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madchemist, please do the right thing. I urge you to take a chance on proposing a team structured around excluding the confirmed Spy team of Panzer Commader, tonkatoy5, aedan777, and Jacksonian Missionary. The worst that can happen is it is rejected, thus revealing some crucial voting behavior, and Cliges, who is also a known Resistance, makes the final proposal of the game.

Actually, aedan makes the last proposal, because of the talisman he got to start the round. So if you are indeed Resistance, my mission is the last chance for the Resistance to come out of this with a win.



I have very little to add to my previous analysis, but a quick summary is below:

I know for a fact that I am Resistance, Cliges is Resistance and Jacksonian is a spy. We as a group also know that Ironhead is a spy unless all three of Panzer, tonka, and aedan are, and that Jacksonian is a spy unless Ironhead, myself, and Cliges are all spies.

The question is, how are these things to be interpreted in the light of the sabotaged missions?

Mission 4 has the initial chain of contracts, myself, Cliges, and Jacksonian. Mission 4 also was sabotaged only once, and the spies needed to sabotage in order to not lose.

Option 1: Jacksonian was the only spy and he sabotaged. This is the simplest and most obvious explanation.
Option 2: Jacksonian is a spy along with Panzer but not with aedan (ignoring tonka's role for the moment), but somehow figured out that only one of them would sabotage.
Option 3: The entire contract chain is bad in addition to Jacksonian, and since the proposer was aedan, he was able to sabotage alone via the "proposer sabotages" rule.

I'm ruling out 2 right away. It seems too far-fetched. 1 and 3 remain possible.


Mission 5 was identical to 4, except that Jacksonian was replaced with 2kNikk/k-59/Ironhide. It was also sabotaged once. Precisely the same considerations apply: was there a lone spy on the mission sabotaging, the entire contract chain, or Panzer plus (possibly) one other? All three of these are possible, at least in theory.


Mission 6 is interesting because it failed twice. Everyone knew it would fail because it had me but did not have Cliges, but it failed twice. Jacksonian accounts for one of those, while the other is included among 2kNikk/k-59/Ironhide, Tonka, Aedan, myself, and Audren.

If it's k-59, everything is simple. It explains the mission 5 sabotage. It also points to Audren being a more likely goodie than not, I'd say.

If it's tonka, then we have Panzer/tonka/Jacksonian and one of aedan and Ironhead being spies.

If it's me, then there's the question of why a double-sabotage didn't happen earlier.

If it's Audren, then Panzer (or myself) also has to be a spy based on mission 5, which again opens up the problem of how double-sabotaging was avoided earlier.

Long story short, I can't see any reasonably probable alternative to k-59 and Jacksonian being spymates. The Panzer/tonka/aedan combination could still work, but it requires a couple lucky coincidences falling their way. It also does not match aedan's behavior in being concerned about this last team having me on it, predicated on faulty reasoning though that concern may be. Panzer being a spy without the rest of the chain requires an even more improbable set of events falling the spies way, and I will discard that possibility, which forces k-59 and Jacksonian to both be spes. Thus, I trust Panzer, and therefore trust tonka and aedan too, leaving the last spy to be Audren or CaesarCzech. And based on general behavior and his presence on mission 6, Audren remains my preference.


Proposed:

madchemist
Cliges
Audren
Panzer Commader
tonkatoy5
aedan777


APPROVE
 
Still don't think Madchemist is resistance.

Reject
 
Still don't think Madchemist is resistance.

Reject

Seriously, aedan, provide even so much as one coherent reason as to why. You've got the same evidence to look at that everyone else has. Explain how events have transpired the way they have if I'm a spy. Rebut my arguments, if you can.
 
Aedan what team will you propse?
 
Actually, aedan makes the last proposal, because of the talisman he got to start the round. So if you are indeed Resistance, my mission is the last chance for the Resistance to come out of this with a win.

...

Proposed:

madchemist
Cliges
Audren
Panzer Commader
tonkatoy5
aedan777
Then this game is lost :(

REJECT and hope aedan777 forgets to use his power.
 
