maybe i missed it but could we have a way to name the district ourselves, like we can with planets and fleets?
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100% agreed, I put feedback like this in my survey response. Pop groups are useful to know from an empire perspective to get a high level overview. On a planet scale most of the time it just obscures the information we want to know.
The economy tab should definitely collapse into just species. The demographics/growth list should do the same, or have a toggle that lets us swap between species and full pop group.
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The "A fix" didn't exist. The weird effects of nomadic and such were their own problem, which is why I didn't address them, but the various options (of which I have personally posted at least two in the suggestions forums e: or did I? I may have typed them up and deleted them out of disgust) that kept the single pop growth per planet system were kludgey at best. Multiple pop types growing at a time is inherently more flexible than trying to kludge around one per planet and multiplying the number of pops was required for that to work (or even kludgier options like weird melange pops).
If they'd followed that up by "fixing" push-pull by having a distinct push-pull per species and subspecies (maybe also split by ethic) alongside a UI element that showed the combined net push-pull metric for the planet - yeah, I'd have been fine with that. They chose to instead move the individual (now percentage-sized) pops themselves and I'm fine with that too... BUT there should probably be a UI element showing the average pop movement for the previous month/year/decade alongside the current reasons people want to move in or leave.
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I was just trying to say that instead of exhausting the design space of existing systems (like migration push/pull - like with your ideas) instead entire systems are discarded and replaced. It's like a family member throwing out your stuff because it's got a chip/hole/scratch when it just needed a little effort to make it whole. It is wasteful. Stellaris needs more time spent fixing all the known bugs first.
The Beta is missing any UI for:
Pop growth, Population capacity, Pop migration
So, it's quite hard to know what's actually working now. My last test game I had 2 planets with no growth and no migration despite migration treaties, but I didn't notice until years later when the pop numbers were stuck at 100. At least pop migration push/pull had a working UI element and it only took one in-game month to see if it was working or not. Now there's no UI and it's harder to spot all the newly created bugs.
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Having gotten to play the new version a bit today:
Job numbers were lowered, but it doesn't seem like Output was increased by the same % to match. This has put a massive strain on my economy. My Capital had 4 of each Basic Resource District, and then my other 3 Colonies all had 2 of each, and other than Minerals my Energy and Food were really struggling.
Removing the Planet Limit 1 from Buildings doesn't really do much if they're still heavily restricted on where they can go. Sure it lets me fill up the empty Building Slots with SOMETHING, but as pointed out before that's not really fun and meaningful gameplay if the choice is between "Nothing" and "Your one Building choice". Those Buildings also won't compare to any of the passive buff Buildings you'll get later as increasing Output of the Zone will almost always be better than a flat amount of Jobs unless you have very few City Districts. This means they're basically just placeholders until you get better Tech to replace them which just isn't really that exciting.
Buildings adding a flat amount of Jobs I still think just doesn't work that well in the new system. If each Zone is giving me now 100 Jobs, and I have 3 Zones in my City District that is 300 Jobs Per District. If I then build 10 City Districts, that's 3,000 Jobs and that's ignoring the other Jobs from potentially having Basic Resource Jobs, or Jobs from other Buildings. That's also only 10 City Districts which would be considered a very small planet. If I'm running a Consumer Goods deficit, that extra 200 Consumer Goods Jobs that Building is giving me is basically a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands of jobs I have.
I think the tech to unlock Zones on Colonies should be changed. Having it based on RNG feels REALLY bad if you're not getting it. I'm on Year 2250 and I haven't seen any of the tech to get new Zones on my Colonies. For a feature that is so essential to planet development, watching as my three Colonies simply can't develop now is frustrating and has slowed down my progress quite a bit. We already HAVE tech to slow down Planet Development with Natural Blockers that need to be researched and cleared. Adding a second layer to this does not feel necessary and I think contributes to that feeling of the game moving backwards from the current version.
The UI definitely looks cleaner today at least. Things are much more readable, so we're getting some steps in the right direction there which I like.
Lastly I'll reiterate what other people here have talked about, and I feel like the Developers are not addressing, and that's the time frame of this release. I understand why the Developers might not want to comment on this, but there are obviously quite a few players worried about it right now. Both updates this week felt light on adding anything new to test. Yes it got a few new things up and running, but a lot of this week has been cosmetic and UI focused. Don't get me wrong, that is very important, but we're about 39 days from 4.0 launching, and the very basic concept of Zones is still trying to be addressed, to the point where Eladrin said today they may change Zones to only two Zones but with more Building Slots in the Capital Zone. That would mean a whole new round of testing just to see how that feels, if it addresses problems, and is playable. Gestalts, MegaCorps, and many Origins and Civics have barely been touched. Each of these will need their own testing, numbers adjusting, ect. We have about five weeks, and with two updates per week that's only 10 more updates to get everything up and running.
Job numbers were lowered, but it doesn't seem like Output was increased by the same % to match. This has put a massive strain on my economy. My Capital had 4 of each Basic Resource District, and then my other 3 Colonies all had 2 of each, and other than Minerals my Energy and Food were really struggling.
