• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Chapter Three - The War Exhaustion Years

During the 1420s, I spent way too much time chasing down GH and Timurid armies, often through several low supply provinces. This led to both manpower problems and extremely high war exhaustion. In short, I am terrible at managing attrition. (Or I should say, was terrible. I believe this is the game where I finally got a handle on it - but not until after this update)

I will say that it's also damn hard to keep WE low when you're in a state of near constant war and share border with both of the two largest nomadic nations.

At any rate, I decide to cancel my current mission in April 1420. My new one:

2013012700024.jpg


I'm not thrilled with this one. Yes, it allows me to take Mamuk provinces at 1/4 infamy. But they've got 36 provinces at this point. Burning through 36 infamy to take out the Mamluks would be a major distraction from working toward taking out Portugal, Castille, and England.

After spending several months fighting the Golden Horde, Milan declares on me in April 1422. Bavaria follows suit in September. My forces are busy with the Horde and with putting down revolts. Several of my provinces in Europe are occupied. However, at least I'm making progress on fighting the Horde. In July 1423, I gain a province:

2013012700030.jpg


You can notice from this screen that war exhaustion has reached maximum. Revolts are breaking out all over. I again concede defeat to the Horde and buy myself another 5 years on that front.

At least now, I can focus on Milan and Bavaria.

In interesting world news, the English defeat the Teutonic Order and nab a few of their provinces in July of 1424. The English now have a border with the Golden Horde (although I'm currently unable to see it).

By August, Bavaria still occupies Tirol, but Milan has been driven back and defeated. Peace is made, with Verona and Brescia joining the Ottoman Empire.

2013012700033.jpg


By December, Bavaria is on the retreat. Time to press our advantage and solidify our hold on Italy. I declare on the Papal State, Modena, and Siena. Castille becomes war leader in defense of the Pope. Austria takes the lead in the Modena war, although I'm hardly concerned. Austria, along with a good chunk of the HRE, plus Poland, has been at war with France for a few years. I now find myself de facto allies with the French in this war. Poland, however, stays away from war with the Turks.

In June 1425, Morocco declares war on me. I am also fighting the Timurids in the East again. Morocco manages to land some troops in Pisa, but they are brought to heel. Morocco has built up quite a sizable navy - though nowhere near as large as mine. I add a few more carracks to my growing armada after a few battles with the Moroccans.

I also declare war on the Knights in July.

Peace with Bavaria comes in August. I grab Schwaben, along with 125 ducats. My economy has suffered quite a bit due to my high WE. These peace deals go a long way to stopping my inflation from getting out of control.

In September, Denmark declares on me. Again. What'd I ever do to them?

2013012700041.jpg


I also get my first boundary dispute. On Kosovo. Not where I would have chosen, but I'll take it.

February of 1426 sees the annexation of Siena, along with their university. As a rule, I'm staying away from annexing OPMs, but universities certainly warrant an exception.

In April, I make white peace with The Knights, mistakenly believing that the mission to annex The Knights would yield less infamy. So, I put off their conquest. I later realize that with or without that particular mission, annexing The Knights as an OPM, with either Holy War or Conquest CB, yields 2 infamy. Oops.

By 1426, many of my troops have headed East to fight the Timurids (anyone sensing a recurring theme here?). In August, I declare on Trebizond just to temporarily get faster access to Timurid territory and save a retreating army that's about to get wiped out. Definitely gets the award for most spurious declaration of war thus far. A year and a half later, I again concede defeat to get the Timurids off my back.

In October 1426, white peace is made with Morocco. In December, Denmark makes white peace as well.

In January 1427, Roma is annexed and the Papacy gets a new home:

2013012900011.jpg


By February of 1428, the Austrians are finally defeated after some very long sieges. I get 125 ducats and revocation of all their cores that I now hold.

For some reason, the Swiss sense weakness and declare Holy War in May. They are immediately and spectacularly stack wiped and besieged. Also in May, I move my slider toward Free Subjects. It's the last move on this slider that I can make under Despotic Monarchy without breaking the limit.

Ferrara cedes Modena to me in July. That's one more university for my growing collection.

