Talking Turkey: Alternate History from 1936

[Bullfilter]

Interesting strategic situation at the moment, isn’t it? One point on intermediate defensive lines: still looking at the plans from a number of chapters back (should be findable on the index, I’m out and just on my phone at the moment), where the Cabinet decided in the blue lines etc between where we are now and the last ditch forts.

Apart from trying to distract the Germans (which worked, maybe too well ) we managed to capture and destroy a couple of Axis divisions and caused plenty of casualties. The plan was (unless Hungary collapsed unexpectedly) always to then fall back to the original line and see if we can hold that and bleed them some more in defensive battles. All to buy the Soviets time.

But, like with the last op, always on the lookout for a daring but calculated risk, maybe down the track a bit after the summer has been weathered: or not if Romania falls, in which case it’s off to the depth defences.

 

[diskoerekto]

But what did it achieve? I know we were all surprised and pleased enemy didn't do anything effective whilst we were advancing but when retreating, we got shot up a bunch of times and german tanks are at our door, instead of hundreds of miles away. This might only be answerable in a retrospective after the war but I'm not sure we actually achieved anything of note outside of morale boosting and freaking out the Nazis. And subsequently potentially having them coming down on us hard.



Where? A new line might be an idea but your own concepts earlier about a Romanian defence state that we can't hold a long continuous line for long and doing this would make it longer. Unless it is to be the new first stage line, before a retreat back to the old line and the new Romanian defences?

The probing and eventual breakout would probably happen given the game and all but in universe seems a little wasteful, and of course we don't know yet what army the Axis are going to leave on our line whilst the go invade Romania. If they leave heavy tanks and loads of airplanes, we might as well stick to the lines.

The whole idea of our war plan is distracting the Axis just enough to keep them slightly off kilter when attacking the Russians, giving the men time and space to build a massive force to curb stomp the german army. If we make too much of a nuisance however, the Axis will crush us first and we won't have any way of stopping them until, hopefully, they hit the solid defences we set around Greece and Istanbul. Them wasting time going after Romania is a much better thing for us and the Russians than them pounding their way to Moscow immediately or, if they were actually smart, cushing us first, at least in Europe.

I will amend this however. Should it come to pass that our lines hold, the Germans go back to russia and commit fully, or nearly fully, and get bogged down fighting somewhere out east, then we should attempt a breakout, raids, whatever you wish. Because then they not only can take fight back but it damages their war machine too. Right no way though, everyone including us isn't best served by us reinforcing the line and sticking to it. Either the Germans leave a large force their to pin us down, and thus pin them down too, or they slowly go back to Russia. At which point, we can plan further moves. But not Noel. Not for a month at least, and planning beyond a months time at this stage when the fronts are changing by the hour? Foolish. Especially since we are gambling the defence of the realm on it.

In essence, if you can argue a plan after we know the situation and we have details both of the plan and where it can go, then yeah sure. There's value in someone always coming up with new offensives even whilst a defensive is both in progress and needed. Right now however, we need to reform and recompose, not strike out again immediately. That is exactly what the Axis expects us to do because it is exactly what the french in this timeline did. And we are currently running from the guy who beat them at it. Wait for a little. And once we know what is going on, we can do something.

Some points made, but still, we managed to envelop and destroy what, 2-3 divisions? That's a lot of IC*days and manpower. In nearly every battle they had more (sometimes way more) casualties than us. After all said and done I would regard this op as a success. There were some calculated risks involved, and I of course can not know how Bulliflter felt when he was actually playing the game, but at no point had I the feeling that we'd lose a division or something.

There's also the possibility that maybe we prevented from the general line from breaking. That's more important than anything else.

If we sit back on our comfy line they get to choose when and where and with which well rested forces we are going to have to fight and try to defend against. If we keep them on their toes they will have less agency in what happens. Of course we have to wait until our units are fully reorganized resupplied at full strength and max dug in. After that must we strike.

