I didn't think the Japanese would be interested in Spain. There's an unexpected market.
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I didn't think the Japanese would be interested in Spain. There's an unexpected market.
Duritz - The Republican armoured division is based on a French pattern Light Mechanised Division. So 2 tank regiments, 1 recon regiment, 1 'Motor dragoon' regiment and 1 artillery regiment. About 200 tanks, 100 scout tanks/armoured cars and 1200 rifles in total, that would turn out to be tank heavy but to be fair everyone was tank heavy. However it's very short on actual men even by the standards of the time.
The Spanish version is fairly close to the French pattern but a bit less mechanised (bicycles not motorcycles, trucks not half-tracks, etc). Still, should be fun to see that lot running around Southern Spain.
Sir Humphrey - We have ex-Bolivian 6 tonner tanks instead! Surely that's enough for anybody?
Nathan Madien - The Japanese were more buyers than sellers, and even then it was normally the 'Buy one for evaluation' route (i.e. buy one, take it apart and copy the good ideas). Worked well for a few years but then word got around and Japan found it inexplicably difficult to buy new military toys, even before all the embargoes and boycotts.
The Spanish version is fairly close to the French pattern but a bit less mechanised (bicycles not motorcycles, trucks not half-tracks, etc). Still, should be fun to see that lot running around Southern Spain.
Sir Humphrey - We have ex-Bolivian 6 tonner tanks instead! Surely that's enough for anybody?
Nathan Madien - The Japanese were more buyers than sellers, and even then it was normally the 'Buy one for evaluation' route (i.e. buy one, take it apart and copy the good ideas). Worked well for a few years but then word got around and Japan found it inexplicably difficult to buy new military toys, even before all the embargoes and boycotts.
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Duritz - The Republican armoured division is based on a French pattern Light Mechanised Division. So 2 tank regiments, 1 recon regiment, 1 'Motor dragoon' regiment and 1 artillery regiment. About 200 tanks, 100 scout tanks/armoured cars and 1200 rifles in total, that would turn out to be tank heavy but to be fair everyone was tank heavy. However it's very short on actual men even by the standards of the time.
The Spanish version is fairly close to the French pattern but a bit less mechanised (bicycles not motorcycles, trucks not half-tracks, etc). Still, should be fun to see that lot running around Southern Spain.
Hmm, about what I expected but I'd disagree with your assessment it was tank heavy. An early war Panzer Div carried around 400 tanks and it did alright. Guderian was livid when Hitler cut them down from 4 battalions in two regiments to 3 battalions (sometimes only 2) in one regiment. I'd suggest that instead of tank heavy you should have said it was combined arms light!
Any plans for a few young French tankers to make an appearance as observers? De Gaulle would be a stretch but perhaps Juin or *deTassigne?
Dury.
* Spelling accuracy not guarenteed.
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Congratulations pippy, it's the fifth anniversary for this AAR!!!
and we're still only in the middle of the Spanish civil war, excellent!
later Caff
and we're still only in the middle of the Spanish civil war, excellent!
later Caff
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Wow! Has it really been five years? Congrats, El Pip!
This AAR has lasted longer than the average celebrity marriage.
This AAR has lasted longer than the average celebrity marriage.
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When he has a top of the page slot after it is written as normal?
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Oops!
I thought you did it on purpose for irony or comedic effect.
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Ah, I loves me the airframe porn. Thank goodness I was not a military pilot in the 30s. To have had to trust my life to some of those contraptions ...
Vann
Vann
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Considering one of the most advanced engineering devices was a slide rule, they were amazing designs, none of this Computer Aided Design and micro-processor stuff back then.
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First off, thanks for the reminder. I had no idea I'd reached the five year mark. Cliche though it is, time does fly. Then;
Duritz - Guderian was a lying thieving git, if he said the sky was blue the first thing I'd do is look up... no wait the fist thing I'd do is check my wallet. Then I'd see what colour the sky really was.
To the point, I'm not saying the French were unique in over tanking but by the end of the war everyone had slimmed down. Of course you could succeed with the tank heavy version, but there were better ways of fighting.
Nathan Madien - Excellent spot!
Vann the Red - Nice to see you back, glad to see there are some non-tank nuts out and about. And I agree some of the 1930s aircraft just don't look safe, better than some of the WW1 aircraft I suppose but that's not saying much!
Sir Humphrey - I don't think they even used sliderules to be honest. I remember the story of the original Merlin supercharger, it had been put together by judgement and experience not any calculation. When some calcs were done in 1939/1940 they managed to drag 30% more horsepower out of the same engine with a few re-designs to the supercharger.
I think very few aircraft designers even knew what a sliderule was, let alone used one!
