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Well, sadly Romney failed. It would have been interesting. Anyways, looks like both parties are in for a hell of a convention XD. Forbes is an interesting candidate, should be interesting to see what happens. I might be wrong, but he has no political office experience, right? If so, this should be a fun read (not that it isn't already one).

EDIT: Also pleased to see Nixon lose. I kinda want to see him remain in the Senate and become a crusader for good governance, or something. Would be a nice twist of irony, and I could see him rising to be a Republican Majority (or Minority) Leader, and being a pain in what ever President happens to hold office. A Ted Kennedy for the Republicans, or something.
 
If you really want to have an AAR where the GOP wins the 1964 Elections then i suggest Forbes asking Goldwater to be his vice president. Just like how Donald Trump picked Pence so he can grab Midwest support and Conservatives of the GOP, a Goldwater VP means that he can snatch Grassroots Conservatives, the Midwest, and a couple of Southern states also (Texas, Florida?). Plus storywise it would be really fun to see two differing personalities clash on policy making (at least Forbes and Goldwater don't have a vendetta against each other).
Also i'm really fine with Forbes becoming president as he is a decent moderate who actually implements his policies. But i'm afraid we are entering uncharted waters as Forbes was never a politician OTL so this will make for a very interesting administration. FORBES/GOLDWATER 1964
 
I wonder why the VC doesn't try to put some bombs into the two conventions and, voilà, US in disarray! :D
 
I wonder why the VC doesn't try to put some bombs into the two conventions and, voilà, US in disarray! :D
That would be a plot twist. As Johnson actually resigned? If not, we get surprise Johnson Presidency! If he did, well, um, did the Succession Act pass? XD
 
Jape: I don’t think Forbes has his eggs yet.

I have a couple different options. I could give Nixon a cabinet post (I’m thinking Attorney General given his law background), run him for California Governor in 1966, or keep him in the Senate (his seat will be up for a vote in November).

Given that McGovern has wind in his sails heading into the convention, what can machine politicians do? Put forward their own Presidential candidate? Demand that McGovern pick a running mate that they would approve of? Would they even matter in this anti-Jackson pro-dove political climate?

SirNolan: Forbes certainly is nerdy. I mean, just look at him.

I would be careful about counting a defeated Dick Nixon out. ;)

For some reason, Republicans in Wisconsin and Ohio only wanted to give their primaries to favorite sons in 1964.

“But the guys that can't handle a Forbes win are just short-sighted sore losers.” Just swap out “Forbes” with “Clinton” and you have just described Bernie Sanders supporters.

jeeshadow: Given that Romney fell flat on his face during his 1968 Presidential bid, I don’t think 1964 would have turned out any better for him. He just wasn’t a candidate who could go the distance nationally.

Forbes served as a New Jersey State Senator and is now the two-term Governor of New Jersey. I think that qualifies as “political office experience”.

Richard Nixon – the Marco Rubio of 1964. “I can win the nomination despite the fact that I am currently losing everything else. All I have to do is win my home state. Then you’ll see.” :p

Nixon has certainly been a pain for Presidents of both political parties.

Kaiser Chris: While it would make political sense, I’m not sure Goldwater would want to be Forbes’ Vice President. As the leading conservative voice in America, I think Goldwater would want to remain in the Senate where he would be able to exert his influence on legislation (especially if Forbes’ coattails give the GOP control of the Senate). Being Vice President on the other hand I think would stifle Goldwater’s voice. As LBJ learned, you can only do so much as Vice President. Most Vice Presidents get ignored and sidelined to the point that John Nance Garner regarded the office as not being worth a bucket of warm piss.

Forbes was a politician in the 1950s but retired from politics after losing his race for New Jersey Governor in 1957. Since he never got this far historically, figuring out what kind of President he might have made will be quite interesting.

Kurt_Steiner: What an ingeniously evil idea you have there! :D

jeeshadow: Johnson is living in domestic exile at his ranch in Texas, so if Jackson died at the convention, we would get...President Charles Halleck!
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The March Offensive
In talking about the Vietnam War, it is easy to forget that America wasn’t the only nation which sent soldiers to fight in South Vietnam. On March 9th, 1964, the 1st Australian Task Force, consisting of combat troops from Australia and New Zealand, arrived in the country to fight in the South Vietnamese Army as foreign volunteers. As close allies of the United States, Australia and New Zealand shared America’s view that the loss of South Vietnam would make it much harder to stop the dominoes of Southeast Asia from toppling in China’s direction. Unlike America though, Australia and New Zealand already had experience fighting guerillas in the jungle. During the postwar Malayan Emergency, the two nations had fought alongside England to defeat Communist insurgents in the jungles of Peninsular Malaysia. So fighting the Viet Cong was nothing new for them. The arrival of the 1st Australian Task Force internationalized the Vietnam War, which until that point had been straightly an American affair. Like their American counterparts, soldiers from Australia and New Zealand would see major action in South Vietnam.

(Australian soldiers on patrol in South Vietnam)
On the same day the 1st Australian Task Force arrived to fight in South Vietnamese ranks, the Communists launched a coordinated invasion of the country. Advancing from across the unsecured South Vietnam-Cambodia border, the Viet Cong launched a series of surprise attacks. Binh Long, Quang Duc, Pleiku, and Kontum all fell rapidly. At the same time, the North Vietnamese Army crossed the Demilitarized Zone separating the two Vietnams and attacked the imperial city of Hue. The South Vietnamese defenders, caught off guard, were defeated and were forced to retreat south to Da Nang. Despite American air attacks on their forces, North Vietnamese control over the old and stately city was secured on March 16th. Although the South Vietnamese Army was able to retake Binh Long on March 15th, they were unable to dislodge the Viet Cong from their other gains. They did stop Viet Cong advances on Phuoc Long (March 19th) and Tuyen Duc (March 22nd) though. Meanwhile, the North Vietnamese Army set its’ sights on Da Nang. The South Vietnamese defenders once again lost a battle to their northern counterparts and on April 1st, Da Nang fell into North Vietnamese hands.

