Suggestions for Improved Moddability

[Meneth]

FYI, this is currently covered by registering an on_death on_action event which triggers for holders of the trait and, in the event effect, adds the trait to ROOT's current_heir scope. Not as nice as a 'inherit = yes' flag in the trait definition but, still, it's easily achieved via this more dynamic mechanism that's been available for awhile now.

EDIT: My solution doesn't cover abdication, but then that's arguably not really "inherited succession" anyway, at least not in most ways the game [rarely] uses abdication.

Does current_heir work on a per-title basis though? With gavelkind for example you might want all inheriting children to get the trait, while current_heir (to my knowledge) will only give it to your primary heir.

 

[Meneth]

EDIT: Maybe you just weren't aware that you can use the current_heir scope enclosed within a title scope.

Bingo.
I'll wipe that off the list then, since it has essentially always been possible.

 

[Meneth]

Modding proposal, extended (has already been proposed, but since EU4 v1.4 implemented even more than my previously modest suggestion, it seems reasonable to ask for the same functionality that was introduced for modders in EU4 v1.4):

Variable arithmetic and comparison (against other variables), both intra-scope (different variable names) and cross-scope (same or different variable names). Scopes supported should be at least character and province, the current scopes in which the extremely limited variable support currently in CKII already function. Please see this post from Paradox developer Captain Gars on the EU4 modding forum in response to my same request, which is when he first announced that he had implemented and tested all the new requested variable operations (and more), including cross-scope arithmetic/comparison even between different types of scopes (province vs. country in EU4), as well as automatic tooltip localisation for the variables.

He came back with this in a matter of a day. Meanwhile, CKII modders spend hours and hours each, some on a very regular basis, emulating arithmetic and simply failing to be able to provide the same kind of dynamic and powerful mod functionality that would be possible if CKII modding support were not inferior to that of EU4 v1.4, in this respect.

Official related patch notes from the release of EU4 1.4:
- Added effect multiply_variable
- Added effect divide_variable
- All variable effects can now take a second variable as an argument
- check_variable trigger now works the same way as variable effects
- All variable effects and triggers can now take a scope as an argument

So when can I stop emulating binary arithmetic through recursive events with power-of-2 compare-and-subtract chains (only works for integers)? You know, all to compare a single variable to another single variable, or a trigger like wealth... Please end the madness.

Added a section:
Variables:

• Allow multiplication and division of variables (like in EU4)
• Allow comparing two variables
• Allow comparing the same variable from two different scopes (E.G., var1 in ROOT, and var1 in FROM)
• Allow effects/conditions to use variables instead of only pure numbers (E.G:, wealth = var)
• Allow mathematical operations involving multiple variables (E.G., var1 = var2 * var3)

Tell me if I missed anything.

 

[Meneth]

Couldn't you add it in the conversation event?

Conversion by diplomacy can't be modded to my knowledge.

Added "Allow banning specific religions from converting via diplomacy" to the list.

 

[Meneth]

Expanding on this, I think having general 'trigger=' or 'potential=' requirements for various diplomatic actions would be great. In the AGOT mod for example we have to make absurd prestige or piety requirements to ban certain actions.

Added:

• Allow scripting the availability of diplomatic interactions via "allow" and "potential" sections

Make retinue limit modifier work in demesne laws. Currently its impossible to make demesne laws affect retinue limit. (I tried modding in Scutage Law, that increases retinue limit and tax from castle vassals, while decreases levies from castle vassals)

Added:

• Allow demesne/crown laws to modify retinue limits by absolute and relative amounts

One thing I'd like to see is the possibility for titular duchies to not be counted for the penalty "too many held duchies"... in the end they are only honoraries titles with no land attached...

Added:

• Make whether titular duchies count towards the "too many held duchies" limit toggleable

I would like foreign courts to be able to hand out minor titles to people. So that if I create a title 'prince' for dynastic grandchildren of a king, the realm name will be correct.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Could you elaborate?

Idk if it's been asked before but new events with up to 8 options that can later be used by modders.

Added:

• Make it possible to have more than 4 event options, for example via a scrollbar if more options than 4 are available

Is it possible to code a succession law that allows only the independent ruler of a kingdom/empire to vote on a heir, that way it allows you to pick the best heir?

Succession is hardcoded. So your suggestion is covered under "Moddable succession laws (E.G., ability to add new ones)"

Make buildings affect army movement speed.

ex: I build a dirt road in a county. +20% Movement Speed or something.