Seriously, aedan, provide even so much as one coherent reason as to why. You've got the same evidence to look at that everyone else has. Explain how events have transpired the way they have if I'm a spy. Rebut my arguments, if you can.
I have given coherent arguments, repeatedly. Ironhead scanning you makes more sense if you are a spy, rather than letting the resistance set up a new chain. You've been on all three sabotaged missions. The spies aren't trying to put suspicion on you. The spies have been following the advice you initially gave about waiting until the largest teams to sabotage. In comparison, I don't think K-59 was a spy when he quit following his team being criticized. That strikes me more as legitimate mistake that he got upset over, more likely from a resistance member than a spy.

Aedan what team will you propse?

Myself, you, Panzer, Cliges, Audren, K-59/Ironhide
 
I have given coherent arguments, repeatedly. Ironhead scanning you makes more sense if you are a spy, rather than letting the resistance set up a new chain.

I agree that it was a mistake on his part, but it seems to have served him well anyway, since a single Resistance member not being on a mission is all that is needed for a spy victory.

You've been on all three sabotaged missions.

Irrelevant, given that the sabotages are much better explained by Jacksonian and k-59 as spies.

The spies aren't trying to put suspicion on you.

Or on anybody else, for that matter, so that's equally irrelevant.

The spies have been following the advice you initially gave about waiting until the largest teams to sabotage.

Still irrelevant, as if I was a spy, that's not something I could have discussed with the other spies in advance anyhow. And if my reading is right, only Ironhead would have been able to sabotage the early missions, and he'd have been a marked man had he done so since he wasn't on the chain.

In comparison, I don't think K-59 was a spy when he quit following his team being criticized. That strikes me more as legitimate mistake that he got upset over, more likely from a resistance member than a spy.

So throwing a whiny tantrum and quitting the game in a huff is a Resistance move? Really?

Myself, you, Panzer, Cliges, Audren, K-59/Ironhide

I've never felt occasion to call you this before, but my goodness are you an idiot. If you do get control over the last mission and leave me off it, this loss falls squarely on your stupidity.
 
APPROVE
 
I've never felt occasion to call you this before, but my goodness are you an idiot. If you do get control over the last mission and leave me off it, this loss falls squarely on your stupidity.

You can't browbeat me into agreeing with you by insulting me. I'll propose my mission, and the resistance will probably win the game, barring Caesarczech being a resistance member, which is far too possible for my liking.
 
You can't browbeat me into agreeing with you by insulting me. I'll propose my mission, and the resistance will probably win the game, barring Caesarczech being a resistance member, which is far too possible for my liking.

I insult people who deserve it, not because I think it'll make them agree with me necessarily.

I'll be honest, I'm mostly just pissed off because any sane and intelligent reading of the thread to this point should make it obvious that I'm a Resistance member, as it seems to have done for almost everyone else. It takes the worst form of idiocy or tunnel vision for you to honestly believe that I am a spy.
 
I think Chemist is a better chocie then K-59 but the issue no one seems to be seeing is that with Aedan rejecting there is no way this team passes unless a spy goes with it.
 
I think Chemist is a better chocie then K-59 but the issue no one seems to be seeing is that with Aedan rejecting there is no way this team passes unless a spy goes with it.

To be fair, it's already been like last time and didn't get approved. Also, I do have the talisman that lets me vote double, and I am using it right now.
 
To be fair, it's already been like last time and didn't get approved. Also, I do have the talisman that lets me vote double, and I am using it right now.

Oh I actually have that as well.
 
Approve

Also I declare the use of my talisman
 
Oh, and before aedan feels the need to point it out as further evidence that I'm a spy because he wants me to be one or something, I feel compelled to note that I got my talisman from CaesarCzech, whom I still regard as an almost certain spy. No, I don't know why he gave it to me, although FWIW it was after Ironhead scanned me.
 
Resistance members should be rejecting this, and not let Madchemist force through a team that he'll sabotage.
 
Resistance members should be rejecting this, and not let Madchemist force through a team that he'll sabotage.

The other Resistance members have sufficient intelligence to realize that my arguments are correct and that I am also a Resistance member, even if you do not.