The March Offensive as it would be called was the brainchild of North Vietnamese leader Ho Chi Minh. Watching the American war effort from his perch in Hanoi, Ho looked for any American weaknesses he could exploit in order to turn the tide of the Vietnam War in his favor. He soon found one. After the CIA had engineered the overthrow of the pro-China Cambodian government in Operation Matas, the Americans assumed the Cambodian border with South Vietnam was secured. Instead it was porous and unguarded, which meant Viet Cong divisions could move around Eastern Cambodia with little if any resistance. While the Americans were focused on battling the Viet Cong in the Mekong Delta, the border laid vulnerable to attack. Realizing his side could exploit this, Ho hatched a plan in which the Viet Cong would surprise the Americans from behind. At the exact same time, his military would invade South Vietnam. To lull the enemy into a false sense of security, Ho ordered his military to respect the Demilitarized Zone. By staying above the border, he wanted to create the impression that he wouldn’t conduct a ground invasion. Thus by appearing to be inactive, the North Vietnamese would surprise the enemy when it came time for them to be active. Ho’s plan worked very well; the suddenness of the March Offensive caught the enemy off guard, allowing the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong to make rapid gains and put the other side on the defense.

(North Vietnamese soldiers)
General Maxwell Taylor, the commander of US forces in South Vietnam, had been aware of the Viet Cong’s presence in Cambodia. Reports had come into his headquarters from American pilots sighting Viet Cong divisions inside what was supposed to be an American ally. Indeed, the day before the March Offensive he had cabled Washington a request for additional forces to clear out Cambodia and secure the country against further enemy encroachment. Despite his awareness of the enemy’s presence, Taylor was unprepared to deal with the sudden onslaught of the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army. After the extent of the enemy’s invasion had become clear to him, Taylor wheeled his forces north from the newly-secured Mekong Delta. However, he realized that his command of 40,000 combat soldiers wasn’t going to be enough to turn back the coordinated enemy assault. He was going to need more men...and quickly. His emergency cable requesting more divisions (each division having roughly 10,000 men) was received with shock by the President. Jackson had put so much faith into Taylor’s original estimate that he only needed four divisions to complete the mission in South Vietnam that he hadn’t second-guessed his trusted General. He just took what Taylor said at face value. One man though had seen this coming:
“Mr. President, with all due respect, I told you his plan was never going to work.”
In Washington, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs David L. McDonald seized the dire news coming out of South Vietnam as proof that “I told you so!” When the Administration had been debating how many men to commit to the Vietnam War in 1962, McDonald had argued that Taylor’s estimate of four divisions was too small given the mission: “A US force of the magnitude of 40,000 men – whether deployed all at once or in piecemeal – will not convince the other side that we mean business.”
Instead the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff had urged the President to face “the ultimate possible extent of our military commitment”: a force of 205,000 men to counter both the Viet Cong and a potential intervention by North Vietnam and China. Scoop thought that was too much and went with the amount Taylor wanted. Now that McDonald’s view that 40,000 combat soldiers were insufficient had been vindicated, the Chairman once again pressed for a massive increase of troops to 205,000. The President once again shot him down. This time Scoop felt he couldn’t take such a dramatic step without seeking Congressional approval first. It was one thing to send four divisions without consulting Congress, but twenty? “Half of Congress,” he roughly estimated, “Doesn’t even want us to be there. If I go before them right now and try to get their approval for a troop level of 200,000, I am not sure I can get it.”
Instead the Commander-in-Chief hedged his bets. On March 26th, he ordered the Pentagon to send 40,000 men to South Vietnam, boosting Taylor’s total to 80,000. He also told the Pentagon to be prepared to activate the contingency plan for 120,000 men total pending Congressional approval for the Vietnam War (should he decide to seek it).

By raising the troop level from four to eight divisions, Jackson escalated his country’s military involvement in Vietnam. As additional American forces (like those seen above) arrived in South Vietnam, their presence helped blunt the enemy’s advance. The South Vietnamese Army halted the progress of the North Vietnamese Army at Quang Tin, although several of their attempts to dislodge the Viet Cong from the central highland town of Pleiku all failed. Advancing north from the Mekong Delta, the Americans engaged the Viet Cong in battle at Quang Duc and defeated them. They reoccupied the position on April 26th. At about the same time, a North Vietnamese effort to outflank the South Vietnamese defenders of Quang Tin by hitting them from behind at Quang Ngai failed. On May 10th, Taylor and his second-in-command General Hamilton Howze met to plot what to do next. What they came up with was Operation Ground Round. With the enemy dug in at Pleiku, the Americans would swing around the fortified position and hit Kontum instead. Recapturing Kontum would not only isolate Pleiku, it would put the Americans on the front steps of the main Viet Cong base at Saravane. After taking up their pre-planned positions, Taylor and Howze attacked the enemy from two directions in the Battle of Kontum (June 1st – June 4th). The battle ended in an American victory and Kontum was reoccupied the next day.

According to his intelligence at the time, twelve enemy divisions were dug in at Pleiku. Instead of having his troops immediately assault the well-fortified stronghold and suffer heavy casualties in the process, Taylor decided to soften up the enemy’s defenses first with a classic siege. He directed his artillery guns to shell the defenders while warplanes assaulted them from above. Only when he deemed the enemy to be significantly softened up would Taylor order his army, along with the armies commanded by Howze and newly-arrived General Alexander Haig, to launch an offensive against Pleiku. This was the state of the Vietnam War on July 13th when the 1964 Republican National Convention convened at the Cow Palace in San Francisco.
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In case you are wondering, yes. That Alexander Haig.
 
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The Tet Offensive, four years in advance? I have the odd feeling that Washington has been wasting time and resources and that the fight, the real one, starts now.
 
Senate Majority Leader Nixon, perhaps?

Sanders's delegates were poorly chosen and trained, his wife admitted they never had control of them.

So looks like things are heating up in Vietnam with a Forbes Administration on the way and it seems like China will likely get directly involved eventually, I seem to remember you saying that war with China was coming. Let's see how the accountant handles some Vietnam/Korean War fusion.
 
Hm... New offensive. I don't see this really effecting the Republican Convention, but the Democratic one it might. I see it either giving steam to McGovern, or hurting him. I do feel it is the death blow to Jackson's reelection bid, though. Hello President Forbes :p.
 
I was always surprised Alexander Haig survived in the job long enough to be so catastrophically stupid during the Falklands talks. Is it too much to hope that a crack Vietnamese squad takes a US HQ unit by surprise and takes him out?