By the way, my next op suggestion is this:

As of now we hold 4 provinces and the soviets sometimes hold the 5th one (nobody knows why) but AFAIK they lost it again lately. What I propose is also 5 province long. Instead of 2 hill 2 mountains it is 5 hills so slightly less defendible but not a huge difference. We will have 10 more provinces that includes Split and Sarajevo (which has 5 IC, 0.3 leadership, 3 manpower, 5 energy, 3 metal, 1 rares, some VP, air and naval bases and some AA installments among them)

The purple line is the proposed new front line. We can either follow that to envelop the divisions inside, or we can take it wide from the plains (if the speed advantage offsets turning wider, I'll prefer the hilly way but I'm the head of the mountain commando school, not armor) of Tuzla and Doboj south of the Sava river and than turn south. This is op has a bigger offensive phase than kurtlar, but at least there is no withdrawal phase so in total can be even shorter. We'll just settle there and count how many divisions we have taken as prisoners.

We should keep our momentum and we should be the side deciding the tempo even though they're stronger. That way we can prevent them from utilizing their full strength.

 

[roverS3]

I have to say, I really like @diskoerekto 's fighting spirit (also his paint-skills). The proposed forward line is an interesting proposal, as it would deal with the Air Base in Split, while not exposing too much of the front to planes based further away. Turkish planes based in Split would be right on the front line, giving them a significant advantage (Base proximity).

On the ground, encircling a couple more Divisions is always a good thing, if you succeed... therefor this plan should only be executed when the Yeniceri line is stable in the north, and all units are fully reinforced. Even then, it could possibly be advantageous to use a naval landing in the empty province next to Split (Makarska), to close the noose more quickly, though timing for such an operation would be critical to avoid that the landing troops get captured before a land offensive reaches them and they can take Split. The troops fresh from Saudi Arabia could help now that Rodi is out of the picture.

One issue with this plan is, ironically, the terrain the potentially encircled troops are located in... if the pocket is to be digested quickly in the face of Axis reinforcements, the mountains could severely slow down these efforts, tying down troops that could be needed on the main front. (Of course, if time is not an issue, they will become easy pickings due to a lack of supplies anyway, this could be sped up by an intensive bombing campaign, but there are barely enough bombers for the front line, let alone clean-up operations).

After all, this is all speculation, and some time should be taken for rest, and to consider the Axis' movements once the line has returned to it's former shape... Looking at the enemy units currently present, such an operation seems feasible, provided the Turkish Army is well rested. I am also one for keeping the Axis on it's toes with well-planned small-scale offensives, as long as the Turkish Army doesn't overextend to the point where the current Yeniceri line is in danger of falling.

 

[Wraith11B]

As the American Army Attache--and an infantryman--I note that Split is a mountainous province: That might slow down any sea-borne invasion. It could be an urban terrain, but I think it matches the color of mountain resources better than the others. Regardless, it's a powerful anchor to hold the end of the line, and we already have mountain troops (VUR HA!) in the area.

Can't recall, is the Italian navy's heavy units at the bottom of the sea? I thought that I recalled that their battlewagons had all been sunk by the British. If that's the case, our vessels can be deployed into the Adriatic to support those units, on a longer term basis.

It is also the case that no enemy units can make a crossing with enemy naval forces in the way: thus, a single destroyer squadron could prevent the enemy from crossing the Last Ditch line.

 

[diskoerekto]

I have to say, I really like @diskoerekto 's fighting spirit (also his paint-skills). The proposed forward line is an interesting proposal, as it would deal with the Air Base in Split, while not exposing too much of the front to planes based further away. Turkish planes based in Split would be right on the front line, giving them a significant advantage (Base proximity).

On the ground, encircling a couple more Divisions is always a good thing, if you succeed... therefor this plan should only be executed when the Yeniceri line is stable in the north, and all units are fully reinforced. Even then, it could possibly be advantageous to use a naval landing in the empty province next to Split (Makarska), to close the noose more quickly, though timing for such an operation would be critical to avoid that the landing troops get captured before a land offensive reaches them and they can take Split. The troops fresh from Saudi Arabia could help now that Rodi is out of the picture.

One issue with this plan is, ironically, the terrain the potentially encircled troops are located in... if the pocket is to be digested quickly in the face of Axis reinforcements, the mountains could severely slow down these efforts, tying down troops that could be needed on the main front. (Of course, if time is not an issue, they will become easy pickings due to a lack of supplies anyway, this could be sped up by an intensive bombing campaign, but there are barely enough bombers for the front line, let alone clean-up operations).