I've been whittling away at the Castillian navy for years now, but by May 1429, I've reduced them to this:

2013020100001p.jpg


And my own navy continues to grow. Before too long, I'll be able to sink the English fleet:

2013020100002.jpg


In August 1429, peace is made with Switzerland - 3 provinces and 25 ducats. Peace with Castille comes as well - 75 ducats and treaty annulment.

Here's a look at The Ottoman Empire in 1430, in Sphere of Influence map mode:

2013020100008.jpg
 
Last edited:
Nice work! Always good to see an Ottoman WC...the attempt at least.
 
Very nice work. I like the speed you're going with these updates, hope you can keep it up. Even if you consider getting border with GH as a mistake I think it's of utmost importance so you can shut europeans out. Every province taken with colonists is saved infamy.
 
@ATBKING - Thanks! I don't think that I adequately conveyed just how challenging the 1420s were. I probably should have screencapped more of the big revolts that I had to put down. Fighting the GH, Timurids, various European powers, and rebels all at once was a tough slog. Like I said in this update, I think I really got a hold of the attrition issue after 1430 or so. But there were many moments where I thought things could totally fall apart - no manpower, max WE and war on several fronts. Glad I made it through.

@Ashantai - I honestly don't know if Ottoman WC is even mathematically possible in DW. But I'm trying anyway!

@klanh89 - I have mixed feelings about the GH border. Sometimes I think you may be right, but I also spend so much time and effort and have to commit so many troops that could be fighting elsewhere that it hardly seems worth it. And I do wonder if Lithuania or someone else might not have been taken apart by the Horde by now if my troops weren't beating them back again and again.
 
It may be too soon to take on the horde now , especially if it means having maxed WE!
you may want to PU the mamlukes/Algiers/Morocco and the like , if you allow yourself to do it , for the cored lands and buildings.

For kosovo , you have missions to conquer Serbia and Bosnia , provided they aren't your vassals any more , but put them in SOI or Hungary will try to do it too!
 
Chapter Four - The Second Great War for Italy (errr.....and other places)

After a couple of years of much needed peace, Denmark declared war on the Turks in January of 1433. In March, Poland makes their own declaration and draws in Austria against me. Time, once again, to make peace with the Timurids and focus my efforts in Europe. The Timurids had mostly been leaving me alone, instead focusing their armies on the Mamluks, but I decide to play it safe and close down that front.

In October, the French declare on me, in alliance with the Danes. November and December see several naval victories over Denmark and France, leading up to white peace with the Danish-led alliance in February of 1434.

By this time, the Mamluks are not faring well against the Timurid threat. In November of 1434, they lose the province of Mus. This also causes me to lose my border with the Mamluks, which in turn results in me failing my current mission. I had been debating canceling the mission anyway, but now it is lost. Not a welcome occurrence.

I resolve to manage my missions more carefully from here on in, and I don't waste any time in getting started on my next one:

2013020200006.jpg


Castille and France both declare on me, in defense of the Knights. I decide that now would be a good time for peace with Austria. I get them to annul a few treaties and end that war.

January of 1435 was an eventful month. First, Poland is defeated and I make peace:

2013020200009z.jpg


Through no real intention of my own, I seem to be working my way toward enveloping Hungary.

That January, England also declares war on France. This is the first war between the two powers.

But the January war declarations have just begun. Next, I declare on Parma and Tuscany. Austria, Naples, Savoy, Sicily, Holland, and Milan all declare on me in defense of one of the Italian states. Just when I've finished making my war plans, this happens:

2013020200012.jpg


Well, looks like it's past time to make peace with the Golden Horde. Oh, did I mention I was at war with them? In February, I am somewhat desperate for a quick cessation of hostilities, so I end the vassalization of Serbia to secure peace.

By October, my wars are going fairly well, so I decide to declare on Genoa as well. I was already at war with everyone they're allied with anyway, so why not?

White peace with Austria comes in November. Bohemia has been defeated rather easily and I make peace with them in January 1436, adding 125 ducats to my coffers.

In March, Tuscany is annexed and Firenze becomes my 5th university. Just a few days later, Naples agrees to revoke core on Janina in exchange for peace. In June, I annex Parma and now have 6 of the 7 Italian universities. Only Ferrara remains outside my empire.

