Talking Turkey: Alternate History from 1936

[diskoerekto]

Great episode with some missed secret war stuff and a lot of characters. I enjoyed it!

Back at home, preparations for the fourth anniversary of the founding of the Glorious Union (28 January) were under way.

The same day as Red Army was founded by Trotsky!

In OTL the CLN was formed on 9 September 1943, following Italy's surrender to the Allies and Germany's invasion of the country. The member parties were the Italian Communist Party, the Italian Socialist Party, the Action Party, Christian Democracy, the Labour Democratic Party, and the Italian Liberal Party. In this ATL, Turkish intervention has caused it to be formed a little early.

Very nice touch about CLN. By the way, if in the future you need more characters for underground communist resistance from The Glorious Union, you can use some Greek resistance leaders as well. In my headcanon in this alternate timeline with no Greek resistance against Nazis or civil war, they'll instead be spreading the revolution.

The first (US licence-built) Turkish mechanised brigade was deployed early that day too, going to 2 Armd Div in Banja Luka. A new licence was purchased for the quicker SP rocket artillery to eventually use with 2 Armd Div (and any future light armoured division Turkey may create). Two licences were purchased, but the units would be built serially.

Good thing is, with minimal research we might be able to build both (a bit inferior in some aspects, but still) of them at home as well

3 Mtn Div joined and reinforced the battle at Vrnograc.

Boys! We'll just march to where all this noise is coming from, and provide infantry support in the middle where our flanks are held by heavy armor. I don't understand why it normally takes so long to reinforce a battle. Just keep the cohesion together so we're still an organized and disciplined unit and not wandering around wildly. May our lead finds their bellies.

And so he rode into his first battle as the commander of a division. With thousands of graduates he himself raised in the mountain and commando school, hardened in many battles, none of them green boys of the yester years. There was only one path home, and that path passed through Berlin.

Victory was declared at Vrnograc at 9am, with over 500 Turkish and almost 1,500 Axis casualties – a bloody way to end the month. And MAJGEN Diskoerekto fought his first engagement as the commander of 3 Mtn Div – learning much in the process [up to 92% experience towards Skill Level 1].

There's no better taste than the taste of victory, and there's no better learning than learning on the frontline. It would've taken a year to learn this much if I went to academy

Further south from there, the Minsk-Pripet Sector had seen solid Soviet gains over the course of January, with Soviet forces now approaching the key German held city.

I hope they can capture some German armor which is stuck in the marshes and can't escape in time.

Burma remained a slowly-unravelling disaster. As little seemed to stand between the Japanese and Calcutta, the claim by the British Bombay HQ theatre commander that they outnumbered the enemy and only needed a couple of fighter wings seemed just a tad optimistic!

Is the objective Istanbul there? It should be saving the subcontinent from the fascists (I should've just said saving their arses)

A little strangely, USLO MAJ Tyler Durden had not made an appearance at this battle. When asked by one of the staff at HQ 1st Army, he replied: “I’m here to observe Turkish soldiers fighting, not my own countrymen. I’ll look for a good fight with them.” He was heard muttering to himself as he wandered off. Some thought it sounded a little like an internal conversation, out loud …

Strange...

The Marines announced they had designated their own liaison officer to 1st Army HQ; he was yet to arrive and known so far only by his nom de guerre of ‘The Wraith’.

Even stranger?

Simply an innocent exchange, a message from an old friend showing natural concern and interest? Or something more than that? The point remained moot for now, as Perse continued to enjoy the evening, toasting the Glorious Union and celebrating with good Comintern friends and partners. Her next dance was with the Soviet Defence Attaché, and then with a mysterious aide of his who just introduced himself as “someone who likes to roam around a lot.”

Something's brewing, that's for sure!

Turkish military acquisition officers will review the export catalogues of the US and USSR assiduously – especially when it comes to the release of upgraded fighter designs for licencing.

Let's wait for all relevant 1943 techs to be researched before buying I say. By the way, theoretically, they can even research practical jet engine for airplanes this year, if they bothered to build rocket test sites a few years ago. Do you the existence of rocket test sites or how far they've gone about jet engines is something they'd share with their beloved allies?

Might have made more sense to plug the line with some Turkish infantry backed up with proper AT, and kept the Marines for spearheading an advance over rivers in a spot with a bit less of the armored stuff in the vicinity. Still, what's done is done, and it's not like we've got a lot of infantry divisions sitting in storage to plug the holes as it is.