After all, this is all speculation, and some time should be taken for rest, and to consider the Axis' movements once the line has returned to it's former shape... Looking at the enemy units currently present, such an operation seems feasible, provided the Turkish Army is well rested. I am also one for keeping the Axis on it's toes with well-planned small-scale offensives, as long as the Turkish Army doesn't overextend to the point where the current Yeniceri line is in danger of falling.

As the American Army Attache--and an infantryman--I note that Split is a mountainous province: That might slow down any sea-borne invasion. It could be an urban terrain, but I think it matches the color of mountain resources better than the others. Regardless, it's a powerful anchor to hold the end of the line, and we already have mountain troops (VUR HA!) in the area.

Can't recall, is the Italian navy's heavy units at the bottom of the sea? I thought that I recalled that their battlewagons had all been sunk by the British. If that's the case, our vessels can be deployed into the Adriatic to support those units, on a longer term basis.

It is also the case that no enemy units can make a crossing with enemy naval forces in the way: thus, a single destroyer squadron could prevent the enemy from crossing the Last Ditch line.

We've got 3 cav div, Soviet exp rifle division, 1 mot of the 1 army reserve, the armor div of Wehib Pasha and the 4 other inf divs from the op KURT SÜRÜSÜ. Regarding we can hold the Yeniçeri line with the units that were there previously, we have 5 inf and 3 mobile (well one is a cav but still) divs for this operation. If the province behind Split (Zara) is undefended and Italian navy is nonexistent we can drop a div there to be able to attack Split from 3 directions or even encircle first and then destroy.

Something in the lines of 2 inf divs and the 1 mot take Vlasecina, Zenica and Prozor (maybe the mot does not fight and only move until the last province to keep speed up and avoid waiting days after a fight) which is shown by the blue arrow because blue is the color of peace and peace we will bring. With the other 2 inf divs from the op KURT SÜRÜSÜ and the arm div of Wehib Pasha we do the same from the south and take Korcula, Makarska and Zinj (again the fast division avoids fighting in order to keep its speed) which is shown by the red arrow because red is the fury of Wehib Pasha. Meanwhile the cav and soviet rifle division from the Saudi campaign makes a landfall to Zara and the cav div moves on to Knin shown by the yellow arrow because they are tempered in the desert.

When they are in position and able to attack again the Arm in Zinj supports and the inf & cav from the yellow force attacks and moves into Split destroying any forces there.

The inf in Makarska supports and the infs in Korcula and Metovic attacks and moves into Mostar; the mot in Prozor and the inf in Zenica support and the mountaineer commandos in Nevesinje moves into Konjic; the infs in Vlasenica and Rudo support and the mtn in Foca moves into Sarajevo destroying whatever divisions are left inside the pocket. VUR HA!

Later, all units move to the front line depicted in purple, get dug in, and the reserves are relieved.

had to find the rest of the map from a post from ages ago

 

[Bullfilter]

Very dedicated work @diskoerekto .

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

As of now we hold 4 provinces and the soviets sometimes hold the 5th one (nobody knows why) but AFAIK they lost it again lately. What I propose is also 5 province long. Instead of 2 hill 2 mountains it is 5 hills so slightly less defendible but not a huge difference. We will have 10 more provinces that includes Split and Sarajevo (which has 5 IC, 0.3 leadership, 3 manpower, 5 energy, 3 metal, 1 rares, some VP, air and naval bases and some AA installments among them)

Okay, taking out that airbase and clipping the Axis wings a little is probably worth an operation all to itself. Provided the Germans bugger off somewhere else, that is a target to shoot for above all else mentioned (the port isn't much interest since neither Italy nor turkey has much of a navy, we're good for resources and for VP since Persia and turkey itself are far away from the war) though everything else is a bonus. I dislike the dip in defensive terrain. We'd have to cross mountains and swap them for hills but provided the german army isn't around we should be okay...hmm...now it's about who will be there to fight us and will we have time to get rid of them and dig in before reinforcements show up?

