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It makes sense given the classic if somewhat inaccurate 'no land fighting and no power blocs in europe unless we are running it' thing the british have been attempting for 500ish years.
Doesn't push for army build up and tech though really, especially armour classes above colonial light. It may well be the army's best chance of more funds and poltical points is bigging up the japanese army as much as possible...?

The British have always been keen to keep the Continent divided, but friendly. As I've seen it posited (and I agree with it; my source escapes me but I think it is based from Massey) is that the British (at least in the past) recognized that a continental power that exerts control over the entirety of the continent and can exploit the resources thus gained can overwhelm those pesky islands and make them a suzerainty.
 
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The British have always been keen to keep the Continent divided, but friendly. As I've seen it posited (and I agree with it; my source escapes me but I think it is based from Massey) is that the British (at least in the past) recognized that a continental power that exerts control over the entirety of the continent and can exploit the resources thus gained can overwhelm those pesky islands and make them a suzerainty.

It was certainly the case whenever there was someone competent running forgien affairs. Otherwise it was usually just ensuring that the french were brought low anyway they could. Forgien policy for england didn't really become important until Henry VIII because of that church of England thing. Before then, aside from france, no one really cared about the english. After, they still didn't really, but they moved onto every catholic nation's shitlist for constantly allying and funding protestant states in europe.
 
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The British have always been keen to keep the Continent divided, but friendly. As I've seen it posited (and I agree with it; my source escapes me but I think it is based from Massey) is that the British (at least in the past) recognized that a continental power that exerts control over the entirety of the continent and can exploit the resources thus gained can overwhelm those pesky islands and make them a suzerainty.

Something like that.

Britain generally supported the second largest power on the continent, to prevent anyone having outright dominance. That way Europeans are busy squabbling with each other, allowing Britain to expand into the rest of the world. The whole 'Splendid Isolation' thing.

And by and large it worked. Until it became more formalised in the shape of 'treaties and alliances'. Once your in, you cant get out. and when the dominoes start to fall . . .

Anyway, excellent update pippy. It always seems to be Naval updates that bring out your best writing. Succinct, to the point, with just the right amount of flare to keep the narrative moving along at a good pace.

If only we could find away to inject that last point into the whole AAR . . (speed it up I mean).

If we all had a whip round, you think we could convince you to drop this whole 'have a job' nonsense and persuade you to go writing full time?

Patreon is a thing ;)
 
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I was worried for a moment I may have to update as we've reached the bottom of the last page, luckily @Wraith11B has saved us from that eventuality. To celebrate, here is probably one of the most disgusting pictures on the internet;

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From Here. If you listen carefully I swear you can almost hear @trekaddict screaming at the mere thought of it.​

I think espeically with the great war being pulled back into the limelight with that army report, the navy might have a look back too, internally if at all possible (no one would want similar scrutiny the army got). The debate might be how to force a conclusive battle when not trapped in the med sea etc.
The Navy spent most of the 1920s raking over Jutland and the other battles, in the early 1930s there even a few complaints that they had spent too long doing so. In general however the correct lessons were learned, you can see it everything from the details on ship design (speed is now the bottom of the warship triad not the top) to command doctrine and the emphasis on initiative and aggressive action from light units.

The debate on how to force an enemy to action has been had for many centuries, the conclusion being that it is a bugger. That is unlikely to have changed. It's still some combination of misdirection, deception and threatening somewhere important so the enemy has to react. Or of course just hoping the enemy makes a mistake, which does happen but is not something anyone is going to rely on.

It makes sense given the classic if somewhat inaccurate 'no land fighting and no power blocs in europe unless we are running it' thing the british have been attempting for 500ish years.
Doesn't push for army build up and tech though really, especially armour classes above colonial light. It may well be the army's best chance of more funds and poltical points is bigging up the japanese army as much as possible...?
The army does want tanks and the politicians have brought into "Steel not Flesh" as the guiding principle, so there was (and will be) money to develop lots of tank, trucks and artillery. And of course the fact the Abyssinian War was such a surprise does add weight to the argument that Britain needs to cover unexpected contingencies, like having to send a decent force to the continent.

The British have always been keen to keep the Continent divided, but friendly. As I've seen it posited (and I agree with it; my source escapes me but I think it is based from Massey) is that the British (at least in the past) recognized that a continental power that exerts control over the entirety of the continent and can exploit the resources thus gained can overwhelm those pesky islands and make them a suzerainty.
In theory, perhaps, maybe. But I think that is Newcastle's Fallacy (the 18 Century Prime Minister not the City), a rationalisation by the Continentalist school of British foreign policy to justify an answer they had already determined. I don't think Domino theory really works, I've never seen anyone point at an actual example of it happening, and alliances and pacts are fairly fluid things, so actually achieving control over the entire continent is very difficult. Even if you do it is then very hard to actually gather together the resources of the continent, it turns out you do need a large army to control the continent (no-one is doing this voluntarily) which limits what you can pour into the Navy.

