Talking Turkey: Alternate History from 1936

[Bullfilter]

True but there are always ways. It has been observes before that, alas for liberal western democracies, MPs are a gigantic security risk. If they know something, they want to tell you. Especially after a nice meal.

Could be. You can guess much of it. But some stuff is pretty meticulously guarded. I’ve seen things announced on the news that teams a couple of doors down were working on that I never had an inkling of, even when on the senior management team. Not so much classification (which I would have had) but need to know. Those things very rarely seemed to get out, to be fair.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Could be. You can guess much of it. But some stuff is pretty meticulously guarded. I’ve seen things announced on the news that teams a couple of doors down were working on that I never had an inkling of, even when on the senior management team. Not so much classification (which I would have had) but need to know. Those things very rarely seemed to get out, to be fair.

Security through obscurity and compartmentalized setups work quite well for the normal stuff and the serious stuff respectivly but...there's always the gap usually wormed through laziness. I recall in the old BBC Television centre that they had top notch front security for most of the time they were there. This could easily be avoided by going through the postroom.

Still, cover-ups and secrecy are still remarkably effective in the 21st century, when the entire population has an internet connected camera about their person at all times. Which makes the WWII stuff, whilst still impressive, rather less remarkable in comparison.

 

[diskoerekto]

In an alternate timeline, one of the very few places in the world where huge tanks could've been a thing seems to be Australia now that I think more about normal oceans and oceans of desert. No bridges to cross, no mud, nothing around for hundreds of miles, so a huge (maybe nuclear powered ) device that can house a lot of soldiers and carry a lot of punch. Something that one could've seen in the Fallout universe where the war never happened

Re: security oh boy I have a few stories to tell but we should be sitting in a bar instead. One of my stories seem to end a happy ending when top of the top brass start calling me on the phone to congratulate for my role in discovering a hole, but actually ends with a formal investigation and a travel ban of 2 years on me just in case

 

[Bullfilter]

In an alternate timeline, one of the very few places in the world where huge tanks could've been a thing seems to be Australia now that I think more about normal oceans and oceans of desert. No bridges to cross, no mud, nothing around for hundreds of miles, so a huge (maybe nuclear powered ) device that can house a lot of soldiers and carry a lot of punch. Something that one could've seen in the Fallout universe where the war never happened

Re: security oh boy I have a few stories to tell but we should be sitting in a bar instead. One of my stories seem to end a happy ending when top of the top brass start calling me on the phone to congratulate for my role in discovering a hole, but actually ends with a formal investigation and a travel ban of 2 years on me just in case

 

[stnylan]

Well I have now reached up to and including chapter 60. What skullduggery and plots lurk in Turkey's rise.

All in all Chapter 60 was a very enjoyable climax to a lot of plotting, and I look forward to seeing the aftermath, whilst we watch the world slide inexorably to war.
And I can but imagine how aggravating the Japanese influences have been.

 

[nuclearslurpee]

No? In my experiences, almost everyone studying history at my university had a Physcis or computing background. Literature is a bit more reclusive but generally speaking, British universities will at the very least introduce readers to economic and social theory as well as lit.

Because of how our education sysrem is structured, most generally don't specialise until university between humanties and sciences, but then you are taught how to be an academic in your chosen field, not stuffed full of knowledge to memorize and forget for your next exam.

That sounds very nice compared to what passes for an educational system in this country. Perhaps it's not freedom we need, but recolonization? Just for a little while, until we fix some of the problems over here and perhaps develop a greater appetite for tea over coffee?

That's odd, because I can build them as Germany in my AAR game, and I'm definitely not losing atm... I'm not running any mods that impact the underground resistance either. I think Japan and Italy can also build them, but I hadn't looked too deeply into it at the moment, but I will tomorrow if I get through my data entry muck.

Majors in factions can build Underground cells as well, but as far as I can tell that and the GIE ability to build cells are set off by some hardcoded internal game flag. If you play as China or Ethiopia for instance it is not possible, but you can make it possible if you add "activate_building = underground" to some tech and research it.

I'm not sure if Majors are able to build Underground cells if they don't have a faction member who has gone GIE, the wiki is disappointingly unclear on the exact mechanics.

