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Srivijiya/Indonesia

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You are indeed correct, although as it is the exams that define the rest of my life (according to my teachers) are coming up in two weeks, so life has indeed caught up with me, I'll take silence as agreement and continue on my way, I might try and write some of the religious events, the idea for the indonesian mini area is to have 3 minor powers with one-two major powers emerging before 1600, beyond that I'm quite clueless, additoinally I'd like to integrate it into an overall asian landscape. Mattyg, maybe once europe is finished (i.e. this goes out of beta :p) we could shift our attention to an asian expansion? maybe the aim for version 2 could be three to four playable asian nations?

EDIT: Oh yeah... how about for the spread of islam throughout indonesia/ china(if that's agreed on) we implement a agceepesque religion spreading, it would be pretty easy to engineer as the code is essentially there in the agceep (would they care if we adapt it?).

EDIT 2: with regard to monarch and leader lists, I don't particularly care, as long as they're a diverse bunch, likelihood of me moving on them anytime soon is low, I might as well be honest about it, I'm more interested in events, particularly of the game changing kind
 
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Leaving cert exams, determines what college and course I get into, they're unique to ireland, with it's free universities for all, as long as you get the marks(not that I'm complaining, fair is fair) I guess it's pretty close to the gcses and sats, but suffice to say this is study for exams time! However this is all rather off topic, I'll try adn get an event string written up shortly
 
Don_Quigleone said:
You are indeed correct, although as it is the exams that define the rest of my life (according to my teachers) are coming up in two weeks, so life has indeed caught up with me, I'll take silence as agreement and continue on my way, I might try and write some of the religious events, the idea for the indonesian mini area is to have 3 minor powers with one-two major powers emerging before 1600, beyond that I'm quite clueless, additoinally I'd like to integrate it into an overall asian landscape. Mattyg, maybe once europe is finished (i.e. this goes out of beta :p) we could shift our attention to an asian expansion? maybe the aim for version 2 could be three to four playable asian nations?
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Absolutely.

Once we are out of Beta, meaning that Europe, the Middle east and the New World are 'finished' (ie solidly playable to about 1650) then I am happy to turn my energies toward Asia.

BUT.

I know nothing (OK, not nothing, but meaninglessly little) about Asian history.

So, I can code, edit, restructure, insert, sit, beg and roll over. But I cannot provide ideas and events.

Good luck with your exams.
 
Thanks, yeah I don't know too much about asain history either, but this is interregnum and not agceep, so really, we can do what we like, the only factor we should keep account of is whether what we do is historrically feasible, so I don't think not knowing the history of the area particularly well will effect anything, anyway I've though of this mechanic for spreading islam throughout indonesia:

Around the start Srivijiya sultanate will get a choice of two events with regard to spreading islam, either peaceful spreading, or spreading "by the sword", by the sword is narrowminded, peaceful is innovative, If peaceful spreading occurs theres a high probability of the srivijiya sultanate going mutazelite in the future.

Under by the sword rules whenever the sultanate conquers a territory that isn't muslim the put the population to the sword making it sunni, but also decreasing tax, population and a temporary revolt risk rise, with possibly events in the future with insurrection. On the other hand peaceful spreading (very much as per history) will involve an agceepesque spreading in a rather random fashion, It will spread through lands NOT owned by the sultanate, but more slowly, also a suitable number of response events will be needed for individuals who own the territories.

The only problem I can see is that generally Islam was not spread "by the sword" (I think) although I think it's possible when the religions they supplant are not judeo-christian, as is the case here, someone more expert on islam might be able to tell us more, but that how it currently stands

EDIT: Here's the first event in the sequence, note that tags aren't in any way proper, and there may be some syntax errors, also there'll be two of these with action a and b reversed so the ai has an equal chance of choosing either


event = {
id = XXXXXXX
trigger = {
religion=sunni}
random = no
country = SUL
name = "A matter of religion"
desc = We must decide how we will spread islam among these nonbelievers

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1432 }

action_a = {
name = "Spread by the sword"
command = { type = setflag which = sword }
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Spread according to Allahs will"
command = { type = setflag which = peace }
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 }
}
}
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there might be a few other effects as well from each decision (and the magnitude should probably also be different), also it might be better to sleep events than use flags, but other than that thats how it is
 
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I think that the spread of Islam by the sword is basically a myth.

It's an extrapolation of one event in the history of the levant, where the mean and nasty crusaders, soundly beaten in the third crusade, were offered Islam or the sword. Most took the sword, but those who took Islam were trested very well, and one noble in particular went on to a fine and wealthy career in the court.

I am probably wrong, I bet there are other examples of Islam being forced on populations, but I think that in SE Asia it spread there pretty willingly.

Try PMing Calipah. Or go to Wikipedia.
 
MattyG said:
I think that the spread of Islam by the sword is basically a myth.

It's an extrapolation of one event in the history of the levant, where the mean and nasty crusaders, soundly beaten in the third crusade, were offered Islam or the sword. Most took the sword, but those who took Islam were trested very well, and one noble in particular went on to a fine and wealthy career in the court.

I am probably wrong, I bet there are other examples of Islam being forced on populations, but I think that in SE Asia it spread there pretty willingly.

Try PMing Calipah. Or go to Wikipedia.
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Hmm, what about Safavid Iran? Granted, that was mostly a case of converting people from one sect of Islam to another, but given their fervour in establishing a state religion, I can't imagine the Safavids looked too kindly on non-Muslims either.
 