Removing the Planet Limit 1 from Buildings doesn't really do much if they're still heavily restricted on where they can go. Sure it lets me fill up the empty Building Slots with SOMETHING, but as pointed out before that's not really fun and meaningful gameplay if the choice is between "Nothing" and "Your one Building choice". Those Buildings also won't compare to any of the passive buff Buildings you'll get later as increasing Output of the Zone will almost always be better than a flat amount of Jobs unless you have very few City Districts. This means they're basically just placeholders until you get better Tech to replace them which just isn't really that exciting.
Buildings adding a flat amount of Jobs I still think just doesn't work that well in the new system. If each Zone is giving me now 100 Jobs, and I have 3 Zones in my City District that is 300 Jobs Per District. If I then build 10 City Districts, that's 3,000 Jobs and that's ignoring the other Jobs from potentially having Basic Resource Jobs, or Jobs from other Buildings. That's also only 10 City Districts which would be considered a very small planet. If I'm running a Consumer Goods deficit, that extra 200 Consumer Goods Jobs that Building is giving me is basically a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands of jobs I have.
I think the tech to unlock Zones on Colonies should be changed. Having it based on RNG feels REALLY bad if you're not getting it. I'm on Year 2250 and I haven't seen any of the tech to get new Zones on my Colonies. For a feature that is so essential to planet development, watching as my three Colonies simply can't develop now is frustrating and has slowed down my progress quite a bit. We already HAVE tech to slow down Planet Development with Natural Blockers that need to be researched and cleared. Adding a second layer to this does not feel necessary and I think contributes to that feeling of the game moving backwards from the current version.
The UI definitely looks cleaner today at least. Things are much more readable, so we're getting some steps in the right direction there which I like.
Lastly I'll reiterate what other people here have talked about, and I feel like the Developers are not addressing, and that's the time frame of this release. I understand why the Developers might not want to comment on this, but there are obviously quite a few players worried about it right now. Both updates this week felt light on adding anything new to test. Yes it got a few new things up and running, but a lot of this week has been cosmetic and UI focused. Don't get me wrong, that is very important, but we're about 39 days from 4.0 launching, and the very basic concept of Zones is still trying to be addressed, to the point where Eladrin said today they may change Zones to only two Zones but with more Building Slots in the Capital Zone. That would mean a whole new round of testing just to see how that feels, if it addresses problems, and is playable. Gestalts, MegaCorps, and many Origins and Civics have barely been touched. Each of these will need their own testing, numbers adjusting, ect. We have about five weeks, and with two updates per week that's only 10 more updates to get everything up and running.
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I'm seeing this as well. I don't think the output needs to go up as far as the jobs went down. But its clear that the loss of the number of jobs went to far.
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The biggest thing I no ticed going into beta 5 from beta 4, was a huge energy shortage. Not sure why the devs want to push us into a cronic shortage/imbalance like that.
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Ok, I had a better experience this time — played for about 2 hours in Beta 5.
The approach to min-max every planet to have one zone or so, to define the planet’s purpose, max out the buildings, and then build supporting infrastructure based on local deficits is engaging and works. At some point, the planets couldn’t grow because I was research-blocked by the RGO zones. As soon as I had them, I could scale up.
The thing is, we can still build buildings that provide flat jobs — which I like — and it helped me fine-tune the output of my planets. But I often had to divert slots to different things on other planets, which felt weird. In addition, when I started to lack slots for districts or buildings and didn’t have enough pops to work the jobs, it became a bit awkward until my global deficits rebounded. Basically, I was missing the specialized planets needed to scale.
Overall, with a different outlook on the focus of the economy, it felt okay to work with zones. But ultimately, it still felt awkward and non-transparent to find which planet had a certain type of zone so I could build the relevant building — since I couldn’t build it anywhere else.
I think I like the concept of planetary limitation through zones and the tradeoff between autarkic planets and empire-wide logistics. But importing should be much harsher to really encourage that design approach, and there must be a clear avenue for empires to lean into specialized colonies and logistics.
I think we could achieve the same result by having free, limited district slots and choosing every district ourselves — without zones. That way, we could hyper-specialize a colony by building only one or two district types and importing everything else, or use all district slots for different types to make an autarkic planet that provides one empire resource free of charge.
It all hinges on how much you want to utilize the new logistics resource. I think it should be a major game-changer — to bring merit to the system and integrate it better by making it dependent on distance to the importer. A wide empire should really have to consider where the only food producer is, because of the impact on finances. Even centralized logistics should lose efficiency based on jump distance.
This could open up a whole new gameplay system in diplomacy, where we make trade deals for resources imported from outside the empire — if the trade partner’s colony is closer than our own producers. Or we live with the tradeoff and build more autarkic planets that don’t eat up resources but provide less.
Also, I think the trade deficit from missing local production is either not working or not being shown.
P.S. I think the biggest reason why this worked better now is that basically the amount of jobs per zone is now really small and manageable.
The approach to min-max every planet to have one zone or so, to define the planet’s purpose, max out the buildings, and then build supporting infrastructure based on local deficits is engaging and works. At some point, the planets couldn’t grow because I was research-blocked by the RGO zones. As soon as I had them, I could scale up.
