As usual Bertrada is correct. Pepin did not fall very far from the tree. Thank you for the update
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I see echoes of Helen's wedding in Betrada's justification for Pepin's betrothal.
Oh damn! Bertrada really went there, that will definitely leave a mark no matter the outcome.
Also, just in general, this was an especially well-written chapter, keep up the great work!
Oh damn! Bertrada really went there, that will definitely leave a mark no matter the outcome.
Also, just in general, this was an especially well-written chapter, keep up the great work!
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Yeah Bertrada throwing... that in Karloman's face was something I've wanted to do for a while. It would feel cheap if I didn't explore the ongoing tensions of that more thoroughly, particularly at moments when the relationship with Karloman gets strained or difficult, It's the original sin that set the story into motion, the basic point of divergence from real OTL for the whole narrative and the reason for Bertrada and Karloman's whole dynamic as well as a lot of Karloman's general... well, thing most of the time. He always feels both the resentment and the guilt of that conflict and the way it ended, and it mars his whole adult life from that point on, as such a massive life-changing event should.
I really didn't want to feel like I'd cheaped out of continually returning to explore that that, even as the Emperor and his mother are still, usually, on the same side. I'm really glad you seemed to think the chapter worked well as I was pretty happy with how it went too after a couple of re-writes to get it to the point I was happy with
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Cancer would run away from Bertrada screaming if it ever tried to come carry her off...
I'm working on another post, obviously, but I've written a little bit ahead again, which I like, so it'll only be a day or two till I've edited things enough to be happy with them. Thanks for your patience
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Bertrada continues to be a very formidable woman despite her age, I second Karloman's thinking, whatever Pepin the Short saw in her must have been quite a tale. She kinda reminds me of Olenna Tyrell now that I think about it.
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Yeah, now that you mention it, she is kind of giving that vibe off isn't she?
RIP Diana Rigg btw, fantastic performer
Next up we'll be turning our attention to some events both East and South
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Elodie de Valois, the minor noblewoman whom Crown Prince Pepin risked a great deal to wed, against the wishes of many in his family...
786.
Pepin was finally pulled from his suite four days after his first defiance of his father. He was summoned, not shackled, but still notably under guard to his father’s private rooms.
He found Karloman there, standing in his study, back towards him as he entered the room.
Karloman dismissed the guards from the room. Pepin was surprised at his father’s look. Karloman’s eyes were bloodshot and cold, with dark circles beneath them, he had clearly been, if not sleepless, then at least deprived of his normal sleeping hours. He felt a twinge of guilt at this.
Karloman gazed at him for several long moments before speaking.
“Have you reconsidered the wisdom of marrying Berenger’s girl?” Karloman asked him.
Slowly, Pepin shook his head. “No father. I stand by my decision.”
His father regarded him for another long moment. “You are sure then? This is what you have chosen?”
“It is,” Pepin nodded, “I want Elodie to be my wife and Empress.”
“Hmm,” his father grunted. “At least you are no craven. To stand firm in the face of opposition is a brave act. But bravery and recklessness are separated by a thin line,” he glared slightly at his son. “I hope you understand how much of a pickle you put us in through this action.”
Pepin had the grace to look a little embarrassed. “Not my intention, father. While I do not regret my decision, I do regret it was done in a way that obviously caused consternation.”
“It may cause more,” Karloman warned him. “With… advice from my council, I have made my decision of what is to be done. If it is truly your will to marry Berenger’s girl, then you will be permitted to do so.”
Pepin couldn’t believe his ears. “What?”
“Berenger’s girl is yours, if you want her.” His father replied wearily. “Though if there are consequences, you will be responsible for fixing them.”
“You mean?...”
“Yes.” Karloman replied gravely, “You may marry her, in the new year at the latest. You may take her as your wife, and if the Italian lords complain, or the Frankish lords, or if rebellious sentiments flare as a consequence, I will dispatch you to quell it. If there is diplomatic issues caused by it, you will be sent to fix them. I will announce this decision as though it has my blessing to the lords, but the consequences, if they result, will be yours.”
“So… you will grant your blessing?”