I pity the ANZACs going into Vietnam, they are going to try and do things properly but I fear the US leadership will ignore them just like OTL so they'll be wasting their time. I'm not sure even if the US had adopted their tactics and wider view of the war it would have been enough for victory, but it would at least have been less bloody and not as rough on the locals.
 
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The greatest irony of the '64 Tet offensive is that Goldwater could use this as a claim that Jackson is going too soft in Vietnam and we need to send in more troops. Hopefully Forbes can keep a cooler head and the U.S military can adapt to counter-insurgency tactics this time around.

By the way i think now would be the perfect time to introduce Reagan to the grand political scheme of things by having him make a speech for Forbes at the convention like how he did for Goldwater OTL. This will help him get some credit within the GOP and hopefully some attention in preparation for his Governorship/senatorial position for California.

For a 2016 Presidential Election even though it is decades away will you have Donald Trump still run for President somehow. I think in all honesty with how the timeline is different with Obama potentially not making it into office that Ted Cruz, Rick Perry, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, or Jeb Bush (if his brother doesn't f*ck up Katrina and invade Iraq or never becomes president)would be the best candidates for the GOP. And for fun why don't we let Bernie win the nomination TTL, he can be this timelines Ross Perot (referencing his 93-97 term in your TTL#1).
 
Kurt_Steiner: Not really the Tet Offensive. It’s more like the AI letting me know it can actually do something after spending the first couple months of the game not doing anything of importance. All of a sudden I started losing provinces left and right! :eek:

SirNolan: Hmm...that’s an interesting proposition.

The Vietnam War has certainly heated up much earlier than it actually did. The North Vietnamese Army historically didn’t attack Hue until the Tet Offensive in 1968, and Pleiku wasn’t attacked by the Viet Cong until February 1965. The attack on Pleiku led to LBJ escalating America’s involvement in Vietnam.

jeeshadow: I think the convention outcomes are too set in stone to be affected much by the current progression of the Vietnam War. The real impact will come in the fall campaign. If the Americans are recovering from the surprise offensive and are pushing the enemy back, I think that will undermine McGovern’s message from the primaries that the Vietnam War is lost. If the next couple months go well for the Americans, I can see Forbes taking a “don’t rock the boat” position on Vietnam.

As for Jackson, he’s done. Unlike Abraham Lincoln, whose re-election prospects in 1864 looked bleak until the North started racking up victories that fall, there’s nothing that can save Scoop at this point from being a one-termer.

El Pip: Sorry, El Pip. Al Haig will survive the Vietnam War and be a face in future Administrations. :p

In the Vietnam Mod, the ANZACs are treated as additional units for the South Vietnamese Army. Playing as the United States, I can’t touch them. My depiction of the ANZACs in the opening paragraph is based on the game event.

Kaiser Chris: Except...Jackson is already sending in more troops.

What happens to Reagan politically depends on what I do with Nixon...but he will certainly make an appearance in the fall campaign.

2016? :confused:

I don’t even know what I’m doing in 1972...or 1976...or 1980...or 198...oh wait! I know what I am doing in 1984. Whew!
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Raising Consciousness
During the summer of 1964, a major destination for millions of people was the New York World’s Fair in Flushing Meadows. Located near the brand-new Shea Stadium, the fair hosted such attractions as the very first Ford Mustang automobile and Walt Disney’s “Children of the World” water boat ride (which featured a large international collection of audio-animatronic dolls). Meanwhile an attraction of a different kind was making its’ way across America. Onboard a psychedelically-painted school bus christened Further was a group of people called the Merry Pranksters who were led by author Ken Kesey (who wrote the 1962 novel “One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest”). They were driving from California to New York on a mission to enthusiastically promote everywhere they went a drug called LSD. Also known as acid, LSD was a psychedelic drug which when taken altered your awareness of your surroundings, altered your perceptions of colors, and created hallucinations inside your mind. LSD at the time was becoming a gateway for those who were seeking “liberation” from the traditional way of doing things. Dissatisfaction with the current culture in America was leading people to build a counterculture which embraced challenges to the status quo like recreational drug use, equal rights for African-Americans and women, and freedom of speech on college campuses. The Merry Pranksters’ LSD-fueled road trip that summer was a sign that the times were a-changin’.

One person who was dissatisfied with the way things were was Malcolm Forbes. After twelve years of Democratic rule, Forbes felt that the country was stuck in a rut. Twelve years of doing the same-old thing had produced stagnation and a sense of restlessness among the electorate. Forbes wanted to change all that, so he ran for President on the argument that he would get America moving again just as he got his home state of New Jersey moving again. There was one thing in particular that he badly wanted to change. He had seen it during his tenure as New Jersey Governor and during the Republican Presidential primaries. It was the slums of America’s cities, where people (many of whom were black) were trapped in miserable poverty-stricken lives. Without jobs to earn a paycheck, these people were stuck in run-down neighborhoods with no way out. Feeling that their lives were never going to get better, inhabitants of the slums meagerly went day-after-day without any hope and with plenty of despair. This heartbreaking climate made the slums a breeding ground for crime, welfare, and broken families. Here in the slums, one-fifth of all black children were deserted by their fathers. Without a father to raise them, these poor children were more likely to join gangs and either get themselves killed or jailed. Sure there was Federal help in the form of welfare checks; but as Forbes duly noted, they weren’t having much of a positive effect. After visiting a Chicago slum, he told reporters:
“Our government is presently giving these people money to live on. But these people need more than a check in the mail every month. They need a good life.”
“The problem with liberals,”
he observed, “Is that they want to feel like they are making a difference. They want to feel like they are helping people out. But they do not want to take the time to find out if what they are doing is making any real progress.”
Believing that the current welfare system was failing to address the problems in the slums, Forbes decided to make welfare reform one of the central planks of his 1964 campaign. He wanted to change the welfare system from simply handing out checks to creating hope for a better future. The way to do that was though job creation, which he viewed as being the key to everything. Under his reform proposal:
  • The government would help men find work on public works projects wherever possible
  • The government would help men go to school to become teachers
  • The government would increase funding for job-training and apprenticeship programs
By helping men get jobs, Forbes believed it would create a positive ripple effect throughout the slums. Having a job would allow men to earn their own paychecks, eliminating the need for welfare checks. Men who were earning money would be able to support their household, encouraging them to marry and raise their children instead of abandoning them. Children who were being raised in a stable two-parent home would be more likely to stay out of gangs and stay in school to further their education. As the climate of these neighborhoods turned around, businesses would be more likely to move in, growing the local economy. All this just by giving a person a job. “A job,” Forbes proclaimed, “Is the greatest weapon we have against welfare. It gives the individual a purpose, a sense that they can make their lives better through the sweat of their own brow.”