Added:

• Allow buildings to affect movement speed in the province

 

[Meneth]

I've had the thread rename from "A Petition for Improved Moddability" as I've grown tired of petition threads.
The purpose of the thread remains the same as always.

 

[Meneth]

Two suggestions for localisation section
* Allow cultural names for titles to be specified for whole culture groups e.g. arabic = "Qahirah", altaic = "Demirkapi"
* Allow title names to be dependent on religions and religion groups, e.g. christian = "Alexandria"

Both added to the list.

 

[Meneth]

Allow a liege to join a faction in his own realm when an appropriate faction is in place (at the moment, the button simply isn't there at all for independents, which makes it a lot harder to, for example, create the conflict around centralizing a feudal realm with the help of factions)

Will add to list.

The ability to set the faction strength at which a faction revolts (not possible under NAI in the defines, nor in the faction file itself)

Faction revolts only happen by decision, event, etc. So when they happen is entirely moddable.
They don't just spontaneously rebel.

 

[Meneth]

Another idea again relative to titles: change them based on the title of the liege for example:

1. King of France vassal of The Roman Empire, the title become "Prefecture of Gallia" and the ruler is a "Prefect" not a King
2. King of the North vassal of the Iron Throne (which title is "King" not Emperor) is a "Lord Paramount" but if indipendent it returns a King... in GOT this is done with two titles "King of North" that is the "Lord Paramountship" vassal of the Iron Throne and "Empire of The North" formable only if indipendent
3. King of Belfast (or Belfas?) vassal of the King of Gondor is a Prince of a "The Principality of Belfast" but if indipendent is a "King", in the Middle Earth Project if they become indipendent they will remain Princes... you should need to create a titular title for any vassal of Gondor to make them King...

Title names can to my knowledge be changed by event, so pretty much everything you mention is doable.
The more general thing, changing the title name "tier" based on whether it is independent or not is already on the list (specifically for ruler titles, but it applies to titles as well I'd say).

Could my request for a dynasty_head scope be added to the OP? I'm almost certain I posted it in this thread before, but it appears to have been overlooked.

Sure, will do.

I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet but the ability to check faction loyalty and having rebelling factions check the troop count of loyal factions vs. their own troop count would make for massively improved gameplay.

I'm not sure faction loyalty is even a thing?

meneth is there still a ck2 modding reddit?

Not that I know of, no.

For the actual suggestion list, how about mechanics that make it so that a crown law can designate whether or not a vassal needs their liege's permission to create a tittle higher than their current primary. Also, one that flags whether or not vassals can create any titles without asking for permission from their liege.

Added.

This is something that is right up my alley, and something that myself, cybrkhan, and iron0037 have been harping about since TOG. It certainly works if you consider the northern pagan peoples as the only target for eventual conversion, but falls flat in any other circumstance.

However, I'd take it a step further, and say that the line "christian_portraits = yes" in 00_graphicalculturetype.txt should be revamped for a variety of conditions. The way I think would work best, given my history of extensive portrait modding, is this:

• Remove the pagan vs. non-pagan distinction with the christian portraits line
• Allow the religious distinction to be pointed at specific religions or religion groups (To specify, for instance, between "christian portraits" and something more focused like "catholic" or "myaphisite" portraits)
• Allow the scripting to be dynamic with something like "religion_group_portraits = yes" which would let the user script the "religion" and point the graphicalculturetypes file to the appropriate religion file and line.

On a similar note, something could also be done to the portrait_properties.txt file the same way the .gfx extension files are working to point to specific cultures. So, for portrait_properties_culture.txt the 'rules' for which clothing is displayed could be different for each culture. No more needing to encapsulate exceptions for mismatched pieces (Like the "Not suitable for African women of Western culture" exceptions inside the file). This would also benefit some of the non-Western cultures and keep them from only having one Ducal-tier headgear. A circlet works great for the Western Europeans, but it's very limiting without some more intensive coding that acts as a barrier of entry to many modders.

Then, I would also suggest the ability to manually add completely new "P" lines in the .gfx and properties files. Then modders could code visual icons over certain conditions like pregnancy or add things like separate jewelry.

Also, opening up the system for religious/merchant clothing for modding. Then, modders could create things like custom clothing for religious orders, Muslim patricians, etc.

Just my two cents.

