be a good game going, and I'm at the point I need to start using sectors.

I didnt realise it would happen so soon; and after reading peoples opinions of them here I feel kinda dishertened. Are they really as broke as people make out? But I'm forced to use them? I don't really wanna be trying to play a broken game, even though I'm having fun so far.

 

[GamerSteve]

They're not so broken that the game can't be played.

They are more annoying to people like me who have mild OCD about their planets and want to min-max everything. Sector govs are not going to do that for you.

Early on, when you are expanding rather slowly (because there's no other way to do it early), you can build out your worlds and put your developed ones into sectors so they are already how you like them. Later when your core is full and you conquer 6 worlds at once you will not be able to do that, so you'll need to start 'trusting' the sector governors more and more. They'll do OK for you, but not great, and definitely they won't do exactly what you, as a human, would want to do.

But it's OK... again it's not game-breaking, just annoying to people who want to have more ironclad control over their empire.

 

[Aotrs Commander]

Alternatively, if you are not achievment hunting or something like that, you can go and find a mod like the Flexible Core Planet Cap & Resettlement Cost mod which basically allows you to set a (free) edict to increase your core system counts by a variable amount. (Which is what I did, allowing me to manage all of my planets myself.)

 

[mattwarren]

Ahh interesting. I hadn't looked at the mods yet, I might check that out and do them myself for a while before I hand them over to the game. Are there any disadvantages to using a MOD for it, other than achievements and the inevitable micro I'll have to do ?

 

[Madzai]

But it's OK... again it's not game-breaking, just annoying to people who want to have more ironclad control over their empire.

It pretty much depend on that type of Empire you play. Slavery require a lot of pre-work for Sectors, otherwise you'll be stuck with constant rebellions, while some Individualistic free-migration Empires are rather OK. But Sectors still mostly "works" because the general AI-opponents are as weak as Sectors AI is.

 

[Aotrs Commander]

Ahh interesting. I hadn't looked at the mods yet, I might check that out and do them myself for a while before I hand them over to the game. Are there any disadvantages to using a MOD for it, other than achievements and the inevitable micro I'll have to do ?

That simple mod? No, not reallty. I mean, obviously it means you have to manage all your planets yourself (but as far as I was concerned, that was the point), but it doesn't stop you putting planets into sectors if you want to (all it does is allow you to volentarily raise your core planet cap - I didn't even bother with using any of the resettlement stuff cost edicts that come with it); so if you do get fed-up, you can still shunt stuff off to sectors.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Are they really as broke as people make out?.

No, nothing is ever as bad as the Internet says it is. The Internet only communicates in hyperbole.

Sectors work ok as long as you start them off with at least one reasonably developed planet and keep them a reasonable size (5-8 planets).

It is quite annoying how early you have to use them, and I still think the core cap should start at 8 not 5, but they're not game breaking in any way.

 

[TempusxX]

Alternatively, if you are not achievment hunting or something like that, you can go and find a mod like the Flexible Core Planet Cap & Resettlement Cost mod which basically allows you to set a (free) edict to increase your core system counts by a variable amount. (Which is what I did, allowing me to manage all of my planets myself.)

another mod that adds more core planets that you can use is either New Ship Classes and More or Improved Space Battles (ISB) I use these 2 both along many others and I have a core starting planets of 10 before even having to have a sector

 

[Kryndude]

They're not so broken that the game can't be played.

They are more annoying to people like me who have mild OCD about their planets and want to min-max everything. Sector govs are not going to do that for you.

Early on, when you are expanding rather slowly (because there's no other way to do it early), you can build out your worlds and put your developed ones into sectors so they are already how you like them. Later when your core is full and you conquer 6 worlds at once you will not be able to do that, so you'll need to start 'trusting' the sector governors more and more. They'll do OK for you, but not great, and definitely they won't do exactly what you, as a human, would want to do.

But it's OK... again it's not game-breaking, just annoying to people who want to have more ironclad control over their empire.

