Those terms arent negotiable. I am not giving up any land unless you can force me to. 
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EGO attacked me while i wasnt even there, sounds like rule violation to me. And then he demands half of my colonial possessions and says you must accept that because we were in war for five years, half of them i wasnt even there. First that cant be demanded and secondly it werent 5 years. And i did comply to your demand; i didnt vassalise nor annexed america. Saber will agrre with me that if I conquer all of the american provinces except one, I didnt vassalise it nor annexed it.
What have you tried to work out? Your demands and actions very unfavorable for England, first tricking me in to not attacking you, and then you backstab me? Well shame on me for being aggressive. I rather died then giving in to that, too bad i did.
I thouht i had it covered though, China was going to help me with rebels up in NA and attack Pegu, too bad they didnt or at least when it was too late. And
Spain was going to attack too but they were preoccupied too.
If itll stay this way I have no point playing the rest of the game, Ill lose from almost everyone and the ones I had a reasonable chance of beating or way out of my reach now. Im as good as broke, I dont make money I have almost no
Saber, you calling in some eu2warpro doesnt make me a unresponsible player ,I would have whooped your ass. Im not asking you to give me back my provs.
P.S. please never tell me that I can't curse when im angry, that is probably the most insulting thing you can do to me.
P.S.2 is it legal to reattack a country within the thruce, because that way you only have to win it once and you can keep your armies where they are and keep winning and then you can demand whatever you want. that way you could conquer england in prolly 6 wars, say im stubborn then ill have to lose another 30 years and ill be dead?
What have you tried to work out? Your demands and actions very unfavorable for England, first tricking me in to not attacking you, and then you backstab me? Well shame on me for being aggressive. I rather died then giving in to that, too bad i did.
I thouht i had it covered though, China was going to help me with rebels up in NA and attack Pegu, too bad they didnt or at least when it was too late. And
Spain was going to attack too but they were preoccupied too.
If itll stay this way I have no point playing the rest of the game, Ill lose from almost everyone and the ones I had a reasonable chance of beating or way out of my reach now. Im as good as broke, I dont make money I have almost no
Saber, you calling in some eu2warpro doesnt make me a unresponsible player ,I would have whooped your ass. Im not asking you to give me back my provs.
P.S. please never tell me that I can't curse when im angry, that is probably the most insulting thing you can do to me.
P.S.2 is it legal to reattack a country within the thruce, because that way you only have to win it once and you can keep your armies where they are and keep winning and then you can demand whatever you want. that way you could conquer england in prolly 6 wars, say im stubborn then ill have to lose another 30 years and ill be dead?
So basically England is in the hands of the goodwill of foreign powers?
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Max, I am willing to compromise. I will not give back provinces to you however, but I am willing to talk and get a deal in hand. You may not like it, but it would still leave you in a position to influence the world.
It may be harsh, I am sorry it happened to you in this game but you should never be so aggressive about 1 provinces when you do not have an big advantage. If you planned your wars you could have won, without it contributed to your defeat.
Max, EGO had every right to DOW you when you were away, he wanted to attack you when you were there, and then you had to "eat". If EGO did not DOW, your WE would go down and the lead would be lost.
Bear in mind that Sweden's WE was not decreaseing at that time as well.
And, I find it very very lame to have you leave in middle of a session every time. Last session you abused your "afkness" so I was very mad about it. I am not sorry for you being on recieveing end now.
For the last time, talk to me and we can deal.
It may be harsh, I am sorry it happened to you in this game but you should never be so aggressive about 1 provinces when you do not have an big advantage. If you planned your wars you could have won, without it contributed to your defeat.
Max, EGO had every right to DOW you when you were away, he wanted to attack you when you were there, and then you had to "eat". If EGO did not DOW, your WE would go down and the lead would be lost.
Bear in mind that Sweden's WE was not decreaseing at that time as well.
And, I find it very very lame to have you leave in middle of a session every time. Last session you abused your "afkness" so I was very mad about it. I am not sorry for you being on recieveing end now.
For the last time, talk to me and we can deal.
When i joined the game i specificly asked if it was a problem that i had to eat during the session. It wasnt. I waited to the end of the war to go afk just like a did last week when i proposed a WP even though i was way ahead of you. I see no faults in that.
Paul The Great said:
Ok, let's remember last session first. You were ahead a bit in battle WS, but no way near of getting anything. I easily countered all your moves (as proved by EGO this session). Then you left and I was FORCED to stay at war while my allies were alone fighting. I demanded a WP because you left, there was some confusion but I understood it has been granted. Then after you get back, no one informs me you are back (Hamachi) and you start offensive moves with me still thinking you are AFK. Then you refuse WP which I asked for. If you offered WP, you should have accepted it then.