(A New York City slum)
It was this conscious desire to help people that compelled over 1,000 college students from across the North to head south to Mississippi that summer of 1964. Bob Moses, the twenty-nine-year-old field secretary for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, had organized a volunteer campaign to help African-Americans in Mississippi register to vote as well as to provide them with educational opportunities. Moses officially called it the Mississippi Summer Project; it would become better known as Freedom Summer. Freedom Summer came about as a response to Jackson's crowning achievement: the Voting Rights Act of 1963. Although the law made it illegal to prevent African-Americans from registering to vote, white officials in the South weren’t exactly going out of their way to register as many blacks as possible. This was especially true in Mississippi, which had the lowest percentage of registered African-American voters in the entire country. At the time Jackson signed the Voting Rights Act into law, only 6.7% of eligible black voters in Mississippi were registered. Since then, increasing that number had been slow going. To rectify this situation, Moses put together Freedom Summer. SNCC dispatched recruiters to college campuses across the country to seek out volunteers who would like to “help the Mississippi Negro.”
Over 1,000 students, 90% of whom were white and many of whom were Jewish, signed up for the project. After receiving one week of training, the volunteers boarded Greyhound buses to take them south to the Magnolia State.

(Voter registration)
For ten weeks, trained volunteers flooded Mississippi to register blacks who had never been allowed to vote before because of racial discrimination. In total, 16,000 African-Americans were registered to vote that summer. Additionally, the Freedom Summer volunteers established forty-one so-called Freedom Schools all across Mississippi. These Freedom Schools were set up so blacks could receive free education in a state which spent an average of $81.66 to educate a white student but only $21.77 to educate a black student. In fact, many black children in rural areas received little if any education at all. Whatever education blacks did receive in school was inferior in quality and quantity compared to education whites received. Over 3,000 black students – their average age being 15 – attended Freedom Schools, which were set up in parks, residential homes, churches...wherever there was space available. They were taught lessons in such subject matters as voter literacy, political organization, basic reading and arithmetic, black history, and civil rights. The eagerness of the black students to learn and engage in the improvised classrooms (which in some cases were right outside beneath trees) impressed many volunteer teachers. One of those college student teachers, Pam Parker, wrote afterwards:
“The atmosphere in the class is unbelievable. It is what every teacher dreams about – real, honest enthusiasm and desire to learn anything and everything. The girls come to class of their own free will. They respond to everything that is said. They are excited about learning. They drain me of everything that I have to offer so that I go home at night completely exhausted but very happy in spirit.”

The great progress Freedom Summer achieved came at a price. By helping blacks, the volunteers made themselves targets for whites who deeply resented their activities. It was bad enough, they thought, that the Jackson Administration was waging war on their much cherished Jim Crow system of racial segregation. Now these damn Yankees were in their midst, stirring up unwanted trouble! Throughout the summer, volunteers were regularly subjected to harassment and acts of violence by both the police and racist organizations like the Ku Klux Klan in a concerted effort to either stop them outright or slow them down. Over the course of the ten-week project:
  • 354 volunteers were arrested
  • 80 volunteers were beaten
  • 4 volunteers were killed
  • 4 volunteers were shot but survived
  • 37 churches were either bombed or torched by arsonists
  • 30 homes or businesses were either bombed or torched by arsonists
On June 21st, three volunteers – James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael Schwerner – were arrested in Philadelphia, Mississippi for allegedly speeding. After spending several hours sitting in their jail cells, the three young men were allowed to leave in the middle of the night. They promptly vanished without a trace, making national news. When officials in Mississippi refused to conduct a search for them, the Justice Department stepped in. Attorney General Roger Ledyard ordered 150 Federal agents to head to Mississippi to search for Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. Ledyard, who greatly despised white Southerners for always acting as though the law never applied to them, confided to the President that “I would not be surprised at all if we find out that the police down there are the ones behind the disappearance of these three men. After all, in the South the criminals are the ones who are in charge of the police.”
On August 4th, forty-four days after Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner vanished without a trace, a tip led searchers to an open field outside Philadelphia. There, buried in a shallow grave, were the corpses of the three missing volunteers. All three men had been badly beaten up and had been shot to death.

Now that the three men had been found, the Justice Department worked backwards to determine how they got there in the first place. According to the official government report, the Philadelphia police – which was in cahoots with the KKK – had released Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner into the custody of Klansmen. Given white resentment for these Yankee invaders, the Klansmen risked nothing by mercilessly beating up the three men and then shooting them to death. Their bodies were then thrown into the back of a pick-up truck and driven to a field outside the town, where they were crudely buried. With help from an informant inside the KKK, investigators were able to identify men whom they alleged had participated in the murders. On December 4th, eighteen suspects – members of the Philadelphia police and Klansmen – were arrested and indicted on Federal murder charges. In the subsequent murder trial which took place at the Federal courthouse in Meridian, Mississippi, a jury of seven white men and five white women (the defense attorneys had successfully blocked the selection of any black jurors) convicted seven of the eighteen defendants for the three murders. It became the first time anyone in Mississippi was convicted for killing those who had ties to civil rights. The seven convicted men then received sentences ranging from three to ten years, although none of them served more than six years behind bars. As for Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner, they became martyrs of the Civil Rights Movement. Three men who had been killed because they were helping blacks exercise their right to vote and their right to obtain a decent education. Two rights which during the Jackson years went from being regularly ignored by white Americans to being at the forefront of their consciousness.
 
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Sometimes, when I I read about that events, I wonder if Mississipi and some other places are within the United States.

Or even in the XXI Century.l
 
Sometimes, when I I read about that events, I wonder if Mississipi and some other places are within the United States.

Or even in the XXI Century.l
I'm glad it's not just me who thinks that sort of thing.