Sorry for going off topic but I must ask; do you specialize your planets or do you follow the tile resources? I want to know what other min-maxers think of the matter.

 

[Seryss]

Sorry for going off topic but I must ask; do you specialize your planets or do you follow the tile resources? I want to know what other min-maxers think of the matter.

I don't min-max to the extreme, but at the beginning of the game, planets that i colonize follow tile resources. For enemy planets that i've conquered, and enslaved i remove all labs, and place mines and mineral production support buildings (slave processing, silos, processing facility) on everything that isn't energy, on energy i place 1 hub, and power plant the rest. After the planet is max pop i replace the food tiles with mines, because slave happiness isn't relevant.

If the planet in question offers a significant bonus to minerals or energy all free tiles will go towards maxing out that bonus (everything on a 25/50% mineral world is dedicated to minerals, no power plants, etc.) Science is a little trickier because only my pops are used for research so that limits the planets i can use for awhile.

I continue to colonize 60%+ 20+ tile worlds for my own pops that are dedicated toward energy and research, i follow tiles for those two resources, but will place labs/power plants over minerals.

This is mostly for a slaver non spiritualist empire.

 

[Qilue]

First, note that I modded the core planet limit to 500. I hate sectors or anything else that takes control of "my" empire.

I have a standard pattern I use for all planets so that losing a few will impact production evenly and it's easier to do large numbers of them consistently.
Enough food, follow energy tile resource, set of labs x (planetsize/3, round up to nearest 3)(set = one of each type), follow mineral tile resource, rest energy.
Mixed resource tiles are mines for mineral/food unless I'm short on food tiles and power plant for energy/mineral.
If short on space, I'll use mineral tiles for power plants or labs.

 

[GamerSteve]

Enough food, follow energy tile resource, set of labs x (planetsize/3, round up to nearest 3)(set = one of each type), follow mineral tile resource, rest energy.

I am a little confused by this. You say that you do 1 set of labs x planetsize / 3. But you also say 1 set - one of each type. There are 3 types. So a set is a set of 3. If you do 1 set x planetsize / 3, isn't that a lab on every single tile? E.g., if you have a planet of size 9, then planetsize / 3 = 3. And 3 sets of 3 labs would be 9 labs. How would that lave you space to do food, energy tile resources, etc?

 

[NicoH]

I never saw a problem with sectors. They do I decent job for my playstyle.

 

[scaper12123]

I've never really felt that sectors are broken. People just say that because they can't control them in any way, shape, or form. It's more of an issue of making your nation as efficient as possible rather than any technical problems (although technical problems do exist, like the removal of certain building types in unusual cases or mass enslavement of a planet's population). I do sometimes feel like there should be some way to directly influence sector planets (like incurring an influence cost to occasionally be able to do something to a sector, like installing a special building), but as it stands they're pretty good.

The only thing you really should be concerned about with sectors is the agency with which they construct buildings, which varies depending on their income. My advice is, before handing a planet off to a sector, you install basic-level buildings in as many spots as you can manage and leave the sector with the responsibility of upgrading/managing them. It's difficult to do this in the early game but it's a very useful tactic in the mid-late game.

 

[xMer]

Major issues with sectors that current AI is unable to handle:
1. slavery it was so bad that devs decide for workaround "enslave all aliens" in sectors. It's pretty common that enslaved pop work on science and free pop work on food.
2. robots, similar issues as with slaves. It's not uncommon that robots do science/energy when happy pop produce minerals.
3. food management, sectors keep high excessive food even on full planets. it's quite annoying to discover planet with 20+ food and full population.
4. pop distribution, sectors often sent pops with bonuses to other stuff while tile is worked by other pop with bonuses for other stuff. and simple exchange of 2 pops would increase productivity of both tiles by 20%
5. building arrangement/adjacency bonuses. if planet have some adjacency like capital or native enclaves then AI decide to ignore them. sometime it get lucky to utilize bonuses sometime not.
6. happiness, AI really like to screw with happiness on planets. either by overbuilding happiness stuff or razing it and causing planet to be unhappy.
7. space constructions, small/medium sectors seems to handle space construction well. but if you build larger sector then it could take ages till it make space installations running.