Will be interesting to see if these can actually hold the line against Axis armor. Sure, the AT guns might help, but MIL are not known for being a stand-and-deliver sort of unit...much better usually at beating a retreat after they've harassed an enemy advance long enough for the real soldiers to set their feet on solid ground.

I think the new front line militia divs are for this purpose, hitting the armor a bit and delaying them until big boys come to save the day

We can always choose to release them as a puppet state after the war anyways...good way to effect disarmament as well while maintaining the relative independence of an Italian GNR (which might be necessary, as Turkey is going to have plenty enough garrison difficulties as it is, post-war!).

Wouldn't we want to directly puppet them so all their units stay intact? Am I missing something?

I was hoping to see the potential for an encirclement here, but it seems the German panzers have retreated in good order. Damn! We'll get 'em next time, I'm sure.

Still some marshes to go, who knows

Hmm. Ok, interesting. That would be a step in the direction of actually having a union of provinces though, because Italy is larger, wealthier, more populous and more industrialised than the rest of the union, including turkey. It would perhaps be better to split Italy up into smaller bits that actually get along with each other.

HoI2 had a much bigger selection of releasable countries to play with, HoI3 needs some modding to add smaller bits

"Well?" Calistar said as the door shut tight.

"She's still loyal," Kelebek said, "though the amount of interest foreign governments have in her suggests they still think she's the weak link into your structure."

"She probably is, at least outwardly. Our security chiefs have always been bigger leaks and nuisances between the pair of them, but diplomats can hardly walk up to them, can they?"

Kelebek shifted, and Calistar was surprised to see a lethargy to the paymaster utterly alien to him. Whatever Kelevek was, and by God had everyone wondered that every once in a while, it radiated vitality and energy so vividly it was like the shock of a furnace. Yet the current state of the creature was that of a corpse in motion.

"The heads of Turkish intelligence are political nuisances, not security liabilities. When it became clear your president preferred SITH out of his country, we took pains to secure and fortify interior services. They may sit in cabinet but they do not run their departments."

"And these mysterious new men?" Calistar said, passing over the obvious fact of who was actually running the Turkish secret services.

Kelebek was silent. Calistar fancied he could actually see the strain to stay upright in the future's posture. "They are indeed unexpected. Inconvenient even. Be careful with them."

He sighed and stood with some effort. "I do apologise but this body is utterly ravaged. They usually last longer than this but being around people so often requires more...bottling up than is strictly healthy. If the President asks for me, SITH will suffice for the next three days. Till then-"

He glanced downwards.

"I'm terribly sorry about the carpet."

With that a great fire burst from the chest of the man, and the flesh and the bone and the sinews of muscle boiled, dissolved and burst from the body in spectacularly horrific fashion. Within seconds, all that remained was a large burn circle within the rug and the wooden panel beneath, and a peculiar amount of static build up both electric and vibration.

Come to think of it, Perse is a perfect honeypot. Most secret services would go straight to her because she apparently is the weakest link, and keeping her under a watch would let us catch a lot of flies. However, as many people order the second least expensive wine in a menu, many services might go for the second weakest link in the structure.

I wonder who's that second weakest link

 

[roverS3]

It was hoped equipping them with an AT and AA brigade would help strengthen them against the two most dangerous forms of Axis attacks.

I would suggest not combining AT and AA within the same Division. With Militia, it doesn't make much of a difference as Militia are so poorly trained that they have no concept of combined arms warfare, but if you were to retrain and rearm the Militia (even to Garrisons), you would find that AA + AT lacks the versatility of other Support unit combinations, this is because neither AA nor AT units can provide significant and accurate indirect fire support, so you're limited to direct fire support. Your units will probably get more out of AA + Art or AT + Art.

A new licence was purchased for the quicker SP rocket artillery to eventually use with 2 Armd Div (and any future light armoured division Turkey may create). Two licences were purchased, but the units would be built serially.

Now this, this goes entirely against the propaganda we've built up around 'Stalin's organs', it seems US mobile Rocket Artillery is better than Katyusha's... What a disgrace!

“Doe. John Doe.

And I thought the GRU was bad at fake names... I stand corrected, the OSS is definitely worse. Also, I'm not convinced that conversation was entirely innocent. I listened in and "it's always springtime" is definitely some kind of code. Kelebek is right, Perse is the Turkish Security apparatus weak link, perceived or real, she must remain under close watch.

