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so my void dwellers are getting changes to jobs assigned every single day, like others of noticed. but part of that seems to include a flashing of the prioritize and deprioritize indicators as well. I don't know what this means, but it might suggest something is going on with planetary automation. changing settings for automation doesn't do anything, so I don't know. Of course, the button to cut off automation seems to be non-functional. I can't catch it with a screen shot so sorry. save file if anyone wants to look. I have submitted a Bug Report as well.
I haven't had any issues with this in any of the beta versions. At 1K pops, I can upgrade my reassembled ship shelter into a real capital building.
odd, I'd check my run on the last build but I don't feel like rolling back at the moment. I know in the last build I had fairly large colonies that seemed to be resisting getting to the point where they could upgrade.
 

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Still have no idea how to read this.
A pop group will contribute in multiple different jobs, so a fragmented pop group will show up in every jobs it's pops work on?
Like this 12 pops have other pops work on specialist job, but somehow still 1 pop counted as 12 unemployed worker jobs while there's open worker jobs?
 
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Finally had an opportunity to play this version, going to provide feedback. I'm experiencing a lot of the same bugs as everyone else - so much stuff is completely broken, and pops go crazy after a while and start playing extreme musical chairs - but that's stuff that will get fixed. Same with the UI issues, everyone knows the UI is terrible, it will change.

The Good:
  • As before, the pop changes feel really good. Growth and migration especially.
  • I love the new way of populating jobs fractionally by weight. We can still micro if we absolutely want a single job to fill, but for general gameplay it is a massive improvement.
The Much-Improved:
  • After the previous beta's frustrating system, the changes to jobs and buildings in this beta feel much more pleasant. I'm even entirely sure why, but it felt like I actually had control of my empire's economy again.
  • While the system is still too bare-bones, it's starting to feel fun again. I actually want to play more than a few hours on 3.99.3, which is not something I felt for 3.99.1 and 3.99.2.
  • Urban zones, and buildings providing jobs, allow us to make more generalised planets. It's not as flexible as 3.14 but we can at least plop a research lab down on a factory world for a bit of extra research.
  • A lot of the economic death spiral issues seem to have been mitigated.
The Still-Bad:
  • While specialized zones and a greater variety of buildings might eventually fix this, for now, every planet looks the same. A size-5 research world and a size-30 mining world in the previous version were distinguishable at a glance. In this one, they may barely differ.
  • This is a UI issue, and I know many of those will probably be fixed, but there's so much wasted space in the planet UI. Some tabs have barely any space, and others have giant blank bars across the window that force you to scroll up and down constantly. Please tell me that the final version of the population management won't look like this.
 
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Urban zones, and buildings providing jobs, allow us to make more generalised planets. It's not as flexible as 3.14 but we can at least plop a research lab down on a factory world for a bit of extra research.
The problem is Amenities, not Research. Zones sound great, until you remember that a Zone dedicated to Amenities can have just Holo-Theaters in it. The number of common buildings is very... barren. The initial roster was made with limited number of universal slots in mind. Do "unique" buildings even have a place in the game, anymore? And what about research? Empire civics? When was the last time anyone was concerned about housing on a planet? Should the players be worried about joblessness, instead?

I'm suggesting adding way more Zones and way more buildings and job subtypes (like the researchers or administrators right now), but make every building provide a bit less jobs. Every district type has a zone, and gets an additional zone for every 6 additional districts you build, but sometimes have own unique subtypes, related to their district. So you can build a Refinery Zone in the Mining District, or the Agricultural District if you're a Catalytic Processor. Or maybe a minerals research zone, where you can build buildings that give research, at the expense of mineral output. Or a precious metals zone, that gives Amenities at the expense of minerals, instead. That sort of thing.

The zones in the center, you can build up to 4, depending on Capital level, +1 for every 11 planet sizes. You can limit the number of duplicate zones by capital level, if research rushing is a concern, and make planet specializations something to work towards and earn, just like an Ecumenopolis.
 
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View attachment 1269641
Still have no idea how to read this.
A pop group will contribute in multiple different jobs, so a fragmented pop group will show up in every jobs it's pops work on?
Like this 12 pops have other pops work on specialist job, but somehow still 1 pop counted as 12 unemployed worker jobs while there's open worker jobs?
id hazard that of 173 egalitarian workers 12 are currently unemployed and the rest are artisans and metalurgusts.
 
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  • While specialized zones and a greater variety of buildings might eventually fix this, for now, every planet looks the same. A size-5 research world and a size-30 mining world in the previous version were distinguishable at a glance. In this one, they may barely differ.

This is funny because non-4.0 Stellaris already has boring planets and planet development, and they achieved to made it worse in the beta.

I hope this changes in 180º. Planets should be more unique and more interesting to interact instead of the braindead development and everything being the same that we have even before the beta.
 