Now let's get back to the issue. I fail to see how Sweden is a villain here, Sweden got 1 province from England, ok it was a valuable province but it still does not justify game long feud and war England promised me and threats of bringing me down. His offers for that CoT were give it to me or I will fight you till the end of the game. Who would accept that? After that he starts a war, where I fight for whole session lose a lot of cash, then EGO gets in, wins a war. Then after a while he goes and tries to secure Swedish position in regards to England who still continued with threats. EGO offered lenient peace at first, and as Max forced him to lose more and more gold to the war he increased demands as would anyone do. Then 3rd war was so he gets a NAP, that's not unreasonable IMO.
Now, I am offering a way out for Max, my offer is.
Sweden returns European English provinces to England
England accepts unbreakable vassalization until the game end
England is forbidden to trade in Swedish CoTs and Mughal CoTs
England recognizes my claims in all of current Swedish territories and vassals + Copenhagen and Gotland
I offered this to Max, he bluntly refused. In his words he will never accept vassalization and his counter offer was "You give me provinces back, and we sign a game long NAP".
It must be noted that Sweden did not want to do anything to England and that England brought this onto itself. I am sorry it's harsh on Max since he is inexperienced but I will not allow a beaten foe to return and fight me again.
Also, we should not that Max broke a peace deal (by taking all of provs from USA). I am asking for GM to make a ruling if peace deals can be broken?
Also, if Max accepts offer I proposed, I ask for GMs assurance it cannot be broken. A rule should be implemented.
EDIT: Vassalization does mean that he can't attack my allies, formal or INFORMAL.
I knew something would happen similar to this, and as I've said to Tonio, it's his problem now. BTW Saber, Ego said you accepted Copenhagen and Gotland as Spanish, which means that they'll stay nice and Spanish till 1819 I suppose. It'd be nice if you bothered to mention that to me at some point though.
With that said, I'll probably leave this campaign as I mentioned to Absolut and Bunka last session as I'm spending too much time on it, which I'd rather devote to other things like school and work. The situation is at least partly the result of my own failed diplomacy which leaves Spain's hands tied at crucial moments like this. Spain has a fleet and Cordoba, and the only one she can attack without breaking her word is the already beaten England. What the hell is wrong with me? Anyway, maybe it's time to give a new Spain a chance to shine, and I find I waste too much damn time on this game and related activities, and I'd rather focus on other things. I'll find a new perm for the game to take over Spain who's in otherwise good shape.
Sid, you are the worst GM that I've ever participated in a campaign under. I'm not saying this to flame, but I think you don't realize how flippant you are, and how incapable of making a firm stand on anything you appear to be. How *exactly* do you plan to compensate England with half of his cores under Swedish rule? I have a problem with you allowing a player to attack a country with a player absent. "Oh, Ego is a forceful personality" is NO EXCUSE to ever lose a handle on a game. You're the GM of the game, it's time like you started acting like one.
If this is such a problem, Max shouldn't have been allowed in the campaign to begin with, but this is the second time it's posed a problem, and you've taken no logical action that's fair to everyone. It's obvious that Max has to eat every session about the same time, and that he can't do anything to control that. That's how some families are and if you're a kid, you either get with the program or lose the computer altogether. Just ask Bunka. If Sweden wanted to fight, which was his legitimate right, we needed to stop the session for half an hour to allow Max to eat then since he had no choice and you were fine with it when he joined the campaign OR find a sub. Allowing players to continue to fight against a ghosted country is just repugnant to me, but what you did last session was also not fair to Saber who had to give up valuable time under threat of another Spanish DOW. It didn't pan out that way, but it COULD have. I would have DoWed him if he continued his invasion against a missing England, but you should know Sid, that I only would have done this because of your failure as a GM. Either rehost and sub England, or we wait 30 minutes. Allowing a country to attack another country with no player is just unacceptable, and in fact violates your own rules.
Someone had to say it.
With that said, I'll probably leave this campaign as I mentioned to Absolut and Bunka last session as I'm spending too much time on it, which I'd rather devote to other things like school and work. The situation is at least partly the result of my own failed diplomacy which leaves Spain's hands tied at crucial moments like this. Spain has a fleet and Cordoba, and the only one she can attack without breaking her word is the already beaten England. What the hell is wrong with me? Anyway, maybe it's time to give a new Spain a chance to shine, and I find I waste too much damn time on this game and related activities, and I'd rather focus on other things. I'll find a new perm for the game to take over Spain who's in otherwise good shape.