Rhodes falls to my besieging forces, but I'm running low on diplomats at this point. I wait a couple of months and then annex the Knights. My new mission:

2013020200027.jpg


I make white peace with Castille soon thereafter, which also ends my war with the French. Fighting in Italy continues for another year. I make peace with Switzerland (oh yes, at some point we ended up at war) in July of 1437. I get core revocation and 50 ducats. Savoy also makes peace with me that month, I extract a few ducats and make them annul some treaties. Finally, in September, I annex Genoa. Liguria becomes my third CoT and my recent spate of wars draws to a close.

A political map of my Empire in 1437:

2013020200034.jpg


Here's how things look religiously:

2013020200035.jpg


I am still a bit ahead of most of the Europeans in tech, though some of the big powers are catching up fast:

2013020200036.jpg


I definitely left out a few of the minor nations involved in the wars of this time. Here's a nice shot of everyone I've been at war with recently:

2013020200037.jpg
 
What's your third CoT? Besides Venezia and Liguria that is.

Have you considered forming HRE and get IA by enforcing religion? I'm not sure if you could get enough votes to pass the reforms, but it might be worth a try.

As far as I'm aware there is no reason why Ottomans wouldn't be able to WC ( without collapsing to horde ) as big part of the muslim lands are Horde. I would also try to get Mamuluks in personal union to save even more infamy. Another thing to consider is guaranteeing either Algiers or Morocco and help one take over another and then PU the winner.

My perfect scenario plan as Ottomans would include having only 2 nations in North Africa, Mamuluks and Algiers/Marocco, and PU both of them.
 
Last edited:
What's your third CoT? Besides Venezia and Liguria that is.

Have you considered forming HRE and get IA by enforcing religion? I'm not sure if you could get enough votes to pass the reforms, but it might be worth a try.

As far as I'm aware there is no reason why Ottomans wouldn't be able to WC ( without collapsing to horde ) as big part of the muslim lands are Horde. I would also try to get Mamuluks in personal union to save even more infamy. Another thing to consider is guaranteeing either Algiers or Morocco and help one take over another and then PU the winner.

My perfect scenario plan as Ottomans would include having only 2 nations in North Africa, Mamuluks and Algiers/Marocco, and PU both of them.

Non-christians can't become HRE (right?)
 
To all suggesting PUs: see my rules and restrictions regarding royal marriages.

@klanh89 - it is MUCH harder to do a non-cheese WC without going over infamy limit as a non-Catholic nation. Controlled cardinals allow for up to 1.5 reduction/year. Even after getting Cabinet, my max bb reduction is going to be around 2.5 - and that's assuming a ruler with a great ADM attribute.
 
Yes it's much harder, but I reckon not impossible. This AAR makes me want to try out Ottoman WC next.

Everyone is free to use whatever rules they like when playing, but I personally don't see why people think PUs as cheesy. I understand that they are somewhat overpowered, but they are part of the game no more or no less than collapsing into a horde ( current WC record holder Ottoman ).

Other aspect that makes non-catholic WC harder is the extra colonist you loose. Cardinals on the other hand are bit of a double edged sword, yes in theory you can get up to 1.5 infamy reduction, but in reality you would be happy to have 10-12 after 150-200 years into the game. You're pretty much forced to take big peace deals from blobs like Ming/France in order to get anywhere with 10 years truces in 5.2b.

Seeing how you mentioned your high WE earlier you probably have less than than perfect legitimacy which pile up on already bad RR. Without RMs the only good way to get your legitimacy up is by using an adviser and I'm sure you have plenty of other choices you rather have in that slot. Few years of RC followed by heir with weak claim is also going to be a pain.
 
I just like the challenge of playing without PUs. I don't really see them as cheesy necessarily, i just chose not to do them for this playthrough. As for legitimacy, I did enact the unique Ottoman decision Adopt Title of Khalifa, so I likely won't need an advisor unless things get really out of hand.

I also think I got soured on RMs after a Scotland game where I inherited a very robust Muscovy and a blobbing Sweden, both before 1500. I suddenly had 40+ new provinces that I felt like I hadn't really had to work hard to get.
 
Here's a glance at my economic and tech situation in December of 1437:

2013020200038.jpg


2013020200039.jpg


War exhaustion is still a big problem, though it's steadily heading down now. As you can see, I am WAY over my naval force limit. I turn down maintenance whenever I can.

