Alexander I of Yugoslavia must be king of Serbia, because Yugoslavia didnt exsit in this mod, and Ustase didnt kill him.
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I have an idea that the young Napoléon VI support Charles de Gaulle's military theory after he had read "Vers l'Armée de Métier". Then the land doctrine of France would turn to "Blitzkrieg (or in other name?)".
General Grant, welcome back!
I received your PM. As long many things aren't decided yet, it would be better to wait a bit with detailed backstory. Then we should set up the scenario and current timeline from 1963 first?
As for backstory, we probably all agree that backbone should be that CSA, Mexican Empire, Brazilian Empire and Congress Poland survived, and no WW1 happened(with all empires which fell apart OTL after WW1 still exists). There was also European intervention in China in 1920s, so Qing also exists. Canada stays British, since USA taking it in 1870s doesen't seems very plausible.
As for scenario itself, I propose that everyone interested should start to post their suggestions in this thread. I very glad to see there's much interest to improve Congress Poland, since this makes Central Europe more interesting.
About scenario:
What should the main blocs be like? I would first propose some kind of Entente(diffrent than OTL, alliance with Britain never happened), this Entente is made of France(leaders), CSA, Mexico, Italy and Russia(plus Congress Poland). They could be accompanied with Greece, Serbia and Romania later.
Second alliance could be Central Powers: Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Spain(Hohenzollern placed on Spanish throne after Franco-Prussian war), Bulgaria(please don't weaken Bulgaria as result of 3rd Balkan War as you did in previous version, for balance), very likely Quing(Shanghai Congress in end of 1936, Germany can decide to invite Qing, but also return Shanghai to Emperor), eventually USA also.
Third alliance could be Commonwealth. British supported CSA together with French during American Civil War, but later Franco-British friendship comes to an end(French dominate Mexico and also became biggest trade partner of CSA, and there's rivalry with British because of this). UK influence is slowly thrown out of CSA by French investments, so British break with France and try better luck in Asia(this could happen in last years of 1860 already). British find new ally in Japan, but to prevent revolts in colonies and tensions with Japanese(who see themselves as Liberator of Asia), India becomes British Dominon together with other colonies which became dominions OTL. This means Indian Empire is puppet of UK, maybe even reinforced by Burma. This makes good counterweight to Qing Empire and French Indochina(should Indochina be French dominion instead of colony, since Napoleon III liked idea of dominions?). Commonwealth alliance would then be made of UK and Dominions(Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Indian Empire) and Japan, and eventually Portugese and their Brazilian cousins.
That's rough plan. What do you think? In my opinion, such plot is quite diffrent than original one from Pteap, but circumstances have changed and require diffrent setup. I think such world can be quite Balanced. For example:
North America: Pro-German USA would counter pro-French CSA and Mexico, and pro-British Canada, all blocs have their footholds.
South America: Brazilian Empire is pro-British, Argentina could be influenced by Germany, French could support Columbia or any other country in South America(maybe helping them restore Grand Columbia?).
Europe: Full of tensions, France is surrounded by Germany and Spain, Austria-Hungary is threatened by Italy, Russia, Serbia and Romania, Bulgaria counters Serbia, Romania and Greece, Germans must keep an eye on French, Poles and Russians, Russians have Ottoman threat in the South).
Africa: Germans, British and French have colonial possessions, maybe Germans could support Ethiopia(against Italy, British and French).
Asia: Japan and Britain counter pro-German Qing China(almost unified, maybe Tibet and Turkestan can rejoin Empire eventually), French have Indochina and Hainan, Qing Empire can also distract Russians in the East). Japanese would also like to claim Hawaii.
NOTES:
Some minor, but still important stuff. What about Panama Canal? Should be made by USA as OTL, or Confederate-French project? Quite big strategic importance. If Columbia wouldn't be thrown from Panama by Americans(like OTL), Columbians could sell Panama to French, and also stay good French allies. Columbia could be later also supported by French to expand in Northern South America(restoration of Grand Columbia?).