The Maritime school understood this, in part because they knew how much time and effort it would take to get from the decision "I want a big fleet to smash the Royal Navy" to actually being able to do that. The flip side was they also realised that the decision "Britain must have a big army" was also easier said than done, for a host of economic, social and practical reasons, none of which the Continentalist advocates ever really wanted to engage with. There is a reason Lord Newcastle is always near the bottom of the list of British Prime Minister.

It was certainly the case whenever there was someone competent running forgien affairs. Otherwise it was usually just ensuring that the french were brought low anyway they could. Forgien policy for england didn't really become important until Henry VIII because of that church of England thing. Before then, aside from france, no one really cared about the english. After, they still didn't really, but they moved onto every catholic nation's shitlist for constantly allying and funding protestant states in europe.
A classic but somewhat inaccurate summary. ;)

Something like that.

Britain generally supported the second largest power on the continent, to prevent anyone having outright dominance. That way Europeans are busy squabbling with each other, allowing Britain to expand into the rest of the world. The whole 'Splendid Isolation' thing.

And by and large it worked. Until it became more formalised in the shape of 'treaties and alliances'. Once your in, you cant get out. and when the dominoes start to fall . . .
I definitely go for this over the balance of power argument. Britain was never actually that fussed about that and perfidious Albion was never just a French insult, Allies were for using to achieve policy aims not to prop up some theoretical balance.

As you say, the Continent was something you had to keep distracted so you could do the important work of trade and making money elsewhere. I'm tempted to go with Sir Walter Raleigh's quote on this, but Themistocles did get there first and was a bit pithier "He who controls the sea controls everything."
Z3wSg01.gif


Anyway, excellent update pippy. It always seems to be Naval updates that bring out your best writing. Succinct, to the point, with just the right amount of flare to keep the narrative moving along at a good pace.

If only we could find away to inject that last point into the whole AAR . . (speed it up I mean).
I do like a nice naval update it is true and that probably comes through in the writing.

If we all had a whip round, you think we could convince you to drop this whole 'have a job' nonsense and persuade you to go writing full time?

Patreon is a thing ;)
I would be delighted to do that, but I fear we all know it is a dream too far.

As a halfway house, if someone could take my daughters away and return them only when they can discuss the Near Eastern Question with confidence and fluency, that would achieve a dramatic increase in writing speed at a much reduced cost.
Z3wSg01.gif
 
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A classic but somewhat inaccurate summary.

Welcome to history.

Just figuring out the borders of where England and Scotland were is difficult. England because for various reasons they sort of owned/ran bits of other countries over the centuries, and Scotland because, aside from the fluctuating borders with England, the kingdom was constantly in civil war, or trying to colonise ireland, or ran by two or three powerful leaders all running large parts of the country autonomous from each other...

But yes, the 'no connection to europe except for our benefit' master plan is a bit disingenuous, not least because for many centuries England claimed kingship of France as well as ran various bits of it. Sometimes the whole splendid isolation thing comes off as sour grapes from people who wanted to be a continental power themsevles and never quite managed it.
 
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Damnit, I didn't realize that it was the bottom of the page... I'm sorry gents!
 
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But yes, the 'no connection to europe except for our benefit' master plan is a bit disingenuous, not least because for many centuries England claimed kingship of France as well as ran various bits of it. Sometimes the whole splendid isolation thing comes off as sour grapes from people who wanted to be a continental power themsevles and never quite managed it.
I think you are confusing two entirely separate periods there. English kings did indeed occasionally have grandiose visions, but they were not the subject under discussion. British foreign policy can only start when there is a Britain, so Act of Union. (You may quibble about Union of the Crowns, but I say to you "Darien Expedition" which was very definitely an entirely Scottish bit of Foreign policy.)

While recognising that only the Sith deal in absolutes, I would say in general British foreign policy never aimed at Continental Power. There were large engagements on the Continent, even the occasional large army assembled and despatched, but colonial gains and trading concessions were the object not territory on the Continent

That said I don't think any British government has ever actually pursued Splendid Isolation as a real policy, certainly Salisbury didn't. It has always been known Britain has to keep an eye on Europe and engage as required and every government has done so. They may not have done so successfully, or picked the right power to engage with, but that is a different argument

Damnit, I didn't realize that it was the bottom of the page... I'm sorry gents!
Don't be sorry, you have brought me some more time, which is always welcomed. :)
 
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British foreign policy can only start when there is a Britain, so Act of Union. (You may quibble about Union of the Crowns, but I say to you "Darien Expedition" which was very definitely an entirely Scottish bit of Foreign policy.)