Sid, you are the worst GM that I've ever participated in a campaign under. I'm not saying this to flame, but I think you don't realize how flippant you are, and how incapable of making a firm stand on anything you appear to be. How *exactly* do you plan to compensate England with half of his cores under Swedish rule? I have a problem with you allowing a player to attack a country with a player absent. "Oh, Ego is a forceful personality" is NO EXCUSE to ever lose a handle on a game. You're the GM of the game, it's time like you started acting like one.
If this is such a problem, Max shouldn't have been allowed in the campaign to begin with, but this is the second time it's posed a problem, and you've taken no logical action that's fair to everyone. It's obvious that Max has to eat every session about the same time, and that he can't do anything to control that. That's how some families are and if you're a kid, you either get with the program or lose the computer altogether. Just ask Bunka. If Sweden wanted to fight, which was his legitimate right, we needed to stop the session for half an hour to allow Max to eat then since he had no choice and you were fine with it when he joined the campaign OR find a sub. Allowing players to continue to fight against a ghosted country is just repugnant to me, but what you did last session was also not fair to Saber who had to give up valuable time under threat of another Spanish DOW. It didn't pan out that way, but it COULD have. I would have DoWed him if he continued his invasion against a missing England, but you should know Sid, that I only would have done this because of your failure as a GM. Either rehost and sub England, or we wait 30 minutes. Allowing a country to attack another country with no player is just unacceptable, and in fact violates your own rules.
Someone had to say it.
Paul The Great said:
Rules said:
Ghosted nations are one thing, AFK is totaly another. I told you privately, and even in public that i was going to DOW, then you came up with the idea that you had to go soon. After we rehosted for cheech, i stated again, in public, that i was going to DoW, and i would not wait till you got back, to DoW you - you had 15 WE - that was a freaking huge advantage. If i had waited 40 minutes, the time you took to "eat", the WE would be gone for good. I stated in public, to get a sub, or to pause the game till you got back - everyone refused. Tbh, Sid, this is when a GM should have entered in play, checked ICQ and gotten a sub. Having the game paused for 40 minutes because of a player is unaceptable, and having a player "AFK" for 40 minutes in the middle of a war is unaceptable too - i had freaking rebels over and over and had to kill them - making the war already expensive without "really starting".
And seriously speaking, having to go "AFK" in order to eat, specially for 40 minutes, is a fault of respect to everyone in the game - i have played many games, and:
1º i ate before the game
2º i ate after the game
3º i ate in the middle of the game, WITHOUT going AFK
4º i didnt eat
You got 4 options, and "eating in the middle of the game, going AFK" is not one.
Paul The Great said:
Game Log said:
I dowed England 2 days after you peaced USA. And well, i know i am not good at maths but there is a 6 years of diference between 1756, and 1762.
Paul The Great said:
Well, as i said, it was i that made the rules, and colonies, were by that time, every province that had colonial/maltese culture without a CoT - it was meant to make colonial provinces a bit more important then european ones. Meaning i could take 18 provinces in total. But then Sid said i was wrong, and i could only demand 9 provinces from you, either way.
When sid told me that, i thought to myself "why should i demand oversea provinces instead of european ones?" - european ones provide me with MP/ship suply limit, and are richer, so why should i choose colonies? That was why i decided to take 5 of your european provinces.
The rule i made, making oversea provinces (basically everything with maltese culture and without CoTs), count as 0.5, was to make colonial wars more "fair" and to give a player a chance to choose colonies instead of european provinces in a peace proposal. Taking 18 oversea provinces, would have been more fair then taking 9 provinces in europe - taking 9 provinces in europe would criple a nation's ability to wage war, specially for tiny countries.
Paul The Great said:
History Log said:
Well, the deal was that you didnt take any province from them, annexed them, vassalized, or DoWed em. After USA declared indepedence i said i would fight for their freedom.
So it was kind of obvious that you wouldnt take provinces from them, as well. What would be the freaking point of having +40 WS, and send a WP to England, giving them free hand on USA, making USA, which started with 6 provinces, a 1 province minor? You knew what i was speaking about, dont play the idiot now - as you told to cheech, you said you wouldnt take provs from USA.
Paul The Great said:
Ohhh China, spooky. Well, after sid told me that fishy stuff about Pegu and during our little swedish-british war, i had about 100k men in south africa together with 300 warships, and some nice leader i had, just in case you wanted to retake australia, invaded south africa or attacked pegu. The chinese fleet would have been totaly rebuffed, and even if he invaded via land, there was no way leaderless chinese hordes could have taken Pegu - in fact, should china had dowed, he would give only cheap WS - look at california, which is virtually undefended, Hainan, which is an island with a CoT, and to the other 2 coastal CoTs - all cheap targets.