Forbes is ambitious for the transformative power of work, it's a noble aim but I fear he is expecting too much. Still, even if his grander plans fail helping large chunks of a disadvantages community is a good thing in itself so it's a good idea whatever happens.
 
I'm glad it's not just me who thinks that sort of thing.


Indeed, Pip. Sometimes some corners of the Old South seems to be still living in 1861.
 
Ah hippies, always going out of their way to make the things I believe in look profoundly stupid. Some of the worst allies ever.
Forbes has a good point about work, but it needs to be paired with a focus on access to and development of better housing. Stuff like redlining negates the benefits from quality employment opportunities.
The South keeps being the South of course. Gonna be 'fun' to see how that stuff goes down in this timeline.
Now I just can't wait to see if Jackson even gets to make it to November. Forbes vs. McGovern seems like a more interesting match up. A prairie populist versus the ultimate Eastern accountant. It would be like the least violent Western movie ever.
 
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Kurt_Steiner: My grandmother went to Mississippi once but quickly left when the locals made it known that they didn’t appreciate Northerners like her on their turf. :(

El Pip: Forbes is all about jobs, and if anyone in particular needs a job, it’s those who live in the slums. Even if Forbes is overestimating the benefits of creating jobs, the fact that he wants to do more to help those living in abject poverty than simply handing them welfare checks to live on is admirable.

Kurt_Steiner: Hence the need to force change on the South.

SirNolan: Moving into the mid-1960s, this is the time when hippies start to emerge. Expect a visit to Haight-Ashbury in the future.

That is a good point.

We are certainly going to have “fun” in 1965.

“It would be like the least violent Western movie ever.” Hmm...:p

McGovern: Draw your guns, Malcolm!
Forbes: I don’t need to draw my guns, George. I can just foreclose on your house.
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The 1964 Republican National Convention
While the Presidential primaries were the main focus of political attention in the spring and early summer of 1964, there were other primaries going on to select candidates who would fill the ballot in November. One primary in particular stands out. Down in Texas, Republicans went to the polls on May 2nd to choose their nominee for the United States Senate. Until 1964, the idea of a Republican Senator from Texas was inconceivable. The Lone Star State had been a one-party state since the end of Reconstruction in the 1870s, with the Democratic primaries being the real election contest. However, things began to change in the early 1960s as the Democratic Party in Texas became bitterly divided between conservative and liberal factions. The two factions refused to support each other, both claiming that the other didn’t truly speak for Texans. This provided Texas Republicans, long maligned in the state, an opening to make gains. The election of John Tower as Governor in 1962 marked the first time the GOP won statewide office in Texas, signaling the beginning of the Lone Star State as a two-party state. Tower’s unprecedented victory suddenly made Senator Ralph Yarborough vulnerable. The leader of the liberal Democratic faction, Yarborough now faced a tough re-election battle in 1964 as his liberalism became a liability for him. As one Republican who sought to unseat him pointed out, Yarborough had “voted down the line with the Fair Deal.”
That Republican was George Bush. A thirty-nine-year-old originally from New England, Bush had moved to Texas after World War Two to earn a fortune in the booming oil industry. He then entered politics, making a name for himself as a devoted and tireless campaign fundraiser for Tower’s two unsuccessful Senate bids and successful gubernatorial bid. Ambitious and energetic, the man who had never held elected office before decided to set his sights high by running for the Senate. Bush crisscrossed the state, shaking as many hands as he could. His wife Barbara tagged along, doing her needlepoint while listening to her husband deliver the same campaign speech for the umpteenth time. In a crowded field of several candidates, Bush came out of the May 2nd primary with 44% of the vote. Since no one got the majority of the votes, Bush and second-place finisher Jack Cox (a former gubernatorial nominee) faced off in a runoff election a month later – a first for Texas Republicans. Thanks to his fundraising experience, Bush outraised Cox by a margin of four-to-one. Trailing far behind in the money race, Cox attacked his rival over it:
“Just as surely as Rockefeller’s millions can’t buy the presidential nomination, George Bush with his millions can’t buy a Senate seat.”
Bush defended his fundraising:
“I am not going to apologize for running a properly financed campaign. My goal is to beat Yarborough. He is going to have many thousands of dollars from organized labor, which means I have to meet strength with strength.”
On June 6th, Bush defeated Cox in the runoff election and became the Republican Senate nominee. Campaigning hard against Yarborough that summer and fall, Bush was determined to win and make history by becoming the first Republican Texas Senator in nearly a century. Observers felt he had a shot. “The more widely Bush can make himself known,” wrote “The Dallas Morning News”, “It appears the better his chances will be.”

Six weeks after Bush won the runoff election, Republicans gathered in San Francisco, California for their quadrennial nominating convention. Their venue was the Cow Palace; opened in April 1941, the indoor arena had originally been called the California State Livestock Pavilion and was in fact owned by the California Department of Food and Agriculture. In 1956, the GOP held their convention here which nominated former CIA Director Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. for President. Eight years later, the Republicans returned to the Cow Palace to nominate a Presidential candidate who would hopefully break their losing streak. The Party of Lincoln had lost the last three elections and was tired of being in the political wilderness. This time around the Republicans stood poised to nominate Malcolm Forbes for President. Although Forbes looked more like an accountant than someone who could be the leader of the free world, he had demonstrated during his two terms as New Jersey Governor that he knew how to run the government efficiently. For the party out of power in 1964, that was apparently good enough. On paper, Forbes went into the Cow Palace with enough delegates to secure the nomination on the first ballot. I say “on paper” because in reality he faced stiff opposition from conservative grassroots who strongly favored Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater. Although Goldwater dropped out of the race following his second place finish in the winner-take-all California primary and announced his support for Forbes, his diehard supporters refused to follow his lead. They had worked so hard to secure the Presidential nomination for Goldwater that they were unwilling to accept anyone else for the top of the ticket. Forbes’ genuine efforts to reach out to them and build party unity were routinely spurned. The conservative grassroots were determined to fight to the bitter end on the convention floor.