Ok so in that case, yeah Britian is fairly hands off regarding the continent most of the time because for most of british history (using that start date) they were a overseas trading empire and so aside from potential rivals and naval shit, there wasn't much point in Europe.

Aside from when european trade was a big factor, which sort of ebbs and flows in british history.
 
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one of the most disgusting pictures on the internet;

Me: "Oh looks like a relatively normal...

Me: *Sees rear turret*

Me: *Holding up crucifix* "DELIVER US FROM THIS GREAT EVIL!"
 
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Chapter CXXXVII: Dreams of a Dark Blue Sky - Part II
Chapter CXXXVII: Dreams of a Dark Blue Sky - Part II.

While the clash of fleets and grand battles may have dominated the public's attention, the Royal Navy were equally concerned with the prosaic requirements of trade protection; the business of ensuring that even in wartime Britain would receive it's imports and, almost as importantly, could despatch it's exports to the Empire and beyond. The main concern for Admiralty was not any individual enemy, deadly as they could be, but a co-ordinated 'knock out blow' against the British merchant marine and economic system. If the Germans surged their entire surface fleet out and operated them independently rather than as a single strong fleet, then the Royal Navy would not be able to put together enough fast task forces to hunt them all down in a reasonable period of time. If this surge was co-ordinated with an unrestricted U-boat warfare campaign, German light forces contesting the North Sea and coastal routes and concentrated aerial mining of the East Coast ports and the Thames Estuary, then the convoy system could collapse and force Britain to seek terms. The losses from this endeavour would be a crippling for the Germans, their light forces massacred and their capital units and raiders hunted down one-by-one, but fundamentally British planners assumed the Germans had a similar attitude to them; ships were for using and, if necessary, losing if the reward was worth it. From an Admiralty perspective if the sacrifice of a large chunk of the fleet would win the next war at (relatively) low cost in a few months then surely that was a price worth paying, particularly compared to the butcher's bill from the Great War. While there was a strong (and correct) suspicion in the Admiralty that this wasn't the case, that the German Navy was actually cautious and loss adverse, no-one was prepared to bet the future of the Empire on it. Therefore, in parallel to their work on ASDIC, minesweeping and fighting the RAF about what exactly Coastal Command was supposed to do, the Admiralty looked into how to counter the surface raiding threat.

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HMS Wellington serving with the New Zealand Division of the Royal Navy (the precursor to the Royal New Zealand Navy) sailing into Milford Sound, the fleet's preferred anchorage at the lower end of New Zealand's South Island. A Grimsby class sloop-of-war she was typical of the Royal Navy's post Great War escort fleet. Her seemingly archaic title, sloop-of-war, was necessary to distinguish her wartime role as a small warship intended for convoy escort, as opposed to the minesweeping sloops the Royal Navy was also building. The pair of 4.7" main guns were as much about impressing people in her peacetime 'colonial gunboat' role as any wartime utility, her main contribution to any convoy would be her Type 124 ASDIC set, depth charge launchers and, if one was feeling generous, the 3" AA gun could at least threaten any aerial reconnaissance that got too close. What none of the Fleet's sloops-of-war or other escorts could do was fight off a determined surface raider, at best they could hope to buy time for the convoy to scatter while dying as slowly as possible.

The initial ship of choice for this role had been the County class cruiser, explicitly designed for the trade protection role they emphasised endurance, fire-power and efficient cruising speed at the expense of armour. After the brief dalliance with the 'Class B' Country cruisers of the York class (which proved that going from eight to six 8" guns did not save enough money or tonnage to be worth the effort) the Admiralty had reverted to it's historic belief that quantity had a quality all of it's own. Therefore in the 1930 London Naval Treaty negotiations, Britain traded away the rest of it's heavy cruiser allowance in exchange for an increase in her light cruiser tonnage, paving the way for the Leander and Arethusa class of 6" cruisers. Where a County could expect to defeat most commerce raiders it encountered, the light cruisers were intended to sink auxiliary cruisers but merely deter (or damage) any proper cruisers attempting to raid. It must be remembered that for a lone ship operating far from home even moderate damage could leave it a sitting duck for the hunting groups, so for a wise raider discretion was always the better part of valour. Of course one counter would be for raiders to operate in groups and pool their firepower, but from the Admiralty perspective forcing the enemy to operate in fewer, if more dangerous, raiding groups was in itself a strategic win. Ironically it was shortly after the 1930 naval treaty was signed that the Deutschland 'pocket-battleships' started taking shape on the slipway, with their long range and large 11" guns they threatened to ruin this careful analysis. As British naval intelligence began to fill in the gaps the ships became less fearsome, particularly given their relatively slow speed, but it was still felt a three ship squadron of the new light cruisers would be required to hunt one down. Concentrating the hunters meant less ocean could be covered and so the problem became finding the enemy, the seaplanes on the cruisers were not going to do the job (being slow and short ranged) and so the idea of the trade protection carrier was born.