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Unemployment visualization Suggestion on surface Tab:
It's not too clear if unemployment is a problem or not with this visualization and you have to go to economy to find out. Perhaps the unemployment display on the surface tab should be just a percentage and hovering over it would offer details about unemployment groups, and you'll want to go to economy if you want even more detail. As it is now you get separate icons that don't even fit so you can't see them all, and you have to click on each one to get a number, but with pops shifting jobs wildly the icons move around at higher values making hovering over them difficult since they actively escape from the mouse.

Also, I think a percentage of the total pops would make it much easier to visualize if unemployment is a problem or not.

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Played the game for machine intelligence, they have a few problems, very fast growth, sometimes jobs go negative, and every world must have a production zone of Amenities otherwise there will be constant uprisings
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This tab here reports civilians as unemployed, wich is a problem, unemployed civilians should only be pops that are above the civilian max possible number
Also, the civilian tab on economy reports 0 unemployed, so which one is true ?
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Try to find out why early immigration stopped. Somehow when capital pops start to change jobs endlessly, the colony pops will even get drained back to the capital while there's colony designation immigration attraction. Won't empty the colony, but still cause little to no pop grow.
 
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The new planet UI is missing planet size and planet type



I dislike having to scroll in a small window only seeing 3 categories at the time, just this part has a total of 10 different types:
1742647744123.png



Compared to the current stable version (modded) which can house 7 rows:
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till have no idea how to read this.
A pop group will contribute in multiple different jobs, so a fragmented pop group will show up in every jobs it's pops work on?
Like this 12 pops have other pops work on specialist job, but somehow still 1 pop counted as 12 unemployed worker jobs while there's open worker jobs?
I'm pretty sure that should read 1 pop group producing 12 unemployment or something. Reporting on unemployment is extremely bad right now. to the poin that it is actually causing me to make mistakes trying to 'fix' it because it annoys me.
The problem is Amenities, not Research. Zones sound great, until you remember that a Zone dedicated to Amenities can have just Holo-Theaters in it.
The devs have already stated that the Amenities zone was a mistake, and they are going to change it. It was in a dev post recently; I think in this thread. So complaining about it seems unnecessary at this point.
I'm suggesting adding way more Zones and way more buildings and job subtypes (like the researchers or administrators right now), but make every building provide a bit less jobs.
I doubt its worth the effort, and am not sure it will improve anything. every new zone, building, and job requires programing writing--for tooltips and events--as well as balancing efforts. There is only so many man hours to work with and increasing the number of things they have to work with needs to be traded off with 'how much will this help.' I'd rather not have to scroll through two dozen different zones just to find the one I want unless it really helps. I assume the devs agree with this.
Unemployment visualization Suggestion on surface Tab:
Not a bad Idea, personally I'd like to see unemployment on the surface tab pooled into one number--split again in tool tip--and some limit before it turns red or is displayed on the outliner.
This tab here reports civilians as unemployed, wich is a problem, unemployed civilians should only be pops that are above the civilian max possible number
Also, the civilian tab on economy reports 0 unemployed, so which one is true ?
For some reason all civilians are considered unemployed, which leads to them being counted as such in the outliner and the UI encouraging you to eliminate them, despite this being explicitly against the wishes of the devs. I'm guessing they just haven't been removed from that category yet? but it's incredibly annoying and has led to me building new jobs I didn't need just to get rid of the 'unemployment' notification. Which doesn't work...
 
The colonize planet thing:

If I manually bring my colony ship to a planet and click the colonize planet button in the menu, I get the colonization menu, but the ship I brought is not actively selected. Thus, If I select the wrong button in the colonization menu, I might end up sending another colony ship here from far away or worse, start building a new one.
Solution: The colony ship that you are actively controlling should be pre-selected in the colonization menu if you are manually bringing it to colonize a planet.
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and for me the most important part of that is 'interesting' which the old system really wasn't. Spam researchers, spam industry districts, spam whatever unity buildings.

This system seems--on paper anyway--like it will give you more interesting choices even if its less choices in total. Right now a lot isn't implemented, so its hard to say how it will end. But right now the potential is far better than what we had before.

As I pointed out in another thread, I don't think you could tie buildings to specific districts and successfully communicate that clearly. In my mind it simply wouldn't work well at all.

Yes, you are right—the efficient part is and will be to focus on researchers, cover your unity if needed, and build alloys. But the system in which we did that wasn't that flawed—it was the goals or decisions we had to make. The fundamentals of options were there: we had limited districts, planet types, and a few features to orient our planet specializations around.

But ultimately, we were free to build whatever buildings we desired based on the building slots we had open. No limitations, and decisions arose each time we either unlocked more slots via research or civics, or just built another city district for more slots to work with.

I think it's a fallacy to assume the building system led to repetitive building—it’s the gameplay loop and game goals that measure success. Namely, fleet power and the military race to come out on top. After expansion, one of the best ways to scale was through research, so once alloy production was maxed out for a massive fleet, there wasn’t anything else to scale toward besides conquest, allies, or research.

To butcher the building system that was overall working well just to solve the problem of repetitive game goals or progression is gross overreach.

