The price

[ArtFart]

Any justification for the high price on this DLC?

The DLC itself adds content to nations that already had previous DLC, and the content it adds is purely mission trees with limited other content. This doesn't warrant a price this high. The DLC has what seems to me like less valuable content compared with Lions of the North but is priced higher.

The DLC contains 7 "new" mission trees (almost all of them are basically just changes to the previous mission trees, which were DLC in the first place) and 3 smaller changes to other nations. It also includes a unit pack and some music (that's technically a separate DLC added as a pre order bonus). That's at a price of £16.75.

Lions of the North adds roughly 12 brand new mission trees, some of them being minor changes but most being complete overhauls. It added new units and new music too. That's at a price of £12.79.

So why does the new DLC cost more than Lions of the North but have indisputably less content? Inflation is a thing I am sure but I am not convinced this DLC should be priced at even £12. The Origins price of £8.50 makes much more sense.

 

[grotaclas]

I don't like it either that the new DLC somewhat replaces missions from previous DLCs, but there is more in Domination than you acknowledge.

Domination adds 9 new special units. From the paradox store page:

New Special Units
Three new types of Land special units - ‘Samurai’ for Japan, ‘Tercios for Spain, and ‘Musketeers’ for France, and a new feature of Naval special units, with 6 special units for Portugal, Spain, Great Britain, Korea, Netherlands, and Genoa and Venice.

It also includes a unit pack and some music (that's technically a separate DLC added as a pre order bonus)

Domination includes 9 new songs which are in addition to the 6 from the pre-order bonus. Lions of the North only had 6 songs in total.

It also adds two new estates (Janissaries and eunuchs) and at least two new subject types(eyalet, commercial enterprise). And there are new government reforms and estate privileges:

Added government reforms and estate privileges for many major nations. For example, the Ottomans get a dozen new reforms, and Russia a dozen new privileges for their Nobles (‘Boyars) and Burghers.

 

[Johan]

I'm not entirely sure what the complaint is?

We've priced major expansions at 20$ since 2007, when we first released Napoleons Ambition for EU3.

If you want to compare Lions of the North to Domination and the amount of content added. Both have 13 mission trees, 6 major in Lions, 8 major in Domination. But where Domination grows is lots of new game mechanics where Lions had none. 9 unique units where Lions had 2. 9 new songs where Lions had 6 etc. More estate privileges, estates & government reforms and much more.

 

[ArtFart]

I don't like it either that the new DLC somewhat replaces missions from previous DLCs, but there is more in Domination than you acknowledge.

Domination adds 9 new special units. From the paradox store page:



Domination includes 9 new songs which are in addition to the 6 from the pre-order bonus. Lions of the North only had 6 songs in total.

It also adds two new estates (Janissaries and eunuchs) and at least two new subject types(eyalet, commercial enterprise). And there are new government reforms and estate privileges:

Lions of the North added 2 new units, 35 new peices of art and 6 songs + estate privalges. And the main bulk of the content for these packs are the mission trees, which Lions of the North beats Domination by 3, and those mission trees in LotN are new and not redo's of old DLC content...

Still doesn't justify the price tag under any circumstances, it should match LotN's price or be even cheaper.

 

[grommile]

I solve all problems with DLC prices in a simple way:

I assess their value to me, and don't buy them at a price above that value.

 

[ArtFart]

I'm not entirely sure what the complaint is?

We've priced major expansions at 20$ since 2007, when we first released Napoleons Ambition for EU3.

If you want to compare Lions of the North to Domination and the amount of content added. Both have 13 mission trees, 6 major in Lions, 8 major in Domination. But where Domination grows is lots of new game mechanics where Lions had none. 9 unique units where Lions had 2. 9 new songs where Lions had 6 etc. More estate privileges, estates & government reforms and much more.

Where did you get 13 new mission trees for Domination from? According to the Steam Store page it lists 10. That includes the small changes made to Korea, Prussia and Portugal. Are there more to be annouced or is this just a miscount from me or you?