The trade protection carrier concept took the Fleet Air Arm mission of 'Find, Fix and Strike' and applied it to the problem of surface raiders. As was typical of Admiralty thinking around naval air power, the carrier was the support vessel and not the main 'ship sinking' unit, so the focus was the 'Find and Fix' part of the mission. This meant it was intended for the carriers to locate and slow the enemy surface raiders so the hunting groups could catch and destroy them, additional strikes could further damage the raider so even a squadron of light Arethusa class cruisers would be able to despatch an 11" armed Deutschland. Intended for deep ocean work in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans there was no need for fighters, so the designs aimed for a relatively small air group, just enough aircraft for the required search pattern and for a strike capable of severely damaging a cruiser sized warship. With a mission to operate alongside the cruiser hunting groups, the Admiralty had identified the need for five such carriers; one each for the four main Stations (China, East Indies, North America & West Indies and South Atlantic) and one as spare to cover refits, this was rounded up to six, the extra ship earmarked to serve as the training carrier and allow Furious to be paid off. As was typical there were multiple sketch designs produced, ranging from very light sub-10,000tonne designs through to Ark Royal sized carriers, each with their own problems and supporters. The assessment process was still underway when the Abyssinian War rudely interrupted the deliberations.

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The Japanese carrier Ryūjō on manoeuvres with the Japanese Combined Fleet. At a original declared displacement of just 8,000 tonnes she was the IJN's attempt to exploit a loophole of the Washington Naval Treaty; carriers were defined as having a minimum displacement of 10,000 tonnes, in theory allowing the signatories to build an unlimited number of 9,999 tonne aircraft carrying ships. Unsurprisingly the London Treaty closed this loophole, leaving the IJN with a flush-decked, top heavy and very unstable ship that would need two major rebuilds in less than two years of service. Finally ending up as a 10,500 tonne ship she could operate 36 aircraft from her double hangar deck and, when acting as a transport, squeeze in 48, a comparable air wing to that of the 22,000 armoured box carrier Admiral Henderson had been promoting. While few in the Admiralty wanted something as badly compromised as the Ryūjō, the general concept of a light carrier that still carried a worthwhile air group remained of interest.

When the post-war Admiralty returned to look at trade protection much had changed, there was a great deal more practical carrier warfare experience, a changed strategic situation and some concerning new threats. Chief among the latter, at least from the perspective of the trade protection carrier, was the 'battlecruiser building battle', or more precisely Germany's new Scharnhorst-class of battlecruisers. These were a concern not because of their fighting power per se, formidable though they would prove to be, but due to their speed and the number of them being built. Given their expected 30knot+ speed it would take another battlecruiser to chase and trap one and, while there was a degree of confidence that a Swiftsure would prevail in a one-on-one battle, it would be a tough fight. As the Royal Navy had not achieved it's position of pre-eminence by fighting fairly, this was not an attractive proposition and so the option of sending out a pair of battlecruisers was considered. While tactically this worked it merely moved the problem to the issue of numbers; with four Scharnhorsts on the slips not enough Swiftsures were being built and of the existing battlecruisers only the rebuilt Hood would be suitable; the partially-modernised Repulse was too slow and Renown's refit had been cancelled. While this could be solved by a combination of extra Swiftsures and refits to Repulse and Renown, this would take funds and shipbuilding capacity away from the King George V battleship programme, as those ships were deemed vital to deal with the threat from the Japanese Navy this was not an option. The breakthrough was the idea of the battlecruiser-carrier hunting squadron, an initial airstrike from the carrier would weaken the enemy, allowing a single Swiftsure to fight at an advantage. It was soon realised that offloading all scouting and spotting duties onto the carrier's airwing would allow the removal of the seaplanes from the Swiftsure and putting the tonnage and space to better use, making the Swiftsures more formidable fighters while also benefiting from the longer scout radius of a carrier aircraft over a catapult launched floatplane. It is interesting to note that even at this stage the Admiralty Board and Naval Staff could not, or perhaps would not, consider the possibility of the carrier sinking a Scharnhorst on its own.