“Only because the alternative is worse,” Karloman stressed, looking away. “You did an extremely foolish thing, but me being foolish in return will not resolve the conundrum you place us in.” He snapped his face back to his son. “You are no longer a child however, you are the heir to the Empire, and it is time you were treated as one. Make your mistake, and learn the costs of them yourself. I shall not interfere.”
Pepin stood at eye-level to his father now, his height almost slightly eclipsing the Emperor. “It is no mistake Father,” he replied confidently, “I shall prove it. Our marriage will be happy and fruitful, as any good one should be. I shall show it.”
“We shall see,” the Emperor replied, sounding unconvinced. “Be off with you then, I will have more work for you later today. Go and speak with your bride-to-be for starters, inform her of the happy news.”
Recognising that as a dismissal, Pepin chose not to press on his father’s patience anymore. He was still slightly dazed at his father’s acquiesance.
Whatever grandmother Bertrada did, I owe her thanks. I have no idea how she got father to agree to it,
Yet agree his father did. He was true to his word, and the Prince’s engagement was announced. Howls of outrage greeted the decision from the Italian nobles, with many have expected that one of their own would be chosen. Even some of the Frankish lords muttered and looked in askance at the choice, though their loyalty to Karloman’s judgement was stronger given his battlefield victories and being the core of the Empire.
But Karloman was true to his word, when a council of Italian nobles demanded that the Emperor answer their concerns about the future direction of the Empire, in light of his decision about the marriage, it was Pepin and his new bride-to-be who was dispatched to answer them, Pepin who, as 786 turned into 787, went over the Alps with his bride to be… and his grandmother, who ‘volunteered’ to accompany the new couple and assist them in their venture. Whether Karloman had authorised this move, or even whether he cared, was a question Pepin did not deign to ask…
Extract from The 780s and Beyond: The Carolingian Renaissance and it’s effects on Western Europe.
And it was in the late 780s that our remaining sources begin to indicate the broader cultural and educational shift that accompanied the largest cultural renaissance since the decline of the Western Roman Empire. With much of Western Europe now politically united under a single entity, new works of art, culture, education, styles of fashion and linguistic and technological developments began to proceed apace. For the Emperor, the promotion of an educational grammar system for children of the nobility was of particular importance. A well-educated King in an era where literacy was rare even among nobility, it was Karloman’s insistence on the development of this system that spurred the development of the first broadly educated ruling class in the post-Roman history of Western Europe.
Culturally, the Frankish languages and cultural traditions began their prolonged shift during this period, becoming less Germanic and more recognisably “French” in the medieval sense. Moving further away from their Germanic roots was appropriate for the mostly Frankish ruling elites, as they now ruled over an enormous, multi-ethnic empire with a huge array of languages within its borders. New court fashions also began to crop up around the Imperial court in Paris, that began to demonstrate a transition away from the more practical fashions of Frankish warrior lords to a more sedate, elaborate style that would become the medieval fashion.
But it was in the areas of the law, political unity and the preservation of historical works that the Carolingian Renaissance had its greatest effect, as the copying of historical works in monasteries continued in safety under a united political entity…
787.
For much of the year, the Emperor and Crown Prince were on separate ends of the Empire. Pepin was sent into Italy in December of the prior year, on a diplomatic trip to bolster imperial relations with the restive lords of Northern Italy. Unofficially, Karloman made clear that Pepin undertaking his marriage away from the formality of the Imperial court would reduce the amount of scandal and interest, making it easier for Karloman to manage.
Bertrada had chosen to travel with them, though whether at her own instigation or Karloman’s Pepin did not know. But back in Paris, the Emperor was dealing with word from the east…
Paris, February 787.
The embassage that arrived from Constantinopolis brought welcome news, and a surprise guest…
“I had not thought to see you travelling west again.” Karloman told her.
Eirene smiled, “I come as an Empress this time, not as a deposed claimant. It is a better visit.”
“Much better,” Karloman agreed, smiling. It was unsurprising that he was in such a good mood, Eirene was just the kind of wife ideal for Karloman… a wife who didn’t irritate him, handled her own business, and lived far enough away he didn’t need to bother himself about her too often. But her visit had surprised him.
“You have something you want I presume?”
“After a fashion,” she replied, “Though it will benefit us both, as well as your Pontiff in Rome.”
“I am listening, proceed.”
