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Aug 1, 2001
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I plan on using this rule system in the next MP game I start. I am posting it here for the community to review and for people to help me catch potential flaws in the system BEFORE I try and implement it. Comments are extremely valuable to me, so please please give at least a few thoughts. Now, on with the show.................

The Power and Prestige Rule System:

The Power and Prestige System is essentially a point-based advancement system. Points are accumulated through certain actions and then spend between sessions to purchase certain things. However, in order to work, the Power and Prestige system must first eliminate significant portions of the common MP game structure and impose several restrictions on player behavior that cannot be stopped through editing. This is to increase the importance of Power and Prestige points.

Major Scenario Changes:

1. No Random Events
2. No Historical Events
3. No Leaders
4. All monarchs set to 3/3/3 stats
5. No National Provinces except on the capitals of all human nations

* Modified Scenario Will Be Posted Online Soon *

Gameplay Restrictions:

1. No Missionaries may be sent.
2. No Manufactories may be built.
3. No Shipyards may be built.
4. No Barracks may be built.
5. No DP Changes may be made.
6. No Changing State Religion.
7. No Diplomatic Map Exchange
8. No Player Alliances

* The punishment for rule violation will fit the crime *

Definitions: For Clarity

Europe = British Isles, Iceland, Gotland, and all Mediterranian Islands + and all land provinces up to and including Toubkal, Nile, Arabia, Iraq, Kirkuk, Azerbaijan, Astrakhan, and Orenburg.

Colonial = All of the Americas + all non-European African provinces + all remaining coastal provinces and islands. Asian interior is not colonial.


Gaining Power Points:

Power Points represent military power. They are fairly rare and hence very valuable. They are gained in the following ways;

Offensive Warfare: Any declaration of war against a human nation gives one point. Any European provinces won in such a war will grant an additional two points each or three points each if it is a state-culture province. Any colonial provinces won in such a war will grant an additional one point each. A COT adds one point to any province gain.

Forced Vassalization: Vassalization of a human player by force gives five points. One additional point accrues for every 10 years that nation remains a vassal. Exact terms of the vassalage (duration, for example) are irrelevant so long as the vassalization is truly imposed by force.

Manpower Gained: Every session base recieved manpower growth will be measured. A player gains one point for every 10% increase in manpower. Base Recieved Manpower is the sum of only the provincial manpower that your nation recieves and not other effects (like DP sliders or the actual manpower of the province).

Military Technology Leader: The first nation to reach the next CRT level of either land or naval technology gains three points. At the end of each session, the leaders of land and naval technology will each recieve points equal to the number of tech levels they are ahead of the nearest competitor.


Gaining Prestige Points:

Prestige Points represent economic and political power. They are less rare than power points, but are more flexible and easier to acquire. They are gained in the following ways;

Defensive Warfare: Any declaration of war against a nation gives them one point. Any European provinces won in such a war will grant an additional two points each or three points each if it is a state-culture province. Any colonial provinces won in such a war will grant an additional one point each. A COT adds one point to any province gain. White peace in such a war will grant an additional one point.

Diplomatic Vassalization:Vassalization of a human player by diplomatic means gives five points. One additional point accrues for every 10 years that nation remains a vassal. Exact terms of the vassalage (duration, for example) are irrelevant so long as the vassalization is willingly agreed upon.

Core Tax Base: Every session non-trade monthly income will be measured. A player gains one-fifth of their monthly non-trade income in points, rounded down.

Income Gained: Every session non-trade monthly income growth will be measured. A player gains twenty points for any session where they increase their non-trade monthly income growth by more than 25%.

Economic Technology Leader: The first nation to reach the next level of either trade or infrastructure technology gains three points. At the end of each session, the leaders of trade and infrastructure technology will each recieve points equal to the number of tech levels they are ahead of the nearest competitor.


Spending Power Points:

Power Points may be used to purchase the following enhancements between sessions.