This new mission was added to the requirements for the trade protection carrier design, at a stroke the minimum air group shot up to three squadrons; two torpedo-strike-reconnaissance (Swordfish) and one of dive-bombers (Skua), this being the minimum felt capable of threatening a capital ship. This ruled out many of the smaller concept designs, a decision which dovetailed with the lessons from the Abyssinian War; amongst other things that conflict had shown that air group attrition was far higher than the RAF had been assuming, not so much from losses as the need for repairs, maintenance and general fettling to keep up a high operational tempo. While the air wing was the same size as the proposed armoured box carriers and both designs would share a single hangar deck, the trade protection carrier would be significantly lighter; stripping off the deck and side armour both saved tonnage directly and allowed a much more lightly built hull structure. Removing such a large amount of top weight also improved stability and allowed a more efficient hull form, so the design could devote less space to machinery while still achieving better endurance and a 32knot top speed. While an unarmed design that relied on her escorts for self defence was briefly discussed, this was deemed a step too far and a respectable (for the time) AA fit of eight twin 4"/45 guns would be installed, back up by four octuple 2-pdr 'pom-poms'. While nominally dual-purpose the 4"/45 was very much an anti-aircraft gun that could also fire at surface targets, the opposite of the more surface focused 4.5" calibre guns that had been fitted on the Ark Royal class. This change reflected another lesson learned; it was actually quite hard for a surface ship to sneak up on an alert aircraft carrier that was running search patterns, so the belt armour and surface optimised gunnery of previous carriers armament could afford to focus on the aerial threat. Perhaps the only really controversial design choice on the ship was the space and tonnage provision made for extensive 'additional radio and telegraphic masts and aerials' to be mounted high up on the ship. This was of course a deliberately obtuse reference to the possible future fitting of RDF on the ship, the actual sets still being under experimental development with the Royal Navy Signal School at the time. With hindsight this was a wise precaution, but at the time the entire armoured vs large carrier debate essentially hinged on whether RDF would work at sea and provide enough warning, so this decision was seen by some as the Admiralty pre-judging the issue. The resulting design came out at just under 15,000 tonnes standard with a projected cost of around £1.8million and was christened the Unicorn-class, the Admiralty aimed to build two a year in the each of the next three naval estimates until the target strength was reached.

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Two of the new Unicorn-class light fleet carriers, HMS Unicorn and HMS Raven, under construction at Harland and Wolff's Musgrave shipyard in Belfast. The decision to give two carrier contracts to Harland and Wolff was not an entirely commercial decision, as the economic crisis south of the border grew ever worse it was felt that the Northern Irish economy was in need of a boost to make up for the declining cross-border trade. Several thousand ship-building jobs fit the bill quite nicely, so the government indicated that a Naval Estimate which met this requirement would have an easier passage through Parliament. H&W themselves were informed that if they committed to moving over to welded construction, a requirement as the Unicorns were to be mostly welded, then they would be eligible for government assistance with the training and transition costs. These discussions produced the desired result and the orders were duly made, to avoid overloading the yard the orders were staggered, Unicorn being paid for from the 1937 Estimate and Raven appearing in the 1938 budget.

Fisher and the large carrier group were happy enough with the 'half-pint Arks' as the ships were soon dubbed, once the raiders were hunted down a Unicorn-class would easily slot into their conception of fleet carrier warfare. More surprisingly Henderson's armoured carrier faction also made minimal complaint, while they were certain such an un-armoured ship should never be let near a fleet battle, they believed it could still serve a role in the vision of carrier operations. The armoured carriers were going to be short on hangar space, a necessary sacrifice to achieve the desired armour protection on the tonnage, but extended carrier operations required a regular resupply of aircraft and extensive repair facilities. Hence the idea of the maintenance carrier, an aircraft depot ship to store spare aircraft and provide the maintenance and overhaul space needed to keep a carrier air wing operational. Ideally Henderson would have had them armoured like the fleet carriers, so they could serve as spare decks in a crisis, but that aside the Unicorn class met his requirements. Designed for extended operations in the deep ocean, the class had extensive maintenance and repair areas, deep magazines and aviation fuel tanks and storage space allocated for a large number of 'boxed up' spare aircraft. With the two carrier factions within the Navy at least reconciled to the decision and a popular political box ticked ('trade protection' always played well in Parliament) the additional estimate allowing for their procurement was achieved and the Admiralty felt it had earned it's summer break. Unfortunately this was not to be the case as a previously neglected issue, one acknowledged as important but not urgent, had been shoved back into the limelight during the estimate debate. It was the vexed question of what was to be done with the Italian cruisers that had been acquired after the Abyssinian War. The issue was not the ships themselves, but what had been found inside them. But before we delve into those particular depths we must turn our attention away from weapons of war to the far grubbier world of politics, voters and elections.

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Notes:
A relatively svelte carrier update done. Now I confess it did spend quite a while talking about British and German trade warfare doctrine, but if you didn't know about that how would the idea of trade protection carrier make sense? The British concern about the 'Knock out blow' is OTL, it was how the Admiralty would have fought the Battle of the Atlantic from the German side so they planned just in case it happened. But it was always too much of a gamble for the German navy, certainly for Raeder, and would have required co-operation and co-ordination with the Luftwaffe, so luckily it never happened.