And the Soviet Attaché had a rather unsettling character with him. I had a dance, but can’t even recall his face – he gave no name, but I did notice he seemed to be missing the top of his left ‘pinkie’ finger. He said little, but gave me the vapours, and I don’t scare too easily.”

I've been known to have that effect on people. I like to say anonymous and faceless, but sometimes, one needs to have some fun. Perse is such a delightful dancer, and she hid her fear rather well. I'm impressed.

“Well Tommy, ya see, I got this stone in my shoe …”

“Waddya mean I’m funny?”

I love the creativity of Sith in dealing with their foes. You make the GRU look almost boring with it's standardised wet-work teams, and operating procedures for assassinations and interrogations.

The two met that evening; the dashing Sforzini and the attractive but hard S.I.T.H. agent.

As long as the mission happens. This made me fondly recall an affair with a Greek Communist beauty in my younger years, when I was still a junior operative. I never let it interfere with the mission, it's a precarious balance, but it can be a lot of fun. I hope Cennet enjoys herself as there ins't much opportunity for real personal connection in our line of work.

the claim by the British Bombay HQ theatre commander that they outnumbered the enemy and only needed a couple of fighter wings seemed just a tad optimistic!

How much opium does he smoke along with his tea is the question that's on my mind here. I also question his request for fighters, with Air bases so few and far between, those wouldn't have much impact on the overall picture. Much better to get some Tactical Bombers to strike the enemy on the ground, outside of his own fighter cover.

The Germans are over-extending themselves towards the North. Sure, taking Leningrad was a huge boost to their morale etc, but moving into Karelia seems rather stupid. They're going to have to weaken their forces in the Leningrad area itself, or pull units from elsewhere to hold the line, all that to get some forests with atrocious infrastructure, freezing winters, and few resources. I'd say, let them, and focus our forces north of the Pripyat in a thrust to the Baltic. If we reach the Baltic again, be it in Leningrad, or slightly south of it, we cut off the head of the snake. Of course, it remains to be seen whether STAVKA will seize this opportunity.

The Far Eastern front is looking good.

he Marines announced they had designated their own liaison officer to 1st Army HQ; he was yet to arrive and known so far only by his nom de guerre of ‘The Wraith’.

This really is quite strange. Any information on 'The Wraith's real name and rank? I guess we'll all find out when he arrives at 1st Army HQ.

US Embassy parties have lost none of their shine, providing some welcome distraction from the horrors and losses of the war.

Let's not forget to enjoy our life a little, even in these trying times,

SkitalecS3

 

[nuclearslurpee]

Wouldn't we want to directly puppet them so all their units stay intact? Am I missing something?

Well, in game terms, yes of course. However, in role-playing terms (and since we're already stuck annexing them), it can make sense to disarm the Italians first, then later release them as an "independent" state for "good behavior" (or more like, a lack of garrisons to force such good behavior!).

HoI2 had a much bigger selection of releasable countries to play with, HoI3 needs some modding to add smaller bits

HPP offers a fairly good selection of releasable nations...I think there's six or seven Balkan nations for example that one can split out from Yugoslavia (did that once as Italy, not that they were terribly helpful and I would have preferred the IC anyways). I think they borrowed those from an older map mod that used to be popular...

And then there's BICE which always does its own thing. Other mods besides but I'm not familiar with most of them as few still update anymore.

 

[diskoerekto]

Well, in game terms, yes of course. However, in role-playing terms (and since we're already stuck annexing them), it can make sense to disarm the Italians first, then later release them as an "independent" state for "good behavior" (or more like, a lack of garrisons to force such good behavior!).

Oh ok, I was thinking purely in game terms

 

[stnylan]

I have faith in Perse

All in all the news is not disheartening. I don't doubt the combination of weather and poor infrastructure is slowly the Axis barbarians greatly in the Ladoga sector. So long as Finland is not tempted I cannot see much difficulty there.

 

[Wraith11B]

Tyler Durden continued to conspicuously avoid visiting any of the US Marine units now deployed forward along the Sava River, despite them all having recently been involved in combat. The Marines announced they had designated their own liaison officer to 1st Army HQ; he was yet to arrive and known so far only by his nom de guerre of ‘The Wraith’.

