The biggest problem with CS2 at this point is that it's been out for two months and still has not gotten a patch that fundamentally solves anything.

[WaffleCheesebread]

Every patch solves *something*- in theory (industry is still not fixed and, quite frankly, is game breaking as of the latest patch causing millions in profits).

But nothing has fixed anything completely, or enough to make it feel like you're tangibly having a distinct experience from launch to now.

Education still feels loose and poorly timed out. Industry still feels random. Warnings and complaints from citizens still make little to no sense. City development is still very slow and clunky. Progression is still oddly paced and with unlocks in strange orders (no early farms, but mid rise rowhouses within minutes of starting the game). No beautification tools, and no current plans to implement any. No pedestrians actually using recreation or "doing anything" on the lots they visit. Lack of animations for tons of stuff around your city. Fires that spread endlessly out in circles with no visual but an icon on top of a tree that comes out of the fire completely unscathed. Snow that doesn't accumulate properly on a majority of surfaces with trees that don't have snow visible until the camera is 20 feet from them. People move into "Low Rent" housing and then complain the rent is high. Poor people move into the best house in the city and then complain the rent is high. And let's not forget, every single person rents- nobody owns anything.

Nothing feels "done" yet.

The next patch won't be until the game is nearly 3 months old, 1/4 of a year will have already passed, and we still have what feels like the first two weeks of an early access product.

The pace of fixes and updates is just too slow. It's like watching a meal get prepped with all the burners on low, and you're hungry, and not even the appetizers can come out because nothing's being focused on and everything's only getting a little seasoning here or a light nudge in the pan there. The smell is so good but it's not producing anything satisfying.

I'm wondering how much longer we'll have to wait, honestly. I would not describe any of the patches we've gotten yet as "major". They're all small hotfixes IMO.

 

[vvilku]

I feel you.

And I also think that nobody cares anymore, since the player base has dropped by 90% since the release. There are just a few people left playing, so probably nobody cares anymore.

Even this forum feels like an empty hall compared to what has been let's say a month ago.

 

[xdarth]

At least on Steam, every time I do a comparison, the number of players still playing CS1 is nearly the same as those playing CS2.

One would think if the new game was an improvement, only those who can't afford it, or have been excluded (Linux & Mac) would be the only ones left playing CS1, and one would think that number would be far fewer than what it is now.

Anyway it'll be interesting to see how long it'll take to fix this game.

 

[safe-keeper]

The pace of fixes and updates is just too slow. It's like watching a meal get prepped with all the burners on low, and you're hungry, and not even the appetizers can come out because nothing's being focused on and everything's only getting a little seasoning here or a light nudge in the pan there. The smell is so good but it's not producing anything satisfying.

I read this part in Richie's voice.

Seriously, though, this is the worrying part. It's one thing that the restaurant was forced to open for lunch before it should, and that Sydney left the pre-orders open, but there doesn't seem to be an urgency to get anything done. I'm sure the devs are hard at work behind the scenes, but the WotWs make it sound as if everything is fine and the game just needs some minor bug fixes and tweaks. I'm guessing maybe it's for marketing purposes, so as not to give a bad impression of the game for potential buyers, but yes, it's frustrating.

I have high hopes for CS2 and I know it can be a true classic, but yes, they need to start giving us some major updates soon.

 

[Troyen]

They did fix the garbage system. But that's only one of many so it's easy to forget.

 

[MJAnderson]

There are some fixes in but so much just doesn't work. I gave up trying...just hopped on to see if they were back from vacation yet. The worst part is that modders make the game and with everyone bailing there won't be a solid modding community which is what made CS1 shine. I think CO really screwed themselves with this release.

 

[Woody Red]

I'm still optimistic the game will improve within a few more updates. When do we expect the next patch do we know ?

 

[Collector78]

It's not like nothing was done. Some improvements were made.
Performance improved quite a lot. Pedestrian paths connected close to a crossing were bugged quite a lot (they still are, but not game disrupting anymore).
But apart from that I have to agree with you. Priorities are unclear. When reading the patch notes I hardly see anything that matches my priority list as a player.