As for my complaints, I am not happy with the fact the DLC is so expensive (matching the price of major expansions like Leviathan) when it has signficantly less content. It's also just a re-use of old DLC content such as Golden Century, Rule Britannia, Third Rome, Emperor and Mandate of Heaven. They are mission trees that we already had, that have now been re-done at a signficantly premium price. To add to that, the DLC's that it has overwritten haven't changed price as of yet.

I now understand that Domination is being advertised as a expansion, rather than an Immersion pack. That explains the price hike a bit, however I don't think the DLC has enough content to consider it to be an expansion, when the most recent expansion (Leviathan) added significantly more such as the favour system, monuments, development changes, colonial nations and 19 mission trees with music, units and artwork all included too.

 

[Aybara978NE]

I was also shocked at first with the price, but, on reflection, I don't think it is entirely out of line with previous expansions. Though perhaps this feels less like an "expansion" and more like an "immersion" pack because it seems less focused on a particular theme. Since they have stated that there won't be any more major gameplay changes, this might just be what a post-emperor / post-leviathan expansion will be like.

This may be controversial, but I don't have a problem with them charging for reworks to existing mission trees. Any rework costs time and money, and I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for compensation for their effort. The alternative would probably be never reworking existing mission trees. The old mission trees are still available for those who own the old DLCs.

As for the 13 mission trees Johan mentioned, all 13 are accounted for in the Domination Dev Diaries: Ming, Yue, Qing, Ottoman, Japan, Russia, France, Castile, Aragon, English, Portugal, Prussia, and Korea.

 

[ArtFart]

I was also shocked at first with the price, but, on reflection, I don't think it is entirely out of line with previous expansions. Though perhaps this feels less like an "expansion" and more like an "immersion" pack because it seems less focused on a particular theme. Since they have stated that there won't be any more major gameplay changes, this might just be what a post-emperor / post-leviathan expansion will be like.

This may be controversial, but I don't have a problem with them charging for reworks to existing mission trees. Any rework costs time and money, and I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for compensation for their effort. The alternative would probably be never reworking existing mission trees. The old mission trees are still available for those who own the old DLCs.

As for the 13 mission trees Johan mentioned, all 13 are accounted for in the Domination Dev Diaries: Ming, Yue, Qing, Ottoman, Japan, Russia, France, Castile, Aragon, English, Portugal, Prussia, and Korea.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the DLC should be free in any way, but what I am saying is charging the same price for this DLC compared to Leviathan is not a good idea or consumer friendly. I think the price should better reflect the quality and the amount of content in the pack, and the price should match immersion packs like Origins or Lions of the North, not expansions with vastly superior quality content and amount.

Thank you for the calcification on the amount of mission trees, odd this isn't mentioned on the store page, should probably be updated!

 

[Aybara978NE]

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the DLC should be free in any way, but what I am saying is charging the same price for this DLC compared to Leviathan is not a good idea or consumer friendly. I think the price should better reflect the quality and the amount of content in the pack, and the price should match immersion packs like Origins or Lions of the North, not expansions with vastly superior quality content and amount.

Thank you for the calcification on the amount of mission trees, odd this isn't mentioned on the store page, should probably be updated!

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you thought it should be free. I do agree that the price was shockingly high when I first saw it. My point was really that I don’t think we should discount the value of the mission tree changes, even if they are for nations touched by previous dlc.

My inclination is to say that there is more value here than a traditional immersion pack, but less value than a traditional expansion pack. But since they are not going to add any more sweeping gameplay changes (which I think is a good thing, let’s save that for EU5), this might be what to expect for expansion packs.

That said, I value the music and sprite packs a lot, so the extra music included with the pre-order is swaying my calculus.