Added those three points as a "portraits" section.

I wish that decadence be made moddable for the benefit of those who like to create custom religions. Same deal with the pentarchy (ie. designate custom pentarchies for different religions).

I think it'll be best to wait till RoI is actually out so that we know how moddable it is then. The list already has "Allow using the decadence mechanic for any religion" though, and "Ability to set separate pentarchy groups for different religions".

 

[Meneth]

I've moved two suggestions to the implemented suggestions list. If I've missed anything, please do tell:

• Allow splitting culture/religion group across multiple files so that so that keeping small mods compatible with other projects becomes simpler. E.G., allow assigning parent group in the culture/religion itself, so it can exist in an independent file (I've confirmed that this works for both cultures and religions)
• Ability to add ports to inland seas (separate seas are now supported. They still have to be two provinces large to count though)

I'd like to see something more on naming.

Mostly, I would like the option to set how rare certain names are. A big example of this is how all new Popes in the game get strange names, and rarely ever just go with John or Benedict, like most would. With this, it would be nice to only allow certain names for certain dynasties, or title holders' dynasties, to allow "royal names". Another addition regarding names is the ability to tell the game that two names, even though one male and one female, mean the same thing. This way a parent could name their daughter after the child's grandfather, or their son after the child's grandmother.

Added:

• Ability to change the relative frequency of names. (E.G., William might be set to three times as common as Godfrey)
• Ability to define names unique to a dynasty rather than a culture
• Ability to limit specific names to the dynasty of the holder of a specific title

The one about androgynous names sounds rather unlikely to happen, as it'd make the naming system a lot more complicated.

I'd wish for a reverse version of open elective law that generates random character with provinces religion and either provinces or lieges culture.

Covered under "moddable succession laws".

Suggestion:

I would love to see a flag or something that allows me to grant landed titles to certain women under agnatic/agnatic-cognatic succession.

Added:

• Allow laws to directly determine whether land can be granted to unlanded women, overriding succession law

The ability to set religion parameters (allow_raiding = yes and the like) in the cultures file.

Added:

• Allow applying religion mechanics to specific cultures rather than religions. (E.G., one might want to make Mongols able to raid regardless of their religion)

It would be insanely useful to be able to have a console command which dumps all scopes and all valid scope commands to a text file. I've spent most of today putting together an up-to-date list for the Character scope, which took ages, is incomplete, will be out of date come the next update, and probably has lots of errors.

By contrast the game already knows everything there is to know, and it shouldn't be too hard to make it spit the details out in an instant. No more confusion!

Added:

• Console command to print every scope, command, and condition to the log

any_religion scope and being able to scope to a specific religion directly, like:

any_religion ={
 limit = {
  religion_group = christian
  NOT = { THIS = ROOT }
 }
 parent = ROOT
}

orthodox = {
 can_call_crusade = yes
}

Added:

• any_religion scope, and being able to scope directly to a religion. Would allow changing religion mechanics and reassign heresies on the fly (E.G., orthodox = { can_call_crusade = yes })

Hmm, random thought: modifiers or a modifier that affects how much loot you can get in raiding (I.e something like "loot_amount = 0.05" means you get 5% more loot than you normally would when riding)

Added_

• An event/law/etc modifiable modifier to how much gold is gained from looting. (E.G., loot_amount = 0.05 would give the character 5% more cash from raiding)

 

[Meneth]

I want the ability to make multiple versions of the Pentarchy (not necessarily being limited to five either) either that or duplicate it with having a similar system to that of the Pagan Holy Sites.

Already on the list:

• Ability to set separate pentarchy groups for different religions

 

[Meneth]

Somewhere on this thread, perhaps two or three tens of pages ago, I declared an interest in an event command, which I guess won't hurt repeating:

destroy_random_holding
destroy_temple
destroy_castle
destroy_city

none of which, of course, would apply to the county capital.

Added:

• Allow destroying random holdings, cities, castles, and temples in a province (destroy_random_holding, destroy_temple, destroy_castle, destroy_city)

 

[Meneth]

Ability to add the feminist = yes thing to cultures as well as religions.

They ability to add:
river_movement = yes
feminist = yes
marriage rules

Covered under:

• Allow applying religion mechanics to specific cultures rather than religions. (E.G., one might want to make Mongols able to raid regardless of their religion)

 

[Meneth]

Could we add the ability to put dynamic localisation into nicknames on this list? It'd be a big help to MJ on his War of the Roses Project.