The purple line is the proposed new front line. We can either follow that to envelop the divisions inside, or we can take it wide from the plains (if the speed advantage offsets turning wider, I'll prefer the hilly way but I'm the head of the mountain commando school, not armor) of Tuzla and Doboj south of the Sava river and than turn south. This is op has a bigger offensive phase than kurtlar, but at least there is no withdrawal phase so in total can be even shorter. We'll just settle there and count how many divisions we have taken as prisoners.

Infantry might be slower than you think crossing those mountains to meet the potentially dug in Italian troops on the other side. We'd need that naval landing, cavalry and some meat to smash through whilst fast units get shipped in from behind and scoop up. However, these flanking unit should will be vulnerable to whatever the enemy has behind what we can see...so we need some recognisance and spies to go check out what's lurking in the Italian all regions close to our border at the very least.

On the ground, encircling a couple more Divisions is always a good thing, if you succeed... therefor this plan should only be executed when the Yeniceri line is stable in the north, and all units are fully reinforced. Even then, it could possibly be advantageous to use a naval landing in the empty province next to Split (Makarska), to close the noose more quickly, though timing for such an operation would be critical to avoid that the landing troops get captured before a land offensive reaches them and they can take Split. The troops fresh from Saudi Arabia could help now that Rodi is out of the picture.

Agreed with the time window for operation. And with the naval landing.

One issue with this plan is, ironically, the terrain the potentially encircled troops are located in...

That is a worry of mine as well. We'd have to risk pretty much all our cav forces to give them the power to come up from behind and smash the Italians through the rear.

As the American Army Attache--and an infantryman--I note that Split is a mountainous province: That might slow down any sea-borne invasion. It could be an urban terrain, but I think it matches the color of mountain resources better than the others. Regardless, it's a powerful anchor to hold the end of the line, and we already have mountain troops (VUR HA!) in the area.

We do, and I think despite the air cover the Italians would have we could win such an engament. But not quickly, which is the problem because the operation demands a speed to it such that we can defeat everyone within this bubble we are creating and reach the new frontier and dig into it before anyone come see to intervene. And we should probably have a crisis retreat plan in place for what happens if the Germans do decide to send heavy tanks in to stop us. Unlikely as that might be.

Can't recall, is the Italian navy's heavy units at the bottom of the sea? I thought that I recalled that their battlewagons had all been sunk by the British. If that's the case, our vessels can be deployed into the Adriatic to support those units, on a longer term basis.

We think the majority of the Italian and german fleets are at the bottom of the sea. Italy definitely hasn't sent anything our way in a long time and from what we saw in France (especially France invading their Med islands!) and what we are seeing in Africa, they have not got the ships to reinforce anywhere with troops. I think they probably have some, but the British have them effectively stuck in port. The issue is, are any of those ships stuck in Adriatic facing ports? Are there any troops near those ships that could be ferried across? They might not be moving no way but should a large ish and underdefended Turkish flotilla sail past filled with troops....


Essentially, we all seem to think an operation into the region is worth it in regards to potential risks. But Sen need some more information of troops and ship depositions amongst the enemy, and a firmer plan for what our flankers are going to do. And how long this should all take should be estimated, because I expect the Axis will respond to this at least as promptly if not more so as last time (which could mean we have more than enough time or not much at all...).

Regardless, I am much more open to the idea now should the situation allow.

 

[Bullfilter]

And likewise @TheButterflyComposer and indeed @Wraith11B and @roverS3 . Between you all, you have basically done the Cabinet meeting arguments for me and I like the consensus position things seem to be coming to in terms of possible future offensive opportunities and timing.

A couple of addenda/thoughts:

• the suggested new line in one province longer, I think, than the current one;
• I think most of the Italian main fleet is indeed destroyed, but the Adriatic is in easy range of any NAV bombers, which I suspect they have and would be more dangerous than their fleet, which wouldn’t have decent air cover (every time I want to try to use my aircraft, the Hungarian fighter stack has at them);
• The KURT SURUSU and PLUS encirclements relied on open terrain for quick manoeuvre, and even then I only bagged one div each time;

But all that said, and with the possibility of a naval outflanking ploy, it certainly can sit in the safe that contains our contingency plans. To work, I think it needs a return to quiet in the Balkans, Germans to get dragged back into Russia over the summer, Romania to survive and the Soviets to bear the brunt of the German summer campaign, but without breaking badly. Not much to ask for!