What about Belgium? They could be neutral first, but then French could support tensions between Flemish and Walloons, and later intervene under excuse of ''peace operation''. French would invade Belgium to restore order, but Germans would also make sure that French don't get everything. Germans take German populated areas and France anex Belgium as two new regions of French Empire: Flanders and Wallonia. Belgian king escapes to Germany and accepts German anexation of part of his former country. He could also give Congo to Germans(as temporary colonial mandate), or Congo becomes German puppet, so Germans can have more influence in Africa(Belgian king makes such decisions in hope that Germans will restore Belgium after France will be defeated one day).
As for Congress Poland, they could have claims on Austria(Galicia) and part of Germany, while not claiming any Russian territory(this would ruin allied relations). Russians could represent themselves as Liberator of all Slavic nations, so they could help Poles to support their brothers in Austria and Germany, and also support idea of Yugoslavia(Alexander I still alive, as someone mentioned). If Germans or Austrians take Congress Poland during the war, they can restore their puppet Poland, under rule of some noble of German origin, or one of Habsburgs. I think similar ideas were already posted in this thread.
I also like idea of Napoleon VI supporting new strategic doctrines of Charles de Gaulle, maybe French could invite Blitzkrieg in this universe, with Germans sticking with strategy used in WW1 OTL, but still being very strong, maybe still with option to listen to ideas of Heinz Guderian.
I hope this helps a little and isn't to confusing. I'll post more suggestions later. If you like this ideas, we can try to expand them and make them ready for scenario.
I received your PM. As long many things aren't decided yet, it would be better to wait a bit with detailed backstory. Then we should set up the scenario and current timeline from 1963 first?
As for backstory, we probably all agree that backbone should be that CSA, Mexican Empire, Brazilian Empire and Congress Poland survived, and no WW1 happened(with all empires which fell apart OTL after WW1 still exists). There was also European intervention in China in 1920s, so Qing also exists. Canada stays British, since USA taking it in 1870s doesen't seems very plausible.
As for scenario itself, I propose that everyone interested should start to post their suggestions in this thread. I very glad to see there's much interest to improve Congress Poland, since this makes Central Europe more interesting.
About scenario:
What should the main blocs be like? I would first propose some kind of Entente(diffrent than OTL, alliance with Britain never happened), this Entente is made of France(leaders), CSA, Mexico, Italy and Russia(plus Congress Poland). They could be accompanied with Greece, Serbia and Romania later.
Second alliance could be Central Powers: Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Spain(Hohenzollern placed on Spanish throne after Franco-Prussian war), Bulgaria(please don't weaken Bulgaria as result of 3rd Balkan War as you did in previous version, for balance), very likely Quing(Shanghai Congress in end of 1936, Germany can decide to invite Qing, but also return Shanghai to Emperor), eventually USA also.
Third alliance could be Commonwealth. British supported CSA together with French during American Civil War, but later Franco-British friendship comes to an end(French dominate Mexico and also became biggest trade partner of CSA, and there's rivalry with British because of this). UK influence is slowly thrown out of CSA by French investments, so British break with France and try better luck in Asia(this could happen in last years of 1860 already). British find new ally in Japan, but to prevent revolts in colonies and tensions with Japanese(who see themselves as Liberator of Asia), India becomes British Dominon together with other colonies which became dominions OTL. This means Indian Empire is puppet of UK, maybe even reinforced by Burma. This makes good counterweight to Qing Empire and French Indochina(should Indochina be French dominion instead of colony, since Napoleon III liked idea of dominions?). Commonwealth alliance would then be made of UK and Dominions(Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Indian Empire) and Japan, and eventually Portugese and their Brazilian cousins.
That's rough plan. What do you think? In my opinion, such plot is quite diffrent than original one from Pteap, but circumstances have changed and require diffrent setup. I think such world can be quite Balanced. For example:
North America: Pro-German USA would counter pro-French CSA and Mexico, and pro-British Canada, all blocs have their footholds.
South America: Brazilian Empire is pro-British, Argentina could be influenced by Germany, French could support Columbia or any other country in South America(maybe helping them restore Grand Columbia?).