Update - Tomorrow! Yes tomorrow, barely a couple of weeks after the last one.
Duritz - Guderian was a lying thieving git, if he said the sky was blue the first thing I'd do is look up... no wait the fist thing I'd do is check my wallet. Then I'd see what colour the sky really was.
To the point, I'm not saying the French were unique in over tanking but by the end of the war everyone had slimmed down. Of course you could succeed with the tank heavy version, but there were better ways of fighting.
Nathan Madien - Excellent spot!
Vann the Red - Nice to see you back, glad to see there are some non-tank nuts out and about. And I agree some of the 1930s aircraft just don't look safe, better than some of the WW1 aircraft I suppose but that's not saying much!
Sir Humphrey - I don't think they even used sliderules to be honest. I remember the story of the original Merlin supercharger, it had been put together by judgement and experience not any calculation. When some calcs were done in 1939/1940 they managed to drag 30% more horsepower out of the same engine with a few re-designs to the supercharger.
I think very few aircraft designers even knew what a sliderule was, let alone used one!
Update - Tomorrow! Yes tomorrow, barely a couple of weeks after the last one.
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What you're saying is that because Guderian legitimately bought published works on tank theory and then used them to write his own work in German, and had the temerity to actually go ahead and put them into practice (while the authors of the original works were hounded out of the military or sent to the army's equivalent of the Motor Registry in Swansea) he's a lying, thieving, git.
My dear chap, the facts just don't bear out your statements. As the saying goes, "All's fair in love and war!" Nobody owns military theory and Guderian never claimed to have invented tank warfare. The closest he ever got to lying, as far as I can see, is when he rewrote his British version of "Panzer Leader" to claim Liddell-Hart was a great influence on his work. Now there's a lying, thieving git!
That all said, I'll disagree the slimming down was necessary to make divisions more effective. Upping the other arms would have been just as effective as long as the command structure could cope with it... which I'll admit wasn't the case in the French Army in 1940.
Anyway, I can't wait for tomorrow... Hey, where's my wallet!
Dury.
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I might have more cause to believe Pikey Heniz if, for instance, he didn't claim to be the first German to reach the Atlantic when in fact all he'd seen was the very eastern edge of the English Channel. Thus he is either a liar or an idiot, either way damned if I'm going to respect him.
For an armoured division I agree you could increase the size of the other arms, but then your looking at 20,000 man + division, probably more. At that size the staff work in organising and co-ordination gets quite serious, hence why most armies of the time learnt instead to have smaller divisions grouped together in a Corps. That way your divisional officers can be busy fighting while the corps level officers do the staff work, for a large division the same people have to do both.
RobbieAB - Sorry I missed you, have a belated welcome to the thread.
For an armoured division I agree you could increase the size of the other arms, but then your looking at 20,000 man + division, probably more. At that size the staff work in organising and co-ordination gets quite serious, hence why most armies of the time learnt instead to have smaller divisions grouped together in a Corps. That way your divisional officers can be busy fighting while the corps level officers do the staff work, for a large division the same people have to do both.
RobbieAB - Sorry I missed you, have a belated welcome to the thread.
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Over here Guderian is popularly (and not by yours truly, not any more at least) known as the daddy of armoured warfare. He was probably as much a publicity hound as Dugout Doug, but in turn he was at the very least a good Officer and he did have a point with 'his' theories.
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El Pip insulting Guderian...I have to say I am not surprised, given his record of insulting other historical figures.
Why do I have two wallets all of a sudden?
Anyway, I can't wait for tomorrow... Hey, where's my wallet!
Why do I have two wallets all of a sudden?
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trekaddict - He was undoubtedly a good officer, but as you say it was his love of the limelight that mildly annoys me. That and the lying.
Nathan Madien - I must confess to a certain iconclastic tendency. However I think I balance it out with a properly British desire to support the underdog, hence why I defend Monty when people say he was the worst general in the world ever.
Nathan Madien - I must confess to a certain iconclastic tendency. However I think I balance it out with a properly British desire to support the underdog, hence why I defend Monty when people say he was the worst general in the world ever.
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We'll disagree on the armoured formations my good man but...
Too true, there were far worse British generals than Monty.
I too value the underdog, thus my need to support Neville Chamberlain in the face of outrageous accusations and abuse.
Still, I really can't see Monty as an underdog... would you care to try and defend Haig instead? Now he's an underdog!
But I digress, where's that update?
Dury
Too true, there were far worse British generals than Monty.
I too value the underdog, thus my need to support Neville Chamberlain in the face of outrageous accusations and abuse.
Still, I really can't see Monty as an underdog... would you care to try and defend Haig instead? Now he's an underdog!
But I digress, where's that update?
Dury
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