On Monday, July 13th, convention chairman Charles A. Halleck gaveled the 1964 Republican National Convention into order. California Governor William F. Knowland then mounted the podium to give the welcoming address to the 1,308 delegates gathered on the convention floor below him. Noting that he had been the party’s 1960 Presidential nominee, Knowland joked that “although you have not come here to the great city of San Francisco to nominate me again for a second term, I take heart in the fact that here in this city, you will nominate the next President of the United States.”
That night, Oregon Governor Mark Hatfield delivered the traditional keynote speech. In it, he portrayed the Democratic Party as being stuck in the mud of the past:
“For the last twelve years, we have had three Administrations that have all feared the future. They have relied on the ways of the past, especially the mid-30s. Their records are those of reaction, not of progress. The fact is that the current Administration looks to the Administration of Franklin Roosevelt as its role model, an Administration thirty years in the past.”
Hatfield stressed the need for new forward-looking leadership:
“This nation cannot afford to follow the banners of retreat and reaction. This Republic needs new leadership...leadership that is not afraid of the future. We need to ponder – and seriously – what four more years of reluctant backing into tomorrow would do to this nation. We need leadership that does not fear the facts or fear the future.”
And guess which political party offered that:
“The Republican Party offers America a choice: a choice between fear and faith in the future.”
Tuesday, July 14th saw the convention formally approve the party platform. The Republican platform painted Jackson as being a failed President out of touch with the times and offered a clear path out of the mess created by twelve years of Democratic rule. The 1964 platform was conservative in tone but one that – in the words of “Time” magazine – “any Republican can run on.”
Time was set aside that second night for speeches by the two living former Republican Presidents. Herbert Hoover (1929-1933), a convention mainstay for three decades, was forced to miss this convention due to poor health. Growing increasingly ill and frail, the 31st President would pass away the following October at age 90. Thomas E. Dewey (1945-1953) mounted the podium and proceeded to attack the Democrats' economic record. The 35th President warned the country not to expect any economic improvements if the party in power won again for the fourth straight time in November:
“The Democrats have spent twelve straight years in the White House and what do they have to show for it? Nothing. Their program is one of failure: failure to create decent wages and failure to create jobs."
"Let me ask you: can a party which has not balanced the government’s budget in the past twelve years do so in the next four years? (Shouts of “No!” from the convention audience)
Can a party which has spent the past twelve years taxing and spending with nothing to show for it do any better in the next four years? (More shouts of “No!”)
Can a party which has driven our nation deep into debt these past twelve years be expected to get our nation out of debt the next four years? (“No!”)”


(The New York delegation, led by Governor Nelson Rockefeller)
Wednesday, July 15th was the big day: the day in which the roll call for the Presidential nomination would be held. A candidate needed 655 delegates for the nomination. As noted previously, Forbes on paper had enough delegates to secure victory on the first ballot...but he faced diehard conservative grassroots who would mount a final stand on the convention floor to try to wrestle the nomination away from him. That morning the New Jersey Governor warmly hosted breakfast for Goldwater and his family, and held meetings with former rivals California Senator Richard Nixon and Michigan Governor George Romney to secure their support for the fall campaign. That night in his suite at the St. Francis Hotel, Forbes settled in with his family and campaign team to watch the roll call on television. Steve Forbes, who was about to turn seventeen at the time, later compared the atmosphere inside the hotel suite to the Academy Awards:
“Watching that balloting process was a lot like watching the Oscars. We were sitting on the edge of our seats, waiting to hear if my father’s name would be called or not.”
Inside the Cow Palace, the air was thick with emotions as the nominating process finally got under way. Given the emotional mood, it didn’t take much to set people off. When New Jersey Senator Robert Kean gave his speech formally entering Forbes’ name into nomination as “our next President of the United States”, there was a scattering of boos from the pro-Goldwater crowd. Despite a last ditch effort by the grassroots to convert Forbes delegates into Goldwater delegates, just after 10:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, Forbes crossed the 655 mark. He won the Republican Presidential nomination on the first ballot with a total of 752 votes. It should have been a moment of sweet victory for Forbes, having worked so hard to get to this point. Instead the newly-minted GOP standard-bearer watched silently as fervent Goldwater supporters, angry that they had lost the battle, booed the nomination of yet another member of the Eastern Establishment and shouted “We want Barry! We want Barry!”
For the millions of Americans watching live on the three television networks, it was a shocking display of bad sportsmanship. Those who lost were expected by society to be good sports about it, but the passion of the Goldwater crowd was such that being good sports was almost impossible. Forbes’ seemingly-eternal silence was finally broken when a nearby black telephone rang. His campaign manager went over to answer it and then called out to Forbes:
“It’s Barry. He wants to talk to you.”
Getting up from out of his chair, the Governor quickly stepped over and grabbed the phone receiver. On the other end of the line, the Senator congratulated his former rival for winning the Republican nomination. He then asked with indignation:
“Are you seeing this spectacle on TV?”
When Forbes replied that he was, Goldwater let it be known that he didn’t approve the sore loser behavior of his supporters. “Christ, this is no way to behave,” he stated with indignation. “You won the nomination fair and square. I am going to put a stop to this.”
Sure enough, minutes later Goldwater made a dramatic appearance inside the highly emotional convention hall. After hearing the insistent chants of “We want Barry!”, Mr. Conservative proceeded to sternly admonish his diehard supporters for their behavior.
“Some of us don’t agree with the choice this convention made in regards to the Presidential nominee of our party,” he said with all eyes focused on him, “But I might remind you that this is always true in every convention of an American political party. In spite of the individual points of difference, the Republican nominee deserves the support of every one of us.”
Putting it bluntly, Goldwater told conservatives to put their personal feelings aside and support Forbes. He warned that “radical Democrats” were counting on the San Francisco convention to produce a sharply divided Republican Party. The way to prevent that from happening was to get behind Forbes. Goldwater reminded his disappointed followers (among them a sixteen-year-old girl in Illinois named Hillary Rodham) that he was supporting his former rival, “although he and I do disagree on a few points.”
“This country,”
he declared at the end of his improvised effort to verbally whip his unruly supporters back into line, “Is too important for anyone’s feelings. This country, and its majesty, is too great for any man, be he conservative or liberal, to stay home and not work just because he doesn’t agree. Let’s grow up, conservatives! If we want to take this country back, and I think we can this year, let’s get to work! Governor Forbes wants to work with us; we need to work with him!”