Europe: Full of tensions, France is surrounded by Germany and Spain, Austria-Hungary is threatened by Italy, Russia, Serbia and Romania, Bulgaria counters Serbia, Romania and Greece, Germans must keep an eye on French, Poles and Russians, Russians have Ottoman threat in the South).
Africa: Germans, British and French have colonial possessions, maybe Germans could support Ethiopia(against Italy, British and French).
Asia: Japan and Britain counter pro-German Qing China(almost unified, maybe Tibet and Turkestan can rejoin Empire eventually), French have Indochina and Hainan, Qing Empire can also distract Russians in the East). Japanese would also like to claim Hawaii.
NOTES:
Some minor, but still important stuff. What about Panama Canal? Should be made by USA as OTL, or Confederate-French project? Quite big strategic importance. If Columbia wouldn't be thrown from Panama by Americans(like OTL), Columbians could sell Panama to French, and also stay good French allies. Columbia could be later also supported by French to expand in Northern South America(restoration of Grand Columbia?).
What about Belgium? They could be neutral first, but then French could support tensions between Flemish and Walloons, and later intervene under excuse of ''peace operation''. French would invade Belgium to restore order, but Germans would also make sure that French don't get everything. Germans take German populated areas and France anex Belgium as two new regions of French Empire: Flanders and Wallonia. Belgian king escapes to Germany and accepts German anexation of part of his former country. He could also give Congo to Germans(as temporary colonial mandate), or Congo becomes German puppet, so Germans can have more influence in Africa(Belgian king makes such decisions in hope that Germans will restore Belgium after France will be defeated one day).
As for Congress Poland, they could have claims on Austria(Galicia) and part of Germany, while not claiming any Russian territory(this would ruin allied relations). Russians could represent themselves as Liberator of all Slavic nations, so they could help Poles to support their brothers in Austria and Germany, and also support idea of Yugoslavia(Alexander I still alive, as someone mentioned). If Germans or Austrians take Congress Poland during the war, they can restore their puppet Poland, under rule of some noble of German origin, or one of Habsburgs. I think similar ideas were already posted in this thread.
I also like idea of Napoleon VI supporting new strategic doctrines of Charles de Gaulle, maybe French could invite Blitzkrieg in this universe, with Germans sticking with strategy used in WW1 OTL, but still being very strong, maybe still with option to listen to ideas of Heinz Guderian.
I hope this helps a little and isn't to confusing. I'll post more suggestions later. If you like this ideas, we can try to expand them and make them ready for scenario.
I like your idea Asalto, seems plausible and i think it would work.
Btw Grant, I think I can help out a bit with a little event coding here and there. I wouldn't call myself great, but I can make the more basic stuff work.
Btw Grant, I think I can help out a bit with a little event coding here and there. I wouldn't call myself great, but I can make the more basic stuff work.
Asalto, I agree with most of the stuff you posted. We already discussed those matters alot and this is probably whats the best for the balance/storyline.
About Serbia: Alexander's dynasty (Karađorđević) is not ruling over Serbia, so assasinated or not, the Obrenović family is in power. The reason behind this is that at the begining of the century, the Obrenović in power were more pro-Austrians and would not had supported the Blank Hand, wich is responsible for the events of Sarajevo. Its a way to dodge 1914, and was the main turning point in history of the first PTEAP.
About Panama: Panama proper (not the canal zone) could be Columbian since the US intererence in the region would be lesser. I like the idea of Columbia being pro-French, they could had very good relations and accesses treaties, and would maybe join France if trouble spread to South America. The canal could be French- historically France's participation in the projet was important at the begining, with major names such as Ferdinand de Lesseps being involved. It failed and the project was given to the U.S., but with France being more powerfull in the region (with a base in Haiti, and allies in Mexico and CSA) they could succeed.
About Indochina: I also tought it would be great to have Indochina as a dominion, exactly like British India and the Dutch East Indies (just finished modding them in). It would become a general trend in the region, and if we chose to do this we could even apply this to the Philippines.