Balancing is always an issue. We must remember that if the powers were actually simulated OTL proper, the US would hace 50% of the worlds industrial capscity, Russia would be essentially impossible to defeat and the Axis (ALL OF THEM) would be starving for resources after their first year and basically doomed no matter what they did by year three.

In fairness, the game mechanics themselves have a long way to go before balance becomes the deciding force. The whole naval game of HoI3, for starters, needs quite a bit of work to be even remotely realistic, although in fairness a good chunk of that (as always) is the very poor naval AI which among other things cannot understand the concept of keeping its ships in harbors well out of sight of enemy NAVs.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Well I have now reached up to and including chapter 60. What skullduggery and plots lurk in Turkey's rise.

All in all Chapter 60 was a very enjoyable climax to a lot of plotting, and I look forward to seeing the aftermath, whilst we watch the world slide inexorably to war.
And I can but imagine how aggravating the Japanese influences have been.

Chapter 60, chapter 60...*consults notes*

Hmm. We thought Japan's most irritating gesture in this war would be relation adjustment. How wrong we were...

Excitment over those proper tanks turned out to be perhaps a little premature.

That French agreement...in hindsight, perhaps quite important after all.

And the Godfather executions were great. My bloodbath was especially good. Pretty sure it ended with a car chase and running gun battle all the way back to Hungary.

All seems so long ago now. Much happened since then that no one could have predicted but several suspectsd.

 

[stnylan]

Hmm. We thought Japan's most irritating gesture in this war would be relation adjustment. How wrong we were...

I look forward to finding out.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

I look forward to finding out.

It's going to be good reading this all back when it's all over. What discussions and plans ended up happening, which ones were sucesses and failures etc.

 

[Bullfilter]

Well I have now reached up to and including chapter 60. What skullduggery and plots lurk in Turkey's rise.

All in all Chapter 60 was a very enjoyable climax to a lot of plotting, and I look forward to seeing the aftermath, whilst we watch the world slide inexorably to war.
And I can but imagine how aggravating the Japanese influences have been.

Thanks once again for the support and perseverance @stnylan . The plots will keep bubbling through, though their intensity ebbs and flows. That was certainly a climactic chapter of the Great Conspiracy. Events from there will twist and turn, sometimes surprisingly, in the Secret War and and on the ground in the alt world.

 

[Bullfilter]

It's going to be good reading this all back when it's all over. What discussions and plans ended up happening, which ones were sucesses and failures etc.

That’s very nice to hear, Mr Kelebek!

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

That’s very nice to hear, Mr Kelebek!

And the massive long goose chases too. We should probably complie a list actually, cos im pretty sure every regular commentator has gone on at least one or two since this started.

 

[El Pip]

Only up to Chapter 110 in my catchup and I've just realised what a dodgy name the Great Liberation War is for the conflict. It's the kind of name the Germans should have given to the war for PR purposes; liberating all the Ukrainians, Romanians, Greeks, Persians, etc from the misery of Soviet Communist oppression. (and replacing it with German Fascist oppression...)

The Turko-Soviet alliance can't really claim to be liberating anyone, it's just advertising the plan to annex the rest of Europe after the war. I know it doesn't matter, pretty much everyone in power in the TT world is a dribbling idiot (for instance I expect nothing to happen once the Turks inevitably annex Saudi) but it still a bad choice.

 

[Bullfilter]

Only up to Chapter 110 in my catchup and I've just realised what a dodgy name the Great Liberation War is for the conflict. It's the kind of name the Germans should have given to the war for PR purposes; liberating all the Ukrainians, Romanians, Greeks, Persians, etc from the misery of Soviet Communist oppression. (and replacing it with German Fascist oppression...)

The Turko-Soviet alliance can't really claim to be liberating anyone, it's just advertising the plan to annex the rest of Europe after the war. I know it doesn't matter, pretty much everyone in power in the TT world is a dribbling idiot (for instance I expect nothing to happen once the Turks inevitably annex Saudi) but it still a bad choice.