Goldwater’s speech helped soothe raw feelings inside the Cow Palace. Although some bitter-enders accused him of “betraying” conservatives by endorsing Forbes, there was a general recognition once heads had cooled that as disappointing as it was that Goldwater wouldn’t be the GOP nominee in 1964, Forbes at least was someone conservatives could deal with on good faith. Conservatives could put up with him for now and try to win the nomination again later. By giving his forceful speech, Goldwater had demonstrated – in the words of one television commentator – that “his commitment to the party is absolutely clear. He isn’t just on an ideological crusade. He is a Republican.”
Now that the top of the Republican ticket had been decided, attention immediately turned to filling out the other half of the ticket. There was a natural assumption after Forbes had been nominated that he would pick Goldwater as his running mate. It was an assumption that made political sense. Putting Goldwater on the ticket would be a huge boost for party unity and give the conservative grassroots the consolation that “At least our man is a heartbeat away.” It would balance the ticket regionally and ideologically, putting the GOP in a stronger position heading into November. However, there was a catch. Shortly after the California primary, Forbes had called on Goldwater at his home in Phoenix, Arizona. During their meeting, the Governor was informed by the Senator that having dropped out of the Presidential race, he was going to focus squarely on seeking re-election to the Senate in the fall. Although Goldwater didn’t outright say that he wouldn’t accept the running mate slot if offered, Forbes came out of the meeting with the impression that Goldwater wanted to remain in the Senate going forward and not leave his seat to become Vice President. So Forbes didn’t ask Goldwater to run with him (when asked later if it bothered him that he didn’t get the offer, Goldwater would answer “No”). If not Forbes-Goldwater, then what would the ticket be? The answer came on the morning of Thursday, July 16th. At his first press conference as the Republican Presidential nominee, Forbes unveiled his pick: Senate Minority Leader Everett Dirksen of Illinois.

Why Dirksen? Dirksen was chosen to fill the running mate slot because Forbes regarded him as being the perfect choice in several ways. Dirksen was a Midwesterner, which would balance the ticket geographically. Furthermore he represented Illinois, a must-win state with 26 electoral votes. Dirksen was a conservative, which would balance the ticket ideologically. Dirksen had been in Washington for three decades, and his intimate knowledge of the ways of Washington would be helpful for a Washington newbie like Forbes. Dirksen was a leading supporter of civil rights, which would help attract black votes. Dirksen strongly supported the Vietnam War, and having him on the ticket would reinforce Forbes’ campaign message of staying the course in Vietnam. Dirksen had a flamboyant style, which would help balance out Forbes’ image as a nerdy accountant. “No matter how you look at Ev,” Forbes told his aides, “He’s perfect. He’s exactly what I need.”
For Dirksen, accepting the running mate slot meant not only leaving his post as Senate Minority Leader (which he had held since 1959) but also giving up the potential to become Senate Majority Leader. On the other hand, Dirksen recognized that Forbes wasn’t like the other Eastern Establishment Republicans. Forbes genuinely wanted to bring conservatives into the fold; by serving as Vice President, Dirksen would give conservatives a credible voice at the table of policy-making. Putting the party first, the Senate Minority Leader agreed to run on the ticket. The announcement was well-received at the convention, which nominated Dirksen for Vice President unanimously. Having put forward the Forbes-Dirksen ticket, all that was left for the convention to do that Thursday night was listening to Forbes’ acceptance speech. As part of his overall strategy of building party unity, Forbes asked one of his former rivals – Senator Nixon – to introduce him at the convention. Relishing a moment in the national spotlight, Nixon did his best to work up the crowd. He proclaimed that “Governor Forbes is offering something to the American people that Senator McGovern cannot: a plan to get this great country moving again. After the last twelve years, America is ready to get moving again...and that is why we are going to win!”
Nixon predicted to a cheering convention that on November 3rd, the electorate would reward the Republican Party – “the party of new leadership” – with not only the White House but also the Senate. Already controlling the House of Representatives since 1959, this would give the GOP complete control over the Federal Government for the first time since 1951. The California Senator concluded his speech:
“Ladies and gentlemen, it is my honor to present to you the man who we right now call Mr. Governor but who, after the greatest campaign in history, will be called Mr. President: Malcolm Forbes!”

Amidst a sea of applause and cheers, Forbes stepped up to the podium to accept his party’s nomination for President. He stood still for a moment, seemingly absorbing the awesome fact that he was now one campaign away from becoming the 39th President of the United States. After the cheering had died down, Forbes started off his acceptance speech by thanking Nixon for his enthusiastic introduction. He then thanked Goldwater for his “gracious support” in helping to “unite this great Republican Party so we may meet the challenges ahead together.”
“With pride and a sense of deep humility for the responsibility that comes with it, I accept your nomination. With shared determination, we will win together.”

Indeed, party unity was the central theme of his acceptance speech. Several times throughout, Forbes appealed to “my fellow Republicans” to put whatever personal feelings they had aside and work together to achieve victory in November. “The Democrats doubt we can come together and win. They believe we are a house divided. We are going to prove them wrong.”
“Victory will be ours,”
he proclaimed, “Because we are all devoted to the same singular purpose: to give the American people a better future than what they have today.”
Across the country there was what Forbes called “stagnation”, a feeling that the country was stuck in neutral, that people weren’t getting ahead in life like they used to. The cause of this stagnation was “the New Deal philosophy, which the Democratic Party has been rooted to for the past thirty years.”
Under the New Deal philosophy, personal empowerment had been replaced by a highly-centralized Federal Government which believed it and it alone could solve everyone’s ills. “The result has been a series of feel-good measures which in practice has done very little to improve the lives of our fellow Americans. The New Deal philosophy failed to lift people out of the terrible depression of the ‘30s and is still failing to lift our people today.”
According to Forbes, the signs of failure were everywhere. You could see the failure at kitchen tables across America, where adults sat and wondered if their livelihoods would improve any time soon. You could see the failure in the inability of young Americans to find good opportunities for their futures. You could see the failure in the slums of America’s cities, where “our Negro citizens are trapped in lives of misery and despair. And what has the New Deal philosophy done for them? The same thing it has done for everyone else who has a problem: give them a check in the mail and a pat on the head.”
With the failures of the New Deal philosophy abundant, Forbes labeled the Democratic Party “the party of stagnation. The party which does the same old thing because the same old thing is all they know how to do.”
Clearly the country needed to change course. The Republican Presidential nominee wanted to return to “the proven Republican ways” of empowering the individual to improve their own lives. In sharp contrast to the current stagnation under the Democrats, he reminded his audience both inside the convention hall and nationally via television that the last time a Republican occupied the White House, “we witnessed the greatest period of economic prosperity in our nation’s history.”
Under President Dewey, the country enjoyed a vibrant postwar economy where millions of returning World War Two veterans was able to receive college educations, was able to afford their own homes in massed-produced neighborhoods called suburbs, and was able to start their families (which kicked off a massive growth in population known as the Baby Boom). Forbes said the country could once again experience that kind of prosperity “only if we return to the Republican ways, which unlike the New Deal philosophy, has proven to work.”