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I'll be off for two weeks, I am going to Germany. So don't expect any replies until June 22 or something. But that doesn't mean to not post, I'll just look at them later. Feel free to post any ideas for the storyline or the set-up.
About Serbia: Alexander's dynasty (Karađorđević) is not ruling over Serbia, so assasinated or not, the Obrenović family is in power. The reason behind this is that at the begining of the century, the Obrenović in power were more pro-Austrians and would not had supported the Blank Hand, wich is responsible for the events of Sarajevo. Its a way to dodge 1914, and was the main turning point in history of the first PTEAP.
About Panama: Panama proper (not the canal zone) could be Columbian since the US intererence in the region would be lesser. I like the idea of Columbia being pro-French, they could had very good relations and accesses treaties, and would maybe join France if trouble spread to South America. The canal could be French- historically France's participation in the projet was important at the begining, with major names such as Ferdinand de Lesseps being involved. It failed and the project was given to the U.S., but with France being more powerfull in the region (with a base in Haiti, and allies in Mexico and CSA) they could succeed.
About Indochina: I also tought it would be great to have Indochina as a dominion, exactly like British India and the Dutch East Indies (just finished modding them in). It would become a general trend in the region, and if we chose to do this we could even apply this to the Philippines.
___
I'll be off for two weeks, I am going to Germany. So don't expect any replies until June 22 or something. But that doesn't mean to not post, I'll just look at them later. Feel free to post any ideas for the storyline or the set-up.
We are joining you in this tragedy. Remember - the text about freedom on gate is a lie.
Our Lord may be with you.
I was thinking that France can help Colombia in the reunification of the Gran Colombia (As Asalto wrote). This could be "peaceful" diploanexions (One pleibiscite here, one coup d'etat there... 
) the spark that ignite war in South America (Like the Anschluss and the Munich Treaty in OTL).
Another thing I had in mind was Spain. With the Hohenzollern in the throne ¿Is Spain very different? Aside of that, I thinked in a French-supported carlist uprising wich led to the Fourth Carlist War (Inside the Great War). I think it could be a nice touch to help the French.
) the spark that ignite war in South America (Like the Anschluss and the Munich Treaty in OTL).Another thing I had in mind was Spain. With the Hohenzollern in the throne ¿Is Spain very different? Aside of that, I thinked in a French-supported carlist uprising wich led to the Fourth Carlist War (Inside the Great War). I think it could be a nice touch to help the French.
I have another idea. There would be another revolution in China that leading by the Communist Party (CHC). The reason of it may be Qing Empire defeated in the war, or may be the Chinese want to subvert the disgusting, traitorous government....
And I think The Minister and the leaders of CHC may be mix with CHC and CHI. Also, this may not suitable that too many Minister and leaders from CHI in Qing Empire.
I think these people may appear in Qing.
Aisin Gioro Xianyu
Aisin-Gioro Pujie
Aisin-Gioro Yùyán
Cao Kun
Zhang Zuolin
Sa Zhenbing
Aisin-Gioro Zaize
Or these warlords....
Warlords in Republican China
And I think The Minister and the leaders of CHC may be mix with CHC and CHI. Also, this may not suitable that too many Minister and leaders from CHI in Qing Empire.
I think these people may appear in Qing.
Aisin Gioro Xianyu
Aisin-Gioro Pujie
Aisin-Gioro Yùyán
Cao Kun
Zhang Zuolin
Sa Zhenbing
Aisin-Gioro Zaize
Or these warlords....
Warlords in Republican China
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Good idea, French could support Carlists to weaken Spain during the war. It's far more plausible to support Carlists since Spain would never accept Bonapartist pretender IMHO. Carlists could be French allies then.
I see, this is logical explanation to avoid WW1 since first Pteap. But what about if Obrenović dynasty gets overthrown by Karađorđević later, in end of 1930s? French and Russians could support such coup. This could be part of policy of surrounding Austria-Hungary. Off course new rulers of Serbia(Alexander I) would also start to preach idea of liberation of South Slavic nations that live in Austria-Hungary, and their unification with Serbia into Yugoslavia, this would rise dissent in Austria-Hungary even more. Off course creation of Yugoslavia is not very likely before the end of world war. This could be possible option to include when French redraw map in case of Entente victory.