Oooh, interesting to see that there's a new member of the cast coming in! Wonder what he's bringing along with him. Seems like he's a bit pompous by calling himself THE Wraith, as if he's the only one. Feel like Kelebek is going to be suitably suspicious for such a odd callsign.

Not like the Turks need to be advised much about the utility of America's Attack Dogs, they know about putting people best used to close combat in the most decisive sectors as ably demonstrated by BG Diskoerekto's recent promotion. I wonder if Chesty Puller is with those Marines!

Turkish military acquisition officers will review the export catalogues of the US and USSR assiduously – especially when it comes to the release of upgraded fighter designs for licencing. The main strategic concern at the moment is the possibility of Finnish entry into the war in support of the Germans. That could potentially supercharge their currently limited breakthrough in the north and plunge the whole Russian front into confusion and panic, undermining the hard-won gains of recent months. Inönü hoped privately that he wouldn't need to order the cobwebs brushed out of the Calistar and Iskandar Line fortifications later in the year!

While I doubt that the collapse would be that rapid, I'm sure that there would be enough for a fighting withdrawal. More American support would have to be demanded at that point for employment in opening a third front, aside from the Patriotic and Glorious Fronts (Soviet and Turkish, respectively). It would not be out of the realm of reason to perhaps devote at least a modicum of effort to improving some defensive works to enhance those areas best suited to forcing delays on an enemy.

 

[diskoerekto]

Oooh, interesting to see that there's a new member of the cast coming in! Wonder what he's bringing along with him. Seems like he's a bit pompous by calling himself THE Wraith, as if he's the only one. Feel like Kelebek is going to be suitably suspicious for such a odd callsign.

By the way, I'm guessing we'll need a Turkish translation of wraith as well soon To be precise, what is the difference between a ghost and a wraith?

Not like the Turks need to be advised much about the utility of America's Attack Dogs, they know about putting people best used to close combat in the most decisive sectors as ably demonstrated by BG Diskoerekto's recent promotion. I wonder if Chesty Puller is with those Marines!

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

I love the creativity of Sith in dealing with their foes. You make the GRU look almost boring with it's standardised wet-work teams, and operating procedures for assassinations and interrogations.

When you have an intelligence staff complete with telepaths, insta-kill assassins and teleporting demons, you tend to have fun with your targets rather than just touching them and sending them to Mars.

I have faith in Perse

I love how Kelebek cleared her and yet everyone is piling on this suspicion and conspiracy for all it's worth. I'm fairly sure we are deliberately using her as a honeypot at this point chaps, so she's not to be concerned with too much. Her targets are.

However, it should be noted she is quickly becoming too important to simply have killed if she is turned somehow. Darling of the British, Turkish and American press is only good news I find you have a firm handle on her. We do for now but have to be savvy with these potential lovers and spies.

Oooh, interesting to see that there's a new member of the cast coming in! Wonder what he's bringing along with him. Seems like he's a bit pompous by calling himself THE Wraith, as if he's the only one. Feel like Kelebek is going to be suitably suspicious for such a odd callsign.

I'm mostly suspicious because he clearly wanted to call himself the Phantom and found the costume too silly. Such a man is not to be trusted, if only for his lack of fun. The Turkish word is I believe the same as well, fantom, so would be amusing. Ah well.

By the way, I'm guessing we'll need a Turkish translation of wraith as well soon To be precise, what is the difference between a ghost and a wraith?

hayalet?

The difference between ghost and wraith usually depends on what fictional universe you're in, as both vary wildly in appearance, powers, moral alignment and such. In reality however the words are interchangeable so presumably the Turkish word for ghost is fine.

Iblis perhaps could be interesting from SITH perspective (it'll probably annoy them anyway) even though it's no time a direct translation. If someone has a sense of humour in the department, you could always call him ruh.

 

[Wraith11B]

By the way, I'm guessing we'll need a Turkish translation of wraith as well soon To be precise, what is the difference between a ghost and a wraith?

Well, the only reason I picked "Wraith" back in the day was my absolute love of the Rogue/Wraith squadron books... "Ghost" doesn't necessarily have the "hostile" connotation that a "Wraith" does, in that when one might use the term, they want a scary SOB lurking amongst the shadows, whereas a ghost is just a spectral projection.