(Malcolm Forbes, circa 1987)
Turning to foreign policy in his acceptance speech, Forbes took his likely Democratic rival George McGovern head-on over what would be a major issue in the fall campaign. “Tonight we are a nation at war in Vietnam. It is a war we need to fight. It is a war we need to win. It is a war Senator McGovern is determined to lose.”
Forbes gave Jackson credit for recognizing the strategic importance of South Vietnam and being willing to use military force to stabilize the country in the face of Chinese efforts to destroy the country from within. “One only has to look at what happened in Laos to see the future of Southeast Asia should we abandon the region to the Chinese as Senator McGovern wants to do. In Laos, self-determination has been replaced by what the Chinese call ‘guidance’ from their government. Laos has lost her freedom, and Vietnam and Cambodia and Thailand will lose their freedom should we completely withdraw as Senator McGovern wants to do.”
As President, Forbes vowed to stay the course in Vietnam until victory was won. Victory, as clearly defined in 1962, meant destroying the Viet Cong and stabilizing South Vietnam so the bulk of US forces could be safely withdrawn. “I will not allow the free people of Southeast Asia to fall into Chinese captivity. Senator McGovern will, but I will not.”
Pointing to recent Defense Department statistics showing that the United States had so far suffered 2,108 casualties in Vietnam, the Republican standard-bearer warned that “the worse thing we can do for those young men who will come home from Vietnam carrying with them the wounds of war, or come home in flag-draped coffins, is to tell them that their sacrifices had been in vain. That after their blood had been shed in the name of defending Vietnam, we decided to abandon Vietnam to her fate. That is the worse thing we can do for them...and we must not do that.”
Another foreign policy issue Forbes discussed in his speech was nuclear weapons testing. He noted that next September would mark nineteen years since “one bomb, of a magnitude never before conceived by mankind, completely destroyed the Japanese city of Nagoya.”
The Japanese learned firsthand how devastating nuclear weapons could be and since then “we have all learned how much power these weapons hold. Therefore, it does not make much sense to continually test these weapons to see what they can do. We already know the terrible answer.”
He attacked Jackson’s lack of action on negotiating with the Soviets a curb on nuclear testing as “dangerous” and painted McGovern as someone who wanted to negotiate from a position of weakness. Forbes explained his belief that any negotiations with the Soviets concerning peace had to be done so from a position of strength in order to ensure the best possible outcome. “Senator McGovern wants to unilaterally stop our nation’s testing of nuclear weapons before asking the Soviets to do the same. My fellow Americans, that is not how you negotiate. Once the Soviets see that we are weak, they will have no incentive to take our diplomatic efforts seriously. And why should they? The Soviets only respect strength; they have no respect for weakness.”
To those who viewed the mere suggestion of talking to the Communist superpower as a sign of surrender:
“I want to make this abundantly clear: I will not surrender America’s security to any nation...but I will not be afraid to seek out ways to improve our security with other nations.”
Forbes concluded his acceptance speech by returning to his central theme of party unity. He contended that the Republican Party could take the country in the right direction only if “we Republicans strive to do the necessary work together. If we want a country where opportunity is abundant for all our people, business is thriving, and power rests in the hands of the people, then we have to work together. If we want a government that follows the Constitution, spends the money we take from our people wisely, and does not seek to be the master over the daily lives of our people, then we have to work together. My fellow Republicans, we have to work together because we all share a sacred duty to do what is right for our country. This election is not about me. This election is not about you. This election is about our country.”
After he finished speaking, the new standard-bearer of the Republican Party was joined at the podium by his wife Roberta, his running mate Dirksen, and his wife Louella. Forbes and Dirksen posed together while the convention cheered them and signs were held up promoting the ticket. Republicans left the Cow Palace ready for the fall election, believing that an electorate disillusioned by and disappointed in the Democrats meant that the fourth time would be the charm.
 
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Interesting call out to Hillary there. Wonder if she will play any important roll in this AAR...
Regarding Forbes, I expect a mixed Presidency. He seems competent, and a pragmatic foreign policy pursued by someone with more morals than Nixon has some potential. The economy might prove good or bad for Forbes. Escalation in Vietnam I do not predict to go very well for Forbes. Even if you win, I expect a lot of Americans would die, and it will leave a bit of a bitter taste in the mouths of the everyday Americans. Of course, if the US ends up at war with China, that might change everything XD.
My hopes for Forbes:
Some sorta Detente with the USSR. It would help in escalating Vietnam, and possibly increasing tensions with China, if the Soviets were a bit less aggresive, and kinda left America alone in the Pacific.
Not tanking the US economy: self explanatory
Movement on Civil Rights: With Dickerson on the ticket, I have high hopes for this
China: Hopefully Forbes does not start a war with them. That would save lives XD.

Of course, you might throw a total curve ball, and McGovern could win. That could be very interesting. Maybe Congress will try to force escalation in Vietnam against the wishes of McGovern? See some nice conflict between the branches? Still, I think Forbes will win.
(that was a longer post that I intended. Oh well)
 
I, for once, like very much the Rep candidate. Let's hope I won't regret this...
 
OH MY GOD, Hilary Clinton is a conservative! Because you've decided to created the greatest alternate scenario in history why don't we go one step further, have Hillary marry George Bush Jr. There is only a one year age difference between them and George 43 didn't met Laura until 1977. I will not rest until this becomes the first couple of the United States!

The Republican convention went really well in 1964, seems like Forbes has the potential to become one of the greats, if only the GOP had this much unity in 2016. :( Really good choice of Everett Dirckson as the VP. Does this mean that RIchard Nixon could become the next Senate Majority Leader?

Can't wait to see the Democratic Convention. Bush for Senate 1964!