There is probably much more things that sectors handle badly or in idiotic way that just doesn't come into my mind.

Unfortunately Devs are not responsive to suggestions or other discussion on how to solve existing issues in game.

 

[Qilue]

I am a little confused by this. You say that you do 1 set of labs x planetsize / 3. But you also say 1 set - one of each type. There are 3 types. So a set is a set of 3. If you do 1 set x planetsize / 3, isn't that a lab on every single tile? E.g., if you have a planet of size 9, then planetsize / 3 = 3. And 3 sets of 3 labs would be 9 labs. How would that lave you space to do food, energy tile resources, etc?

I typed that wrong, but it should have been obvious.
25-19 - 9 labs
18 or less - 6 labs

 

[Agamemnic]

Sectors are more or less WAD now. The problem is the 'D'....the devs included many design mechanics they thought the player would appreciate/enjoy but are actually just plain frustrating

1. Most player here are of the 'hardcore' variety and embrace optimisation to the fullest. The fact that sectors do very inefficient and sub-optimal things at times really just
2. This

But yeah apart from the game design issues, sectors are still doing buggy crap stemming from general AI problems e.g. everything xMer said

EDIT: just to demonstrate on point 1, the sector (and indeed the AI) will almost always build a shield generator on every planet. Massive waste of resources for some as they would argue that extra 50% planetary defence doesn't really slow down a siege by much.

 

[terrycloth]

They should give the shield generator some sort of economic benefit, like they did with the special buildings from the Horizon Signal event.

 

[Tim_Ward]

There's also the kind of ass backwards way the game encourages you to use them, from the perspective of an anti-micro tool.

Think about it. What worlds need least care from the player? What worlds could you happily hand off to the AI without worrying it's going to make a mess of things?

Your home-world, and your oldest colonies. One the layout of the tiles is decided, all that really needs doing from a management perspective is upgrade buildings once the tech becomes available.

And which worlds need most care and attention from the player? Your newest colonies, the young outlying worlds, recent conquests and that one planet you colonized a long way from your space for Strategic Reasons.

And what worlds does the game encourage, even require, you to keep as core worlds and which ones to assigned to sectors?

That's right. The ones that least need the player to look after them have to stay as core worlds and the ones that most need the player to look after them to have to be farmed off to sectors.

And if you don't do it that? If you put your most developed inner colonies into sectors so you can micro your new colonies, then... that's your most productive worlds flinging resources into oblivion, isn't it? As well as your best space ports hidden behind the Well Of Torment, also known as the Planets and Sectors window - probably the most obnoxious fucking UI element in the game, after the create new fleet window. And that kind of micro trickery is firmly discouraged by the stupid 25 influence cost** you get for removing systems from sectors.

It is not just AI bugs, the whole concept around sectors is just... wrong. It doesn't work. They simply don't do what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to reduce frustration***, but all they do is increase it. Multiply it, even. Anyone else put off colonising planet number 6 because it means you'll have to start dealing with sectors? I do. And I don't even like micromanaging things. I like the sector concept in principle, and I'm not bothered by not being able to min-max every last planet. I don't even like the tile system; the tile system is probably my single biggest problem with the game, but I'd still rather deal with it than bloody sectors.

The entire system - tile management, sectors, the whole economy - must be reworked. Not tinkered with around the edges. Not just adding more options for the sector AI to only enslave aliens on a Tuesday and build robots when the moon is waxing gibbous. Not more AI fixes. Completely reworked, so it adds to the game and doesn't detract from it.

* I know you can give sectors resources, but they give you absolutely no feedback when they're short on monies so you have to keep manually checking the fucking "Planets and Sectors" window, which I hate with a furious passion.
** otherwise known as the 'fuck you for trying to play our game' mechanic
*** oh and the fact that the planetary management system is frustrating is also a problem that needs to be addressed

 

[Wizzington]

No.