I consider inflation of 2.2 pretty good for this stage. My goal is to keep it in the single digits, figuring it will hit a high point in the 1480s or 90s - at which time the major European threats will all be dead or dying and I will control the European CoTs. Then, I hope that I can turn a corner and focus on stabilizing inflation.

I'm teching fairly well - have had a good long run at +3 stability. Keeping government and land a tech or two ahead of everything else.

It's nearly time to begin taking on the potential colonizers. I am just waiting for a good opportunity and to add another 8-10 carracks to my fleet, which will put me at parity with England. I negotiated military access in Burgundy for a staging ground and a naval repair location, when the inevitable war with England comes. My main target in the first war will either be Portugal or England, but either way I'll need to take on the English navy.

In January of 1438, this happens:

2013020200042.jpg


Always a welcome event.

In May, I declare war on Serbia to reclaim my core in Kosovo. I later realize that I should have just declared Holy War and taken Serbia and Kosovo for 2 infamy and saved myself 5 years. Later, taking Serbia as an OPM will cost me 2 infamy anyway. The only upside is that I weaseled 50 ducats out of them in the peace, which comes just about a year after war begins.

In events elsewhere, England continues expanding in random places:

2013020200048.jpg


Also in July, Morocco declares war on me. Again. At least they're always good for some free ships:

2013020200051.jpg


They offer white peace shortly thereafter. I accept.

In April 1440, I make peace with the Timurids to focus on fighting the GH. The next year is spent fighting the Horde. In 1441, Bohemia and Lithuania both declare Holy War on me. Here is the sum total of Bohemian forces at the beginning of the war:

2013020800001j.jpg


Needless to say, I made quick work of them. I start besieging both Bohemia and Lithuania.

By early 1442, sieges are nearly complete. I decide to make peace with the Horde and immediately start organizing my forces to attack England, who is just one tech away from potentially getting QFTNW:

2013020800005i.jpg


Portugal is farther behind in tech than England and can be totally defeated in two wars. They can wait.

In April 1443, peace is made with Bohemia:

2013020800007.jpg


275 ducats. Woot!

Later that year, three 16K stacks leave for Burgundy and Holstein, the staging grounds for my planned invasion of England.

In January, I hit government 9:

2013020800012.jpg


Military drill should make land combat with England a breeze.

I finally make peace with Lithuania in January as well:

2013020800014.jpg


I also get another boundary dispute. This time, it's with Hungary for Carpathia. The next month, I move my slider toward Centralization. Not too bad:

2013020800016.jpg


In June, I declare war on Serbia to begin finishing up that mission.

By September of 1444, the last few carracks I've built have been sent up to meet my forces in Burgundy. All is ready to attack England. But there's just one teensy bitty problem: France is Defender of the Faith. Not only are they Defender of the Faith, but they've run roughshod over Savoy and Milan, so I essentially now share a land border with them. If I'm going to be in a war with France, I'd prefer to get something out of it. Taking provinces at 4 infamy a piece is not an option. So, I do what any sensible person would do:

2013020800018.jpg
 
Last edited:
This is going to be interesting.

Like I said this AAR made me want to start with Ottomans myself and it's been great fun. We are on very similar ground in in 1444 ( same year I stopped my session ), Unlike you I decided to take the Italian region, instead of going for Poland for very simple reason. There simply isn't enough MP in 5.2b, I have 55 units and only time I got any significant manpower is from events.

I know you don't have this problem in 5.1, but do you have any suggestions on how to deal with Portugal in 5.2b? The difference is they get Azores and Madeira without QftNW.
 
England usually takes quest at 3rd or 4th idea , but Portugal and Castille are prone to take it at their 2nd!
 
Portugal does tend to take QFTNW earlier than England, on average. That's a chance I'll have to take. Without Quest, even if they manage to grab Azores and Madeira, Portugal is still a 2 war annexation. England will take 4-6 wars based on the provinces they now hold, so I wanted to get started on them ASAP. The other factor that went in to my decision was that Castille is allied with Portugal. I wasn't quite ready to fight on land against Portugal, Castille, England, and France all at the same time (yikes!). Even if Castille gets involved in this war, they've got no land connection to me, so I don't need to worry about fighting their army just yet.

Don't get me wrong - Portugal needs to die. And soon. But I want to start on England first.