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Shattered Retreat, Coalitions And Lordly Councils

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Voldurak78

Voldurak78

First Lieutenant
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Jun 9, 2014
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Are the shattered retreat and coalitions going to be implemented in the mod ? and, from my experience in Conclave, it seems that lords now aspire to get a position in the council, so how are we going to please them and have a council with Varys and other landless geniuses ?
 
Hopefully the "small council member" honorary titles should suffice. I haven't played vanilla since the patch (waiting for the next one probably coming this week) but I've heard kings and emperors get a couple extra "meaningless" council spots left to appease powerful lords with useless stats.
 
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Your council is your main councillors, and kings also get an extra advisor minor title (emperors get two advisor minor titles to hand out) to give to rulers you don't want anywhere near any of the actual chancellor/steward/etc. positions. Your "most powerful vassals" will have fairly significant opinion modifiers if they don't end up on said council.

Probably the biggest issue I can see is with the megawar system, as your most powerful vassals will tend to break away during wars, meaning the list of your "most powerful vassals" will change, and then go back to what it was before after the war ends, complicating council composition.
 
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I think I read somewhere that the council membership-related minor titles are modable, which to me implies that there's a tag applied to them that lets you mark a title as one that provides a seat on the council on top of the obvious ability to change the number of said spots on the council if modders want. This, combined with the fact that the team making this mod has already proven that minor titles can automatically be given out to the holders of the kingdom-tier titles under the King on the Iron Throne after a megawar ends (the Warden titles), suggests that it'd perhaps be possible to have each kingdom-tier title have a minor title associated with it that gives a seat on the council and is automatically given to the proper holders after a megawar, or make it so that the current holder of a council position prior to a war is given a specific flag so when the megawar ends, a specific event automatically gives them their previous council position back. On the other side of things, perhaps the Warden titles could be used for the same purpose since each is traditionally held by a LP anyways? This would provide a guaranteed seat on the council for four of the LPs, and with three "Small Council Member" minor/honorary titles, that's seven of the eight LPs accounted for if they all have to be on the council. The only problem is you'd have a very large council as the ruler of the Iron Throne no matter which option is used.

Edit: I just checked the files, adding the line "is_voter = yes" to a minor title makes it give a vote on the council, so keeping them happy would, in theory, be as easy as adding that line to the small council honorary titles, which would lead to 8 council members on its own.
 
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I would think that the Wardens themselves would be considered a smaller council title, as not all of them are gonna be individuals with stats you may want to have in actual council positions like Hand of the King, Master of Laws etc.

Those positions could be more or less the rotating council and the LPs would be placated by their warden titles.
 
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I have no idea if this can be replicated in game, but usually The North and The Iron Isles like to keep to themselves because we don't see much of their lords sitting on the Small Council. Perhaps a little coding can make their ambition to be on the council lower than the Prince/Princess of Dorne and the other Lord Paramounts?
 
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SBerger said:
I have no idea if this can be replicated in game, but usually The North and The Iron Isles like to keep to themselves because we don't see much of their lords sitting on the Small Council. Perhaps a little coding can make their ambition to be on the council lower than the Prince/Princess of Dorne and the other Lord Paramounts?
Click to expand...

Yeah I seriously doubt some Greyjoy is gonna actively seek to be in service to someone they view as a heathen and a tyrant. In fact, petitioning someone is not very much like the ironborn at all.
 
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Wandering Sentinel said:
I think I read somewhere that the council membership-related minor titles are modable, which to me implies that there's a tag applied to them that lets you mark a title as one that provides a seat on the council on top of the obvious ability to change the number of said spots on the council if modders want. This, combined with the fact that the team making this mod has already proven that minor titles can automatically be given out to the holders of the kingdom-tier titles under the King on the Iron Throne after a megawar ends (the Warden titles), suggests that it'd perhaps be possible to have each kingdom-tier title have a minor title associated with it that gives a seat on the council and is automatically given to the proper holders after a megawar, or make it so that the current holder of a council position prior to a war is given a specific flag so when the megawar ends, a specific event automatically gives them their previous council position back. On the other side of things, perhaps the Warden titles could be used for the same purpose since each is traditionally held by a LP anyways? This would provide a guaranteed seat on the council for four of the LPs, and with three "Small Council Member" minor/honorary titles, that's seven of the eight LPs accounted for if they all have to be on the council. The only problem is you'd have a very large council as the ruler of the Iron Throne no matter which option is used.

Edit: I just checked the files, adding the line "is_voter = yes" to a minor title makes it give a vote on the council, so keeping them happy would, in theory, be as easy as adding that line to the small council honorary titles, which would lead to 8 council members on its own.
Click to expand...

is_voter=yes changes the number of councillors listed in the council tab?
 
"is_voter = yes" more or less makes an honorary/minor title into a position on the council: it's what gives anyone with the "council advisor" minor/honorary title a seat on the council. The up side to this is you can make as many council positions as you want to have, but the bad news is each of these titles means one more voter on the council, making it more difficult to get anything done if you're unpopular.
 
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Wandering Sentinel said:
"is_voter = yes" more or less makes an honorary/minor title into a position on the council: it's what gives anyone with the "council advisor" minor/honorary title a seat on the council. The up side to this is you can make as many council positions as you want to have, but the bad news is each of these titles means one more voter on the council, making it more difficult to get anything done if you're unpopular.
Click to expand...

I wonder if the UI can handle this or if its hardcoded to a certain limit.
 
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My guess is we'd have a minor issue like what's already experienced when using the mod: eight of the council seats and their occupants would be shown and then you'd have to scroll down to see the others.
 
I don't know that it's not in-line with lore to expand the small council during certain periods of unrest. Didn't Cersei and Tywin essentially double the number of sitting members (I believe I remember a Tyrion chapter where he notes that people have to stand after the Reach lords get their seats)
 
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Well, if we stop to think about it, we have the seven councilors with specific duties, the three Small council honorary titles for 10 total, and then perhaps you could count the Wardens (on the argument that as the heads of the army within their regions giving them a say at least in regards to war and defense) you'd have a total of 14 positions. This is just the people that seem like they'd have to be part of the council, but I'll acknowledge I don't really know who was on the council and who wasn't.
 
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As far as I know, you can only make minor/honorary titles council positions. The High Septon can't be forced onto your council simply because he's the High Septon, he can only hold a seat on the council if you give him one.
 
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