OTL there were British plans for some fairly tiny trade protection carriers (15 / 18 aircraft) , but with tonnage limits no-one really wanted to 'waste' tonnage on them. Several did survive into various Royal Navy rearmament plans, but hit the problem of 3rd Sea Lord Henderson wanting them to be armoured decked so they could act as a backup fleet carriers. That left the 2/3rds the size of an Illustrious, 3/4 the cost but only 1/2 the airgroup. Unsurprisingly they were soon killed off. Here no treaties, no need to armour everything so different result.

The thinking behind the maintenance carrier to support the armoured carrier is real and resulted in the OTL HMS Unicorn, which due to the demands of war (and too much worry about the naval treaties) wasn't finished till 1943 and never got a chance to actually serve in the intended role. OTL Unicorn was double hangared, armoured deck, a bit rough and ready as an actual carrier, so not much like the Butterfly version. Working out the tonnage and cost for the alt-Unicorn class is a bit finger in the air, but it's that sort of magnitude. Half of an Ark Royal is a bit of a simplification but take the top hangar off, remove the belt armour, change the guns and you'd be close.

Photo is of two Majestic class carriers under construction at H&W, Magnificient and Powerful. Coincidentally both ships ended up serving with the Royal Canadian Navy post-war, back when Canada had carriers. They are about the right tonnage and dimensions so good enough as an indication.
 
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If the Germans surged their entire surface fleet out and operated them independently rather than as a single strong fleet, then the Royal Navy would not be able to put together enough fast task forces to hunt them all down in a reasonable period of time.
The losses from this endeavour would be a crippling for the Germans, their light forces massacred and their capital units and raiders hunted down one-by-one, but fundamentally British planners assumed the Germans had a similar attitude to them; ships were for using and, if necessary, losing if the reward was worth it.
no-one was prepared to bet the future of the Empire on it.

All interesting but yeah, this is more the thing you could pull off in a video strategy game rather than actual warfare...

the idea of the trade protection carrier was born.

the Admiralty had identified the need for five such carriers; one each for the four main Stations (China, East Indies, North America & West Indies and South Atlantic) and one as spare to cover refits, this was rounded up to six, the extra ship earmarked to serve as the training carrier and allow Furious to be paid off.

Sounds fairly expensive but makes sense since it covers the whole worlds oceans.

As the Royal Navy had not achieved it's position of pre-eminence by fighting fairly,

Well i don't know about that. Depends when you think they became preeminent. Was it when they adopted the two power strategy or after waterloo or sometime before? Before then, they were ofteb outnumbered in fights and often in worse or at least less advanced ships (this was true at least until the dutch burnt down lots of the royal navy twice over a series of conflicts).

Its more like they kept their preeminence by not fighting fair and throwing far more resources at their problems than their rivals could hope to match, which worked against everyone but the US.

of the existing battlecruisers only the rebuilt Hood would be suitable;

Getting the Hood murdered in a supporting role in convoy defence? Courageous choice...

the idea of the battlecruiser-carrier hunting squadron

Lots of ideas today! Someone clearly has too much imagination at the navy and must be shot at once (and then glorified ever after).

The resulting design came out at just under 15,000 tonnes standard with a projected cost of around £1.8million and was christened the Unicorn-class, the Admiralty aimed to build two a year in the each of the next three naval estimates until the target strength was reached.

as the economic crisis south of the border grew ever worse it was felt that the Northern Irish economy was in need of a boost to make up for the declining cross-border trade.

GBs doing well in order to buy essentially anirher entire new fleet of carriers. Ireland must be feeling the punch of sanctions by now...especially as their only hope for help aside from backing down would come from the US (isolationists) or the League of Nations (which suddenly became busy with more important things).

It was the vexed question of what was to be done with the Italian cruisers that had been acquired after the Abyssinian War. The issue was not the ships themselves, but what had been found inside them.

Inside them? Did the italians just leave everything in the drawers when they handed them over or is this some new naval marvel in the hull?
 
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Its more like they kept their preeminence by not fighting fair and throwing far more resources at their problems than their rivals could hope to match, which worked against everyone but the US.

To be honest, only reason why this doesn't work against Americans, as Americans cheat with exploits such as Double_resources and editing /factory_outputx10 to x101 /joke
 
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The issue was not the ships themselves, but what had been found inside them

"How dare you leave me with such a cliffhanger!"

Vibrates in anticipation
 
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"How dare you leave me with such a cliffhanger!"

Vibrates in anticipation

Not just that but we were promised a naval yard update and explination only for a brief mention, and that seems moreso to smack down the irish again than anything else! I am interested in the Italian job though, because at this time it could be anything: telegram partially decoded from germany, report on italian factories or military, a new hull or interior design, space inside the ship that clearly would hold or mount new weapons or explosives, electronic stuff of any kind, chemical weapons left over from ethopia that they're hoping the British will quietly get rid off (for some reason)...

...a ridiculous design for an empire state building sized slyscraper next to the Vatican...really, Mussolini could have tons in that boat that someone forgot about or misplace or even planted there.
 