I'm mostly suspicious because he clearly wanted to call himself the Phantom and found the costume too silly. Such a man is not to be trusted, if only for his lack of fun. The Turkish word is I believe the same as well, fantom, so would be amusing. Ah well.

hayalet?

The difference between ghost and wraith usually depends on what fictional universe you're in, as both vary wildly in appearance, powers, moral alignment and such. In reality however the words are interchangeable so presumably the Turkish word for ghost is fine.

Iblis perhaps could be interesting from SITH perspective (it'll probably annoy them anyway) even though it's no time a direct translation. If someone has a sense of humour in the department, you could always call him ruh.

Well, the second name would have been Spirit, along these lines:

Get me a tie, and it better be RED! It also works with your ruh... and doubly so with the Marine Corps "RAH"...

 

[Bullfilter]

Just a quick response on the ‘Wraith’ thing: I’d been seeking a way to have another certain commentavatAAR in the story and the arrival of the marines at the front gave me the opportunity. I won’t be translating his nickname for now (that’s all it is - he will have a name, which I’ve already chosen ) as he’s an English-speaker, of course.

There were enough secret agents swanning around, so this character will be a regular soldier (or gyrene anyway ). Something of a Ranger-type background, hence the nickname. He may also be a little curious about MAJ Durden’s increasingly erratic behaviour ...

 

[Wraith11B]

Might I suggest then, the Marine Raiders? Or is he going to be US Army and thus a "proper" Ranger?

 

[Bullfilter]

Might I suggest then, the Marine Raiders? Or is he going to be US Army and thus a "proper" Ranger?

Something of a Ranger-type background

Thought there would probably be something specific for the Marines, so definitely a Raider per your very helpful refs.

worked with the Marines a bit back in my Army days - great guys, always got on well, the nature of our infantry (smaller scale, more expeditionary, reliance on sub- unit initiative etc) has some parallels with the Marines. Ethos seemed quite similar.

 

[diskoerekto]

hayalet?

The difference between ghost and wraith usually depends on what fictional universe you're in, as both vary wildly in appearance, powers, moral alignment and such. In reality however the words are interchangeable so presumably the Turkish word for ghost is fine.

Iblis perhaps could be interesting from SITH perspective (it'll probably annoy them anyway) even though it's no time a direct translation. If someone has a sense of humour in the department, you could always call him ruh.

Hayalet is ghost as in a ghost in a haunted house whereas Ruh is soul/spirit of living persons but also the ghosts of the deceased which for example one can summon to talk. On the other hand, for example, Hamlet's father is sometimes referred to as a ruh and sometimes a hayalet (maybe mostly hayalet). Then there's gulyabani, which is a compound word with Arabic gul (literally ghoul) and Persian yabani (of wilderness) but a gulyabani can still haunt in urban areas.

İblis is a transliteration if diablus, which is devil in English, and the Turkish version of it is Albız. and if we're going that way there's also Cin (djinn, deamons of devil) and İfrit (efreet).

Well, the only reason I picked "Wraith" back in the day was my absolute love of the Rogue/Wraith squadron books... "Ghost" doesn't necessarily have the "hostile" connotation that a "Wraith" does, in that when one might use the term, they want a scary SOB lurking amongst the shadows, whereas a ghost is just a spectral projection.

So this eliminates Ruh, and to a certain extent Hayalet but I'd still keep that in the cards. Gulyabani/İblis/Cin/Albız/İfrit are all more hostile though.

Just a quick response on the ‘Wraith’ thing: I’d been seeking a way to have another certain commentavatAAR in the story and the arrival of the marines at the front gave me the opportunity. I won’t be translating his nickname for now (that’s all it is - he will have a name, which I’ve already chosen ) as he’s an English-speaker, or course.

I went with the translations because I thought once he becomes known in Turkish speaking circles they'll try to find one

 

[Bullfilter]

Hayalet is ghost as in a ghost in a haunted house whereas Ruh is soul/spirit of living persons but also the ghosts of the deceased which for example one can summon to talk. On the other hand, for example, Hamlet's father is sometimes referred to as a ruh and sometimes a hayalet (maybe mostly hayalet). Then there's gulyabani, which is a compound word with Arabic gul (literally ghoul) and Persian yabani (of wilderness) but a gulyabani can still haunt in urban areas.

İblis is a transliteration if diablus, which is devil in English, and the Turkish version of it is Albız. and if we're going that way there's also Cin (djinn, deamons of devil) and İfrit (efreet).


So this eliminates Ruh, and to a certain extent Hayalet but I'd still keep that in the cards. Gulyabani/İblis/Cin/Albız/İfrit are all more hostile though.


I went with the translations because I thought once he becomes known in Turkish speaking circles they'll try to find one

Interesting. I did think of the last point, they may end up calling him one of those, but he won’t be calling himself that. Unlike Kelebek, he’s working for the USMC rather than SITH!

 

[Wraith11B]

Though, let's be absolutely clear, theres a bit of SITH ethos in the green weenie, but that's according to Lance corporals who can't reach cutting scores to promote because they're always wicked high.

 

[nuclearslurpee]

To be precise, what is the difference between a ghost and a wraith?

There's not a clearly-defined difference, and as others mentioned it largely depends on which fictional universe you're talking about. However, in general the term "ghost" tends to be neutral in most contexts I'm familiar with, while "wraiths" are usually considered to be more ominous or outright evil. Often wraiths have some demonic aspects to them as well, whereas ghosts usually are considered to simply be lost souls wandering between two worlds...

Well, the only reason I picked "Wraith" back in the day was my absolute love of the Rogue/Wraith squadron books...

Man after my own heart here.

Just a quick response on the ‘Wraith’ thing: I’d been seeking a way to have another certain commentavatAAR in the story and the arrival of the marines at the front gave me the opportunity. I won’t be translating his nickname for now (that’s all it is - he will have a name, which I’ve already chosen ) as he’s an English-speaker, of course.

Good to know and look forwards to...hadn't realized the connection right away.

worked with the Marines a bit back in my Army days - great guys, always got on well, the nature of our infantry (smaller scale, more expeditionary, reliance on sub- unit initiative etc) has some parallels with the Marines. Ethos seemed quite similar.

Good taste in crayons?

 

[Bullfilter]

Good taste in crayons?

No, all very sharp chinagraph pencils for the map marking (actually we did have permanent markers by then, but why ruin a ye olde time story).

 

[Bullfilter]

Might have made more sense to plug the line with some Turkish infantry backed up with proper AT, and kept the Marines for spearheading an advance over rivers in a spot with a bit less of the armored stuff in the vicinity. Still, what's done is done, and it's not like we've got a lot of infantry divisions sitting in storage to plug the holes as it is.

Didn't want to shuffle too many units around, as they are generally pretty thin (as you noted), dismantling their entrenchments and giving the Axis more attacking opportunities. Also, I needed something there pretty quickly. But mainly, that is the designated break-through area anyway, and I wanted the marines in place there for later. The armour would all be concentrated there too, eventually, so that would help defend against the Axis armour ... in due course, but the mud slowed everything down. That, and I didn't realise how abysmal the US marines' AT would be! I'll still want them there for the eventual offensive (if that still goes ahead where and how it was planned, we shall see when the time comes).

We can always choose to release them as a puppet state after the war anyways...good way to effect disarmament as well while maintaining the relative independence of an Italian GNR (which might be necessary, as Turkey is going to have plenty enough garrison difficulties as it is, post-war!).

True, but the main advantage is if the initial puppeting is done as a war goal, they keep their surviving units in the field ... which can be pretty handy, especially having those Italian aircraft on our side. Ah well - its conquest and the UGNR for them, if we ever get there.

Will be interesting to see if these can actually hold the line against Axis armor. Sure, the AT guns might help, but MIL are not known for being a stand-and-deliver sort of unit...much better usually at beating a retreat after they've harassed an enemy advance long enough for the real soldiers to set their feet on solid ground.

The intended use is as a top up for a 'regular' division, rather than having to use two regular divisions to hold most of the line. That, or just light screening/security roles, so the militia had a bit more mobility than garrison troops. Will see how they go ... just an experiment really, for holding an extended line 'on the cheap'.

magine how embarrassing it must be for a German "Field Marshall" (hard to call that promotion legit under the circumstances, though!) to surrender to a mere lieutenant. I can imagine the conversation in the Soviet command tent...

ROKOSSOVSKY: "Someone ought to go over there and take their surrender."
VATUTIN: sips vodka "Well, I don't want to do it, it's damn cold out there." passes vodka
ROKOSSOVSKY: "Well, I don't want to do it either." glug glug
VATUTIN: "Oi, you there, Lieutenant! What's your name?"
ILCHENKO: "Sir, Lieutenant Il-"
VATUTIN: "Yeah, I don't care, go over there and make that German guy sign these papers." glug glug
ILCHENKO: "...blyat!"

I haven't read them, but I think I saw there were accounts/interviews done with Ilchenko post-war. Must have a glance some time.

I was hoping to see the potential for an encirclement here, but it seems the German panzers have retreated in good order. Damn! We'll get 'em next time, I'm sure.

It's been a tough and fairly slow moving front since the start, neither side really getting into mid gear, let alone top. Yet, anyway - I hope the Soviet Steamroller end up having a gfew more forward than reverse gears.

Took them long enough to figure out how to use the damn subs properly...not entirely unlike OTL, as US subs were quite accidentally successful at convoy raiding owing to the fact that the IJN somehow completely forgot that ASW tech was a thing.

At least it is evidence of a little activity happening in the Pacific.

 

[Bullfilter]

Magnificent bastard.

A Wehraboo's wet dream, I'm sure! But I don't think it's fair they get to escape - I had him surrounded and his division captured! He should be featuring, von Paulus style, in Turkish propaganda newsreels!

Not sure whether this translates to TTL. Maybe its happening around this time or a little earlier, as the amount of surrenders, encriclments and body bags begin to rise exponentially...

Not directly, perhaps, and certainly not on that scale, but there have been a few pockets sealed off in recent times that hint at it, anyway.

Hmm. Ok, interesting. That would be a step in the direction of actually having a union of provinces though, because Italy is larger, wealthier, more populous and more industrialised than the rest of the union, including turkey. It would perhaps be better to split Italy up into smaller bits that actually get along with each other.

In-universe, yes, just like I (narratively) split Former Yugoslavia up into its roughly latter-day analogous constituent parts as separate GNRs within the Glorious Union. A nominal way to help deal with nationalist/separatist feelings while keeping them under Turkish suzerainty. Mainly though, it was just modelled on the USSR system, given where we were heading by that time.

It's been a long war but such a long way for turkey.

Yes, four years just since the UGNR was proclaimed. More than seven now since the start of the whole story. It seems almost that long in real time, too!

"Well?" Calistar said as the door shut tight.

"She's still loyal," Kelebek said, "though the amount of interest foreign governments have in her suggests they still think she's the weak link into your structure."

"She probably is, at least outwardly. Our security chiefs have always been bigger leaks and nuisances between the pair of them, but diplomats can hardly walk up to them, can they?"

Kelebek shifted, and Calistar was surprised to see a lethargy to the paymaster utterly alien to him. Whatever Kelevek was, and by God had everyone wondered that every once in a while, it radiated vitality and energy so vividly it was like the shock of a furnace. Yet the current state of the creature was that of a corpse in motion.

"The heads of Turkish intelligence are political nuisances, not security liabilities. When it became clear your president preferred SITH out of his country, we took pains to secure and fortify interior services. They may sit in cabinet but they do not run their departments."

"And these mysterious new men?" Calistar said, passing over the obvious fact of who was actually running the Turkish secret services.

Kelebek was silent. Calistar fancied he could actually see the strain to stay upright in the future's posture. "They are indeed unexpected. Inconvenient even. Be careful with them."

He sighed and stood with some effort. "I do apologise but this body is utterly ravaged. They usually last longer than this but being around people so often requires more...bottling up than is strictly healthy. If the President asks for me, SITH will suffice for the next three days. Till then-"

He glanced downwards.

"I'm terribly sorry about the carpet."

With that a great fire burst from the chest of the man, and the flesh and the bone and the sinews of muscle boiled, dissolved and burst from the body in spectacularly horrific fashion. Within seconds, all that remained was a large burn circle within the rug and the wooden panel beneath, and a peculiar amount of static build up both electric and vibration.

Perse has always walked a very narrow tightrope, from the start. She is a survivor though, with so long now spent as an increasingly integral part of the Turkish effort. They couldn't do without her now, could they?

I do hope the real-life Butterfly can also regenerate, giving some more strength to his in-universe avatar Kelebek (which for those readers who have come later or can no longer remember, is just Turkish for 'butterfly': such an innocuous and indeed wholesome word, which has come to mean something far more sinister in this universe).

Get and stay well, my friend.

 

[Bullfilter]

Great episode with some missed secret war stuff and a lot of characters. I enjoyed it!

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. It was nice having the 'room' and in-game events (which I try to use to keep it loosely tied to the events) to go into theb Secret war a little bit more in January.

The same day as Red Army was founded by Trotsky!

Well, there you go!

Very nice touch about CLN. By the way, if in the future you need more characters for underground communist resistance from The Glorious Union, you can use some Greek resistance leaders as well. In my headcanon in this alternate timeline with no Greek resistance against Nazis or civil war, they'll instead be spreading the revolution.

That's a chance too, though I'll try to find Italian figures where I can.

Good thing is, with minimal research we might be able to build both (a bit inferior in some aspects, but still) of them at home as well

Maybe, but I doubt I'll need many of them and can get good ones via licence, so I'll probably keep the research for key techs and/or ones where I already have a lot of home-grown units that will be improved with research.

Boys! We'll just march to where all this noise is coming from, and provide infantry support in the middle where our flanks are held by heavy armor. I don't understand why it normally takes so long to reinforce a battle. Just keep the cohesion together so we're still an organized and disciplined unit and not wandering around wildly. May our lead finds their bellies.

And so he rode into his first battle as the commander of a division. With thousands of graduates he himself raised in the mountain and commando school, hardened in many battles, none of them green boys of the yester years. There was only one path home, and that path passed through Berlin.

Yee-hah! Or Vur Ha, anyway.

There's no better taste than the taste of victory, and there's no better learning than learning on the frontline. It would've taken a year to learn this much if I went to academy

Quite. On the learning curve now.

I hope they can capture some German armor which is stuck in the marshes and can't escape in time.

A hope, but not an expectation.

Is the objective Istanbul there? It should be saving the subcontinent from the fascists (I should've just said saving their arses)

I despair of them in this game. On land anyway, they have been almost unerringly useless and the times they have done well (such as when they almost conquered Libya) they threw it away by failing to commit a couple of extra divisions.

Strange...

Even stranger?

Oh, Tyler's a strange fellow, that's for sure. As for 'The Wraith' ... he may be a little more grounded than poor Durden is proving.

Something's brewing, that's for sure!

Or is it just the usual official paranoia at play? In this case, it was Calistar who sent Perse to the meeting to see if some info about their 'friendly partners' might be discovered - which they would be far less likely to blab to him. Perse? Who knows her inner thoughts about all of this ... I'm not sure even I do

Let's wait for all relevant 1943 techs to be researched before buying I say. By the way, theoretically, they can even research practical jet engine for airplanes this year, if they bothered to build rocket test sites a few years ago. Do you the existence of rocket test sites or how far they've gone about jet engines is something they'd share with their beloved allies?

That's the plan. I would ideally have had the next fighters in production for a while now, but am unwilling to spend on aircraft that are proving below the required standard (ie the Reggio Aeronautica, not even the Luftwaffe).

I think the new front line militia divs are for this purpose, hitting the armor a bit and delaying them until big boys come to save the day

Per above reply, they are really just designed to pair up with a conventional division, perhaps (in quieter sectors) just one of the weaker Soviet EFs, to guard defensive sectors and release front-line Turkish 'pentropic divisions' for offensive work.

Wouldn't we want to directly puppet them so all their units stay intact? Am I missing something?

Per above, in retrospect perhaps, but I also wanted the occupied productive and leadership capacity under direct Turkish control when that was set. And to create a truly imperial presence in the Med, also allowing new units to be forward deployed there in the future (when France and Spain might be on the Comintern agenda). Too late now.

Still some marshes to go, who knows

Can hope.

HoI2 had a much bigger selection of releasable countries to play with, HoI3 needs some modding to add smaller bits

I agree with those who say it would be nice if it had been properly updated and tidied up for a while longer, before they went to HOI4. Even better if they'd taken on community advice and assistance, not just with programming but with tidying up things like Cabinet members, leaders, etc. They would have had plenty of 'free' reasearchers out there willing to assist.

Come to think of it, Perse is a perfect honeypot. Most secret services would go straight to her because she apparently is the weakest link, and keeping her under a watch would let us catch a lot of flies. However, as many people order the second least expensive wine in a menu, many services might go for the second weakest link in the structure.

I wonder who's that second weakest link

Very much so. And being English (and attractive) she will prove far more disarming and effective with both the American Comintern partners and the British as well (though they are more distant, and MI6 may not trust her either ...)