Religious Conversion: Non-Orthodox Christians can change their state religion to Catholic, Protestant, Reformed, or Counter-Reformed Catholic for five points. A European province may be instantly converted to the state religion for five points. A European province of over 20,000 population costs an additional three points. A European province over 100,000 population costs an additional five points non-cumulative with 20,000). A European province of a non-state culture costs an additional five points. A colonial province may be instantly converted to the state religion for three points; regardless of culture or population. For example, the conversion of a major European city (ex: Milan = 100,000+ population) that is not the state culture costs fifteen points to convert, but a small American colony (ex: San Juan = 1,100 population) only costs three points. Colonial conversions also convert the province culture to the primary state culture.

Domestic Policy Changes: Domestic Policies may be changed for five points per one-step movement. No more than three one-step movements may be purchased per session.

War Taxes: Base-tax of European state culture provinces may be raised by one increment for two points. No more than ten increments may be purchased per session. No single province can recieve more than one increment change per session.

Stolen Economic Technology: If an offensive war was fought during the previous session against a human opponent with higher economic tech (trade or infrastructure) than the offensive nation and during the course of the war the capital of the defender was captured by the offensive power, five points may be spent to steal half of the difference to the next tech level in the respective technology. Example: France fights a war with England and in the course of the war captures Anglia. England has trade tech level 6 while France only has trade tech level 5 with 10,000 ducats left to spend on research. Before the next session, France may spend five points to halve that gap, gaining 5,000 ducats of trade tech research. This can only be purchased once per session and only for one economic tech at a time.


Spending Prestige Points:

Military Leaders: Military Leaders (Generals and Admirals) may be purchased for five points. Such a leader will come with 3/3/3/0 stats. Fire, Shock, and Manuever may be raised to four (for one point), five (for another two points), or six (for another three points); but not higher than six. Siege may be raised to one (for one point), two (for another two points), or three (for another 3 points); but not higher than 3. These cost increases are cumulative, so raising a stat to its maximum actually costs an additional six points. Such a leader will live for a base duration of ten years. Further lifespan may be purchased for three points per ten years of additional life; up to a maximum of 30 years for any single leader. Thus a 4/4/5/1 leader that lived for 20 years would cost 14 points to purchase.

Exploration Leaders: Exploration Leaders (Conquistadors and Explorers) may be purchased for five points. Such a leader will come with 4/4/6/0 stats. Such a leader will live for a duration of five years. Stats and Lifespan may not be increased through further point expeditures.

Advanced Structures: Advanced Structures (Manufactories, Shipyards, and Conscription Centers) may be purchased for five points per existing structure you already own (each manufactory type is judged seperately). The first two refineries, for example, each cost five points each. The third costs ten points, the fourth costs fifteen points, and so on. You must have the appropriate technology to purchase a manufactory. Shipyards and Conscription Centers may be purchased before you have the proper technology, but the cost is tripled if you dont have the right technology. Shipyards and Conscription Centers can only be built in European provinces. Manufactories may be built anywhere.

Purchased Military Technology: A player may spend five points to gain one-half of the remaining distance to the next land or naval technology level so long as another player nation is at least two levels away from them in the respective technology. This may only be purchased once per session per tech.

Mercenary Contacts: Manpower of European state culture provinces may be raised by one increment for three points. No more than ten increments may be purchased per session. No single province can recieve more than a four increment change per session.

State Cultures: State cultures may be added for one point per province that exists with the culture in question. Swiss, for example, may be gained for two points. Gaelic would be more expensive at twelve points. Some cultures may be cost-prohibitive; French, Iberian, Italian, etc; but not impossible theoretically.

Monarch Stats: Monarchs stats may be raised at the cost of half of the new stat level (round down) and are cumulative. Since all monarchs are set to be 3/3/3 by default, this means that going up to 4/4/4 costs 6 (12/2) points. 5/5/5, however, would cost 13 (9+9+9/2) points. Monarchs living longer than forty years are double normal costs. Monarchs living less than ten years are half normal costs.


Special Issues:

AAR Points: There will be an AAR for this game. Each player who writes a respectable AAR contribution (as judged by the GM) recieves two power points and two prestige points. Each player who writes a extraordinary AAR contribution (as judged by the GM) recieves four power points and four prestige points.

Point Awards and Point Purchases: The GM will publish the point awards for a session within 48 hours of the end of the session. Players must submit their point purchases at least 24 hours before the next session. Only half of unspent points roll over to the next session.

