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The Butterfly Effect: A British AAR

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Nathan Madien - It's a tempting idea!

Duritz - So the best solution to stopping Communist getting into government is to support the side that already has Communists in government rather than the side that has no Communists in it. Is there some special Australian socialist logic I'm not getting here? :confused:

For instance "A lack of international aid, military setbacks and desparation are the path to Soviet control" is true, but that's also the path to the Republicans losing the war, also as OTL. And if they lose, the Monarchists win and so the whole communism question doesn't arise. Or are you just assuming that if the Monarchists win there will be an instant counter-revolution, because OTL says that really isn't very likely.

I would like to know the logic on this, because to be honest I'm struggling.

Kurt_Steiner - I may have to introduce super successful Manchesters just to spite you now! :D
 
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I must say I mostly had the Manchester take one for the team in order to get the Lancaster...
 
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El Pip said:
Duritz - So the best solution to stopping Communist getting into government is to support the side that already has Communists in government rather than the side that has no Communists in it. Is there some special Australian socialist logic I'm not getting here? :confused:

For instance "A lack of international aid, military setbacks and desparation are the path to Soviet control" is true, but that's also the path to the Republicans losing the war, also as OTL. And if they lose, the Monarchists win and so the whole communism question doesn't arise. Or are you just assuming that if the Monarchists win there will be an instant counter-revolution, because OTL says that really isn't very likely.

I would like to know the logic on this, because to be honest I'm struggling.
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Firstly, your statement that the Communists were part of the government is so simplistic that it can't fail but be misleading. Following your logic, the government of Winston Churchill during WWII OTL was a Labour government. But not to get side tracked...

My logic is this, if the international community continued to support the democratically elected regime of Spain and refuse aid to the rebels then a moderate left wing government will emerge from the Spanish Civil War. The British decision to back the rebels puts the whole thing in doubt.

Dury.
 
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El Pip said:
Kurt_Steiner - I may have to introduce super successful Manchesters just to spite you now! :D
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Wouldn't that be too ASB? :p
 
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Sir Humphrey - As I recall even you had things go horribly wrong for Eden in the Sacred Grove, I believe it ended before things had a chance to start going right.
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Thats going back a few years now.. ;)
 
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Duritz said:
Following your logic, the government of Winston Churchill during WWII OTL was a Labour government. But not to get side tracked...
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Domestically it was, and Britain experienced the hardest leftward shift of any democratic, developed country as a result, WWII Beveridge Report taking the country "halfway to Moscow" and all that.

Although I fear the track is now well and truly sided.
 
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Goodness, I'm glad it's not just me on the new board policies. I come here far less often and comment less than ever.

Fascinating update, as always, Pippy. It intrigues me, this weighing of compromises. I guess my mind doesn't work that way. Mayhaps that's why I studied poli sci instead of entering the field.

I'd vote on the poll, but I don't want another warning.

Ruddy
 
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trekaddict - I'll agree the Lancaster is a fine outcome, I'd just like to see the Manchester and Vulture work for the variety if nothing else.

Duritz - That I believe is the key issue. You assume that a moderate government is the only outcome of supporting the Republicans and I'm far from convinced. It is hardly unthinkable that a hard left government could have emerged, after all Caballero, the self appointed Spanish Lenin, did end up as Prime Minister in OTL. That doesn't mean they would have automatically gone communist or that a communist power grab was inevitable, just that it was possible and it's easy to see why that would make backing the Republicans an unattractive option.

So I don't think it's as cut and dried as you suggest, particularly for people at the time without the benefit of hindsight. It's hard enough to make sense of the dozens of factions now, how anybody understood what the hell was going on in the country at the time I've no idea.

Kurt_Steiner - Not really, a bit of re-directed engine development to get a better Vulture and a fully working Manchester will burst into life, along with a host of other Vulture aircraft that never got a chance. It's a wonderful thought. :cool:

Praetonia - An excellent point. If Churchill had paid a bit more attention to domestic matters, (i.e. just enough to appoint someone competent and keep an eye on them but not actually meddle) things could have been so much better. Indeed it would be win-win, all the time he spends on domestic matters is less time for him to meddle with the military and come up with wonderful 'contributions' like the Greek Campaign....

Vann the Red - I'm not around as much and I certainly don't comment as much as I used to, which is a shame as I know how much authors appreciate/need comments. But the lashing of red text around these days are somewhat off putting so I'm quieter these days.

That does mean I appreciate it all the more when someone does comment though. :)
 
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What, even when all we do is scream "UPDATE" all day long?!? :D

Dury.
 
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Overflight by PRU Spitfire at nought feet, 300 knots IAS

Pulling up sharply and zooming all the way to Angels One Five, the normally cheery moustachioed pilot shook his head grimly for a moment. The vast battlefield below him was silent and deserted.

"No sign of any activity on the entire front, friendly or enemy" he reported back via RT.

Waggling his wings in friendly greetings to anyone who might be able to see him, he roared back to base for a cider or two for tiffin... :cool:
 
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The radio crackled to life. "Rabbit Five, make your report."

Duritz took a final scan out the turrent of his Vickers Mark IV light tank before picking up the receiver. "Still no movement Sir. Am now at grid reference Red-One-Two but moving up into Red-One-Three."

"Roger that Rabbit Five, continue moving forward until contact is made. They've got to be out there somewhere."

"Yes Sir, will do. Rabbit Five out."

After taking another scan of the horizon with his field glasses, Duritz called down to the driver, "Alright Smith, move ahead slow, and keep us off that ridge. It may be quieter than my dead Aunt's last birthday party but I'm not taking chances in this contraption." He rapped his knuckles on the side of the turrent to make his point. When he thought of how little protection he had, he half expected his action to leave indents in the metal.

"Yes Sir." came the reply from the driver. The reconnaisance vehicle lurched forward from it's position and crept over the fields searching out signs of life. Sooner or later, Duritz knew they'd find something...

Dury.
 
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Still driving around in a Mark IV?:eek: Very last season. :ninja:
 
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Plenty of them in Flander's fields in 1940... unfortunately. :(

Dury.
 
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Duritz said:
Plenty of them in Flander's fields in 1940... unfortunately. :(

Dury.
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Ah, but what about Portugal and Spain as well? (To channel to Sharpe's song?) ;)
 
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Over the Hills and O'er the Main! ;)

Oh and O'er an update as well. ;)
 
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Hello Humphrey & Dury. Good to see the True Believers from Australia have not forgotten the important things in life.

Hopefully El Pip will be wrapping up his little diversion in Slovakia and returning to more wholesome themes, such as the tractors and tanks. At the risk of heresy, I would like him to have a look at how Japan is progressing. Given Germany is neutered and Britain appears to be emerging as the international Big Bad with a finger in every fracas, I would expect that Japan would get a more sympathetic or at least not as hostile response from the US if it was seen to be asserting itself in Asia as a bulwark against British Imperialism.

Omwards! To the end of the page, and updates....
 
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You warm my heart with your words "True Believers". I was but a wee young'un when Keating spoke those words in the auditorium of Bankstown Sports Club! Don't know if Humpy will appreciate the reference as much... :D

It will be an interesting reaction but I think the domestic reasons for US reactions to Japan will overpower any distrust brought on by the Grand Old Empire flexing her muscles in the Far East. Japanese immigration and blocks to foreign investment in China will remain powerful drivers of US public opinion... not to mention the strange affection the US seemed to have with the dictator Chang Kai Shek and his missus!

And so yes, onwards to the end of the page and to go from English period drama to English comedy...

"Would you like to go for a ride in my little tank?" ;)

Dury.
 
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