What I mainly don't understand is why obvious bugs are not being solved.
For example the prison is having 0 inmates.
That should be an easy fix. Signature buildings having the wrong colors or not working at all is another one.
Just fix it and publish it. Why is everything included in big patches? Or is the versioning mechanism of the game that old-fashioned?

I understand that the traffic bugs need more time to test, but I suppose they are on everyone's priority list. Let's hope the next patch after the holidays brings some improvements in that area.

 

[KeiserWiliem]

The developers are very committed to the game and they are clearly there for the long run.
The game release was originally planned for 2020 (at last that's what they told us in one of the videos) but got delayed until 2023.
They plan on supporting the game for a decade. Unlike CS1, CS2 is build up from the ground to be more expandable in the future.

Once the modding support is activated and the first DLC start the release this game will look very different.
Over the years the hardware requirements will slowly shift from highend to midrange and at some point even to low end because 5 years from now the average hardware will be better while GPU drivers (for example DLSS or FSR) and the game will be more optimised.

It would have been a lot more honest of them to release the game as Early Access.

 

[Hyperion Systems]

I think that CO was caught between a rock and a hard place:

When they realized, that the 24th of October 2023 was to early, they already had made all the announcements and the countdown clock in CS1. They also likely got a lot of pressure from Paradox to release, considering that they already have been behind schedule quite a lot.

Then they realized, oh crap, our performance is not up to standards so they spent most of the dev ressources in an desperate attempt to make it somewhat playable.

As it turned out (and due to some really poor standard graphic settings) it was not enough and they rightfully got a lot of flak for it. So the first few patches where all about fixing performance - which they have achieved to some extent - and fixing crashes.

That however left them with very little time for addressing anything that isnt game breaking or performance related. To make matters worse, with the Christmas Holidays approaching (back then) and with the developer team very likely coming from months of hard crunch work, there is simple no way to do more bug fixes in the holiday period.

I would assume that several developers in fact had long overdue vacations that the company is both morally and legally required to honor. Not to mention that game developers like all people tend to work better when they enjoyed some good vacation time.


So yes, while the timing is obviously not ideal for all the reasons mentioned, it is what it is and I am looking forward to well rested developers working on the game in the upcoming weeks and months.

EDIT:
Cities Syklines 2 is a technological marvel, just compare loading times between it and CS1. It does much much more, yet loads much much faster. Yes, they probably spent a bit to much development ressources on that, but from a customer point of view, that is still good. As the user below me mentioned, CO is in for the long term, and this is where the technological advantages will begin to shine while the rough launch will be long forgotten.

I can also highly recommend this video because while it is about another game, the devs of Satisfactory talk a lot about how bug fixing in games work and how it is prioritised, offering some general truths about the development of software and games in particular.

 

[BoraBora]

The developers are very committed to the game and they are clearly there for the long run.
The game release was originally planned for 2020 (at last that's what they told us in one of the videos) but got delayed until 2023.

What they told us is they scratched the game in 2020 because it was a complete mess and they had to start over. Of course they're commited to the game: they wouldn't have any other source of revenue for years if they abandoned it. They still have to release the console version then a lot of DLCs.

They plan on supporting the game for a decade.

No, Mariina just said they technically could, not that they will.

Once the modding support is activated and the first DLC start the release this game will look very different.
Over the years the hardware requirements will slowly shift from highend to midrange and at some point even to low end because 5 years from now the average hardware will be better while GPU drivers (for example DLSS or FSR) and the game will be more optimised.

This whole "be patient, it'll get better" is getting really, really old, 2,5 months after release. That's the point of this topic. Official modding? No date. Optimization? No date. Balance? No date. Fixing major bugs? Mariina thinks "spring 2024" in the latest video.

It would have been a lot more honest of them to release the game as Early Access.