Iberian/Turkish Advantage: Portugal, Spain, and the Ottoman Empire begin play with a free ten prestige points that can be used before the first session.


Country Bidding System:

Players cannot choose their country directly. Instead, a Country Bid is placed with the GM. Each player has 100 points to bid with. They divide these points as they choose among the available countries. They may also choose to BANK up to 20 points. Thus a potential Country Bid could be any of the following;

Bid Example 1:
France: 25
England: 25
Spain: 20
Ottoman Empire: 20
BANK: 10

Bid Example 2:
England: 50
Spain: 30
Ottoman Empire: 20

Bid Example 3:
France: 80
BANK: 20

Countries are then assigned to the highest bidder. Ties are resolved randomly by the GM. After all bidding assignments have been resolved, countries not bid upon are assigned randomly among the remaining players by the GM. BANK points are immediately translated into free prestige points that can be used before the first session.

In our example: the first bidder has a decent chance of getting one of his four favorite countries; but if he doesnt get them he will at least have a BANK of ten points. The second bidder has a good chance of getting England and a decent chance of getting Spain or the Ottoman Empire; however he has no BANK. The third player will almost certainly get France, but if another player is even more determined to get France, they will have virtually no control over what country they get. This is a risky bid, but at least he will have his 20 BANK points wherever he ends up.




NOTE: This is not the first thread of an MP game, it is a proposal for an MP game rule system to be implemented in a future game. I want your comments on the viability and potential flaws of this system, dont try and join it just yet :D
 
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Potential Flaws I am trying to figure out solutions to:

1. The Dutch Question.
2. A solid definition of a "fake war" to prevent exploitation.
3. Potential disparities between nations based on geographic limitations (harder for certain nations to fight wars because they are small, for example; Portugal).


Some Interesting Dynamics I would like to point out:

1. In order to change their national religion, convert individual provinces, or change DP sliders, nations must wage lots of wars to gain the necessary power points to do so.

2. Prestige Point gain is largely effected by non-trade income gains; hence the value of province exchange is increased and war over land more likely.

3. Several mechanisms make hyperteching less likely; increased appeal of war, high cost of manufactories, economic tech can be stolen, perfect DP sliders are going to be VERY hard to get, and monarch stats are very low so tech gain is slower.
 
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I'm betting everyone wants a homogeneous (sp?) catholic country. (ok, you could call it geographical disparity, I guess)

*conversion of provinces is costly
*conversion of country is costly
*you may have to run 20-30 years while protestantism is introduced and your country is still catholic.

still, I like the idea, and it's somewhat similar to what I once thought of (never materialised) - players getting points to spend on "historical" events.

to the bidding system, may I suggest something different?
loosely based on the bidding system used in Axis&Allies, where it is 'common' knowledge that the Axis are weaker. - both players make a bid for the Axis- "I play them if I get X money extra to spend", the one with the lowest bid getting them.
Now, since there are a lot of countries in EU2, I would suggest turning it around a bit, and say everyone has a base 20 points.
You bid "X" points for every country you want (includes "0" bids for countries you don't bid on,could even include negative for countries you DISlike)
the player with the highest bid for a country gets it, and gets 20-X free points.

All in all, sounds like a great concept, but the "time delay" factor (esp. for conversion of the country) needs to be carefully looked into.
You could perhaps go as far as giving points for being not of the religion you want to be. (ie. ENG wants to become protestant in 1518 when the event fires, but she can't yet, because the session just started, so she gets 1 point every 2 (or 5 or..) years- provided ofcourse that she does indeed switch to that religion at the end of the session)

EDIT: the explorers/conquistadors seem rather strong compared to normal leaders (even if the 6 is movement)
 
Explorer and Conquistador values only seem to be set high for 3 reasons;

1. Stats cannot be increased
2. They will mainly be fighting AI or doing other tasks; not fighting other humans.
3. Movement determines attrition damage and I want people to be able to actually go someone where with their explorer (6 move = -12 attrition) or carry a large army with a conquistador (6 move = -24 attrition)


Regarding time-delay, we could allow people to purchase that in advance and then let them switch in-game. Or we could manually trigger religious events on a between session basis. Example: Protestantism triggered at end of session that goes through 1518 (it isnt like Protestantism instantly spread to England in 1518; quite far from it actually) and then Reformed could be triggered at the next session after that probably, and so on.
 