Eirene nodded. “I intend to call for a new ecumenical council, attended by all branches of the Christian Church, to resolve once and for all the Iconoclast issue. I have harassed and pursued them thus far, and eliminated some of the stronger factions in the Empire, but many within my domains still seek to hold to this heresy.”
“You hope the council will formally outlaw Iconoclasm.” Karloman replied, it was not a question.
“Correct,” she nodded, “And if I have the backing of the representatives of the Bishop of Rome and the Western Emperor as well, that will strengthen the case made by my supporters that Iconoclasm is a heresy to be stamped out.”
“I and His Holiness shall of course send representatives, if that’s what you wish of me…” Karloman replied cautiously, though I must ask for something in return.”
“What?” Eirene asked, knowing full well she could expect nothing less.
“As I understand it, you recently lost some territory to the infidel,” Karloman explained. “I have planned a campaign to capture it for the West, all I require is that neither you nor your officials intervene.”
“Sardinia?” Eirene raised an eyebrow. “Have the damn place, if you can take it, we could barely hold it, so if you want to try, feel free.”
“Oh I shall,” Karloman assured her with a grim smile. “But it shall be more than ‘trying’ for my part. I intend to liberate the island wholly from the infidels, and secure it for Christendom in perpetuity.”
Meanwhile in Italy.
January 10th 787.
The wedding of Elodie de Valois to Pepin Karling was a subdued but dignified affair. Taking place at Milan, in a small chapel, the prince and his new bride made sure to include the populace of the city in their celebrations. The crown prince endeared himself to the Milanese by declaring the wedding festivities a holy day of rest, with the backing of the Bishop of Milan, allowing public feasting and celebration across the city to mark the occasion.
The Duke of Milan had been one of those to suggest alternatives candidates to the Emperor for the Prince’s marriage, but with the Prince and his new bride protected by the laws of hospitality, and his subjects in Milan rapidly growing to approve of the young couple, he had little choice but to congratulate them while seething impotently.
But the paradise would not last long. Word came from Paris. His father planned a new campaign soon.
It seemed Pepin’s time with his new wife would be blissfully short.
Sardinia, 787
The loss of the island in the Western Mediterranean was a serious one to the Empire of Romanion, though many at court defended the Empress’s decision to sue for peace by pointing out the difficulties of holding it. Sardinia remained isolated and on the wrong end of the Mediterranean for Constantinople to defend.
Thus the island’s population now fell under the rule of the Moslem Sultanate of Ifriqiya, the North African state had conquered the island and pushed out the last remaining Roman garrisons.
But the position they held would not remain comfortable for long. For as the Eastern Empire withdrew, the Augustus of the West found he could not abide such aggression and expansionism into what he considered his sphere.
War was inevitable.
OOC: Back in the saddle for another campaign! But how will Pepin and Karloman cooperate given the recent breach between them?
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An alternate Ecunemical council which is backed by the Pope and the Western Emperor is sure to strengthened the religious unity in the Eastern Empire, though I fear the Great Schism will still be inevitable. Once again I can see traces of Pepin's decision of marriage to that of the show version of Robb Stark, both married for the sake of love. I certainly hope there's no Red Wedding in this AAR though, then again, with Karloman as Emperor, any attack on his heir would face retribution. Assuming of course, he has no bold plans to have his other son hold both the Western and Eastern Titles.....
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Attacking Karloman's principal heir would be a very bad idea...
That doesn't mean there won't be consequences down the road though, particularly with a lot of the Italian and Lombard lords starting to chafe under Frankish control. We'll see what those consequences look like.
And yes, the Council of Nicaea I'm referring to did actually happen in 787, and Eirene did indeed invite Papal representatives, and it basically outlawed Iconoclasm in Byzantium. Since Eirene has made the stamping out of Iconoclasm her principal domestic political goal, she'll have a lot more chance if she's back by the Latin Churches as well as her own Orthodox supporters.
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Not the brightest or chaste wife. We'll see how long this relationship would last.
My experience with my spouse or my child tends to get killed during disease outbreak if i forgot or would not close the gate.
My experience with my spouse or my child tends to get killed during disease outbreak if i forgot or would not close the gate.
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Good old Betrada helping out Pepin, though she is a devious old woman she certainly loves her family.
