I hope the plotters and all foreign agents in Spain (supporting the fascists) are killed 
. Pip, now you have me rooting for your enemy
. Pip, now you have me rooting for your enemy - 1
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Wow...Britain backing the center-right coalition against the Popular Front...
Uncle Joe will not be happy. I wonder what this will mean for the governments of the Baltic States, Scandinavia, Romania, and Turkey...the prospect of Britain acting in defence of conservative government might encourage them to be less in fear of the Soviets...maybe...<goes off pondering the possibilities>
TheExecuter
Uncle Joe will not be happy. I wonder what this will mean for the governments of the Baltic States, Scandinavia, Romania, and Turkey...the prospect of Britain acting in defence of conservative government might encourage them to be less in fear of the Soviets...maybe...<goes off pondering the possibilities>
TheExecuter
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Acting together with Nazis to instigate a bloody Civil War...
Interesting, and all too plausible scenario in this timeline. I wonder how the rest of Europe will react once the situation escalates.
Interesting, and all too plausible scenario in this timeline. I wonder how the rest of Europe will react once the situation escalates.
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Inkana - Thank you very much sir. It appears our Spanish Civil Wars will be very different not only from reality but from each other.
GeneralHannibal - Now, now. Britain isn't supporting fascists, it's fighting against evil communists and trying to install a king. If that means temporarily siding with the Germans and fascists (before betraying them later ) then so be it.
TheExecuter - Uncle Joe may in fact be quite pleased, it's the perfect excuse for Spain to become a fully fledged communist state to 'fight the evil fascists'. What better way to unite a country behind a dodgy policy than an external foreign threat?
That said you have highlighted the down sides for the Soviets, not to mention the other matters Joe has on his mind which I hope to cover in the next update.
Fgorginator - Pip pip, old bean!
Karelian - Working together for a coup, no-one plans a war. If it's any reassurance MI6 does plan to double-cross the Nazi's as soon as possible, sadly they plan the same so things could get interesting.
The next update will cover Europe's reaction to the coup and it's aftermath.
GeneralHannibal - Now, now. Britain isn't supporting fascists, it's fighting against evil communists and trying to install a king. If that means temporarily siding with the Germans and fascists (before betraying them later
) then so be it.TheExecuter - Uncle Joe may in fact be quite pleased, it's the perfect excuse for Spain to become a fully fledged communist state to 'fight the evil fascists'. What better way to unite a country behind a dodgy policy than an external foreign threat?
That said you have highlighted the down sides for the Soviets, not to mention the other matters Joe has on his mind which I hope to cover in the next update.
Fgorginator - Pip pip, old bean!
Karelian - Working together for a coup, no-one plans a war. If it's any reassurance MI6 does plan to double-cross the Nazi's as soon as possible, sadly they plan the same so things could get interesting.
The next update will cover Europe's reaction to the coup and it's aftermath.
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Cripes ! The MI-6 might have pulled the chestnuts from the fire so the Abwehr can feast upon them ! Can this most unholy alliance, this conspiracy of the Admirals (Quex and Canaris) lead to anything but turmoil ? If Germany appears to be wooing Spain with the approval of London, I wonder if the French Cabinet can survive... Or will it take unilateral initiatives of its own ?
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El Pip said:
Undoubtedly. The absence of Hitler and a Germany altogether may or may not have something to do with that.
I can take a lesson from your writing. Perhaps I need to go a little more in-depth with mine.
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Ah, how easy it is to make concessions when others are paying the bills
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Atlantic Friend - While France will be as surprised as anyone about the coup, as I'm sure you know Germany and Italy were the main focus of the Deuxième Bureau's efforts, they will definitely be in the mood for decisive action. The problem will be what decisive action, and deciding that will prove tricky.
Inkana - You say that, yet its surprising how many 'alternate' histories have very similar events happening at very similar times.
As for taking hints from me about more detail, watch out! It's very easy to spend ages on very short periods of time, before you know it you've taken three updates to cover something that could be done in a paragraph. Still some people like the detail and I treat the entire exercise as a chance to study events and people that I don't know much about.
Arilou - Having other people make sacrifices is easy isn't it?
Inkana - You say that, yet its surprising how many 'alternate' histories have very similar events happening at very similar times.
As for taking hints from me about more detail, watch out! It's very easy to spend ages on very short periods of time, before you know it you've taken three updates to cover something that could be done in a paragraph. Still some people like the detail and I treat the entire exercise as a chance to study events and people that I don't know much about.
Arilou - Having other people make sacrifices is easy isn't it?
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I can't say I'm in any way pleased with this. Communists already clamping down on the government, Franco dead set on a coup and the future king already forced to make concessions. This is likely to be as hard as the civil war was if not worse. Let's hope that with British support, Javier will be so strong at the end, he will have no need for Franco's 'advice'. Better yet, I nominate him for public execution by guillotine for treason.
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Well Pip, it's a tangled web being woven in Iberia! An update from Uncle Joe is keenly anticipated, What!
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Just a Quick...
...Tally-Ho! and Well Done old chap!
Been buzzing around Spain recently in the old crate - mum's the word old boy - but I must say, I am looking forward to Stalin's apoplexy after hearing about the great iberian 'stitch-up'...