Good ideas. Communism probably can't be completely ignored even in this mod, altough it would not be so influental as OTL. What about even making Communism a bit diffrent, maybe more democratic and less radical, like in Kaiserreich Mod? There wouldn't be Communists at the start of the game, but maybe they could appear in China if Quing Empire takes too extreme steps. Maybe radical Left could be represented in diffrent way, kind of popular front or something? Communism could be more like one of obstacles for great powers to challange their power. It would be less likely to appear in personification of some superpower, like USSR OTL, but more like smaller revolts, or in case of China as small rebel state, which could be a challange for Qing Empire. Main story would stay mainly concentrated on rivalry between diffrent empires, with very little influence of radical ideologies.
Eh... does this make sense? India having dominion status, sure. And even without that, making India independent helps Britain, which has real trouble defending the subcontinent in any case.
But the East Indies were poorly defended, and Dutch rule had very, very little support. It as a dominion therefore makes little sense, IMO.
Can we ditch Qing China. I know that being alternate history, we all have a fetish for hereditary dictatorships, but it's a trend around here that makes no damn sense.
I think that the USA should be the strongest of the 3 "blocs" by far, however. It's economy would still be the world's largest, after all, and the South would be poorer than OTL in many ways.
I like the idea, personally, of making the USA a progressive, anticolonial state that's stirring up trouble around the world.
they also should be able to annex, as expansion, it: south to austria, north to germany, like pteap. or the germans will have no expansion. because before ww1, there was no german speaking area in belgium. and ww1 never happen so...
As for me I would asume that Habsburg Dalmatian Federation Emperor would claim the throne of Poland as its "legal" king therefore makin from Galicia third kingdom. But also there should be way that Germans makes independe wait... what the hell? The cause that Germans and Habsburgs proposed independent state was need of human resources... with quasi independent Congress Poland with autonomy and right to speak Polish Poles would never support Germans and Austria with their lifes ergo I will stop collecting pro Germans as Germanic States would never let Poles to have their own country. (But as player would puppet this state I will create 2 heads of state )
Now Congress Poland Team to EVENTS!
Hey, at least this mod can have it by never having them falling (the point of divergence being, after all, in the 19th century), instead of having them be re-instated by German/International Intervention or Pu-Yi the Political Mastermind of the Manchurian State.
I have some more questions.
First, what about the situation of Tibet, Sinkiang and Mongolia? Are they totally indepent? Or obey to Qing (puppet of Qing or allied with Qing )? Or controled by some other countries? (British, Russia, etc.)
And then, what is the tag of Qing? CHI? MAN? or CSX?
First, what about the situation of Tibet, Sinkiang and Mongolia? Are they totally indepent? Or obey to Qing (puppet of Qing or allied with Qing )? Or controled by some other countries? (British, Russia, etc.)
And then, what is the tag of Qing? CHI? MAN? or CSX?
I think Tibet should be a Qing puppet (The British and the Russians recognized the Chinese sovereignty over Tibet in 1906-07 and in 1907 the Qing invaded it without success and with it in 1910, establishing direct Chinese rule and deposing the Dalai Lama in an imperial edict, only to get kicked in 1913) and Mongolia free (Mongolian independence was possible thanks to the Qing weakness and the shadow of Russia).
One question: The USA are pro-French or pro-German?
I have made the icons of Russia, Mexican Empire and Austria-Hungary. May be you will like it.
RUSSIA
AUSTRIA-HUNGARY
MEXICAN EMPIRE
:rofl: I will make the icons of other nations later. :rofl:
RUSSIA
AUSTRIA-HUNGARY
MEXICAN EMPIRE
:rofl: I will make the icons of other nations later. :rofl:
I have made the icons of Russia, Mexican Empire and Austria-Hungary. May be you will like it.
Like! Like! Moar! MOAR!:rofl:
