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In line with forum rules, I'd like to request permission for a kind of limited interactivity on my Talking Turkey AAR. The war is about to end after five-plus long real-time years. To finish it off with a chance for direct involvement by the commentAARs (many long-standing), I'd like to run a Versailles-like 'Peace Conference' using a succession of votes for various outcomes in a series of tranches, resolving groups of issues in succession.
My idea is to allow participants to role-play countries I would assign/agree with them. I would act as moderator of the process. Voters could both make public comment etc on the thread, but also negotiate via PM between each other if they wish. Votes would be by 'secret ballot' (PM) to me, due by a deadline I will set for each one. The results would then be announced 'publicly' on the thread and the timer started on the next one until the issues are all dealt with. It will therefore be of limited 'public' scope and duration, but I wanted to make sure I had Moderator approval anyway.
If you needed any more detail on how the process would run, I can provide it, but hoped this would be sufficient. I'd have done this via PM to you, but it seems that isn't possible, so have tagged you here instead.
In line with forum rules, I'd like to request permission for a kind of limited interactivity on my Talking Turkey AAR. The war is about to end after five-plus long real-time years. To finish it off with a chance for direct involvement by the commentAARs (many long-standing), I'd like to run a Versailles-like 'Peace Conference' using a succession of votes for various outcomes in a series of tranches, resolving groups of issues in succession.
My idea is to allow participants to role-play countries I would assign/agree with them. I would act as moderator of the process. Voters could both make public comment etc on the thread, but also negotiate via PM between each other if they wish. Votes would be by 'secret ballot' (PM) to me, due by a deadline I will set for each one. The results would then be announced 'publicly' on the thread and the timer started on the next one until the issues are all dealt with. It will therefore be of limited 'public' scope and duration, but I wanted to make sure I had Moderator approval anyway.
If you needed any more detail on how the process would run, I can provide it, but hoped this would be sufficient. I'd have done this via PM to you, but it seems that isn't possible, so have tagged you here instead.
Mr Capiatlist is withdrawn from forum life as of this moment (for various reasons) so you may want to find another mod...
Incidentally, in regards to the UK, I suspect the UK itself is fine, probably didn't even see much rationing given how the axis navies were obliterated. Its rhe empire that's paid the price in this war.
The UK is probably not war damaged at all, not bankrupt (because they didn't bother to fight) and by itself, in pretty good shape. The empire however has been ruined, and all the dominions and colonies probably want out ASAP because their mother country sold them down the river and didn't even bother defending the white dominons.
I doubt the Commonwealth will be happening in this time line...
Thanks TBC, got onto Qorten off line and he has granted permission for an interactive phase of the AAR to cover the proposed Peace Conference. But first, we still have a campaign to finish in Spain …
By the end of September 1944, Francisco Franco’s Spanish Nationalists were rapidly being overrun by Turkish, Soviet and American forces as a last naval landing was being contemplated for the Spanish north-west. In the east, the grinding war against Japan by the Comintern and Allies continues in eastern India, Siberia, Mongolia, Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific.
The Turkish secret police are in Los Angeles, trying with FBI support to track down ‘rogue’ S.I.T.H. hitman the Duke of Midnight, who the Turks are blaming for the death of B.J. Guildenstern. Bud White has been revealed to Ed Exley, now Chief of Detectives in the LAPD, to be the aforementioned Duke of Midnight.
Bud is holed up with Lynn Bracken in her home town of Bisbee, Arizona: should Ed turn Bud in to the Turkish-FBI task force? Should he warn Bud? Or warn Lynn to get away from him, let the FBI reel him in, then walk in to ‘pick up the pieces’? On orders from Ankara, ‘Fat Pete’ Cumali – a friend and associate of Cennet – is also trying to discover the whereabouts of the elusive Perse. Who it has been conclusively proven is not the American actress Veronica Lake, who played Perse in a recent Hollywood spy movie.
---xxx---
1 Oct 44
Just before midnight, after checking prompted by British Naval LO Captain S. Psmith RN, it was discovered that the planning tables being used by Turkish Supreme HQ for the proposed invasion of the northern Spanish coast were in error. The ports of either Vigo or Ferrol could be reached by the entire fleet, even the oldest and shortest-ranged destroyers (1,500km). An invasion was soon being planned.
Silly me! The only problem was when the fleet had rebased into Cadiz, I’d forgotten the division it was carrying had been dropped off. So when I then tried to right-click on a target from there, the invasion mission was not popping up <facepalms>
The fleet was soon sailing from Cadiz, with a single infantry division aboard. Their plan was to make for Capre Oregal land at the port of Ferrol. Once their supply source had been secured, they would make a dash for La Coruña, in the hope it would be undefended.
With some older ships detached for repairs, half the battle fleet was of pre-GW1 ships, the other half all newer US licensed vessels built in Turkey during the war, the most formidable of these being the TCG Reşadiye [didn't get around to renaming in-game].
In the Far East, extensive supply problems in the centre of the front were indeed, as many had speculated, now causing a slow-down of Comintern progress, even as many of the divisions sent from the West arrived to reinforce.
As the invasion fleet was still heading out of Cadiz early in the morning, a report came from Tyler Durden’s irregulars: a Spanish naval task force was in port at Malaga, where the US 1 Mar Div was approaching slowly, through difficult terrain, from the west.
Cennet remained in Sevilla, her war seemingly coming to a gradual close, while she waited for word about the whereabouts of the treasonous Perse. And whether S.I.T.H. still even wanted her terminated, even as Pete Cumali tried to sniff out clues in Hollywood about both Perse, while he waited for Ed Exley and the FBI to provide information on the whereabouts of Wendell (aka ‘Bud’, aka ‘the Duke of Midnight’) White.
GRU Agent SkitalecS3 had returned to the side of President Inönü as the war in Europe drew to its close. Professor Nukeleru Slorepee was with CAPT Psmith in Cadiz, having just seen off the invasion fleet after consulting with Admiral Üngen. And MAJ Kenny ‘Wraith’ Loggins was once more venturing into the danger zone, accompanying COL ‘Chesty’ Puller as the US 1st Marines closed in on Malaga. No one knew where the Dark Lord Kelebek was at this time. Which everyone was happy about. But there were rumours of a special mission assigned by Inönü himself.
The battle of Vélez-Rubio, which had begun as a clearing operation on 28 September, ended at 4pm that afternoon. It would turn out to be the last major land battle of the war in Europe, though a few minor skirmishes would occur in coming days. Elsewhere, Turkey was now avoiding unnecessary fighting as it raced to secure the last few key cities that would force Spain to surrender.
Air Damage Report. The last two raids of the campaign, on Vélez-Rubio, killed another 261 Spanish troops, for a total of 1,157 since 28 September.
---xxx---
Diplomatic Developments
That night, with the end of the War in Europe deemed imminent, top secret messages containing invitations to a peace conference were sent out in simultaneous joint communiqués from Moscow, Washington DC, Istanbul and London to selected Comintern and Allied nations. They were told to ready high powered delegations to meet at a place and time to be specified later, but that should be placed on the highest readiness to move.
One such message was passed to a Mr Camille Georgé, who had been the head of the Swiss Legation in Tokyo (the Mission did not have full Ambassadorial status) since 15 February 1940. He was soon on his way to deliver the message to the Japanese Foreign Minister, Hirota Koki – known in diplomatic circles as a ‘Great Compromiser’. It would soon be passed to the Japanese Prime Minister Okada Keisuke (who Comintern and Allied intelligence estimates described as a ‘Happy Amateur’).
Top: Minister Gorgé’s diplomatic credentials. Bottom: Camille Gorgé, his wife Rosine, and the staff of the Swiss Legation in Tokyo, Japan, 1944.
---xxx---
2 Oct 44
The last serious land battle in Spain may have been over, but at sea and in the air, men on both sides still perished during these final days. As the invasion fleet approached Spanish air space near the northern Portuguese border, they came under attack by escorted Spanish naval bombers.
The only fighters with the range to cover the fleet on the Coast of Porto were the Madrid-based M/R fighters then providing escort to 1 BG, whose missions in the south were now over. 4 and 5 AFs were detached to form 5 AG and sent to provide protection for the fleet. But the allocation of a new commander (MAJGEN Yucal) had significantly reduced their organisation, though not their strength. [Note: I missed a trick there, should have detached the bombers rather than the fighters and left their existing commander in charge. But no scum-saving, so bad luck for 5 AG].
By the time 5 AG was able to get in the air and heading to the fleet, the ships had made it north to the Coast of Galicia, having only taken light damage in the night raid. And they ran into and engaged three Spanish INT wings over Vigo – probably flying out of La Coruña and commanded by none other than the ubiquitous Franco! [Comment: It’s like having Kim Jong-Un appearing everywhere ‘in command’ of things! Next thing, Franco will have 20 claimed kills, jump off his plane and supposedly club a hole-in-one at the airfield’s gold course.]
In the exchange early that morning, little damage was done to either side, though organisation was depleted on both sides.
As 5 AG was heading out later that morning on another interception mission in the general sea zone the fleet was navigating through, they were ambushed by Franco again, this time over Zamora. And this time the Turkish flyers came off much the worse for wear, suffering heavy damage and becoming completely disorganised. They were forced to discontinue their mission, leaving the fleet without any air cover for the rest of their mission. This would prove to be the last aerial engagement of the war.
The fleet anchored off Ferrol at midday and began unloading the troops of 16 Inf Div. Cape Oregal was well out of range of the nearest fighters, the La-7 interceptors of 3 AG in Madrid (who only had a range of 320km). It would be a tense time for the Turkish sailors as they readied themselves for an attack by either sea or air. But none would come for the rest of that day.
OTL Events: Europe. The Warsaw Uprising was extinguished by the Germans after a two month battle. The Battle of Aachen began between American and German forces in and around Aachen, Germany and the Battle of the Scheldt began in northern Belgium and the south-western Netherlands.
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3 Oct 44
In the Arabian GNR, the locals were restive, with Saudi nationalists staging a rising in Hanidh early on 3 October.
A skirmish broke out early that morning, as 9 Inf Div ran into Spanish troops withdrawing through Soria. Apart from the odds being very poor, needless deaths of both Turkish soldiers and their Spanish opponents were now being actively avoided where possible and an encirclement of these enemy divisions would only be closed if it could be done bloodlessly, trapping rather than destroying them. The encounter was ended immediately as Comintern forces halted in Burgos [1 VP] and pushed on elsewhere to Valladolid and Bilbao, which both appeared to be undefended.
The Spanish Air Force did not launch a naval strike on the invasion fleet until the troops of 16 Inf Div were nearly ashore. The raid started in darkness and poor weather, which hampered the bombers somewhat at first, though by 9am some of the destroyers and transport were beginning to take damage and hits to organisation.
Another raid hit at midday, with attrition felt across the fleet, with the transports once again taking the heaviest damage. But just an hour later, 16 Inf Div was ashore, having encountered no opposition on the ground. They did discover a Spanish force of four undamaged DD and four TP flotillas in port at Ferrol, however, even as they began their march on La Coruña, which also seemed to be unoccupied.
As the events around the invasion played out, 3 Cav Div secured Valladolid, bringing Spain closer to surrender and forcing their temporary capital to relocate yet again, this time to La Coruña, even as Turkish troops began to march on it.
With the latest naval strike over, some damaged ships and the troops safely ashore, the Turkish fleet did not wait for a sortie by the Spanish ships trapped in Ferrol. They began sailing from Cape Oregal to the Basque Coast at 4pm, when just two hours later Bilbao (with a large port available) fell to 3 Inf Div.
---xxx---
4 Oct 44
Another member of the Japanese spy ring in Turkey was apprehended in Ankara at midnight. He had been trying to infiltrate the Foreign Ministry building. Under interrogation aboard the Midnight Express, it was revealed he had been attempting to find out more information about the diplomatic manoeuvrings that were already in motion: the Japanese mission in Switzerland had apparently begun conducting preliminary discussions with representatives of the ‘Big Four’ Anti-Fascist Coalition partners since late on the night of 1 October.
But the war in Spain was not yet over: it was becoming increasingly clear they would not surrender until every major city had been occupied. At 2am, the Turkish fleet had made its way to the Southern Bay of Biscay, where they encountered a small force of Spanish ships (one destroyer flotilla escorting two transport flotillas) that had apparently evacuated from Bilbao the day before. Even though it had not been actively sought by either side, a sea battle soon raged.
Another Spanish transport blundered into the engagement (from points unknown) at 4am, as the massed guns of the Turkish fleet opened up on them.
By 6am, the escorting Spanish destroyers were in big trouble. When the battle finished at 10am, the Spanish DDs had been sunk – by the new a very effective TCG Reşadiye. Only the second ship, after the Yavuz in the Greek War, to actually sink an enemy warship.
The fleet was safely in port at Bilbao to undergo repairs by 2pm that afternoon, without being troubled again by air or sea. This signified the end of the naval war in Europe.
OTL Events: Europe.Allied planes bombed Prague for the first time. Moscow requested permission for their troops to enter Bulgarian territory. Milan Nedić's collaborationist puppet government of the Axis powers, the Government of National Salvation in Nazi-occupied Serbia, was disbanded.
---xxx---
5 Oct 44
Murcia [1 VP] fell to the fast-moving 4 Cav Div at 4pm on the afternoon of 5 October. But still, Spain would not capitulate.
OTL Events: Europe.The Battle of Memel began on the Eastern Front. The incomplete Italian aircraft carrier Sparviero was scuttled at Genoa by Axis forces. Five pilots of No. 401 Squadron RCAF participated in the shooting down of a Messerschmitt Me 262 over the Netherlands, marking the first time that a jet fighter had been shot down by enemy fire.
---xxx---
Los Angeles
Ed Exley had done his digging in the last few days. His notes reminded him that a copy of that distinctive calling card had been left at the apartment of Lynn Bracken early on in the investigation. But other than a shameful beating by Bud, who had been in a jealous rage after discovering Exley had also slept with her, Lynn had not been harmed. Perhaps it meant that, despite the warning of the card, Lynn had not been who Bud had been looking for.
Whatever the explanation might be, Bud had since had ample opportunity to harm Lynn but had not done so. Instead, he had apparently fallen genuinely in love with Lynn and had helped Ed take down the corrupt Dudley Smith. But how could Exley now handle this difficult situation, without getting in trouble with his own side: the FBI and its notorious leader J. Edgar Hoover? Of whom Chief Special Agent Richard Hood seemed to be a trusted lieutenant.
Hood was in Exley’s office to hear the results of his investigations. Exley stood, hands on his desk, fixing Hood with an earnest stare, eye-to-eye.
“Your MAH man, Cumali, was right,” he began. “It seems White’s time here in the LAPD began only in 1942. His letter of reference and papers of transfer were all in order, but it looks like his back story before joining the LAPD was a well-contrived fabrication.”
“Yes, Captain, that’s right. Because we – the FBI – helped our MAH friends with an investigation they were conducting, by giving him that identity. But it seems they were up to a little bit more than they let on at the time. There is likely S.I.T.H. involvement in this and it is very murky.”
“Right. Well, that calling card was provided to a, ah, witness in a murder case here that has only recently been concluded. The coincidentally named Midnite Owl massacre, the investigation of which uncovered organised crime involvement.”
“Hmm, yes, in which your predecessor Dudley Smith and a number of his subordinates died heroically defending the good people of Los Angeles.” Hood smiled knowingly when repeating this official line. He clearly knew exactly how ‘heroic’ Smith had really been. “The organised criminals involved were in turn linked to the Italian Mafia – of the group opposed to our Turkish friends back in Italy.”
“Ah, so that’s why they were interested. And why White was sent over here in the first place?”
“Perhaps. We also think he was on orders to track down a certain person of interest to them – that Veronica Lake look-alike and subject of a recent Hollywood thriller about her exploits: a British citizen by the name of Persephonee Fotheringay-Phipps. Who we also know was an MI6 operative with a price on her head from the Turks. She had high level contacts in the OSS and remains under US protection, despite our Turkish allies wanting to get their hands on her.”
Exley paused and thought. It was unclear whether the Turks really thought White had gone rogue, or were perhaps just trying to get back in contact with him after he had almost been killed and then disappeared from their view. Whatever the circumstances, Lynn must be in danger even being associated with him.
“I think I know where Bud is,” Exley volunteered. “But I need to confirm something and tie up some loose ends. My question is, do we want the Turks to get him or not?”
“Perceptive, Captain. We don’t want him running about. We believe he was responsible for some Turkish hits out in the east, but not for the one on our operative B.J. Guildenstern. We believe the accusation is the Turks yanking our chain to get additional assistance on this. There’s a certain former Turkish ‘Cultural Attaché’, no longer in the country and diplomatically protected anyway, we believe was behind that one. Miss Perse remains under our protection, but White – this ‘Duke of Midnight’ – is a 'loose end' that needs, ah, tidying up.”
“Very well, Mr Hood, let me take care of things. You can tell Mr Cumali that I should be able to confirm White’s location in a couple of days.”
“I will, but he’ll be impatient.”
“Good detective work takes time. You can tell him that for free, too.”
Left: “You can tell Mr Cumali that I should be able to confirm White’s location in a couple of days.” “I will, but he’ll be impatient.” Right: Hood informs a very dubious Cumali of the investigation’s “progress”. The MAH man is not impressed, but is forced to wait.
---xxx---
6-7 Oct 44
La Coruña was taken unopposed when 16 Inf Div marched in at 1pm on 6 October. The Spanish capital shifted yet again, this time west to Oviedo [a non-VP province]. Still they would not surrender but only Malaga remained to be taken before they would have no other choice.
At midnight on 7 October 1943, STAVKA confirmed that with the taking of La Coruña, effective control had been exercised over Spain under the Comintern’s agreed victory objectives. They had won the war - in Europe, at the least!
However, this was not quite yet enough for Turkey: Spain’s full capitulation was required.
OTL Events: Europe, Middle East, US.On 6 October, the Battle of Debrecen began in Hungary. On the 7th, the Dumbarton Oaks Conference concluded. On the Italian front, the V Corps of the British Eighth Army launches an offensive beyond the river Rubicon. The Alexandria Protocol was signed between Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, leading to the establishment of the Arab League on March 22, 1945. And "You Always Hurt the One You Love" by The Mills Brothers topped the US Billboard singles charts.
---xxx---
Bisbee, Arizona
In Bisbee, as Bud’s recovery progressed, Lynn was out buying groceries at the corner shop that afternoon. A sales attendant she did not recognise handed over her change. The current hit song "You Always Hurt the One You Love" was playing on the wireless.
“Oh, and ma’am, here’s your receipt,” he added, with a slightly watchful look on his face.
“It’s OK, I don’t really need one,” Lynn replied off-handedly.
“Oh, I really think you do, Ma’am,” he insisted, passing it over and pressing it firmly into her hand. “Do check out the special voucher on the back. It will give you some excellent savings.”
She took it and, thinking little more of it, headed back home.
But later that evening, she did glance at the back of the receipt – and saw a brief message written there. In the hand of Ed Exley.
“Lynn. Am being watched. A trusted man has passed this message. You are in danger. Turks are coming. Get out of there. Your call on Bud – he’s one of theirs. Disappear now. Ed”
Her blood ran cold. She dashed into the bedroom, where Bud was in bed, still recovering.
Without mentioning the note or the warning, she confronts him: “Bud. Is there something you need to tell me?”
“What do you mean?” he asks, suddenly both wary and worried.
“Let me just ask you, what do we eat at Thanksgiving?” The flicker in his eyes gives him away.
“I do have something to confess to you, Lynn,” he says sadly.
“I do have something to confess to you, Lynn.”
He gets up, putting both a playing card and a picture of himself from his time in the LAPD up on a small blackboard. He explains his double identity, his childhood recruitment by the Turks and his violent activities back in the US. And finally gets to the point.
“I had been sent to LA to do two things. First, to break up an inimical organised crime cell that was feeding funds to Turkey's enemies. Second, to track down the English secret agent Perse Fotheringay-Phipps for the Turkish secret police, the MAH.”
“Oh, the woman in that movie?”
“Yes, the Veronica Lake look-alike. Last seen in Hollywood. At first, I thought you were her. That’s when I left that calling card at your apartment in LA, to see if it would cause you to panic and make a run for it. But you didn't and then I fell for you. You looked similar to the pictures I had of this Perse, but there were differences. The other part of my mission for Turkey was helping Exley to expose that crime gang being aided by Dudley Smith, linked back to the Italian Mafia – they were siphoning funds back to Italy to support resistance cells.”
In fact, it transpired that Don Vito Corleone had earlier that year advised his Turkish masters of “a stone in both our shoes” that need “removal”. White was there to help remove it.
“I went off the books after the Victory Motel shoot-out and now they’re coming for me. You are in danger because of me. I want to stay with you, but I’m still not properly recovered and I’m afraid staying with me would put a target on your back. You go, I’ll stay and face the music.
Wendell White explains himself to Lynn.
“No, Wendell – is that your real name?”
“It is.”
“You’re wrong! I love you too – and you won’t put me in any more danger than I’m in already. We’re in this together.”
She dashes into her closet, pulls out an easel she has stored there, folded. And pins two photos onto it.
'Lynn’s' easel gets a last work-out, after a few years gathering dust.
Lynn drops the accent she has been putting on so well for these last few months and lapses into her true cultured English voice.
“My dear boy, I am Perse! Veronica agreed to sow seeds of doubt as a decoy, while I disappeared into the LA underworld. I did get plastic surgery – funded by my OSS benefactors – not to make me look more like either Veronica or myself, but less. I had a cover story and it held. Until Dudley Smith’s goons started to close in, apparently looking for a handsome payday through a ransom to the highest bidder. I had to find a way to get out of the predicament so teamed up with both you and Ed to get myself that protection.”
Bud says nothing, but regards her with wide-eyed admiration.
“So, the Turks are after both of us," she continued. "The Americans will probably continue to try to protect me, especially as this war draws to a close and they want to maintain good relations with the United Kingdom. I fear they won’t protect you, though. Not without a compelling reason.”
They quickly make their plans, making their peace with each other and the situation.
At midnight, the door crashes open. Cumali and three heavily armed ‘Third Secretaries for Cultural Liaison’ burst in. They see Perse and Bud in the bedroom …
… or their pictures, anyway. They had clearly fled just a short time before. Into thin air. Cumali curses, while the two lovers disappear along a long, flat Arizona road. Bound for – who knows where. As long as it took them far away from secret wars, which they had had enough of for many lifetimes.
---xxx---
8 Oct 44
By the morning of 8 October, most Comintern units in central Spain were holding in place. The last few Spanish divisions there were allowed to escape encirclement, because the Turks knew something those isolated Spanish divisional commanders did not.
Ten hours later, at 5pm, ‘Wraith’ Loggins and ‘Chesty’ Puller rolled into Malaga with the advance guard of the 1st US Marine ‘Old Breed’ Division. The Mayor of the city had declared it open. The last major Spanish stronghold had been liberated. Franco was soon on his way to Madrid under a flag of truce. And Loggins started trying to track down the elusive Tyler Durden.
---xxx---
9 Oct 44
The Spanish surrender came into force at midnight on 9 October 1944, which would become known as Victory in Europe Day. By that time, all the delegations to the peace conference had already arrived at their secret location and were preparing for the opening plenary session that would begin the next day.
Because there had not been time to develop a war goal to install Communism in Spain [and because of the zany Paradox rules concerning these capitulations] Franco and his regime still claimed to be the legal government of Spain.
Naturally, newspapers around the world had headlines screaming the news, which had been filtering out since the day before.
OTL Event: Moscow, USSR.The Fourth Moscow Conference began. Winston Churchill, Joseph Stalin and U.S. ambassador W. Averell Harriman met to discuss the future of Europe. [Comment: in a nice parallel, this is VE Day in the ATL and the Big Four, Japan and other invited countries will meet in Geneva to discuss the future of Europe – and the world.]
---xxx---
Theatre Summaries and Appendices
The surrender of Spain brought it into the Comintern, making it one of the more powerful of the minor Comintern powers, particularly in naval and air strength (by numbers, anyway).
In the first eight days of October, not much had changed in the Far East.
In the rest of Asia, things remained almost unchanged, as they had for months now.
The same went for Australia, New Zealand and the rest of the Pacific Theatre.
The French government was no longer in exile, but remained under the control of a totalitarian right wing regime, with the next election not due until May 1948. MAJGEN de Gaulle remained languishing away in Brazzaville.
Acting Captain Metin Sadik survived the war. In the end, 15 Inf Div, the veterans of so many dire battles over the years, was not required to fire a shot in anger during the entire Spanish campaign. They ended the war in Sagunto, on the road to Valencia, from where he would eventually send a postcard to his mother back home, to confirm he had come through, alive if not unscathed.
And so stood the world at midnight on 9 October 1944, as the delegations gathered at the Palace of Nations in Geneva, under the watchful eye of the League of nations’ Secretary General, Seán Lester. The first item on the agenda was the peace talks with Japan, who had sent their Foreign Minister to lead their delegation. The rest would follow, after it was determined whether the war would continue or terms be reached, with Japan to participate in subsequent discussions of other issues of concern to the whole New World Order.
Seán Lester (b. 28 September 1888) was an Irish diplomat who was the last secretary-general of the League of Nations from 31 August 1940 [until 18 April 1946 in OTL]. In 1933, Lester was seconded to the League's Secretariat and sent to Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland), as the League of Nations' High Commissioner from 1934 to 1937. Lester became Deputy Secretary General of the League of Nations in 1937. In 1940, he became Secretary General of the body, but the League now had only 100 employees, including guards and janitors, of the original 700.
Lester remained in Geneva throughout the war and kept the League's technical and humanitarian programs in limited operation for the duration of the war. [In OTL 1946, he would oversee the League's closure and turned over the League's assets and functions to the newly-established United Nations. For game purposes, I will be assuming his role.]
---xxx---
Coming Up: With the war now formally over in Europe, the talks in Geneva will determine the immediate fate of the post-war world, whether in Europe alone or across the globe, depending upon the outcome of the first day of negotiations on 10 October.
I will come out soon with the nature and format of those negotiations and seek volunteers willing to role-play. It will involve a series of votes on issues in a determined order, with points able to be scored according to outcomes (for a little 'game within a game' for participants).
Each country will get a profile and a sheet setting out how many points they can score depending on the outcome of each vote. In the spirit of what I’m seeking to do, these should remain confidential to each player, but you can use them to help negotiate the optimal outcome by bargain between countries (publicly or by private message if you wish). Vote pledges can be made: informal ones can be broken without losing anything except credibility. But if a formal private pledge (in a private conversation) is made as witnessed before the Secretary General and broken, the aggrieved party can elect to make the breach public, leading to a penalty for the offender (a vote loss for 'bad boy' behaviour in the Conference Caucus).
The total number of possible points will vary between countries, but the comparative ranking at the end will also reflect what proportion of the possible votes each country, large and small, attained during the Conference. So while there will be overall points winners that reflect how the country did (which you’d expect the bigger powers to dominate), the smallest power represented may end up ‘winning’ the prize for the most successful ‘handicapped’ outcome. And could prove a pivotal ‘swing vote’ in any tight ballots.
We’ll then see what map we end up with and I may apply some decolonisation/map adjustments following that to reflect the post war world in the immediate aftermath of the Conference. Hope enough people will be interested in role-playing a country to make it work! It could gradually unfold over a number of weeks of real time, so the AAR is not over yet.
Aside from all that, we can have our usual round of robust discussions of the alt-geopolitical situation that is emerging. I’ll come out with another chapter that will outline the rules for the Conference and which countries will be represented.
While I have some likely candidates in mind if they wish to volunteer (I won’t be roleplaying Turkey), it’s all up for grabs. And there could be competition for some of them (eg the US and UK could have more than one taker, for example). So I may help to shape some allocations as that plays out.
I would like Turkey itself or Russia. Some big decisions to make on where rge birders are drawn between them, and how much they work together at the conference...
And so victory is ours. Franco may stick around briefly as the leader of an interim government, but Spain is in the Comintern, and with that we control the med's Northern coast, from Gibraltar to Syria.
I'm torn on Perse, one side of me is glad she's made it out of this mess, but the GRU operative in me curses that she hasn't been neutralised. I don't expect it to happen now that the war is over. There is too much at stake for Turkey and the Soviet Union to piss off both the British and the Americans. Especially the latter have been of great help in our achievement of this victory. Bud White, on the other hand, is fair game, and I also wouldn't feel even a little bad about his demise. Such a weak spy, falling for the agent you've been sent to kill, and not even realising it until she actually tells you. If anything, I've gained some renewed though reluctant admiration for Perse, she handled this like a pro. Doesn't mean I wouldn't shoot her in the face given the chance, but I would shoot her respectfully, and I can count the people I've shot respectfully on one hand.
I don't know what the future holds for me, as I've been getting rumblings from Lubjanka that some people in the Soviet security establishment are thinking I might have grown to like Turkey too much. I don't think they want me to be the Soviet representative at this peace conference, though I will probably be present on the sidelines, to do my usual espionage/counterespionage work. After all I'm not a diplomat, nor a statesman, I'm a spy and a military man, I prefer to negotiate with the opposing parties in hand-cuffs and a Makarov in my hand.
Let us celebrate this great victory, while saving a thought for those brave Red Army Soldiers pushing back the Empire of the Rising sun, which is undeniably setting now.
nazdrovje!
SkitalecS3
OOC: I love the idea of interactive border negotiations. I'm sure we'll get more details, and crucially a map of the pre-negotiations situation, in the next post. I'm hereby volunteering as a tribute. I would love to represent either the Soviet Union (with another character than SkitalecS3, maybe an angry Molotov), Communist Germany (I could see some "re-formed" Nazi having to repress his urges to form the fourth reich right there and then), or France (Some suave French diplomat who's having to deal with Giraud in his left ear and de Gaulle in his right, whilst trying to negotiate metropolitan France back into one, hopefully democratic, piece). Romania could also be interesting, trying to wrangle Bessarabia back from the Soviets (though I don't hold out much hope for that), or the territories they lost in the Second Vienna Award from the UGNR (a bit more likely). As a Belgian, Belgium would also be nice, though I'm not sure how much negotiating room they have. (maybe some fighting over Congo and it's mineral riches, if Central Africa is even part of the negotiations.). Depending on how it ends up going, I might still react to proceedings as SkitalecS3.
As the events around the invasion played out, 3 Cav Div secured Valladolid, bringing Spain closer to surrender and forcing their temporary capital to relocate yet again, this time to La Coruña, even as Turkish troops began to march on it.
The fans of the football team of La Coruna are known as "the Turks", so in this timeline maybe they got this nickname because they handed over the capital without any bloodshed!
Left: “You can tell Mr Cumali that I should be able to confirm White’s location in a couple of days.” “I will, but he’ll be impatient.” Right: Hood informs a very dubious Cumali of the investigation’s “progress”. The MAH man is not impressed, but is forced to wait.
I will come out soon with the nature and format of those negotiations and seek volunteers willing to role-play. It will involve a series of votes on issues in a determined order, with points able to be scored according to outcomes (for a little 'game within a game' for participants).
Each country will get a profile and a sheet setting out how many points they can score depending on the outcome of each vote. In the spirit of what I’m seeking to do, these should remain confidential to each player, but you can use them to help negotiate the optimal outcome by bargain between countries (publicly or by private message if you wish). Vote pledges can be made: informal one's can be broken without losing anything except credibility. But if a formal private pledge (in a private conversation) is made as witnessed before the Secretary General and broken, the aggrieved can elect to make the breach public, leading to a penalty for the offender (a vote loss for 'bad boy' behaviour in the Conference Caucus).
The total number of possible points will vary between countries, but the comparative ranking at the end will also reflect what proportion of the possible votes each country, large and small, attained during the Conference. So while there will be overall points winners that reflect how the country did (which you’d expect the bigger powers to dominate), the smallest power represented may end up ‘winning’ the prize for the most successful ‘handicapped’ outcome. And could prove a pivotal ‘swing vote’ in any tight ballots.
We’ll then see what map we end up with and I may apply some decolonisation/map adjustments following that to reflect the post war world in the immediate aftermath of the Conference. Hope enough people will be interested in role-playing a country to make it work! It could gradually unfold over a number of weeks of real time, so the AAR is not over yet.
Aside from all that, we can have our usual round of robust discussions of the alt-geopolitical situation that is emerging. I’ll come out with another chapter that will outline the rules for the Conference and which countries will be represented.
While I have some likely candidate in mind if they wish to volunteer (I won’t be roleplaying Turkey), it’s all up for grabs. And there could be competition for some of them (eg the US and UK could have more than one taker, for example). So I may help to shape some allocations as that plays out.
I LOVE this conference idea! Definitely would like to participate (and if possible RP Turkey, but I'll go with whatever you see fit). One thing though, in the second week of May we'll be on honeymoon (yaaay!!!) so that week I don't expect to be available much. I hope it would be possible to plan around that
I absolutely see Kelebek as having known where they were all along, clocked that the spy sent was a traitor, and 'let them get away with it' only because it'll be cruellest and funnier to come kill them in twenty years when nobody cares.
I don't know what the future holds for me, as I've been getting rumblings from Lubjanka that some people in the Soviet security establishment are thinking I might have grown to like Turkey too much. I don't think they want me to be the Soviet representative at this peace conference, though I will probably be present on the sidelines, to do my usual espionage/counterespionage work. After all I'm not a diplomat, nor a statesman, I'm a spy and a military man, I prefer to negotiate with the opposing parties in hand-cuffs and a Makarov in my hand.
Russia has its own problems, to be sure. Stalin has a decade or so in him, so short term stability overall, but with the three big pillars starting to clash properly against each other.
Turkey wise, I've suddenly realised a (very non canon) ending for the Republics is the conference team coming back to their cabinet room, flush with success and relief over winning the peace as well as the war.
Only Kelebek's in the big chair and swing around to great them. In its smile, they see, with sinking expressions and feelings, that they've spent the last few years selling themselves and Turkey to the devil, both literally and metaphorically, and now its time to pay up. SITH controls internal security, poltical policing, all intelligence work, all counter espionage, all foreign activities, and oversees the police and court system in all the core republics in Turkey and the balkans.
As Kelebek slowly smirks and rises with ominous chanting and hooded acolytes coming from nowhere, the president begins screaming and screaming and screaming.
Fin
Then the curtain comes up, the audience raises they were watching a SITH propaganda film the whole time, and they have all become indoctrinated. Their cheers as the national anthem plays over the credits look and sound indistinguishable from their former president's screams.
No one knew where the Dark Lord Kelebek was at this time. Which everyone was happy about. But there were rumours of a special mission assigned by Inönü himself.
Yes, it's always healthy to know where Kelebek isn't. His mission has something to do with Japan and the peace conference perhaps, or Yoshiko Kawashima? It is intriguing though, since Japan does already seem to have engaged with the diplomatic process by this point.
By 6am, the escorting Spanish destroyers were in big trouble. When the battle finished at 10am, the Spanish DDs had been sunk – by the new a very effective TCG Reşadiye. Only the second ship, after the Yavuz in the Greek War, to actually sink an enemy warship.
The fleet was safely in port at Bilbao to undergo repairs by 2pm that afternoon, without being troubled again by air or sea. This signified the end of the naval war in Europe.
Because there had not been time to develop a war goal to install Communism in Spain [and because of the zany Paradox rules concerning these capitulations] Franco and his regime still claimed to be the legal government of Spain.
The French government was no longer in exile, but remained under the control of a totalitarian right wing regime, with the next election not due until May 1948. MAJGEN de Gaulle remained languishing away in Brazzaville.
This is very troubling indeed. It looks like the Anti-Fascist coalition needs to take on one final challenge. Happily, the shooting has finished and Paradox’s hard-and-fast faction rules no longer need to be applied quite so rigorously. It seems to me the peace conference should aim to agree zones of control that can be enforced quickly by the major powers before the French fascists have time to establish themselves. There is already a kind-of de facto Turkish zone – so probably a British zone and an American zone need to be added. And maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea if somebody did try to find General de Gaulle... or any other credible French politician for that matter.
We believe he was responsible for some Turkish hits out in the east, but not for the one on our operative B.J. Guildenstern. We believe the accusation is the Turks yanking our chain to get additional assistance on this. There’s a certain former Turkish ‘Cultural Attaché’, no longer in the country and diplomatically protected anyway, we believe was behind that one.
It was probably somewhere around about here when I finally accepted the seemingly implausible (Lynn = Perse) was actually the truth!
Checking back, Perse was last seen on 7th April, hitting the road alone, and Lynn was introduced in Los Angeles just two days later receiving the duke’s calling card. Possibly Perse had been setting up her back-story in Bisbee, Arizona? Or she was just trying to throw people off her trail… successfully in my case!
So, you’re telling me my theory that she’s really an Aussie secret agent who began her career by penetrating MI6 in the early Thirties is just plain wrong?
… the two lovers disappear along a long, flat Arizona road. Bound for – who knows where. As long as it took them far away from secret wars, which they had had enough of for many lifetimes.
I am certainly delighted Perse is no longer having to face her troubles alone! Her partnership with Bud will be immeasurably stronger now they can talk through their problems openly and make full use of their combined talents. Nice ending!
I will come out soon with the nature and format of those negotiations and seek volunteers willing to role-play. It will involve a series of votes on issues in a determined order, with points able to be scored according to outcomes (for a little 'game within a game' for participants).
Thanks for the comments on what will not be the last chapter of this AAR, but what does mark the momentous completion of the original mission set for Turkey way back in January 1936 (more than five RT years ago)! The next instalment is close to being posted, where much more about the Geneva Peace Conference will be made clear. The AAR is not going to finish too suddenly. There will be an aftermath and reckoning, with plenty of opportunity for reader comment and participation yet!
I would like Turkey itself or Russia. Some big decisions to make on where rge birders are drawn between them, and how much they work together at the conference...
And so victory is ours. Franco may stick around briefly as the leader of an interim government, but Spain is in the Comintern, and with that we control the med's Northern coast, from Gibraltar to Syria.
I'm torn on Perse, one side of me is glad she's made it out of this mess, but the GRU operative in me curses that she hasn't been neutralised. I don't expect it to happen now that the war is over. There is too much at stake for Turkey and the Soviet Union to piss off both the British and the Americans. Especially the latter have been of great help in our achievement of this victory. Bud White, on the other hand, is fair game, and I also wouldn't feel even a little bad about his demise. Such a weak spy, falling for the agent you've been sent to kill, and not even realising it until she actually tells you. If anything, I've gained some renewed though reluctant admiration for Perse, she handled this like a pro. Doesn't mean I wouldn't shoot her in the face given the chance, but I would shoot her respectfully, and I can count the people I've shot respectfully on one hand.
As mentioned some time back, she was officially 'neutralised' as a UK operative in Turkey when she was rumbled, but in this case managed to escape the fate of many so apprehended (a trip on the Midnight Express, interrogation by Kelebek and an unmarked grave), in part because she was a British agent but mainly because she was too crafty and had high-powered help.
She and Bud may never be able to rest easy. They'll be a kind of espionage Bonny and Clyde on the run for years to come, in all likelihood.
I don't know what the future holds for me, as I've been getting rumblings from Lubjanka that some people in the Soviet security establishment are thinking I might have grown to like Turkey too much. I don't think they want me to be the Soviet representative at this peace conference, though I will probably be present on the sidelines, to do my usual espionage/counterespionage work. After all I'm not a diplomat, nor a statesman, I'm a spy and a military man, I prefer to negotiate with the opposing parties in hand-cuffs and a Makarov in my hand.
I suspect you will be safe for now, having handled the important Turkish relationship so effectively over the years of the war. Longer term though - who knows? It will still be Sta;lin's Russia for some years yet and there's no Secret Committee here to offer protection.
Let us celebrate this great victory, while saving a thought for those brave Red Army Soldiers pushing back the Empire of the Rising sun, which is undeniably setting now.
OOC: I love the idea of interactive border negotiations. I'm sure we'll get more details, and crucially a map of the pre-negotiations situation, in the next post. I'm hereby volunteering as a tribute. I would love to represent either the Soviet Union (with another character than SkitalecS3, maybe an angry Molotov), Communist Germany (I could see some "re-formed" Nazi having to repress his urges to form the fourth reich right there and then), or France (Some suave French diplomat who's having to deal with Giraud in his left ear and de Gaulle in his right, whilst trying to negotiate metropolitan France back into one, hopefully democratic, piece). Romania could also be interesting, trying to wrangle Bessarabia back from the Soviets (though I don't hold out much hope for that), or the territories they lost in the Second Vienna Award from the UGNR (a bit more likely). As a Belgian, Belgium would also be nice, though I'm not sure how much negotiating room they have. (maybe some fighting over Congo and it's mineral riches, if Central Africa is even part of the negotiations.). Depending on how it ends up going, I might still react to proceedings as SkitalecS3.
Glad you want to be involved. Maybe Germany might prove interesting for you, if TBC was to take the USSR? It will be the largest of the powers in terms of voting rights (see next chapter soon) at the Peace Conference and will have its own independent voice there while the Conference lasts, even if its fate afterwards turns out to be less than that when the Treaty of Geneva is settled.
The fans of the football team of La Coruna are known as "the Turks", so in this timeline maybe they got this nickname because they handed over the capital without any bloodshed!
I LOVE this conference idea! Definitely would like to participate (and if possible RP Turkey, but I'll go with whatever you see fit). One thing though, in the second week of May we'll be on honeymoon (yaaay!!!) so that week I don't expect to be available much. I hope it would be possible to plan around that
Great! Turkey will be yours, I couldn't imagine it otherwise (though Kelebek would also have been a great choice). For the time you're away, you can either vote and negotiate in advance, have an alternate fill in, or we may just defer until you're back on line.
I absolutely see Kelebek as having known where they were all along, clocked that the spy sent was a traitor, and 'let them get away with it' only because it'll be cruellest and funnier to come kill them in twenty years when nobody cares.
Russia has its own problems, to be sure. Stalin has a decade or so in him, so short term stability overall, but with the three big pillars starting to clash properly against each other.
Funnily enough, he may be in a more contested position than in OTL, despite having apparently won big on paper. Too many fathers of victory claiming paternity!
Turkey wise, I've suddenly realised a (very non canon) ending for the Republics is the conference team coming back to their cabinet room, flush with success and relief over winning the peace as well as the war.
Only Kelebek's in the big chair and swing around to great them. In its smile, they see, with sinking expressions and feelings, that they've spent the last few years selling themselves and Turkey to the devil, both literally and metaphorically, and now its time to pay up. SITH controls internal security, poltical policing, all intelligence work, all counter espionage, all foreign activities, and oversees the police and court system in all the core republics in Turkey and the balkans.
As Kelebek slowly smirks and rises with ominous chanting and hooded acolytes coming from nowhere, the president begins screaming and screaming and screaming.
Fin
Then the curtain comes up, the audience raises they were watching a SITH propaganda film the whole time, and they have all become indoctrinated. Their cheers as the national anthem plays over the credits look and sound indistinguishable from their former president's screams.
Oh, it's alright, he's authorised to assist a little. It's not like the Turkish Navy will be posing a threat to the RN any time soon. Plus the UK probably wants 1. the war to end soon. 2. To curry a bit of favour with Turkey. 3. To try to ensure Turkey is given good reasons not to want to snip Gibraltar off, now they control Spain.
Yes, it's always healthy to know where Kelebek isn't. His mission has something to do with Japan and the peace conference perhaps, or Yoshiko Kawashima? It is intriguing though, since Japan does already seem to have engaged with the diplomatic process by this point.
Good ideas. Who knows where he may pop up? Though the climate in Geneva is not his favourite. And Ambassador Ceylan will just happen to be nearby, ready to advise the Turkish delegation. And 'influence' those of the others! (Making offers they can't refuse? )
This is very troubling indeed. It looks like the Anti-Fascist coalition needs to take on one final challenge. Happily, the shooting has finished and Paradox’s hard-and-fast faction rules no longer need to be applied quite so rigorously. It seems to me the peace conference should aim to agree zones of control that can be enforced quickly by the major powers before the French fascists have time to establish themselves. There is already a kind-of de facto Turkish zone – so probably a British zone and an American zone need to be added. And maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea if somebody did try to find General de Gaulle... or any other credible French politician for that matter.
It was probably somewhere around about here when I finally accepted the seemingly implausible (Lynn = Perse) was actually the truth!
Checking back, Perse was last seen on 7th April, hitting the road alone, and Lynn was introduced in Los Angeles just two days later receiving the duke’s calling card. Possibly Perse had been setting up her back-story in Bisbee, Arizona? Or she was just trying to throw people off her trail… successfully in my case!
It was the sting all along as Lynn was being written - just the odd half-hint and nothing (I hope) that could contradict the denouement continuity-wise.
So, you’re telling me my theory that she’s really an Aussie secret agent who began her career by penetrating MI6 in the early Thirties is just plain wrong?
I am certainly delighted Perse is no longer having to face her troubles alone! Her partnership with Bud will be immeasurably stronger now they can talk through their problems openly and make full use of their combined talents. Nice ending!
Thank you. Perse survived when almost all her contemporaries got the bullet. As did Cennet and young Metin Sadik, though none of the three were ever guaranteed. They just went where the story took me.
Chapter 237: The Geneva Peace Conference - Preparations (9 October 1944)
League of Nations Secretary General Seán Lester distributed the rules that would govern the Geneva Peace Conference to those countries that would participate and others interested in the proceedings.
Secretary General Seán Lester announces the rules for the Geneva Peace Conference, 9 October 1944.
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The Geneva Peace Conference Rules
October 1944
Clause 1 – Attendance and Representation
1.1 The initial conference will resolve the question of whether peace will be concluded between the Anti-Fascist Coalition (Comintern and Allies) and the Axis (led by Japan). If peace is made, as an incentive Japan will be represented for all the remaining negotiations in Geneva. If a general war with them persists, they will be excluded from all subsequent discussions and votes.
1.2 The parties represented at the Conference have been decided by their prominence in the war to date and relative power and importance. For example, Nationalist China and all other countries that have remained neutral are excluded. Some minor powers in the respective factions have not been included and will be represented by their more powerful sponsors (hegemons).
1.3 The voting body at the Conference will act as analogous to single-chamber assembly based on proportional representation. A formula agreed by the ‘Big Five’ initial attendees (The USSR, USA, UK, Turkey and Japan) based primarily on a combination of military power (points from a combination of land, air and naval power), industrial capacity (IC) and the holding of key territory (ie VPs) has been agreed.
1.4 All countries can vote independently throughout the Conference, the decisions of which will not be enforced until the last proposition has been decided. Therefore, any decisions voted along the way will not bind or split that national bloc of votes (for example, the question of Germany’s future, even if it is to be puppeted and/or partitioned, does not affect Germany’s voting freedom for the rest of the Conference).
1.5 Invited countries and their initial bloc of votes are:
Soviet Union - 17 votes
UK, Dominions and Minor Allies - 15 votes
USA - 14 votes
Japan - 13 votes
Turkey - 10 votes
Germany (DDR) - 4 votes
France - 3 votes
Romania - 2 votes
Spain - 2 votes
Poland - 1 vote
Total - 81 votes
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Clause 2 – Voting System
2.1 Most questions will have two or (mainly) three possible outcomes. Votes on various issues will be presented in groups, with the votes for each group of issues to be given simultaneously by a voting deadline to be specified by the Secretary General for each round. The voting order will be issued in advance by the Secretary General.
Note: this is to allow planning of the possible use of vetoes by individual countries and trade-off agreements to be negotiated between parties for future votes. The nature and rules for these are specified later.
2.2 Each country will vote in a secret ballot, presented to the Secretary General (via personal message using the conversations tab on the Forum). Once lodged, the vote can be changed up until the deadline, but not afterwards. Though lodged in secret, the vote tallies and how each country voted will be declared publicly in Plenary Session (ie via the main AAR pages).
2.3 The winning proposition in each vote will be decided by a ‘first past the post’ system, the proposition receiving the largest number of votes being adopted.
Note: the broad rationale for this is mainly to reduce complexity and the time taken for this long series of votes.
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Clause 3 – Vetoes and Penalties for Wielding Them
3.1 Various votes will specify that one or more countries may exercise a veto over the adoption of propositions. These principally apply to the transfer of power over countries or territory currently controlled by one of the Big Five powers. Each proposition will specify the effect of a veto being exercised on it by the governing power.
3.2 Each time a country exercises a veto, it will lose one vote from its representation in the voting college, to apply to the next round of voting. For example, if a country with 12 votes vetoes two propositions in a tranche of voting (ie group of propositions presented for simultaneous votes), it would only exercise ten votes in the next tranche/round of voting.
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Clause 4 – Vote Pledges, Rules and Penalties
4.1 All votes are unbound and secret until the outcomes are announced for each round, whatever agreements may be made publicly or privately between parties.
4.2 A Public Pledge could be proposed, agreed to and announced in the Plenary Forum (ie AAR main page). Which any concerned party could publicly endorse, deny, adhere to or abrogate without voting penalty (other than damage to public credibility).
4.3. A Private Pledge could be made in private between two or more parties (using the conversation tab), again with no voting penalty if breached by any or all parties. Assertions about such breaches can be made (or fabricated) in public as any party sees fit, but cannot be proved.
4.3.a. But for the more serious parties, a Bound Pledge can be sworn in private (via conversation) with the Secretary General as witness. Once made, it cannot be revoked before the vote or votes it applies to has been conducted. All Bound Pledges are bilateral. While a series of them can be made between more than two players together, they can only be enforced between two players and not made conditional on the actions of a third party.
4.3.b. One or both parties can breach a Bound Pledge if they choose to, but a subsequent voting penalty can be assessed if an aggrieved party complains to the Secretary General and seeks enforcement. If so assessed, one vote will be deducted from the ongoing country’s total for each breach so enforced and allocated to the aggrieved party. The Secretary General will simply announce that “Country X has had Y votes deducted for the breach of a Bound Pledge to Country Z in the last round of voting.” No other details will be announced by the Secretary General (ie the specific proposition or agreement a breach related to), though the concerned parties can say what they like about the incident subsequently.
Note: This represents the loss of prestige for any oath-breaker and the transfer of moral suasion and international support to the offended party.
4.3.c. Parties can (whether truly or scurrilously) assert in private or public to others that a Bound Pledge has been made, whether concerning themselves or others, but the Secretary General will neither confirm nor deny the existence or content of any pledge other than after the fact, in the event of a breach being enforced and only then as specified above.
4.3.d. The breach of a Bound Pledge in a vote dissolves the specific obligation to reciprocate by the other party in a future voting round, whether a breach enforcement is requested or not. If the first part of a Bound Pledge is honoured by a party but breached in a subsequent round by the other party, the request to enforce such a breach can be made after that subsequent vote is finalised.
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Clause 5 – Voting Tranches - Outline
5.1 Voting will be conducted in nine tranches, each tackling one major or a group of smaller decisions. In outline, these will be as follows, with the first two rounds spelled out in a little more detail:
Round One. Peace with Japan: A choice between:
Proposition 1.1 Peace on current lines, Japan retains all occupied territories (either or both the UK and Soviets can veto, in which case the war will continue after the conference ends, but only as a limited war between Japan and country(ies) that veto it, not their allies, puppets or factions. In this case, the UK, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands would be bound by the UK decision and remain at war. But Japan can vote in subsequent items at the conference).
Proposition 1.2 Peace on the old Soviet and UK/Dominion borders; Manchukuo and Mengukuo remain as Japanese puppets but their conquests in Malaya, mainland Australia, New Zealand and the Dutch East Indies must be handed back. Other Japanese occupied areas would be negotiable in Round Two. (Japan can veto, but if they do they are ejected from the rest of the Conference and score no more points under the ‘who won the peace’ scorecard).
Prosition 1.3 The war continues. (No vetoes. Japan is ejected from the rest of the Conference.)
Asia, 9 October 1944
Round Two. If conditional peace is agreed with Japan (Proposition 1.2 in Round One) the fate of other Japanese occupied territories will be negotiated. It will be a simple ‘yes or no’ vote on each as to whether Japan can retain them, with Japan having a veto on each one:
Proposition 2.1 Burma.
Proposition 2.2 Mainland South East Asia.
Proposition 2.3 Occupied Pacific Islands (including in New Guinea).
Proposition 2.4 The Philippines.
South East Asia and the Pacific, 9 October 1944
Note: With the more complicated Japanese peace negotiations out of the way, a typical vote may be along the lines of this hypothetical, where Ruritania has been conquered by Gilder and is currently fully occupied, say like Bulgaria by Turkey in our ATL.
Proposition x.1. Ruritania stays as part of Gilder.
Proposition x.2. Ruritania is released but becomes a puppet of Gilder (no veto).
Proposition x.3. Ruritania is made an Independent member of the current owning faction (Gilder can veto, in which case Ruritania reverts to Puppet status and all bargaining points are scored for each country according to that outcome. And Gilder receives a veto vote penalty in the next round.)
Europe and North Africa, 9 October 1944
Round Three. Germany (Including the border resolution with Poland).
Round Four. Denmark and Finland.
Round Five. Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria and Hungary.
Round Six. Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece and Romania.
Round Seven. Turkish occupied North Africa (Morocco to Libya), Iran and Arabia.
Round Eight. Spain and Italy.
Round Nine. India and Southern France.
Security Council. As a sweetener for good behaviour during the Conference, the new League of Nations Security Council (with powers equivalent to the OTL UNSC) will be constituted by the top five powers by votes after Round Nine is finished, so a major power that vetoes too much or (worse) reneges on too many Bound Pledges risks not only progressively losing influence during the votes, but also even losing their place on the Security Council.
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Clause 6 – Rule Interpretation, Adjudication and Disputes
6.1 The Secretary General will accept arguments from participants on any aspect of rule interpretation or application but reserves the ultimate right to make any decision, without further appeal. The Secretary General can clarify or amend any rule or make additional rules as he sees fit. His decisions will be final.
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OOC - ‘Game Related Matters’
Each country will get a ‘classified’ profile, with a para describing the country’s broad approach that should explain why the points allocated for each outcome have been structured that way. In general, if an issue is really important for a country, additional points are allocated if the ideal outcome is achieved, medium for a so-so outcome and fewer for the worst – perhaps even negative points.
The big nations, with the most issues at stake, will receive more points than many smaller ones or those without as many active issues in play (like Japan, for example, which will have few crucial interests in the main European settlement).
An outright winner of the peace by points will be revealed at the end. No progress scores will be given along the way, though each country can track how they are going themselves, as they will of course know their own point allocations. This will indicate which country overall may have done best out of the Conference, in a fairly arbitrary kind of way.
Perhaps of more interest to the smaller or less involved countries will be a handicap winner, based more on how the bargaining went. For that, I’ll take the spread between minimum (which could be negative for some) and maximum possible scores and plot where each country came in, giving it percentage achievement score. So, if Ruritania’s lowest possible score is -65 and its maximum is 175, that’s a spread of 240 points. So a score of -65 = 0% achievement, 35 points = 50% and 175 = 100%. You don’t need to worry about tracking that so much yourself, I’ll do all that at the end. Each country just needs to do the best it can, even if that means compromising, exchanging votes in deals, settling for a second-best outcome rather than risking the worst, etc. However, it does mean that Poland or Romania could be adjudged the handicap winner.
Mainly though, we get to decide what the immediate post-war landscape looks like. After that, we can hypothesise freely about possible de-colonisation, independence movements, shifts in factional alignments, etc in the years that follow.
Provisional Country Allocations
So, now that you have been advised what countries are available and how it will work. Based on preferences expressed, my own suggestions etc, here are some provisional allocations of potential players to countries. In some cases, if someone is going to be unavailable for a time, we can have an alternate to take over for negotiation and voting during an absence, but they cannot be another participant running a different country, nor can proxies be assigned.
[Edited] Other recent and/or long term and ‘up to date’ (or nearly) contributors who had not yet expressed a preference: @Midnite Duke, @RustyHunter and @madchemist76 (because you are getting very close). Or if there’s anyone out there that’s been lurking for a while but would like to put a ‘left field’ bid in for one of the remaining countries, please let us know.
If you were willing France, Romania, Spain and Poland remain up for grabs, as does an alternate for Turkey if diskoerekto finds himself ‘on diplomatic assignment’ post-wedding , or as a general commentator and standby alternate if anyone has to pull out or go on a break.
If any of the smaller powers are untaken, I’ll just proxy vote them per the best outcome of the preordained points allocated for each option, without them being an active part of the negotiations.
In terms of how much you want to ‘get into it’, that’s up to each person, according to personal preference and time available. As long as you vote when needed, if you want to maintain a low key public or private negotiating position, that’s up to you entirely.
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Coming Up: the next ‘public’ post will cover initial public country profiles for the conference and a few other news pieces – such as shenanigans in Spain concerning MAJ ‘Wraith’ Loggins and the elusive Tyler Durden. Once the country player allocations are decided, I’ll send the ‘private’ country profiles, including what all the detailed voting tranches and propositions will be and how many points you would get for each outcome, to enable planning for votes and vetoes, lobbying, and deal-making.
Other recent and/or long term and ‘up to date’ (or nearly) contributors who had not yet expressed a preference: @Eurasia, @nuclearslurpee, @Midnite Duke, @RustyHunter and @madchemist76 (because you are getting very close). Or if there’s anyone out there that’s been lurking for a while but would like to put a ‘left field’ bid in for one of the remaining countries, please let us know.
I really need to get caught up on this, when I can find the spare hour or so, but I do want to get in on this and should be caught up by the end of the weekend if I make it a priority.
I agree with the suggestion that @Eurasia should have first crack at Japan. If he declines the offer, I will be happy to take the Japanese position, it is not the "Tokyo or bust" I imagined but it will suffice. Otherwise, I feel that Poland should have some representation, one vote is not much but a strategic veto could have some considerable persuasive power.
I also note the absence of China in the nations list, I imagine they may have something to say about Japanese ambitions and would certainly be a proper fit for @RustyHunter if nothing else.
I really need to get caught up on this, when I can find the spare hour or so, but I do want to get in on this and should be caught up by the end of the weekend if I make it a priority.
I agree with the suggestion that @Eurasia should have first crack at Japan. If he declines the offer, I will be happy to take the Japanese position, it is not the "Tokyo or bust" I imagined but it will suffice. Otherwise, I feel that Poland should have some representation, one vote is not much but a strategic veto could have some considerable persuasive power.
I also note the absence of China in the nations list, I imagine they may have something to say about Japanese ambitions and would certainly be a proper fit for @RustyHunter if nothing else.
Excellent! China has been deliberately omitted from the peace conference as they have not been a belligerent in the main conflict. Much like Versailles, neutrals miss out in the settlement. Edit: And China (or the two rival delegations representing it) got ripped off at Versailles anyway, even though they had been a belligerent in that war.
However, post war they would want to be part of the international order, of course. But they never put skin in the game in GW2, so, as Mike Corleone says to Tom Hagen: “Sorry Tom, you’re not a wartime consigliere. You’re out.”
Poland could be an interesting choice - even if one vote doesn’t count for much, they could still win the handicap score, and there will be interests for Poland as part of the negotiations over Germany.
Note: With the more complicated Japanese peace negotiations out of the way, a typical vote may be along the lines of this hypothetical, where Ruritania has been conquered by Gilder and is currently fully occupied, say like Bulgaria by Turkey in our ATL. Proposition x.1. Ruritania stays as part of Gilder. Proposition x.2. Ruritania is released but becomes a puppet of Gilder (no veto). Proposition x.3. Ruritania is made an Independent member of the current owning faction (Gilder can veto, in which case Ruritania reverts to Puppet status and all bargaining points are scored for each country according to that outcome. And Gilder receives a veto vote penalty in the next round.)
Could you please clarifiy a point concerning the exercise of a veto? Suppose Gilder in the above hypothetical scenario chooses to exercise a veto over proposition x.3 but another of the options (let's say x.2, to release Ruritania as a puppet) is the one that actually wins the vote. In this case Gilder may have been prepared to use the veto, but ultimately had no need to do so - would the veto vote penalty for future rounds still apply, or not?
I also note the absence of China in the nations list, I imagine they may have something to say about Japanese ambitions and would certainly be a proper fit for @RustyHunter if nothing else.
Excellent! China has been deliberately omitted from the peace conference as they have not been a belligerent in the main conflict. Much like Versailles, neutrals miss out in the settlement.
I would argue China should not be considered neutral in this context. The Sino-Japanese war may have been a separate incident but it represents part of the wider pattern of Japanese aggression in this time period. The fate of China seems very much comparable with the Turkish Balkan conquests that are apparently going to be subject to adjudication by this conference. I don't see why the partial occupation of China by Japan should be disregarded?
Could you please clarifiy a point concerning the exercise of a veto? Suppose Gilder in the above hypothetical scenario chooses to exercise a veto over proposition x.3 but another of the options (let's say x.2, to release Ruritania as a puppet) is the one that actually wins the vote. In this case Gilder may have been prepared to use the veto, but ultimately had no need to do so - would the veto vote penalty for future rounds still apply, or not?
The veto can only be exercised on proposition 3, if it is the one adopted by the vote. Gilder must decide if it wants to veto after the vote, and before the next round. There would be no point in them exercising it if Propositions 1 or 2 got up. This is why the veto is only specified as applying to Proposition 3.
I would argue China should not be considered neutral in this context. The Sino-Japanese war may have been a separate incident but it represents part of the wider pattern of Japanese aggression in this time period. The fate of China seems very much comparable with the Turkish Balkan conquests that are apparently going to be subject to adjudication by this conference. I don't see why the partial occupation of China by Japan should be disregarded?
I see the point, but in ATL game terms, they’ve been neutral in this Second Great War from its start. Main point being, they don’t get a seat at the Geneva table Because they haven’t ’bought’ it. Re Japan’s occupation of parts of China, the reality on the ground at the moment is they are secure enough there and are still near their high tide mark, despite being rolled back a little in Siberia. If anyone wants to reverse that (and the Chinese haven’t tried) the Japanese would have to be forced out on the ground.
So as it stands, Japan would be making a concession to surrender occupied Soviet and UK/Dominion/Dutch territory in return for peace, the rest occupied since GW2 began up for negotiation. More than that would I think require the war to continue to enforce a more punitive peace on Japan. Essentially, Geneva is principally about the European settlement. Asia will either have to be done dirty now, or after some more years of grinding war to defeat the last Axis holdout and enforce an unconditional surrender - if that is even possible. Both sides will have to decide if they have the endurance for it.
China won’t be so much disregarded, just not specifically addressed as an unenforceable territorial issue at the present juncture. Continuing the war (by whichever side or sides) would be a de facto decision to seek its ultimate resolution. The Soviets or Allies pushing on or Japan not wanting to surrender what they have won in return for a seat at the post-war table.
More to follow.