MattyG said:
I think that the spread of Islam by the sword is basically a myth.

It's an extrapolation of one event in the history of the levant, where the mean and nasty crusaders, soundly beaten in the third crusade, were offered Islam or the sword. Most took the sword, but those who took Islam were trested very well, and one noble in particular went on to a fine and wealthy career in the court.

I am probably wrong, I bet there are other examples of Islam being forced on populations, but I think that in SE Asia it spread there pretty willingly.

Try PMing Calipah. Or go to Wikipedia.
Click to expand...

You are correct that Islam spread through Indonesia peacefully, you're also right about the levant thing, however it could be possible for there to be forced conversions in indonesia, and Interegnum is about branching storylines, as far as I know Islamic doctrine says that mass conversions aren't allowed in the case of other judeo-christians, but they mightn't have recognised eastern religions as religions so extremists may have been able to force their religion, though it's probably best to ask calipah, but we should just keep in mind that this is alternate history

On a side note, if conversion by the sword path occurs the sultanate will be given cassus belli's on other indonesians (to "reunite the empire") If the peaceful path is taken then a possibility arises of the populace of other nations converting out from under them, the nation can choose to react harshly, whereby the sultanate is given a cassus belli (possibilities for jihad?) or not react and risk more of the nation going muslim and possibly revolting in a coup, changing the countries state religion to muslim if they succeed, and possibly unifying with the sultanate, also possibilities of individual provinces revolting and joining the sultanate.

Besides that we should also put in a mechanism for hinduism and/or buddhism also spreading, though I haven't thought of that yet
 
Well, Islam is in the end of the day a religion, and human socieities the world over have always had the propensity to make 'others' confirm to their said beliefs. Whilst Muslim doctrine bans the imposition of the religion on non-believers, it was in the end of the day up to the monarch/imam/judge/and or cult leader to do so. Weve had instances of violance and at times, whole scale conversion, but never to say....what the Spainards did to the Jews and Moors. On the other hand, the war of religion in Europe was but a footnote when compared to the conflicts between Shias and Sunnis during the Safavid Vs Ottoman eras.
 
Hmm while I have plenty of ideas with regard to the sultanate faction I'm not so sure about the rest of the factions, I'm gonna officially ask... Has anyone got any ideas for paths that buddhist mallacca and the hindu makkassar to take?
 
Since we're a bit stagnant here...

Has anyone got any ideas for paths that buddhist mallacca and the hindu makkassar to take?
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The latter really depends on what's going to happen with India. A strong Hindu empire there would be able to help Makassar out against encroachment. Otherwise, without Champa, it's alone and a long way from co-religionists...

The former, however, could be more interesting. I'm thinking that possibly the Buddhist countries in SE asia may want to band together somehow to face the threat of Champa, and possibly Srivijaya, in something like the League of Cambrai. That would invariably draw in Malacca if it were Buddhist, or directly encroach on it if it were Muslim.

Just how large is Srivijaya going to be, specifically, anyway? How many provinces and which ones?
 
Reason things are stagnant is that I'm in exam mode, but here's a short howdy do on how things stand:

Srivijiya originally will encompass Java, Sumatra, Borneo, most of the small islands south east of the phillipines and west of new guinea, Malay peninsula, It will be split with the sultanate gaining sumatra, at least half of java, Malluca gets malay and 3/5 or so of borneo, Makkasar gets the rest (maybe less, they should be roughly equal). The COT should start out in sumatra and possibly move to mallucca, the rest of the east indies (including the philipines) will be occupied by minors

I can't see india doing much to help makkasar, Hinduism in makkasar isn't the same as hinduism in india, I was kinda thinking of makkasar being a league of free cities and what not (what with consisting of many small islands) and becoming a more trading empire, the sultanate will try and reunify and do other stuff, same possibly goes for mallucca though they might also take part in indochinese politics, though most of all this is in the air, I've only thought of stuff for the sultanate.
 
Srivijiya originally will encompass Java, Sumatra, Borneo, most of the small islands south east of the phillipines and west of new guinea, Malay peninsula, It will be split with the sultanate gaining sumatra, at least half of java, Malluca gets malay and 3/5 or so of borneo, Makkasar gets the rest (maybe less, they should be roughly equal). The COT should start out in sumatra and possibly move to mallucca, the rest of the east indies (including the philipines) will be occupied by minors
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I was thinking that instead of Mallacca we could have a stronger Brunei that takes over the Mallacan territories? Historically, the 15th century is when Brunei converted to Islam and started rising in power.

Each of these kingdoms is also going to be rather large, and potentially very wealthy, also. I'm curious to see what happens with them in playtesting.
 
well inserting a fourth wheel might upset things a little, we'd have to give mallucca more of indochina to compensate, you may be correct about them being too big so we might add in some minors to even things out.

With regards to brunei and islam, this is the period when islam came to the entirety of indonesia, what I'm planning on is that the srivijiya empire split up because of islam (with the main empire converting to the sultanate) with the rest sticking to their indigenous beliefs (buddhism and hinduism). I'm thinking of putting in a mechanic whereby islam will spread naturally (similiar to real life) and countries can choose to convert as it spreads through their lands. I'll be posting that in a bit.

OnWhile brunei could work I think we should plan out the existing nations first (though mallucca could be transformed to brunei) before addeing new ones in, with regard to minors we'll add in a system so that they can transform to one of the larger nations if they take it's territories
 
A Sulu Kingdom in the Philipines sounds enticing - no Spainards to crush the 'Moros'.
 
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