 

[diskoerekto]

Very dedicated work @diskoerekto .

Between us, my boss AND my colleagues are on vacation so I'm alone in the office and had all the time in the world. Today I installed Victoria 2 too so maybe I'll even play and write an episode

Regardless, I am much more open to the idea now should the situation allow.

I'm happy that we agree not not only the general strokes but the details as well I think this has been a productive pre cabinet meeting

But all that said, and with the possibility of a naval outflanking ploy, it certainly can sit in the safe that contains our contingency plans. To work, I think it needs a return to quiet in the Balkans, Germans to get dragged back into Russia over the summer, Romania to survive and the Soviets to bear the brunt of the German summer campaign, but without breaking badly. Not much to ask for!

well if life gives us lemons we'll try to shove them up the arses of nazis piecemeal

EDIT: one addition would be; maybe, but just maybe, we can have a shot at open terrain to Budapest like OP KURT SÜRÜSÜ PLUS but of course the chance of that particular stars not aligning is bigger than they would.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Given Kelebek's temper has been mounting for some time, I expect the inevitable Godfather ending cong line of assasinations will be ever so slightly more spectacular and bloody than we were expecting. Giving him an espionage mission to the balkands and to the Adriatic coast to figure out troop movements and a long assassination list of people to kill should mellow him out a touch but lots of people shall die and there will be explosions.

Plus, this new operstion should it happen would be a miligary directive abd request for action, not a political assignment handed down from the cabinet like usual. Even though the cabinet usually makes good calls because its stuffed with ex-military types (sic author), the army itself needs to be able to do its own thing as well from time to time. This might have been one of the reasons why officers werent springing up as much and taking initiative.

 

[markkur]

Great update as usual.

At first Artun assumes this is all part of the game, still laughing, running around and spraying the Ambassador with insecticide as the old man gasps out his last.

Not exactly related but that scene made me recall a co-workers' antics.

He had quad-bypass surgery on his ticker and after whatever recovery time had passed, he was mowing his lawn; his wife was in the house. After a short time, she did not hear the mower and went outside to see what was up and found him sprawled on the ground, Of course she ran to him screaming and he then raised and began laughing.

How he survived that prank, is even more extraordinary.

 

[Bullfilter]

Great update as usual.

Thank you my friend.

How he survived that prank, is even more extraordinary.

A great prank, but ... you’re absolutely right . And the kicker: if it happened for real next time and she decided it was another prank? Boy who cried wolf!

 

[Bullfilter]

Given Kelebek's temper has been mounting for some time, I expect the inevitable Godfather ending cong line of assasinations will be ever so slightly more spectacular and bloody than we were expecting. Giving him an espionage mission to the balkands and to the Adriatic coast to figure out troop movements and a long assassination list of people to kill should mellow him out a touch but lots of people shall die and there will be explosions.

Plus, this new operstion should it happen would be a miligary directive abd request for action, not a political assignment handed down from the cabinet like usual. Even though the cabinet usually makes good calls because its stuffed with ex-military types (sic author), the army itself needs to be able to do its own thing as well from time to time. This might have been one of the reasons why officers werent springing up as much and taking initiative.

Poor Kelebek, forced into the boredom of Monaco in alt-1941: the Vegas of the period. Great performers, gaming tables, showgirls, Mafia enemies to size up for later wet ops, Fredo there to provide tragicomic relief, the high life in general, all in a glamorous oasis during a terrible war and with Cennet about to join in and bring him the next assignment ... poor guy! Remember, the amount happening of late has shortened the time span of the episodes a bit, so he hasn’t been stuck in the terrible conditions in Monaco for as long as it seems - getting to be a bit of an @El Pip slower than real time situation, though not quite a slow as The Lord of it would approve of.

Not sure how interesting the Balkans would be for Agent K at the moment - I think he will be at the centre of excitement soon enough. Need to wait for that Consulate to be opened first though and for Fredo to be installed as his nominal superior - mwahaha!