Cheers and chocks away again! :rofl:
...Tally-Ho! and Well Done old chap!
Been buzzing around Spain recently in the old crate - mum's the word old boy - but I must say, I am looking forward to Stalin's apoplexy after hearing about the great iberian 'stitch-up'...
Cheers and chocks away again! :rofl:
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Interesting. I shall have to ponder. Entertaining as always, Pippy.
Vann
Vann
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El Pip said:
With France ruled by a Coalition of parties, I wonder if the Spanish coup won't have it come unglued, with the most Anglophile wing being accused of having been London's willing dupes, and the most right- and left-wing elements gaining steam... It's a most interesting situation indeed !
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The Spanish Communist Party wasn't all that popular when the civil war begun, or even influential. The strongest far-left faction was the Iberian Anarchist Federation, FAI, and the 1-2million strong National Confederation of Workers, CNT.
It was only after the Soviets came to support the Republic with force when the communists became the leading faction.
Thereby, BOOOOO! The British government of this timeline has lost my support
Hopely the brave, syndicalist proletariat of Spain is able to break this rising wave of bourgeoisie menace!
It was only after the Soviets came to support the Republic with force when the communists became the leading faction.
Thereby, BOOOOO! The British government of this timeline has lost my support
Hopely the brave, syndicalist proletariat of Spain is able to break this rising wave of bourgeoisie menace!
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C&D - Iberia is not going at all well is it? After the comparative ease of the war with Italy I decided something needed to go wrong, after all there is nothing more boring than an AAR of constant success and perfect foresight is there?
Duritz - Uncle Joe's response has, in fact, already started as the next update will explain...
RAFspeak - The problem with stichups is they require the other side to co-operate, because if there are two rival attempts at stichups things can get very complicated indeed.
Vann the Red - Excellent that it needs pondering, complexity and moral ambiguity were my aims. As every choice has it's own down side I'm trying to convey the problems of choosing the 'least bad' option when your an outsider.
Atlantic Friend - The French coalition is built on ambition and electoral necessity, thus far the public acclaim from the Rhineland actions has seen it through and kept them popular. However trying to deal with the aftermath of that, how to withdraw troops from Germany while still looking strong and keeping allies on side is causing severe strain, Spain could well be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Kasakka - You are assuming the Soviets are acting historically, an entirely unsupported presumption. The anarchists weren't that influential either were they, didn't they argue for abstention not voting in the elections?
Now political ideology isn't my strong suite, but wouldn't the CNT have more in common with the socialists than the moderates? The descriptions of Anarchist run town during the Civil War seem to describe a collectivised and equality focused style of government that seems very like socialism (I think George Orwell even describes it as such). So wouldn't the FAI, CNT, etc be more likely to back men calling for socialist revolution than moderate republicans calling for slight change to the status quo?
Duritz - Uncle Joe's response has, in fact, already started as the next update will explain...
RAFspeak - The problem with stichups is they require the other side to co-operate, because if there are two rival attempts at stichups things can get very complicated indeed.
Vann the Red - Excellent that it needs pondering, complexity and moral ambiguity were my aims. As every choice has it's own down side I'm trying to convey the problems of choosing the 'least bad' option when your an outsider.
Atlantic Friend - The French coalition is built on ambition and electoral necessity, thus far the public acclaim from the Rhineland actions has seen it through and kept them popular. However trying to deal with the aftermath of that, how to withdraw troops from Germany while still looking strong and keeping allies on side is causing severe strain, Spain could well be the straw that breaks the camels back.
Kasakka - You are assuming the Soviets are acting historically, an entirely unsupported presumption. The anarchists weren't that influential either were they, didn't they argue for abstention not voting in the elections?
Now political ideology isn't my strong suite, but wouldn't the CNT have more in common with the socialists than the moderates? The descriptions of Anarchist run town during the Civil War seem to describe a collectivised and equality focused style of government that seems very like socialism (I think George Orwell even describes it as such). So wouldn't the FAI, CNT, etc be more likely to back men calling for socialist revolution than moderate republicans calling for slight change to the status quo?
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Not neccessarily. It is a common feature of far-left splinter groups that the WRONG revolution is usually considered worse than no Revolution at all
Remember, historically the CNT-FAI and Soviet-backed groups actually started fighting each other...
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El Pip said:
I've read somewhere that it is said that Hitler feared the day on which war would break out between Britain and Germany and Churchill rose to any position of power.
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El Pip said:
Nope. At this time the Communist Party was dominated by the idea that a strong central government needed to exist to give direction to the communal aspects of society. The CNT has much more in common with the anarchist branches of socialism that were being ruthlessly exterminated by the Moscow supported Communist Party. This all bit them in the ass, because the only place the CNT could get weapons was from Moscow (not even the Republican government was willing to arm the unions). So the CNT cannot trust the moderates because the moderates will not trust the CNT. The CNT will not trust the authoritarian socialists because they want to destroy the anarchists. Caught between a rock and a hard place...
TheExecuter
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This looks as though it could head for a three-way civil war, just when the Anglo-German grouping look as though they're winning - the lack of clarity of who will do what in the future government, could cause Franco and the Carlists to start fighting each other, letting the Republicans back into the fight.
SCW lasting until well into the main show?
SCW lasting until well into the main show?
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