Ooh, an ecumenical council you say? I am very intrigued. I was always disappointed by the lack of those in CK2 and I still have the blueprint of a mod to add them in, I'll see if I get the time to work on it.
Karloman is heading quite far from the core of Francia now, I wonder if he has a final border in mind or if he'll keep going as far as his armies will take him.
Ooh, an ecumenical council you say? I am very intrigued. I was always disappointed by the lack of those in CK2 and I still have the blueprint of a mod to add them in, I'll see if I get the time to work on it.
Karloman is heading quite far from the core of Francia now, I wonder if he has a final border in mind or if he'll keep going as far as his armies will take him.
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Also, I'm here to let you know that I've nominated you for the Weekly AAR Showcase!
Congratulations and keep up the excellent work!
Congratulations and keep up the excellent work!
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Congratulations! Do you mind fleshing out your in-game decision to choose Elodie? She neither has good stats, claims or alliances and is not a lover of Pepin. Who is next in line after Pepin? Thank you for updating
She does grow to love him later on...
In-game there frankly weren't that many candidates of suitable age with a good claim, and while her stats aren't all that impressive, Pepin's are pretty good in most respects, which I thought would balance things out. I am also doing this as an AAR, and that has to be interesting to read, so I don't want to make it 'too' easy for myself by producing genius, strong and attractive heirs all the time. Has to be stakes after all
But I also found some reasoning in her not having many claims. The whole deal with this is that Pepin and Karloman are kind of forging the new nobility that will define Western Europe, which means a lot of the older families will be shunted aside as they die out or fail to fit into the new Carolingian order. Karloman has promoted plenty of lowborn men of talent to high places and given them lands, and he keeps doing this as time goes on, so this is in-universe an extension of that.
Edit: Plus lustful means more heirs, and there aren't that many Karlings around still, so better to bolster those numbers up a bit, particularly in the mainline branch.
After Pepin it's technically Nikolaos, Karloman's son with Eirene (who is not the heir to the Byzantines at present, as Eirene still has an elder son from her previous marriage to Leon IV. But neither Karloman or Eirene seem to be counting Nikolaos in their succession plans, and the fact I haven't focused on him much at all in relation to Karloman should tell you whether he goes anywhere in the line of HRE succession (though I shan't spoil what happens with the East because... reasons).
I am very flattered! Thank you very much for your support
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Thank you for the explanation. I just have my characters visit the three sisters CharityKindnessHARMONY and then figure an explanation why 17yo girl has fallen in love with a 50yo man within an year of marriage.
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June 787.
Bertrada had chosen to remain in Milan, from where, Pepin assumed, she was still capable of directing her formidable spy network. She had remained mum on the exact reasons why his father had backed down and allowed him to wed his chosen bride, but he had a sneaking suspicion she had in some way forced him to do it.
Exactly what information his grandmother held over his father would have to wait however, for Pepin had received his father’s summons to ride back over the Alps… with his bride and retinue, and come to meet them in Marseille. While his father’s dispatch had not made it obvious, he plainly was planning another campaign.
Spain again? No, our treaty is still holding. Not Southern Italy, for the Eastern Empire still holds sway there and remain our allies. Sardinia perhaps? After all, that has recently slipped from the Romans grasp, perhaps it’s better if we took it back for the Augustus of the West.
He had been forced to ponder these thoughts alone, for while his bride was kind and considerate, her understandings of the manuoverings of realms and politics was not equivalent to what a higher-born lady’s would likely have been. Truth be told though, Pepin enjoyed that. He considered such a thing to be solely the realm of men, and based on how his father talked about his own mother and second wife, it was better for everyone if they remained so.
Except his grandmother of course… But then the rules didn’t seem to apply to her in any respect.
If Pepin had expected a heart-to-heart with his father on his return, he was sorely mistaken. Karloman merely curtly nodded when the sweat-stained Pepin, still in his riding gear, emerged in the council room to partake in preparations for the next campaign.
He had guessed correctly it’s target. Sardinia had been conquered by the African Moors, lost to the Eastern Empire, and with Eirene too pre-occupied with conflicts against the Iconoclasts internally and the Bulgars externally, Karloman had decided it only right that Sardinia be added into the Empire.