Lots of good ideas here, a bit too many for my narrow mind to consider all at once, but I will make an effort anyhow.

These rules

ryoken69 said:
2. No Manufactories may be built.
3. No Shipyards may be built.
4. No Barracks may be built.

would probably suffice in order to make a game stuffed with all the action one could possibly want. It would leave ample cash in the treasuries around that must now be spent differently - probably on wars.

If I were GM, I would probably leave it at that for simplicity. But since you are GM, and you like to do stuff, I will comment on the rest as well:

On gaining points:

ryoken69 said:
Offensive Warfare: Any declaration of war against a human nation gives one point. Any European provinces won in such a war will grant an additional two points each or three points each if it is a state-culture province. Any colonial provinces won in such a war will grant an additional one point each. A COT adds one point to any province gain.
ryoken69 said:
Defensive Warfare: Any declaration of war against a nation gives them one point. Any European provinces won in such a war will grant an additional two points each or three points each if it is a state-culture province. Any colonial provinces won in such a war will grant an additional one point each. A COT adds one point to any province gain. White peace in such a war will grant an additional one point.

It would be nice, but complicating, if some measure of relative strength could be taken into account. For instance, if Country A (20 provinces) dows Country B (10 provinces), Country A's power points could be multiplied by 0,5, and Country B's prestige points by 2.

ryoken69 said:
Forced Vassalization: Vassalization of a human player by force gives five points. One additional point accrues for every 10 years that nation remains a vassal. Exact terms of the vassalage (duration, for example) are irrelevant so long as the vassalization is truly imposed by force.

To give points for an accomplished vassalization is probably fair enough. I'd make this size relative as well, for instance two points per province vassalized divided by the number of owned provinces.
On the other hand, I would rather not see any rules regarding the duration of the vassalization other than that which is already in the game engine.

ryoken69 said:
Diplomatic Vassalization:Vassalization of a human player by diplomatic means gives five points. One additional point accrues for every 10 years that nation remains a vassal. Exact terms of the vassalage (duration, for example) are irrelevant so long as the vassalization is willingly agreed upon.

I can't really see this happening unless by abuse. Anyway I don't think it is possible in a game where player alliances are disallowed.

ryoken69 said:
Military Technology Leader: The first nation to reach the next CRT level of either land or naval technology gains three points. At the end of each session, the leaders of land and naval technology will each recieve points equal to the number of tech levels they are ahead of the nearest competitor.
ryoken69 said:
Economic Technology Leader: The first nation to reach the next level of either trade or infrastructure technology gains three points. At the end of each session, the leaders of trade and infrastructure technology will each recieve points equal to the number of tech levels they are ahead of the nearest competitor.

I don't see the need for this.

ryoken69 said:
Income Gained: Every session non-trade monthly income growth will be measured. A player gains twenty points for any session where they increase their non-trade monthly income growth by more than 25%.

This is a bit tricky. Some sessions last longer than others. Secondly, a player can make sure that he ends every other session with a realtively lousy income.

On spending points:

ryoken69 said:
Religious Conversion: Non-Orthodox Christians can change their state religion to Catholic, Protestant, Reformed, or Counter-Reformed Catholic for five points. A European province may be instantly converted to the state religion for five points. A European province of over 20,000 population costs an additional three points. A European province over 100,000 population costs an additional five points non-cumulative with 20,000). A European province of a non-state culture costs an additional five points. A colonial province may be instantly converted to the state religion for three points; regardless of culture or population. For example, the conversion of a major European city (ex: Milan = 100,000+ population) that is not the state culture costs fifteen points to convert, but a small American colony (ex: San Juan = 1,100 population) only costs three points. Colonial conversions also convert the province culture to the primary state culture.

So any province outside Europe, be it Bermuda or Ganges, will change religion and culture for 3 points?