I dont know about mughalese-swedish relations, but i doubt Gamla would stand looking at China.
Spain was napped, but i always thought he would dishonour the nap - after i heard that Zeit was a little backstabber. Spain would make a whole new diference, but i doubt, that Tonio would just stand looking at him, as well. Should Cordoba go to the baltic, the mediteranean would be dominated by the OE - and Spanish continental holdings would be easily overrun with crazy turkish hordes.
Paul The Great said:
I seriously dont know where you are from, or who educated you this way, but saying "FU" all the times i sent a stab hit, or calling me a bitch, is insulting. Now you mean that i am insulting you just by asking you to stay in a good mood? Thats a joke.
SaberDancer said:
I dont know, maybe im stubborn, maybe im stupid, prolly both. I dont want to be a vassal. Definitly not on those terms. You seem to forget that I dont really care anymore. Ill be dead remember, now Spain admits he can only attack me, I dont have any allys who can help me with anything except rebels; Ill die. I think I have to congratulate you with EGO's victory.
If you dont want to kill me then come with something I might accept. Else ill
fight myself to death.
BurningEGO said:
Its kinda hard to stay in a good mood when something like this happens to you. I remember CC3, I was pretty upset and if youd told me to cheer up I would have gone through the roof. I fully understand Max being pissed off at you, or in general but it seems now that hes cooled down so you shouldnt provoke him, it wont do any good at all.
Furthermore, Max was accepted in the game under the conditions that he could go afk 30 minutes every session in order to eat and everyone knew this. Im not saying you should have known this but after people telling you this was the case you shouldnt have attacked him. I strongly disagree with attacking nations which player is absent, be it afk or ghosted, in neither of the cases the attacked nations has no means to defend itself whatsoever. This enabled you to secure the war, he just couldnt win. I am actually inclined to agree with Zeit about Sid not taking a firm enough stance.
Thats just outright crap Absolut - I nearly did anything for the entire war, till i got fed up and invaded Australia to see if you kept your word and paused till Max got back, and/or to see if Sid re-acted and got a sub so i could finally have my war.
Either way, i invaded Australia and no one said a word - 6 months later or so max was back - by then, i had gotten +20 WS.
If i had attacked Max like i did later on, i would have gotten +99 WS in no time. So dont say that i only won because i attacked him while he was AFK - that is just outright BS.
Either way, when i peaced Max, if the game engine had an "unlimited WS system", i would had way more then +150 WS, of that, no doubt. I had gotten most provs deep in England itself, his CoT in NA, all of Australia, some american provs and had about +40 WS from battles only.
And again, 15 WE was too big of an advantage to let him be "AFK" for 40 minutes. In my next game, i am going to be a smartass as well, and when some ubber leader belonging to my enemy apears, i am going to be "AFK" as well. Its just stupid.
Either way, i invaded Australia and no one said a word - 6 months later or so max was back - by then, i had gotten +20 WS.
If i had attacked Max like i did later on, i would have gotten +99 WS in no time. So dont say that i only won because i attacked him while he was AFK - that is just outright BS.
Either way, when i peaced Max, if the game engine had an "unlimited WS system", i would had way more then +150 WS, of that, no doubt. I had gotten most provs deep in England itself, his CoT in NA, all of Australia, some american provs and had about +40 WS from battles only.
And again, 15 WE was too big of an advantage to let him be "AFK" for 40 minutes. In my next game, i am going to be a smartass as well, and when some ubber leader belonging to my enemy apears, i am going to be "AFK" as well. Its just stupid.
BurningEGO said:
Nope, its not crap. I didnt pause the game because first of all I didnt see you in Australia and second of all I was busy and cant look after you.
Im not saying you wouldnt have won if Max had been there, it just would have been much more fair if he had actually been there when you decided to attack him.
So?
Its quite different Id say, but then again, why on earth would you listen to sense?
Anyhow, Im not gonna discuss this, I dont think theres much to discuss really, you did what you did and I think its very bad what you did.
If during the war between Spain-OE, Tonio had to be "AFK" for 40 minutes, i would like to see if Zeit would like it.
Its just awesomely stupid that i am the one being blamed for someone being AFK tbh. I dowed 2 days after he peaced USA - i cant believe he didnt see that before he went AFK.
Its just awesomely stupid that i am the one being blamed for someone being AFK tbh. I dowed 2 days after he peaced USA - i cant believe he didnt see that before he went AFK.