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So, no Audacity et al, but Unicorn/s on the way. I like it. Post WW2 they may have some long lasting future with other navies.

F053_Spittur_151Sqn.jpg

From Here. If you listen carefully I swear you can almost hear @trekaddict screaming at the mere thought of it.​

What the deuze...
 
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All interesting but yeah, this is more the thing you could pull off in a video strategy game rather than actual warfare...
The Admiralty reckoned the Royal Navy could have pulled it off if they were in the German's shoes. Subject to a caveat about getting the aerial mining co-ordinated properly, but even then they assumed no-one could be quite as non-cooperative as the Air Staff.

Well i don't know about that. Depends when you think they became preeminent. Was it when they adopted the two power strategy or after waterloo or sometime before? Before then, they were ofteb outnumbered in fights and often in worse or at least less advanced ships
I am disappointed to see this falsehood still being repeated.

"A Historian should know better" - /TreeBeardVoice

One of many reasons I couldn't go into the field, spending your entire time repeatedly debunking long disproven myths just sounds exhausting.

Getting the Hood murdered in a supporting role in convoy defence? Courageous choice...
Not the OTL Hood. The actually-got-a-refit super-Hood.
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Plus if your raider-hunting battle group is participating in a convoy defence then you are doing it wrong, particularly when there will be carriers supporting the hunters.

GBs doing well in order to buy essentially anirher entire new fleet of carriers.
OTL Naval Estimates had two armoured carriers a year out till 1940 and they were £4 million a pop. The Admiralty can get 2xUnicorns and an Ark Royal a year and still be spending less than OTL (armour plate and the supporting structure is really expensive). Manning wise, well the plan is to pay off the older experimental carriers (Eagle, Argus, Hermes and Furious), all of which are expensive to run. The Treasury has probably pencilled in paying off Courageous and Glorious as well once the last two Unicorns turn up, but that depends on the agreed future fleet structure.

Ireland must be feeling the punch of sanctions by now...especially as their only hope for help aside from backing down would come from the US (isolationists) or the League of Nations (which suddenly became busy with more important things).
Not sanctions, an entirely 100% self-inflicted trade war. Which we will discuss in the very next chapter. ;)

Inside them? Did the italians just leave everything in the drawers when they handed them over or is this some new naval marvel in the hull?
Neither of those things.

To be honest, only reason why this doesn't work against Americans, as Americans cheat with exploits such as Double_resources and editing /factory_outputx10 to x101 /joke
Plus they keep using the "Turn up late for the war after profiteering" exploit, which the devs really should have patched after it happened the first time. Leaving that exploit in the sequel was just embarrassing.

"How dare you leave me with such a cliffhanger!"

Vibrates in anticipation
It is probably not that exciting. I mean I enjoyed looking into it, but it is very much a naval engineering thing and not shocking plans or incredible revelations.

Not just that but we were promised a naval yard update and explination only for a brief mention, and that seems moreso to smack down the irish again than anything else!
That was not the naval yard update. The dockyard update is scheduled for early 1938, which equates to.. (fires up spreadsheet).. February 2026. Ish.

I probably should spend more time writing and less refining my Butterfly Effect Time - Real Time conversion spreadsheet. But such is life.

So, no Audacity et al, but Unicorn/s on the way. I like it. Post WW2 they may have some long lasting future with other navies.
No Audacity yet. I can definitely see these Unicorns lasting well and ending up with various Dominion and other Navies as mini-carriers, assuming they survive the future war of course. ;) :D

What the deuze...
It is hideous isn't it? I think it's a Mk.IX Spitfire with the quad-turret from a Defiant, producing the Spittur (Spitter).
 
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I am disappointed to see this falsehood still being repeated.

"A Historian should know better" - /TreeBeardVoice

One of many reasons I couldn't go into the field, spending your entire time repeatedly debunking long disproven myths just sounds exhausting.

The point that they didn't fight fair is correct, it's just that before 1815 they were at a disadvantage most of the time and so cheated (naturally) in order to win, which makes sense. After that, they were the strongest naval power in the world, but still stacked the deck in their favour even more whenever they could, because who wouldn't do that if they could?

British Naval history is long (Royal Navy established for the first time by Alfred the Great) and really complex story, given that its really expensive and tedious to have a navy and for at least several hundred years (until the Tudors for good or ill definitely finished it off), the English kept trying to be a land power instead, either fighting the rest of the islands or trying to conquer/rule France. After Mary I lost Calais and Elizabeth I really hacked off Spain, then you start to get this sort of naval tradition of first surprising success and then superb superiority on the waves, first because the English 'borrowed' and built a ton of super narrow and manoeuvrable ships from the Dutch Republic (which ran rings around Spain's super powerful and super slow galleons), and second because after that all her potential naval rivals either went bankrupt or decided to have a civil war.
 