Ah, precisely my dear Lord El Pip. Understanding such intellectually desolate double-think is the first step on the path to dis-enlightenment. They will make their curtains not out of iron, but of lead. Liberation from all need to make those pesky decisions at an individual level.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

News Report: Paris, France. OTL Event (no game effect): France and Turkey sign a mutual assistance pact. France renounces all claims to the Republic of Hatay while Turkey promises aid to France in the event of aggression.

Hmm!

Only up to Chapter 110 in my catchup and I've just realised what a dodgy name the Great Liberation War is for the conflict. It's the kind of name the Germans should have given to the war for PR purposes; liberating all the Ukrainians, Romanians, Greeks, Persians, etc from the misery of Soviet Communist oppression. (and replacing it with German Fascist oppression...)

The Turko-Soviet alliance can't really claim to be liberating anyone, it's just advertising the plan to annex the rest of Europe after the war. I know it doesn't matter, pretty much everyone in power in the TT world is a dribbling idiot (for instance I expect nothing to happen once the Turks inevitably annex Saudi) but it still a bad choice.

I believe that was the intent. I mean, talk about a way to discredit both the Allies and Axis by doing it this way. A paternalistic, suspiciously socialist nation taking over all of its former realms (the peoples of which it infamously despised and tried to kill at every opportunity) by force right up to the Axis borders, and then turning round and siezing the empire's supply of oil as well. Then they say it was because these places were better off under them than the other two sides, that the axis were too evil and weak to do anything about it and the british actually quietly supported the whole thing in order to make their foriegn policy easier!

For the US and their public, what exactly should they take from this other than europe is a mess they shouldn't get involved with? Hopefully this keeps them off our backs for longer.

Ah, precisely my dear Lord El Pip. Understanding such intellectually desolate double-think is the first step on the path to dis-enlightenment. They will make their curtains not out of iron, but of lead. Liberation from all need to make those pesky decisions at an individual level.

True true. Plus if we can convince people that this is in fact a 'fourth' way where socialism and capitalism can thrive together, then more people would be willing to both trade with us and let us control such resource and strategic rich areas of the map.

 

[El Pip]

True true. Plus if we can convince people that this is in fact a 'fourth' way where socialism and capitalism can thrive together, then more people would be willing to both trade with us and let us control such resource and strategic rich areas of the map.

The danger of this 'Fourth Way' is that you might convince the wrong person. If Stalin finds out you actually want to blend socialism and capitalism then there be Soviet T-34s in the streets of Istanbul and Ankara and if you are very lucky there will be a new, more loyal, government in place. If you are not lucky then you could find yourself converted into the Turkish Soviet Socialist Republic and 'invited' to be annexed by the USSR.

One does not commit intellectual backsliding without consequence, not on Stalin's watch.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

The danger of this 'Fourth Way' is that you might convince the wrong person. If Stalin finds out you actually want to blend socialism and capitalism then there be Soviet T-34s in the streets of Istanbul and Ankara and if you are very lucky there will be a new, more loyal, government in place. If you are not lucky then you could find yourself converted into the Turkish Soviet Socialist Republic and 'invited' to be annexed by the USSR.

One does not commit intellectual backsliding without consequence, not on Stalin's watch.

Again, yes. However, it depends how the war carries out. If it ends like OTL with the Allies in the west and Soviets in the east, then we'll be safe for the moment. The allies are far stronger here (on paper at least) than in OTL, the Soviets are much weaker. They don't have the east locked down like they did RL, and Turkey would only have to appeal for allied aid (i.e. change sides again) for the americans to come running. A friendly power controlling the Balkans, the oil and the Med trade routes whilst also being a front against russia and dependant on US for help? Yum yum! Also a saving face thing for Britian in that they can donate their troublesome middle east and north african colonies and dependencies to the new power, but also hold substantial influence within that state through corporate interests.

Then when the cold war ends and theres no need for the west to prop up Turkey anymore, it collapses and they can go back to owning it themsevles or dealing with even weaker people in charge.

Or we can go full soviet state, or ger our own nukes from somewhere or the whole thing collapses in infamy after the war. Who knows? By then we'll have all personally cashed out and jetted off after the sun.

Edit: I have also decided to bite the bullet and get my first HOI game in the sales. Lets see how good the new one is hmm? Any advice/tips for general gameplay or starting location?