 

[RichardOlcese]

Dear fellow EU4 players, please, just be reasonable. How would you spend that amount of money on a normal day? What would you buy with that? I know it varies from country to country (I am from Argentina, for instance), but in any case, would this amount of money buy a relatively budget meal? So, you're willing to pay this amount of money for a pizza and a soda, which is fine, but you complain when you are asked the very same amount of money for an important DLC for a complex game that requires a large team of professionals to develop, and that you will buy and own for life? Come on! If we love the game, we need to be supportive of the company and the people working on it. It's a fair price, it's a good product.

 

[MrSnert]

Without context you’re absolutely right to say that you’ll probably get good value for money out of this: several runs with all these fun nations is hours of gaming. However, there is context: namely the hundreds of bucks already spent on this game, for DLC’s that truthfully haven’t always been great and have created a situation where the nations featured in this DLC, some of the main player-nations in the game, have become outdated, outmatched and unfun. Rectifying this situation really should, IMO have been a matter of such import for the overal value, balance and quality of the game that it -yes I will say it- should have been free.

To me that, along with decent rollouts of the last expansion would have pretty much cleared the game/company from the horrible pit, reputation-wise, that it had dug itself over the last few years. Now they themselves have admitted to mistakes and all sorts of stuff, but what is being offered as a gesture to the loyal fans who have stuck with them through it all? Call it entitled, but I know plenty of games and other software that get updated without constantly demanding more money for the privilege of having a decently usuable, balanced product, and I don’t think that is too much to ask. Honestly, a more reasonable price-tag would have gone a long way. As is, the pricetag of this DLC is a reminder of the worst policies of this company, and has just opened some old wounds of this ol’ veteran… (which frankly, the apparently blissfully unaware blue comments above are sprinkling salt in.)

 

[heroes133]

In Poland i have to pay almost 100 polish zlotys for this DLC.
When you consider how much we make here in Poland compared to the west (much less) to us 100 zlotys is like 70-80$ for western ppl, it is alot of money for us. I would love to spend like 30-50 zlotys for the dlc but almost 100 is very high.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

In Poland i have to pay almost 100 polish zlotys for this DLC.
When you consider how much we make here in Poland compared to the west (much less) to us 100 zlotys is like 70-80$ for western ppl, it is alot of money for us. I would love to spend like 30-50 zlotys for the dlc but almost 100 is very high.

Isn't regional pricing determined by steam?

 

[heroes133]

Isn't regional pricing determined by steam?

Idk how or who convert it, but the point is them same more expensive dlc in euros = much much more expensive in zlotys. The conversion rate atm is 1 euro = 4,68 Złoty.

 

[iClipse]

Different people, different circumstances. Yet, I ordered a Pizza delivery last week. That was a 25 EUR cost. This DLC costs less than a single take-away delivery meal. I recon I will get a whole lot more pleasure from this DLC than I will have received from that Pizza (and it was delicious).

In general though, I find complaining about a price...Meaningless? If a price is too high, you don't buy it. I don't buy a Ferrari because I find it way too expensive. Doesn't mean I go complain to Ferrari that their price is too high.

Again, different product, different circumstances. Yet, there are alternatives as well. There is the 5 EUR subscription. You don't get locked out of the Spanish/British mission trees if you don't buy this content but had previous content. There is a big patch accompanying the DLC. The game is in its best state since years (imo). Most bugs have been patched. Most obviously broken stuff was changed.

You may call me a capitalist slave, but I'm honestly just a guy who's glad that his favorite game, a game that was released over 10 years ago, is still receiving content and love. And it's this continued support that makes stuff like Anbennar and Europa expanded thrive even more. So no, I don't mind paying 20 EURO's for something that will give me the equivalent of <0,10 cent an hour enjoyment.

 

[grommile]

So, you're willing to pay this amount of money for a pizza and a soda, which is fine, but you complain when you are asked the very same amount of money for an important DLC

This is not an important DLC.

The last genuinely important DLC was Dharma... and it was rendered unimportant a few updates later.