Could you elaborate?

I add this:

1. Make usable the so called Papal Succession for secular rulers too. For example it could be used to mimic the Roman Senate that should elect the ruler of the Roman Empire and the Electors of the HRE (after the golden bull). Some way to have more clear why the Preferatus (Caesar / King of the Romans) is... preferred. I suppose some mechanic to try to convince with bribe or whatever to vote your Preferatus should be necessary for be usable for player... in the end it seems always a random bishop is selected with no particular interesting trait (a learning 5 bishop become the Pope and my chaplain with 25 no? Why?)!
2. Appointment Succession for indipendent rulers this should mean that effectively you have the power to select your successor without having to bribe anyone... this could emulate the Late Roman Empire and probably Byzantium itself...

1. Added to list as:

• Allow any realm to use Papal succession

2. I think this mostly goes under "moddable succession laws"

1.The ability to have multiple localisations for Titled_Name, Titled_First_Name, and Landed_Full_Ruler_Title depending on the landed/minor title, culture, or religion in question. (Perhaps something like Titled_Name_1, Titled_Name_2, Titled_Name_3 etc.)

Isnt' this pretty much covered under the following?

• Ability to change title localisation based on whether the title is independent (E.G., and independent kingdom being a "Kingdom", but a vassal kingdom being a "Grand Duchy")
• Ability to change title localisation based on whether the title is titular or not
• Ability to change title localisation based on religion

2. The ability to feature all sorts of dynamic localisation in Nicknames, the Titled_Name, Titled_First_Name and Landed_Full_Ruler_Title localisations.
3. The ability to display the housename of someone's current/most recently deceased spouse in the Titled_Name localisation.
4. The removal of hardcoding on the titles "title_prince", "title_ruler_consort", and "title_queen_mother".
5. The ability to set a certain 'of' context to a minor title.

2. That's rather vague
3. Could you explain this in a bit more detail? I'm not entirely sure how titled_name functions
4. In what manner are they hardcoded? (I don't have that much experience with the intricacies of localisation)
5. I can't say I know how this would function in practice. Could you elaborate?

 

[Meneth]

1. No it is not, because I want to change the actual 'order' of the words. For example, if I wanted to do '$NAME$, $TITLE$ of $HOLDING$' instead of "$TITLE$$NAME$ of $HOLDING$" for certain titles. There are many other things that I would love to do if only I had that ability.

2. By dynamic localisation, I mean $THESE$ and [Things.that.look.like.this]. I would like to be able to use them in nicknames and other areas, but currently I cannot.

3. Titled_Name is simply the localisation line that displays how someone's full title would look. By default, it is set to $TITLE$$NAME$ of $HOLDING$. As I mentioned in '1', I would love to be able to play around like this, having different titles, or localisations of titles link to a certain (modified) version of this line. One thing I would like to do would be to display someone's surname/married surname in this (mainly for immersive purposes).

4. This isn't really a localisation thing. If you look in the document that handles minor titles, those three are currently hardcoded. Ideally, I'd like the hardcoding to be removed, so I can create further titles using those same hardcoded mechanics. (For example, I'd like to create a minor title the code for 'title_prince' that hands out a certain title to grandchildren of kings, children of dukes etc.)

5. Let's say I made a title 'Dowager Duchess', for a widowed wife of a duke, that was handed out by an event. Things would be all fine and dandy until she moved to a different court, because then the 'of' portion of the title would change. Thus the Dowager Duchess of Cornwall would become the Dowager Duchess of <RANDOM PLACE>, which is silly and annoying. So what I want, is for there to be a way to bind the minor title to a certain Holding, so no matter where this gal goes, she will always be known as the Dowager Duchess of Cornwall.

Sorry, I'm pretty terrible at explaining things. I know there are a million more important things that need to be made moddable, but I just had to get that out of my system.

1. Added:

• Allow changing the order of dynamic tokens in ruler title localisation (E.G., having certain titles localised as "William, King of England" instead of "King William of England")

2. Added:

• Allow using localisation commands (E.G., [Root.Religion.GetName]) in nicknames

3. I still don't quite understand how this would function.
4. Can't you still give it to whoever though by event/decision/etc? That's how changing regents by event works
5. Okay, that makes some sense. Added:

• Allow minor titles' localisation to be bound to a specific title. E.G., a Dowager Duchess of Cornwall would continue to be called "of Cornwall" even if she moved to a different court

 

[Meneth]

Spoiler

3. This can probably be combined with '1'. Basically I want to also be able to use more types $THESE$ and [These.kinds.of.things] in the Titled_Name, Titled_First_Name, and Landed_Full_Ruler_Title lines of localisation, and make it so that different titles can scope to different versions of these.