 

[nuclearslurpee]

Edit: I have also decided to bite the bullet and get my first HOI game in the sales. Lets see how good the new one is hmm? Any advice/tips for general gameplay or starting location?

You'll probably get a lot of doom-and-gloom in this part of the forum about the newest HoI, since us HoI3 diehards are still here for a reason after all.

But the general starting advice for any HoI game is to play as Germany and see how far you can get before dying horribly. You'll make plenty of mistakes to learn from and pick up enough about the game to be able to play any other country afterwards.

 

[Wraith11B]

The Italy tutorial was pretty decent for awhile, honestly. Even from go.

 

[Bullfilter]

Hmm!

A nice pick-up from way back! At least we did more for them than they ever did (in OTL or ATL) for Poland. Who they had an actuall alliance with.

I believe that was the intent. I mean, talk about a way to discredit both the Allies and Axis by doing it this way. A paternalistic, suspiciously socialist nation taking over all of its former realms (the peoples of which it infamously despised and tried to kill at every opportunity) by force right up to the Axis borders, and then turning round and siezing the empire's supply of oil as well. Then they say it was because these places were better off under them than the other two sides, that the axis were too evil and weak to do anything about it and the british actually quietly supported the whole thing in order to make their foriegn policy easier!

For the US and their public, what exactly should they take from this other than europe is a mess they shouldn't get involved with? Hopefully this keeps them off our backs for longer.

Exactly (said with no sense at all of irony ). As for the US? I really don't know if, when or how they will intervene in this war. We need them to start diverting the Japanese in the Far East!

True true. Plus if we can convince people that this is in fact a 'fourth' way where socialism and capitalism can thrive together, then more people would be willing to both trade with us and let us control such resource and strategic rich areas of the map.

There is only one true Path to Glory: Kemalism-Inonuism!

The danger of this 'Fourth Way' is that you might convince the wrong person. If Stalin finds out you actually want to blend socialism and capitalism then there be Soviet T-34s in the streets of Istanbul and Ankara and if you are very lucky there will be a new, more loyal, government in place. If you are not lucky then you could find yourself converted into the Turkish Soviet Socialist Republic and 'invited' to be annexed by the USSR.

One does not commit intellectual backsliding without consequence, not on Stalin's watch.

Fortunately, that will be beyond the scope of this AAR in terms of gameplay, if not of political speculation!

Again, yes. However, it depends how the war carries out. If it ends like OTL with the Allies in the west and Soviets in the east, then we'll be safe for the moment. The allies are far stronger here (on paper at least) than in OTL, the Soviets are much weaker. They don't have the east locked down like they did RL, and Turkey would only have to appeal for allied aid (i.e. change sides again) for the americans to come running. A friendly power controlling the Balkans, the oil and the Med trade routes whilst also being a front against russia and dependant on US for help? Yum yum! Also a saving face thing for Britian in that they can donate their troublesome middle east and north african colonies and dependencies to the new power, but also hold substantial influence within that state through corporate interests.

Then when the cold war ends and theres no need for the west to prop up Turkey anymore, it collapses and they can go back to owning it themsevles or dealing with even weaker people in charge.

Or we can go full soviet state, or ger our own nukes from somewhere or the whole thing collapses in infamy after the war. Who knows? By then we'll have all personally cashed out and jetted off after the sun.

Edit: I have also decided to bite the bullet and get my first HOI game in the sales. Lets see how good the new one is hmm? Any advice/tips for general gameplay or starting location?

Quite. However this show finally turns out, the speculative after-party will be a wild one!

You'll probably get a lot of doom-and-gloom in this part of the forum about the newest HoI, since us HoI3 diehards are still here for a reason after all.

But the general starting advice for any HoI game is to play as Germany and see how far you can get before dying horribly. You'll make plenty of mistakes to learn from and pick up enough about the game to be able to play any other country afterwards.

The Italy tutorial was pretty decent for awhile, honestly. Even from go.

Am looking forward to that @TheButterflyComposer. I'm already thinking about conjuring up some demonic presence to roam the streets of Rome in that one. Italy, you say? Fougeddaboudit!

All: Next chapter written, illustrated, just needs the usual publish and tidy-up. Sorry, @El Pip, more for you to work through