 

[heroes133]

Different people, different circumstances. Yet, I ordered a Pizza delivery last week. That was a 25 EUR cost. This DLC costs less than a single take-away delivery meal. I recon I will get a whole lot more pleasure from this DLC than I will have received from that Pizza (and it was delicious).

In general though, I find complaining about a price...Meaningless? If a price is too high, you don't buy it. I don't buy a Ferrari because I find it way too expensive. Doesn't mean I go complain to Ferrari that their price is too high.

Again, different product, different circumstances. Yet, there are alternatives as well. There is the 5 EUR subscription. You don't get locked out of the Spanish/British mission trees if you don't buy this content but had previous content. There is a big patch accompanying the DLC. The game is in its best state since years (imo). Most bugs have been patched. Most obviously broken stuff was changed.

You may call me a capitalist slave, but I'm honestly just a guy who's glad that his favorite game, a game that was released over 10 years ago, is still receiving content and love. And it's this continued support that makes stuff like Anbennar and Europa expanded thrive even more. So no, I don't mind paying 20 EURO's for something that will give me the equivalent of <0,10 cent an hour enjoyment.

Sure, Different people, different circumstances 100% agree.

Still if you spend 25 EUR for pizza i guess you are making a decent living and for someone like you 20 EUR is little. For others in less developed countries it might be too much.

And then you go to the 'Ferrari argument' and it is very flawed, this argument would make sense if Ferrari was the only car manufacturer then if you can't afford a ferrari you just dont drive a car, but is is not how this works, if you can't afford a ferrari you just go and buy a cheaper car, problem solved. With the DLC is not like that, you either buy it or don't, there are no options to buy a cheaper version at least for now... There are only 3 options :

-Buy DLC
-Buy Subscription (silly option when you already have all the previous dlcs)
-Wait some time for some promotion

I just fear that dlc's are getting so expensive that more and more ppl will just download a free crack version and that would be bad for all of us.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

Sure, Different people, different circumstances 100% agree.

Still if you spend 25 EUR for pizza i guess you are making a decent living and for someone like you 20 EUR is little. For others in less developed countries it might be too much.

And then you go to the 'Ferrari argument' and it is very flawed, this argument would make sense if Ferrari was the only car manufacturer then if you can't afford a ferrari you just dont drive a car, but is is not how this works, if you can't afford a ferrari you just go and buy a cheaper car, problem solved. With the DLC is not like that, you either buy it or don't, there are no options to buy a cheaper version at least for now... There are only 3 options :

-Buy DLC
-Buy Subscription (silly option when you already have all the previous dlcs)
-Wait some time for some promotion

I just fear that dlc's are getting so expensive that more and more ppl will just download a free crack version and that would be bad for all of us.

But the DLC is the same price as previous major expansions. Sure you can argue if its a major expansion or not.
But as Johan stated the price has been the same since 2007.

 

[Buladelu]

This is not an important DLC.

The last genuinely important DLC was Dharma... and it was rendered unimportant a few updates later.

I know what you're talking about. Dharma added a whole new big mechanic with government reforms. And a big button for said reforms on the main UI as if it's the most important button and you won't visit this screen mostly by an alert.

And I'm glad Paradox Tinto doesn't do that thing anymore, adding big shiny buttons and new universal mechanics. The game is big and bloated already. Spicing up specific playthroughs and adding more options like government reforms and idea groups is exactly what this game needs. An expansion like Domination is what every expansion should have been: I will buy it because I like what it adds and I will want to play these countries with these new additions. For a long time, Paradox pretended they can make modular gameplay by adding huge universal mechanics in optional DLCs and I'm glad they're no longer doing this.

 

[heroes133]

But the DLC is the same price as previous major expansions. Sure you can argue if its a major expansion or not.
But as Johan stated the price has been the same since 2007.

Idk what is happening then, I guess the conversion to Polish Zloty is much worse now bcs i have never paid this much for a dlc and i have all of them.

I will still buy the dlc but propably wait a month or so, hopefully there will be some better deal and all of the bugs will be fixed by then