For example, let's say I wanted to make a title 'Lady' for a daughter of an earl/duke, who is named Anne Grey. In game currently, it would be displayed as Lady Anne of Cornwall. What I would like to do, however, is make it so that this specific title would be displayed differently. Namely, I would like it to be displayed as 'Lady Anne Grey'.

If being able to use dynamic localisation in nicknames is implemented, I could accomplish this same thing. But, I would need lots of events to support it, and it would cause a lot of lag.

I've edited it to say:

• Allow changing the order of localisation commands in ruler title localisation (E.G., having certain titles localised as "William, King of England" instead of "King William of England", or "Lady Anne Grey" instead of "Lady Anne of Cornwall"), and allow using relevant localisation commands ([Root.Whatever]) in title localisation. This could function similar to how specific titles can currently have custom ruler title names (E.G., "Basileus")

4. I could, but one property I like about the 'title_prince' is that the 'of <place>' part always stays the same, no matter what court you go to. Other than that, creating a bunch of events to support all these titles can create lag and are very time consuming.

Covered by this, no?

• Allow minor titles' localisation to be bound to a specific title. E.G., a Dowager Duchess of Cornwall would continue to be called "of Cornwall" even if she moved to a different court

Could you change the above suggestion to:

Done.

 

[Meneth]

Just a few things that would be IMO helpful:

- Adjust the 'join_attacker_wars =' and 'join_defender_wars =' effects. Currently these effects can only add a character into one war. e.g. If FROM is currently in 2 or more defensive wars the join_defender_wars = FROM effect will only add the character to one of FROM's wars. Ideally it should be all of them.

- Some sort of trigger like 'is_allied_with =' , which would check to see if the characters are allied. any_ally and random_ally scopes would also be useful.

- 'can_inherit = yes/no' and 'can_marry = yes/no' triggers which checks if a character has traits that forbid inheritance/marriage

- I've noticed the latest vanilla patch has started culling a lot more courtiers, presumably in an optimisation effort. Some of way of flagging characters as important so they aren't culled by the game engine would be nice. e.g. we have dragons/dragon riders in the AGOT mod that are sometimes culled and would like this to not happen.

- Family palace buildings can have character effects, e.g. monthly_character_piety and stat changes. Would be good to be able to apply these to all types of building in other types of holding.

1. That really sounds more like a bug, no? I've added this to the list now though, which is somewhat related:

• Make it possible to force characters to join a side in a war by event/decision/etc (specific war, unlike join_attacker_wars)

2. I could've sworn I had that on the list. Added now:

• An is_allied = <character> condition

3. Great idea. Added:

• A can_inherit condition; currently one has to check for every trait that prevents inheritance
• A can_marry condition; currently one has to check for every trait that prevents marriage

4. Added:

• A way to flag a character as important so that the game won't kill it off for optimization reasons

5. If that's not already the case, that also sounds like a bug of sorts

 

[Meneth]

3. Great idea. Added:

• A can_inherit condition; currently one has to check for every trait that prevents inheritance
• A can_marry condition; currently one has to check for every trait that prevents marriage

Turns out can_marry already exists. Removed that from the list.

 

[Meneth]

How about a flag or something similar that tells the AI to prioritize getting control of a specific province to replace the AI's fixation on getting the historic capitals? That way the Byzantine emperor and French king will prioritize getting Constantinople or Paris while the Holy Roman Emperor will be perfectly content with his own holdings.

I think the point about title flags would cover this pretty well, since then you could modify the AI's ai_will_do to account for that.
The AI being fixated on capitals themselves sound like more of a design issue, so I'm not 100% sure it belongs on the list.

 

[Meneth]

True, they are probably bugs, but I've reported these problems months ago so I'd guess were more likely to get them fixed this way

I can't say I like to put bugs on the list.

I've tested this trigger before and it doesn't work with yes/no values, only ROOT/FROM/PREV etc

Vanilla has a can_marry = yes in various_traits_events.txt. If that doesn't work then that's another bug