A suggestion: Since all conversions will be done by edit anyway, you could take it several steps further and closer to reality than the game engine does. A conversion as we know it, where the entire population of a province converts without much ado, should either be outright impossible, or come at a very steep price. There could be other solutions though:

a) Conversion
-bloody expensive/impossible
b) Force them to move
-allows the player to force the population to move to a neighbouring province of his choice.
c) Diplomatic displacement
-allows the player to get rid of the problem by sending the population to another player, who may settle them in one of his provinces.
d) Internal displacement
-allows the player to move the population to another of his own provinces.

where d) is cheapest, a) is most expensive, b) and c) cost the same but under c) the price is shared between 2 countries. A suitable multiplyer should be added for population size. Options b), c) and d) leave the province with a popultaion of 1000 state culture/religious souls, no MP and no taxes. The recieving province gets a subsequent addition to population, MP and taxes, as well as a culture/religion change if the newcomers outnumber the previous population.

ryoken69 said:
Military Leaders: Military Leaders (Generals and Admirals) may be purchased for five points. Such a leader will come with 3/3/3/0 stats. Fire, Shock, and Manuever may be raised to four (for one point), five (for another two points), or six (for another three points); but not higher than six. Siege may be raised to one (for one point), two (for another two points), or three (for another 3 points); but not higher than 3. These cost increases are cumulative, so raising a stat to its maximum actually costs an additional six points. Such a leader will live for a base duration of ten years. Further lifespan may be purchased for three points per ten years of additional life; up to a maximum of 30 years for any single leader. Thus a 4/4/5/1 leader that lived for 20 years would cost 14 points to purchase.

The added lifespan cost is way too cheap, other than that it sounds great.

ryoken69 said:
State Cultures: State cultures may be added for one point per province that exists with the culture in question. Swiss, for example, may be gained for two points. Gaelic would be more expensive at twelve points. Some cultures may be cost-prohibitive; French, Iberian, Italian, etc; but not impossible theoretically.

I personally don't think it should be possible to add state cultures.

ryoken69 said:
Monarch Stats: Monarchs stats may be raised at the cost of half of the new stat level (round down) and are cumulative. Since all monarchs are set to be 3/3/3 by default, this means that going up to 4/4/4 costs 6 (12/2) points. 5/5/5, however, would cost 13 (9+9+9/2) points. Monarchs living longer than forty years are double normal costs. Monarchs living less than ten years are half normal costs.

Since a lot of players have not memorized the lifespans of the various monarchs, and some countries' monarchs dont rule for long anyway, It would make things easier if one could just buy a monarch with such and such stats for a fixed period (like with leaders).

Additional ideas:

*Ability to spend points on sabotage in other countries. Burning manufactories, inflict stab-loss, plant plagues, incite revolts and the like.
*Ability to spend (lots of) points on opening new CoTs.

That's it for now.
 
Just a little observation. The manpower and tax value of most provinces tends to drift upwards naturally as time progresses. 10 total increases per session would seem pretty insufficient for a large nation (i.e Russia, France) as compared to a small one - so growth would be slightly unbalanced. Maybe a better rule would allow one increase per province. I doubt people will have the power and prestige points to buy it anyway, so the cost might need some tweaking.

Another way to simulate this would be to implement a limited amount of events. Perhaps 6 +1 tax values and 5 -1 tax values. This will result in a gradual drift towards higher tax value as time progresses. Of course these would need to be scaled to country size...

Interestingly, each investment in tax value is an investment in prestige, so this requires some consideration.

I would also suggest increasing the cost per province of claiming a culture by a factor of at least 2. It's not that difficult for certain nations to get a large tax income and claiming a culture should represent a large investment for them. A France with a nontrade income in 1500 (not to mention later!) of 200/year for example is not outrageous. By the formula above (which I am sure is still subject to change), this would be enough to get 40 prestige points. This is clearly enough to claim Italian culture by itself, without even considering other sources of Prestige income. I think this is a little extreme, and could quickly become unbalanced.

As Forzaa pointed out, it does seem like everyone will want to stay Catholic since warfare is encouraged and conversion is so costly. I think keeping the cost of conversion relatively low would help to encourage player wars. But the way you set it up currently may be by design, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to do here.

All in all very radical ideas, I definitely would love to play in a game like this.