 

[Bullfilter]

Between us, my boss AND my colleagues are on vacation so I'm alone in the office and had all the time in the world. Today I installed Victoria 2 too so maybe I'll even play and write an episode

Good luck - I’m not telling!

I’m happy that we agree not not only the general strokes but the details as well I think this has been a productive pre cabinet meeting

Agreed - thanks all! Given this was your in-game character’s idea, does he have a name for it he would like to suggest?

well if life gives us lemons we'll try to shove them up the arses of nazis piecemeal

An excellent place to store them. Perhaps we should deploy some watermelons on some of those rear area ops’!

EDIT: one addition would be; maybe, but just maybe, we can have a shot at open terrain to Budapest like OP KURT SÜRÜSÜ PLUS but of course the chance of that particular stars not aligning is bigger than they would.

Sigh, while that plan can also remain in the safe, I suspect it may be one for when the Patriotic Front has truly turned and the Soviet Steamroller has begun to roll west.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Poor Kelebek, forced into the boredom of Monaco in alt-1941: the Vegas of the period. Great performers, gaming tables, showgirls, Mafia enemies to size up for later wet ops, Fredo there to provide tragicomic relief, the high life in general, all in a glamorous oasis during a terrible war and with Cennet about to join in and bring him the next assignment ... poor guy!

Exactly! How awful!

Think of how tedious a gambling den would be at this point. He knows who is cheating and why, and has no reason to play games for money, can't enjoy the base sin of humanity due to being very inhuman, can't kill any of the obvious baddies and spies lurking around, can't torture the imbecilic head of the casino and his upper staff to death for treating K poorly and is generally apathetic due to the fact that Turkish intelligence and the intelligence 'community' in general at this point in the war has stagnated to the point that they are all doing essentially nothing (except for the really awful services) except trying to make deals with petty crime lords and out drink and shag each other in various neutral locations throughout the world.

Remember, the amount happening of late has shortened the time span of the episodes a bit, so he hasn’t been stuck in the terrible conditions in Monaco for as long as it seems - getting to be a bit of an @El Pip slower than real time situation, though not quite a slow as The Lord of it would approve of.

The novelty of a terrible resort can wear thin quickly, especially if you live for war and action. K took a gamble helping turkey out this time instead of helping the german AI under codename Paradox, like he usually does. Mind you, some of this is his own fault for basically setting it up so he bypassed all of the so called intelligence chiefs and defence heads and reported directly to the president and the cabinet. A little like Darth Vader: he might have be supreme commander and head tons of operations and assaults but he also has to hang around a bunch of idiots distressingly often and got stuck on a ship too much.

Agreed - thanks all! Given this was your in-game character’s idea, does he have a name for it he would like to suggest?

Operation sequel? Since we're doing the same thing again, but bigger and with higher stakes?

 

[diskoerekto]

Good luck - I’m not telling!

There was a lot of work unfortunately and a migraine crisis so couldn’t even touch it :/

Agreed - thanks all! Given this was your in-game character’s idea, does he have a name for it he would like to suggest?

I’d suggest OP SOĞANLI ĆEVAPI because it’s a Bosnian (the area where we’re trying to liberate, a people with close connections to the Turkish) dish, and we will try to encapsulate the axis kufte between two pieces of bread, buttering it with some kajmak and ajvar, and consume altogether. And there's the fact that it will have an amphibious element to it hence the onions.

This image foreshadows we will destroy at leassts 5 divisions while 2 of them will escape the bag

An excellent place to store them. Perhaps we should deploy some watermelons on some of those rear area ops’!

farmers from all around go crazy at this piece of news:

Turkish farmers do not harbor very nice feelings for the Nazis

The novelty of a terrible resort can wear thin quickly, especially if you live for war and action. K took a gamble helping turkey out this time instead of helping the german AI under codename Paradox, like he usually does. Mind you, some of this is his own fault for basically setting it up so he bypassed all of the so called intelligence chiefs and defence heads and reported directly to the president and the cabinet. A little like Darth Vader: he might have be supreme commander and head tons of operations and assaults but he also has to hang around a bunch of idiots distressingly often and got stuck on a ship too much.

Maybe an adventure into the Vichy Syria who's been sending some agents our way and from there Vichy France? Final destination will be Berlin this way or that way but I'm wondering what will be the intermediate steps

 

[Bullfilter]

Haha - I’d like to see a few of the German hierarchy closely acquainted with some of those watermelons - the one on the truck for Goering: even more immediately effective than a cyanide capsule!

OK, the op now has a name: it chimes in with the earlier bratwurst gag as well! Let us hope one day we can give it a try!

Kelebek will get his chance for fun in due course: he just needs to master the most difficult skill of all for the demonic possessor of an earthbound meatsack: patience! It will be a tough challenge.

 

[markkur]

A great prank, but ... you’re absolutely right . And the kicker: if it happened for real next time and she decided it was another prank? Boy who cried wolf!

At the time, I was so angry with him...I doubt I even gave that important lesson a thought. Two heads ARE better than one.<L>

 

[nuclearslurpee]

Ah, so much going on in the war room these days! It is always good to have the capabilities to consider such daring operations, as it means the enemy has something to fear.

I think the AI is a little broken because GB won the sea war so quickly and easily the axis never really threatened any of their stuff bar Africa, and the italians can't reinforce their troops there any more because the britsh sank all their ships. So the GB AI is putting minimal effort (very slow and steady) into cleaning up africa from south to north, in the meantime sending meatshield puppets to hold the line or die clogging it up.

Eh, this is a pretty typical naval war between the Axis and UK for HoI3. Even with the early Japanese entry, the UK usually blows the German fleet out of the water since the AI is too stupid to keep their ships in port where they're safe, reserving them for important operations and not random patrols off the coast of Scapa Flow. After that, the Italians usually get sunk by CAGs and whatnot over the course of a year once they enter the war. Admittedly, this part is not too far from OTL reality.

Really the problem (besides the German naval AI) is that Germany doesn't build nearly enough subs to wage a six-year Battle of the Atlantic, and once the UK upgrades their DD ASW, there's no reason for the Allies to have a navy at all except in the Pacific, honestly.

But getting back on topic...nah, this is a pretty standard sea war, nothing overly quick about it IMO.

Some points made, but still, we managed to envelop and destroy what, 2-3 divisions? That's a lot of IC*days and manpower. In nearly every battle they had more (sometimes way more) casualties than us. After all said and done I would regard this op as a success. There were some calculated risks involved, and I of course can not know how Bulliflter felt when he was actually playing the game, but at no point had I the feeling that we'd lose a division or something.

There's also the possibility that maybe we prevented from the general line from breaking. That's more important than anything else.

If we sit back on our comfy line they get to choose when and where and with which well rested forces we are going to have to fight and try to defend against. If we keep them on their toes they will have less agency in what happens. Of course we have to wait until our units are fully reorganized resupplied at full strength and max dug in. After that must we strike.

By the way, my next op suggestion is this:

View attachment 394034

As of now we hold 4 provinces and the soviets sometimes hold the 5th one (nobody knows why) but AFAIK they lost it again lately. What I propose is also 5 province long. Instead of 2 hill 2 mountains it is 5 hills so slightly less defendible but not a huge difference. We will have 10 more provinces that includes Split and Sarajevo (which has 5 IC, 0.3 leadership, 3 manpower, 5 energy, 3 metal, 1 rares, some VP, air and naval bases and some AA installments among them)

The purple line is the proposed new front line. We can either follow that to envelop the divisions inside, or we can take it wide from the plains (if the speed advantage offsets turning wider, I'll prefer the hilly way but I'm the head of the mountain commando school, not armor) of Tuzla and Doboj south of the Sava river and than turn south. This is op has a bigger offensive phase than kurtlar, but at least there is no withdrawal phase so in total can be even shorter. We'll just settle there and count how many divisions we have taken as prisoners.

We should keep our momentum and we should be the side deciding the tempo even though they're stronger. That way we can prevent them from utilizing their full strength.

I fully support any plan backed up by top-tier MS Paint skills, such as this one!

 

[Bullfilter]

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