As the new system is too wonky for longer games right now, I can’t fully tell what the mid- to late-game ramifications will be—but I already found myself bored, as I can’t build any more buildings on my capital when all three zones are done and all possible buildings are built. And I don’t have enough pops on my colonies to justify infrastructure there yet.

Before the changes, I could at least bridge that growth gap by making short-term building fixes on my capital—using it as a jack-of-all-trades world to adjust for temporary economic demands until my colonies developed. Now, I can build three zones and then I’m cut off from any further decisions until I research new techs to unlock resource zones.

I predict this will be the norm for planet development:
You set up your three urban zones (the main characteristic of your planet), place the few buildings that match those zones, and then progress based on your resource surplus, choosing whether to upgrade city districts or expand basics.

In short, we’ve gone from building multiple copies of buildings on dedicated planets to always building city districts on every planet.

And in my book, that’s a major step back compared to the freedom we had before—even if it was just perceived. Now we’ve lost that freedom, even if we didn’t always use it.
But as I said, the issue wasn’t the building system—it was how the game works overall.
 
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Found a couple more bugs when playing for machine intelligence in 2330 I had an uprising on the habitat, as a result when I reclaimed back the habitat saw the second government zone, as well as when trying to interact with Synaptic Lathe the game crashes
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The fundamentals of options were there: we had limited districts, planet types, and a few features to orient our planet specializations around.
None of these fundamentals have changed. planet size still limits districts. And we know from statements in the last two days that special features will--at least sometimes--create special zones. So, we still have features to build our planets around. The 'fundamentals' haven't changed.
But ultimately, we were free to build whatever buildings we desired based on the building slots we had open.
But because we were free to build whatever we wanted, building those buildings we 'wanted' didn't change that spam. If my citizen service empire had a fortress on their research world, I still spammed research. Having no restrictions on player choice is sometimes a good idea. this time I don't think it was. sometimes less options is better.
I think it's a fallacy to assume the building system led to repetitive building—it’s the gameplay loop and game goals that measure success.
Right, Lets ask this. What change to the game loop would have changed the need to spam alloys, CG, Research, or Unity? Seriously, I can't imagine any change that would do more than increase building spamming, except reducing the need to spam buildings. making any of those production lines stronger will only make spam stronger, reducing building numbers will only make spam worse as you really focus down what you need rather than play around.

What else could you do, reduce both down? would it change anything at all, and if it favored one you get both problems. planet unique buildings? then you'd need those buildings to scale on something, and you would end up with something similar to what we have now.

The devs have explicitly stated they have plans for zones going into the future, even after 4.0 so there is clearly more behind these decisions. I have stated I like the idea of different zones fore special features myself, which is really cool. So I'm not going to say zones is a bad idea yet, even if in the current build they are weirdly intermediate.
I predict this will be the norm for planet development:
You set up your three urban zones (the main characteristic of your planet), place the few buildings that match those zones, and then progress based on your resource surplus, choosing whether to upgrade city districts or expand basics.
Constantly building cities makes sense, that's basically what civilizations do, building more cities and bigger cities. Spamming more cities is better than every decision be 'should I spam more research or alloys or...' I find choosing what zones I want to be more fulfilling than just choosing 'what planet should I fill with x building.' minus whatever buildings I chose just for RP reasons. which have no real effect on the decision to spam.

Personally, I'm enjoying this set up more, and once balance is fixe, we will see--I hope--Significantly more interesting decision. I especially hope we have reasons to redevelop planets. But that might not happen for 4.0 even if it's in the plans.

Yes, there is a problem with pop growth and colony development. I personally think the issues with demotion that still plague the game is also interfering with migration. I have four colonies 50 years into the game, none are getting close to 1k pops. This is a problem. But I don't see it as fundamental to the new system, but a bug in migration somewhere.

Yes, things could remain where you are basically keeping zones as they are and aren't changing. But that' basically the same as the 3.14 system where you say 'this will be my industry world' and never change it.

My capital is currently producing everything--though it's not producing enough minerals to cover alloy and CG production--and is positive in CG despite being the main home of my unity production. I could manage a difficult one planet empire right now--assuming I'm very careful--and with some balance passes and careful work a gai origan empire is now possible.

I think you are placing to much blame on the new system and failing to consider the side effects of changing the core game loop that encourages 'building spam.'
 
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Somehow, I'm getting the occasional specialist or four on this colony, despite no such jobs.

I think its unemployed specialist migration. But the interesting part is that I'm getting effective demotion here. Without jobs, the numbers are decreasing as expected. This makes me think that ether demotion time is too high, or pop growth of specialist/elite tears are too high. Perhaps some natural reduced pop growth? just to make sure we aren't plagued by endless unsolvable unemployment killing our worlds?
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As it stands its a real struggle to make a clean build. In fact, I think I'll need to always use a living standard that gives happiness--or at least doesn't reduce the happiness--of unemployed because otherwise crime will be utterly unmanageable. And that's going to be a problem for a lot of builds and empire fantasies. Which I hope isn't intended.

Of course, this could simply be related to the bug where pops keep moving around changing unemployment numbers and job numbers for no real reason and thus would be fixed when that is fixed.