But they didn't so a roadmap and a lot more effective work is badly needed.

 

[tweety80]

Hmm, CO/Paradox may earn the most money via DLCs, but to do that, the game has to improve a lot.
-> I believe CO will improve the game further and iron out the CPU performance issues and at least the next 50 to 100 essential bugs before considering releasing a DLC.

At least, I hope so... because the current game is not done.

 

[Otis85402]

I have had lots of fun learning the game and the UI and how to efficiently build roads and zone and the basic game concepts. But frankly the game just BREAKS once you reach a certain size. It's a combination of lots of things, like you say - the land value bugs which make development of residential impossible, the empty industrial buildings, supply chains not working, the issues with mass transit like trams locking up, but honestly if I were to sum up my complaint in one sentence it would be:

THERE IS LITTLE TO NO DOCUMENTATION ON EXPECTED BEHAVIOR

If you read through these forums the posts are all the same. People stumbling through the dark trying to comprehend why the game is broken and why nothing they do works. It's hard to learn a new system when you feel like nothing you touch is actually hooked up to a working system. I would take a flawed game that basically works but if I were to put on my project manager hat here for a moment what I would say is that:

THERE IS NO MINIMUM VIABLE PRODUCT HERE YET.

In other words the game shouldn't have been launched in this state because it is broken. It is not viable. Obviously they know this, but I would settle for fixing gameplay bugs and documenting what expected behavior is supposed to be for various game mechanics. But there's none. There are no good tools to manage the game either but that's a separate complaint. If it were working, it wouldn't be as big an issue if there weren't good planning tools. What's there to plan for when the game is broken?

 

[JoeSchmuckatelliUSMC]

It seems to me that the feedback loop between Content Creators who just want pretty, the number of views they garner and game design has been detrimental to a good single player experience. The game seems to be what the sandbox CCs wanted to help them make videos... not the game players wanted.

It's not fun to watch someone else dither in real time over the kind of decisions that make the game fun.

Example: when you have limited funds and have to decide between building a school now or a police station. The single player experience should be filled with a bazillion little decisions that have consequences for how your city grows or develops.


But successful content creation doesn't highlight that; it only seeks to paint, or build the ultimate _________. Those videos are great for helping players, entertaining viewers and hyping the game - but the game should not have been designed around their wants.

It should have been designed with GAMEPLAY as the first priority and painterliness secondary.

I bought into all the hype about deep simulation - but then started getting concerned when I saw how the organic industries were presented. Gone were placeable buildings - instead we just define an area and stuff pops up. Yes - I know it's likely a placeholder for future DLC... but it was a fly in the early release ointment.

Now the 'cannot fail' guardrails mean there are no consequential decisions. Sure - there's some exploits like getting ahead of the education curve early, but otherwise? Very few challenges.

...

The gameplay flow also kind of bugs me. If you want to start out recreating modern day London or New York, the game supports that. But if you want to create a small community and watch it grow and expand organically? That's not really there.

I'd really like to see Farming, Logging and Gravel be early unlocks. Almost every small town that grows into a city started out as a farming community. Logging and gravel industries are some of the first developed as nearby towns need wood and roads.

People move in and the town grows and begins to have its own local industry. Rail is a huge part of that - and there should be many more sizes of railyard available - from single station and sidetrack cargo all the way up to the huge city commercial cargo hubs the game currently offers. Local farms get bought up and turned into residential and commercial areas, pushing farms further out (for the player via unlocked tiles). City planners and community leaders constantly have to balance space needs, old infrastructure and the need for new in the community. That should be part of the fun for the gameplay.

There's a real disconnect between the current assets and how population works. Population starts off small and grows - but all the assets are designed for medium to big cities. So if I know I'm starting out to build a London or New York - sure, I can just place the gigantic train station where I need it - but its really odd if I want to play any way other than 'Build a HUGE city as fast as you can'.

I dunno. Lost interest soon after launch. I'm waiting and watching. Hoping the next year addresses some of the issues and actually makes C:S2 fun to play.