“With their conquest only recent, the local Christian rulers will still be restive,” the Emperor remarked, staring at his map of the island. An old map in truth, needing an update, “If we forge alliances with some of the local lords, it shall be a conquest that will go more smoothly.”
“Most of the Moorish soldiers have returned home I take it?”
“Aye, but they shall return quickly,” Karloman nodded, “They have the ships to traverse to the island quickly, but we do not. We will need to sail our force over in two groups,” he glanced at Pepin. “I will lead the first, but when I send our ships back to Mariselles, you will need to organise and ship the second force over the sea to Sardinia, and link up with us on the island.”
A logistical undertaking larger than Pepin had undertaken before, but he nodded solemnly nonetheless, “I shan’t fail you, sire.”
“We’ll see,” was the only flicker of criticism his father allowed before turning to deal with other matters. But Pepin could tell from his tone that he had crossed some invisible breach between them. Gone were the days his father would trust him implicitly, or even seek his counsel in matters of wars.
In some ways, Pepin wondered if the task he had been given was a test, prove he was still worthy to be his father’s heir. It was not ordinarily a task he would’ve been assigned, it involved great amounts of work with little opportunity for glory or personal distinguishment. Not really a task assigned to a chosen imperial heir.
Well he’s not disinheriting me. Pepin thought determinedly, I shall excel at this task as much as I would at any battlefield manuovere, he cannot have a pretext to depose me if I give him none.
But the task would prove more significant than even he had anticipated…
September 787 Marseilles,
When the ships had gathered it became clear that barely half of Karloman’s army could be transported in the first wave of the invasion.
“Stay here and keep command of the other half of the army,” Karloman told Pepin, “Eight thousand all up, when the last levies come in. When the ships disembark us in Sardinia, the captains will sail back here to you, and it will be your job to bring the rest over.”
“Will we have a place to meet on the island?” Pepin asked, his mind already calculating the amounts of food, goods and grain for horses that he would need to requisition from autumn harvests for this undertaking.
The Emperor shrugged, “We may be doing very well, or very poorly, I’m sure you’ll hear either way, and if you have your scouts properly deployed, it shouldn’t take more than a week or so to find us once you enter Sardinia.”
So Karloman felt reasonably confident in his military changes in mid-September, when he embarked on the ships that would deliver half of the army for his planned campaign to the shores of Sardinia… Buoyed by the Emperor’s confidence, the troops too, were in a good mood, and even the cramped and uncomfortable conditions of the sea voyage ahead did not seem to make them too restive.
It would not remain so pleasant for long…
OOC: Next post we'll meet the participants in the other side of the war for Sardinia, and begin to see why Bertrada is focusing on what's going on in Italy. Thanks everyone for the reading.
BTW: The Second Council of Nicaea was a real event convoked by the Empress Irene of Athens in 787, and it did include Papal representatives, though OTL Charlemagne was less keen, issuing his "Libri Carolini" in response, repudiating both the Iconoclasts and the Council. It's an interesting historical event for those who like those sorts of things, so I'll drop a link here and invite you to read more if you're interested as well, since I won't really cover the alternative version of it here in all that much beyond broad-strokes detail. I thought I'd include it as an easter egg for those who knew about it though, which I like to do when possible
en.wikipedia.org
Thanks again for all the support
Bertrada had chosen to remain in Milan, from where, Pepin assumed, she was still capable of directing her formidable spy network. She had remained mum on the exact reasons why his father had backed down and allowed him to wed his chosen bride, but he had a sneaking suspicion she had in some way forced him to do it.
Exactly what information his grandmother held over his father would have to wait however, for Pepin had received his father’s summons to ride back over the Alps… with his bride and retinue, and come to meet them in Marseille. While his father’s dispatch had not made it obvious, he plainly was planning another campaign.
Spain again? No, our treaty is still holding. Not Southern Italy, for the Eastern Empire still holds sway there and remain our allies. Sardinia perhaps? After all, that has recently slipped from the Romans grasp, perhaps it’s better if we took it back for the Augustus of the West.
He had been forced to ponder these thoughts alone, for while his bride was kind and considerate, her understandings of the manuoverings of realms and politics was not equivalent to what a higher-born lady’s would likely have been. Truth be told though, Pepin enjoyed that. He considered such a thing to be solely the realm of men, and based on how his father talked about his own mother and second wife, it was better for everyone if they remained so.