EGO i cant agree with your attitude on the game. You dont have to kill or be killed. Just because player A has good leaders early and B late doesnt mean player A needs to kill player B
PS perhaps you remember saying spain was dead? As it happened i didnt 'rape' him like you claim. I took what was mine and weve been good friends for ages
hes now also one of the strongest in the game
hense you were wrong, i was right
PS perhaps you remember saying spain was dead? As it happened i didnt 'rape' him like you claim. I took what was mine and weve been good friends for ages
hes now also one of the strongest in the game
hense you were wrong, i was right
Cheech - Zeit lived from the good will of most players. If i were to join such a game, i wouldnt do so under these conditions.
Rokka was in the OE back in then, and he usually attacks players that he thinks they are good, in their weakest moment. If i permed spain after you raped it, i am really sure the OE would come to rape me right after. Thats the way Rokka plays, what can i say?
Austria had been at war with Spain and really, with Absolut there, i doubt he would ever befriend with me.
Sweden had just DoWed Spain and saber had told me he had intentions of doing so again, and Sid said he wanted Mexico (???) from Spain. :rofl:
England was the only suitable ally, but the new player in there (zeit i think?) declared all the past agreements and alliances to be null and void, so maybe i would have to deal with yet another enemy.
Then, having to "kiss your ass" as Zeit described it to me, was everything that i didnt want to. Lets face it cheech, i had you in my hands after i subbed - after the next session the game changed totaly. It was so absurd...
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About the current situation, it made me feel no remorse. After understanding that England wanted war till the end of the game against sweden, i took in my hands the mighty task of crushing England before their ubber leaders kicked in.
Between us 2 cheech - would you prefer to be crushed, or to crush your enemy?
Rokka was in the OE back in then, and he usually attacks players that he thinks they are good, in their weakest moment. If i permed spain after you raped it, i am really sure the OE would come to rape me right after. Thats the way Rokka plays, what can i say?
Austria had been at war with Spain and really, with Absolut there, i doubt he would ever befriend with me.
Sweden had just DoWed Spain and saber had told me he had intentions of doing so again, and Sid said he wanted Mexico (???) from Spain. :rofl:
England was the only suitable ally, but the new player in there (zeit i think?) declared all the past agreements and alliances to be null and void, so maybe i would have to deal with yet another enemy.
Then, having to "kiss your ass" as Zeit described it to me, was everything that i didnt want to. Lets face it cheech, i had you in my hands after i subbed - after the next session the game changed totaly. It was so absurd...
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About the current situation, it made me feel no remorse. After understanding that England wanted war till the end of the game against sweden, i took in my hands the mighty task of crushing England before their ubber leaders kicked in.
Between us 2 cheech - would you prefer to be crushed, or to crush your enemy?
if someone tells me they will fight til the end of the game etc i will kill them sure.
but you and some others jump into the kill or be killed mode too soon.
but you and some others jump into the kill or be killed mode too soon.
if someone tells me they will fight til the end of the game etc i will kill them sure.
but you and some others jump into the kill or be killed mode too soon.
but you and some others jump into the kill or be killed mode too soon.
Fine you want a firmer GM asshole so be it, but here's the problem his sunday will be our last session if theres one at all.
No LESS THEN THREE PLAYERS have hinted at or are threatening to quit unless things go their way.
I do not wish to lose players, but frankly I am now sick and tired of it, I tried to be everyones best friend GM in this game so that everyone can have a fun time but noooo I work my butt to allow this game a chance to win when Troy cheated and tried to cancel it and his misery when he thought no one would play with him anymore.
So tell you what I'll let the players who seem to think they can do a better job at GM'ing solve this, how to you compensate England, punish Ego's actions and get all the other duties involved in GM'ing done? This was my first GM'ing aside my stint in ORR.
So tell yuo all what, what about all of you come to me and give me a good reaosn why I should keep this going if so many people have problems with it and threaten blackmail?
All I wanted was for all of us to have fun is that so hard?
No LESS THEN THREE PLAYERS have hinted at or are threatening to quit unless things go their way.
I do not wish to lose players, but frankly I am now sick and tired of it, I tried to be everyones best friend GM in this game so that everyone can have a fun time but noooo I work my butt to allow this game a chance to win when Troy cheated and tried to cancel it and his misery when he thought no one would play with him anymore.
So tell you what I'll let the players who seem to think they can do a better job at GM'ing solve this, how to you compensate England, punish Ego's actions and get all the other duties involved in GM'ing done? This was my first GM'ing aside my stint in ORR.
So tell yuo all what, what about all of you come to me and give me a good reaosn why I should keep this going if so many people have problems with it and threaten blackmail?
All I wanted was for all of us to have fun is that so hard?
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