 

[Collector78]

Gone were placeable buildings - instead we just define an area and stuff pops up.

Based on what do you have this expectation? It was never different in Cities Skylines

Almost every small town that grows into a city started out as a farming community.

Yes, 150 years ago indeed. Nowadays, cities are designed and build from scratch if they are intended to grow large. That is what this game has always been about

 

[safe-keeper]

The gameplay flow also kind of bugs me. If you want to start out recreating modern day London or New York, the game supports that. But if you want to create a small community and watch it grow and expand organically? That's not really there.

Yes, it seems you're meant to just zone a large city right away. If you want to create a small town, it takes a long time to really unlock anything and gameplay is just boring since you can't really do anything. You need to reach level 4 in order to really start playing the game.

I'd really like to see Farming, Logging and Gravel be early unlocks. Almost every small town that grows into a city started out as a farming community. Logging and gravel industries are some of the first developed as nearby towns need wood and roads.

Indeed. I have a strong impression the unlock/milestone system is the way it is to be beginner-friendly, but it doesn't make much sense and I'd love an option to start with different unlocks.

 

[SuspectPizza]

I see all of you guys making great points here, so I'd just like to chip in with my two cents. The progress has been kinda slow, I don't think anyone's gonna question that. However, in my opinion, it shows just how undercooked the game was at release - not how seemingly "slow" the devs are at releasing patches. There's a lot that needs to be done to bring the game to a "finished" state and it's gonna take some time still. The team is small - relatively speaking- and is working not only on fixing the game but also on releasing all the modding tools.

Plus the game's systems are tightly interconnected so each change to the codebase needs to be thoroughly tested to not introduce more bugs (like with the latest patch and the insane budget surplus/deficit). On the bright side, a lot of the bugs could have a common culprit and solving one issue might fix a lot of the others, especially when it comes to balancing the game.

Anyway, we're gonna have to wait and see how it goes, but this should've definitely been an Early Access game.

 

[BoraBora]

Plus the game's systems are tightly interconnected so each change to the codebase needs to be thoroughly tested to not introduce more bugs (like with the latest patch and the insane budget surplus/deficit).

Not just that: they can't break savegames so they're walking on thin ice, code-wise. Another good reason they should have released it as an early access.

 

[JoeSchmuckatelliUSMC]

Based on what do you have this expectation? It was never different in Cities Skylines

Should have specified - I was talking about Industries DLC and its analog in the base C:S2.

I don't like just zoning a specialized industry area and watching crap rando-spawn throughout the zone. I'd prefer being able to build my specialized industry up like we could in that DLC, with some improvements.

 

[anydaytv]

It seems to me that the feedback loop between Content Creators who just want pretty, the number of views they garner and game design has been detrimental to a good single player experience. The game seems to be what the sandbox CCs wanted to help them make videos... not the game players wanted.

It's not fun to watch someone else dither in real time over the kind of decisions that make the game fun.

Example: when you have limited funds and have to decide between building a school now or a police station. The single player experience should be filled with a bazillion little decisions that have consequences for how your city grows or develops.


But successful content creation doesn't highlight that; it only seeks to paint, or build the ultimate _________. Those videos are great for helping players, entertaining viewers and hyping the game - but the game should not have been designed around their wants.

It should have been designed with GAMEPLAY as the first priority and painterliness secondary.

Oh my god, seriously, yes.
I'm so glad someone said what I've been feeling, especially perusing YouTube.

It feels like all the city painters have had the red carpet rolled out for them and somewhere along the way both they and the designers of the game lost the plot on why City Skylines was successful - That your pretty picture cities that people love watching you build only garner interest because there's actual meaning behind it.

It just feels like someone totally flipped prioritization here.. I hope they understand that if the base of this rots out, those same painters aren't going to be sticking around with no one watching them.

I'm not saying that's entirely at play here, but you absolutely feel the influence now.