Except his grandmother of course… But then the rules didn’t seem to apply to her in any respect.
If Pepin had expected a heart-to-heart with his father on his return, he was sorely mistaken. Karloman merely curtly nodded when the sweat-stained Pepin, still in his riding gear, emerged in the council room to partake in preparations for the next campaign.
He had guessed correctly it’s target. Sardinia had been conquered by the African Moors, lost to the Eastern Empire, and with Eirene too pre-occupied with conflicts against the Iconoclasts internally and the Bulgars externally, Karloman had decided it only right that Sardinia be added into the Empire.
“With their conquest only recent, the local Christian rulers will still be restive,” the Emperor remarked, staring at his map of the island. An old map in truth, needing an update, “If we forge alliances with some of the local lords, it shall be a conquest that will go more smoothly.”
“Most of the Moorish soldiers have returned home I take it?”
“Aye, but they shall return quickly,” Karloman nodded, “They have the ships to traverse to the island quickly, but we do not. We will need to sail our force over in two groups,” he glanced at Pepin. “I will lead the first, but when I send our ships back to Mariselles, you will need to organise and ship the second force over the sea to Sardinia, and link up with us on the island.”
A logistical undertaking larger than Pepin had undertaken before, but he nodded solemnly nonetheless, “I shan’t fail you, sire.”
“We’ll see,” was the only flicker of criticism his father allowed before turning to deal with other matters. But Pepin could tell from his tone that he had crossed some invisible breach between them. Gone were the days his father would trust him implicitly, or even seek his counsel in matters of wars.
In some ways, Pepin wondered if the task he had been given was a test, prove he was still worthy to be his father’s heir. It was not ordinarily a task he would’ve been assigned, it involved great amounts of work with little opportunity for glory or personal distinguishment. Not really a task assigned to a chosen imperial heir.
Well he’s not disinheriting me. Pepin thought determinedly, I shall excel at this task as much as I would at any battlefield manuovere, he cannot have a pretext to depose me if I give him none.
But the task would prove more significant than even he had anticipated…
September 787 Marseilles,
When the ships had gathered it became clear that barely half of Karloman’s army could be transported in the first wave of the invasion.
“Stay here and keep command of the other half of the army,” Karloman told Pepin, “Eight thousand all up, when the last levies come in. When the ships disembark us in Sardinia, the captains will sail back here to you, and it will be your job to bring the rest over.”
“Will we have a place to meet on the island?” Pepin asked, his mind already calculating the amounts of food, goods and grain for horses that he would need to requisition from autumn harvests for this undertaking.
The Emperor shrugged, “We may be doing very well, or very poorly, I’m sure you’ll hear either way, and if you have your scouts properly deployed, it shouldn’t take more than a week or so to find us once you enter Sardinia.”
So Karloman felt reasonably confident in his military changes in mid-September, when he embarked on the ships that would deliver half of the army for his planned campaign to the shores of Sardinia… Buoyed by the Emperor’s confidence, the troops too, were in a good mood, and even the cramped and uncomfortable conditions of the sea voyage ahead did not seem to make them too restive.
It would not remain so pleasant for long…
OOC: Next post we'll meet the participants in the other side of the war for Sardinia, and begin to see why Bertrada is focusing on what's going on in Italy. Thanks everyone for the reading.
BTW: The Second Council of Nicaea was a real event convoked by the Empress Irene of Athens in 787, and it did include Papal representatives, though OTL Charlemagne was less keen, issuing his "Libri Carolini" in response, repudiating both the Iconoclasts and the Council. It's an interesting historical event for those who like those sorts of things, so I'll drop a link here and invite you to read more if you're interested as well, since I won't really cover the alternative version of it here in all that much beyond broad-strokes detail. I thought I'd include it as an easter egg for those who knew about it though, which I like to do when possible
Second Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia
Thanks again for all the support
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Thank you for updating. Pepin is on probation. Bertrada is doing what Bertrada does. Karloman is looking to take his mad.
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The Sardinian invasion will be a good test of Pepin's independence although such a small fleet may haunt Karloman if the Muslims catch him off guard.
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Splitting up fleets often doesn't work well, we'll see if Mediterranean weather is kind this time around
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