The thing is, we can still build buildings that provide flat jobs — which I like — and it helped me fine-tune the output of my planets. But I often had to divert slots to different things on other planets, which felt weird. In addition, when I started to lack slots for districts or buildings and didn’t have enough pops to work the jobs, it became a bit awkward until my global deficits rebounded. Basically, I was missing the specialized planets needed to scale.
Overall, with a different outlook on the focus of the economy, it felt okay to work with zones. But ultimately, it still felt awkward and non-transparent to find which planet had a certain type of zone so I could build the relevant building — since I couldn’t build it anywhere else.
I think I like the concept of planetary limitation through zones and the tradeoff between autarkic planets and empire-wide logistics. But importing should be much harsher to really encourage that design approach, and there must be a clear avenue for empires to lean into specialized colonies and logistics.
I think we could achieve the same result by having free, limited district slots and choosing every district ourselves — without zones. That way, we could hyper-specialize a colony by building only one or two district types and importing everything else, or use all district slots for different types to make an autarkic planet that provides one empire resource free of charge.
It all hinges on how much you want to utilize the new logistics resource. I think it should be a major game-changer — to bring merit to the system and integrate it better by making it dependent on distance to the importer. A wide empire should really have to consider where the only food producer is, because of the impact on finances. Even centralized logistics should lose efficiency based on jump distance.
This could open up a whole new gameplay system in diplomacy, where we make trade deals for resources imported from outside the empire — if the trade partner’s colony is closer than our own producers. Or we live with the tradeoff and build more autarkic planets that don’t eat up resources but provide less.
Also, I think the trade deficit from missing local production is either not working or not being shown.
P.S. I think the biggest reason why this worked better now is that basically the amount of jobs per zone is now really small and manageable.
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Maybe it's only me, but I love hyper-specializing my planets and I think it's one of the most rewarding parts of the game. It's fun to build them up over time into insane engines of industry cranking out ungodly amounts of consumer goods or whatever, and hope that this isn't eliminated by the rework!
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This is also my experience so far. Theoretically, Zones compartmentalizing buildings allows for significantly improved mixed-output planets. The combination of limited total Zones and difficulty keeping pops on the right jobs if I need one output more than the other when a district completes is impeding that, however, so that I'm still inventivized to divide planets to one job only.
I still think prioritizing and deprioritizing jobs will mostly fix that, but it probably still needs a little more than that (assuming you implement such a thing). Long-term, we aren't generally going to get jobs we NEVER want to fill (we just wouldn't build the Zone causing them to exist if we didn't want them at all), but besides that I think it also needs a degree of customization in the ratio of jobs that wasn't possible when last I played the beta and as far as I know hasn't been added since. Perhaps not, though - again, I shouldn't generally have jobs being added that I NEVER want, just that I don't want pops to move to at that time.
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To be fair, zones aren't the only thing suddenly encouraging specialization. Planetary designations already heavily encourage it, as the strongest effects are for a single resource. With planetary ascension, that only gets stronger.
Orbital rings can only buff two resources, so they are also a limit, though more open than designation.
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Also modifiers that reward certain industries and/or penalize others. Anyone seen what Wenkwort looks like with the caretaker buff in 4.0?
We need to be able to completely destroy a Zone.
Not just change it to another type. Destroy it.
Specifically, we need this in order to build a Resort world, which must be "completely unspoilt", and you already have an Urban zone on the planet (or whatever).
Not just change it to another type. Destroy it.
Specifically, we need this in order to build a Resort world, which must be "completely unspoilt", and you already have an Urban zone on the planet (or whatever).
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Hello! When do I get access to the Colonial Centralization and the Colonial Bureaucracy tech? It's year 83 and I can't build more zones on my other planets. They aren't in the progress tree either. Are they RNG? They feel a bit too crucial to be RNG. I didn't unlock Mine buildings until about year 50 either.....
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Is it just me or do planetary designations seem kind of redundant now?
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Unity from faction can be 100+ at almost day one if pick parliament. Most likely bug and output will somehow reduced to normal(?) later.
Research output are really low, jobs from each zone and building block lab are equal to one old researcher job.
Pops no longer switching endlessly and immigration work, can colonize guarantee worlds with similar phase like old pop system.
Switch city district name based on zones is really good.
Research output are really low, jobs from each zone and building block lab are equal to one old researcher job.
Pops no longer switching endlessly and immigration work, can colonize guarantee worlds with similar phase like old pop system.
Switch city district name based on zones is really good.
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Mmm not really in my opinion, still provides the buff and let's me mark the planets so that I can remember what I planned for a planet or distinguish what planet is what on a glance.
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It did occur to me while they were showcasing the flavour text for unique district combinations on the recent stream that it felt very familiar and basically "Planetary designation, but with extra steps".
I know the buff still does stuff but it seems like zones would have that mostly covered. I was thinking about what Imp0815 said:
And my first thought was "Well that's what the designation icons are for", but then I was thinking that zones + designation seem like kind of doing the same thing twice, and there might be a better way to put those icons on there that could let you put up two or maybe three.
e:
Or icons based on these descriptions.
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