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British Naval history is long (Royal Navy established for the first time by Alfred the Great) and really complex story, given that its really expensive and tedious to have a navy and for at least several hundred years (until the Tudors for good or ill definitely finished it off), the English kept trying to be a land power instead, either fighting the rest of the islands or trying to conquer/rule France. After Mary I lost Calais and Elizabeth I really hacked off Spain, then you start to get this sort of naval tradition of first surprising success and then superb superiority on the waves, first because the English 'borrowed' and built a ton of super narrow and manoeuvrable ships from the Dutch Republic (which ran rings around Spain's super powerful and super slow galleons), and second because after that all her potential naval rivals either went bankrupt or decided to have a civil war.
First tax directly hypothecated to the Navy was 1350s, role of Clerk of the King's Ships first recorded 1330s. I'll concede Southampton Naval base wasn't open till 1420s, but it's still very much pre-Tudor. Not that these efforts went smoothly the entire time, Henry V and Richard I being the standout Kings who actually put the effort into naval administration (as opposed to just the ship building parts), but once these things were started they kept on going and laid the foundations (often literally) for what followed.

On the shipbuilding, meh. The Spanish developed the narrow and handy 'frigates' before the Dutch but abandoned them for the same reason the English didn't 'borrow' them - far too lightly built, poor seaboats and worryingly short lives. Of course there was a degree of exchange of ideas, shipwrights copying parts of foreign designs (and having their designs copied in turn), but not to the extent claimed.

As I said. Sad to see long discredit myths repeated.
 
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At this point I must beg forgivness for ignorance beyond the end of the middle ages and that thus my knowledge defaults generally to whig history as taught by old guard proffesors and the eclectic stuff weaned from QI and Paradox AARs...

That bring said, now that I think about it, this history of boating is more interesting in these islands (should have been obvious really, not sure why the establishment wants it figured otherwise???). I sympathise with the ignorance and false narrarives though because medieval and dark age study is also full of it (longbows and two handed swords come to mind immediately but everything from dung heaps to surgery also). So, feel free to educate away.

First tax directly hypothecated to the Navy was 1350s

In England? They arguably had at least some provision for it since Ethelred the Unready (because he certainly didn't build all those ships he lost himself) and actually tended to try to get allies and tributaries to provide ships too (hence the scottish, funnily enough, swearing to support them land and sea in the 960s). Curiously enough, even though the viking raids and invasions were by sea, and they were really good at sailing, we don't have any evidence the saxons fought back on the seas except for Alfred...and his record sort of shows why too. They'd win battles, then on the way back get caught by much larger fleets and defeated.

But back to Ethelred. He wanted a ship for every 300-310 hides of land in the kingdom (basically, a lot of ships. Talking 100 to 300 here). They all met up to start defending against raids, and then the lords fell out with each other and some left. When the king's ships tried to go after them, they all sank.

Jumping forward to Cnut the Great, who conquered England with a mixture of his own fleet and some of Ethelred's mercenary ships, he then dismissed most of it (because it was bloody expensive and complicated) and kept a few dozen.

40 ships or so remained the standard until the norman conquest it seems, sometimes lower when it was too expensive. There must have been some confidence in the fleet though because the saxons sent it to blockade Flanders at one point (which was basically asking the french, the normans and the germans to attack them) and seemed to get away with it.

This fleet then stood ready all summer 1066 and then sunk on the way back to London as per tradition. The Normans doubled the size of the fleet (since they both wanted to conquer island and keep northern france) but generally didn't care for it much, except for richard I (who wanted to go crusading and kept getting shipwrecked) and John (who lost Normandy and Ireland, removing the need for his fleet).

role of Clerk of the King's Ships first recorded 1330s

There were clerks and admirals before then but not for very long or for specific wars (because afterwards the ships disperse/get trashed). Generally speaking, whenever england was trying to invade Scotland or was scared of france, they had an admiral.

Henry V and Richard I being the standout Kings who actually put the effort into naval administration (as opposed to just the ship building parts), but once these things were started they kept on going and laid the foundations (often literally) for what followed.

Sort of. I would say Edward III and Henry V were very useful for the navy. The former really boosted numbers to several hundred and made extensive use of raiding and scouting against France. The first big open sea wins for england happen in the 100 year war but Henry V whilst consolidating the admiralty also captured most of the french coastline and thus had to downsize the navy considerably. After that we don't get a big ship building program until after the york lancaster civil war (fancy that) and since the next big build had lots of guns and was Henry VII, who loved re-writing history, the tudors get lots of credit presumably for kickstarting the early modern navy.
 
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....Can somebody explain why we are talking about medieval era shipwrights and politics?????? Don't you DARE to try to get our good El Pip to divert this AAR from WW2 to a Medieval era shipbuilding from Anglo-Saxons to Tudors and beyond Composer! :eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
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