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@coz1 my reaction to the previous scene is complicated, and will be long, so I'm waiting for the right opportunity to get it out there. I really enjoyed the scene. Quite the realistic period drama, and the human condition on display.

I'll comment soon. Do not feel bound to wait for me if you feel compelled to post more.

Renss
 
Fb-fb:

No...

Yet another foolish prince and princess...
The heart wants what the heart wants even in medieval England. ;)

Oh well, looks like things might not end well between the two princes...
Not so fast. As I've written it, Edmund might not mind so much. He does have other pursuits. We'll have to see how it plays out between brothers.

Richard is acting like Edward (RIP).

Funny.
Hmm. I can't answer this one yet. Not like Ned, though. That one was a randy son of a...

Indeed RIP. :(

@coz1 my reaction to the previous scene is complicated, and will be long, so I'm waiting for the right opportunity to get it out there. I really enjoyed the scene. Quite the realistic period drama, and the human condition on display.

I'll comment soon. Do not feel bound to wait for me if you feel compelled to post more.

Renss
I look forward to it, Renss. I'm thinking to post the next scene tomorrow so you still have a minute. :)
 
The heart wants what the heart wants even in medieval England. ;)

The heart is deceitful, and desperately wicked...
;)
 
I think many of us, including you @coz1, come at life from a Christian perspective to one degree or another. Today as in the past, Christianity is very often variously adhered to. And the Judaism of the Bible also, then and now.

The "moral perspective" is twofold. There's the Christian moral perspective and the societal moral perspective. Your characters, many or most of them, might presume to be Christians, but they aren't particularly good at being Christians. Not since King Henry, and it's debatable whether he was only differently balanced as opposed to more adherent. He did at least seem sincere.

The people of your story, just like the people in our everyday lives, tend to be relatively sincere people who also suck at being moral. We, today, have various societal moralities which vary in degrees with the Christian morality. Generally all of us probably try to uphold some degree of moral code, regardless of how perfect we are at it.

The societal perspective in King Richard's day -- and generally throughout the Western world of the time, and I'd bet within most non-Western cultures at the time -- had a taboo against infidelity because it really screws with the lineages and inheritance structure. Forgive the pun. We've seen the whole infidelity curse -- true infidelity and rumored infidelity alike -- shown in many ways in WoTR. It's the reason for all the disputes over who's the rightful king. It's the reason for the maneuvering for marriages, including Isabella's. And I would argue the characters of the story are more conscious and adherent to the idea of maintaining this societal morality than they are the Christian morality.

From a strict Christian perspective God demands/expects fidelity because sex is in His eye a symbolic thing. Yes, it's meant for procreation. It's even quite clearly meant by God to be pleasurable for both man and woman, whether a child is produced or not.

But it's also meant as a mirror of His relationship with His church. Any violation of the symbolism grieves God. It's the reason for the Jewish Law, which is very much centered around symbolism. But the whole story of the Bible -- most of it anyway -- is about how human beings (Israelites of the day, but Christians no less) really suck at being moral. Especially strictly moral. We play at it, but we suck. And God came to realize that, whereupon comes the Bible Part 2 where His plan to redeem humanity's infidelities against each other and the moral code comes into play with Jesus' sacrifice as atonement for our sins, allowing believers to be forgiven for our many infidelities.

That's where the Christian saying, "I'm not perfect, just forgiven" comes from. God doesn't expect us to be perfect any more than we can be, which we can't be. As a substitute for being perfect we are forgiven through Jesus' sacrifice as the Lamb of God.

Anyway, however much Isabella or Richard or Edmund may play at being societally moral and/or Christianly moral, they're imperfect just like the rest of us. Some human beings are better at it than others. I would suggest that the whole noble game these characters are playing makes them more vulnerable to temptation of many kinds, even as the consequences for violations become more severe.

Back to the Christian perspective... God intends for marriage to be a contract between two human beings with mutual obligations exchanged. Biblical laws on divorce, no matter how some may misinterpret them, clearly indicate there are times when divorce is warranted because the contract has been voided/violated. Our pastor made the argument that one legitimate grounds for divorce is abandonment -- where one spouse basically no longer cares to uphold the relationship and is just not there most of the time.

So I would argue that, both with his physical absence and with his infidelities, Edmund has abandoned his wife.

Again, these are all human beings, and human beings follow a human nature which is very much based in short-term pleasure and getting what one wants when one wants it. So Edmund is doing that. Isabella is doing that. Richard is doing that, though he begged off for a while.

So on one hand I'm actually happy to see that Isabella and Richard are able to find love together in a mutually supporting way. In a sense they are more closely and appropriately "married" than are Isabella and Edmund, because Edmund has abandoned her and Richard has always been there for her.

But yes, as others have said, there are some very serious consequences at stake if this relationship is discovered, and how could it not be?

@coz1 looking forward to seeing how this develops! Popcorn is at hand! :D

Rensslaer
 
But yes, as others have said, there are some very serious consequences at stake if this relationship is discovered, and how could it not be?

@coz1 looking forward to seeing how this develops! Popcorn is at hand! :D

Oh, indeed...popcorn is at hand.

I was discussing with my wife today how authors of human relationships, especially romances... essentially torture the characters to make a good story.

As much as properly adhered to marriage is awesome, it's not very exciting from a story perspective on it's own.

In order to make a compelling story, you need some driver for drama...and having humans behave in human ways (taking the easy way as Renss talks about above) is a good way to bring realistic drama.

Even in Last Mission...while Ian and Eloise have been faithful to each other...I'm really torturing them through external circumstances to make the story compelling...up to even killing one of them.

Kind of weird to think about... ;)

Also strange to think that some of my favorite moments in this AAR were the fates of those who were loyal to their infidelity with Margaret A...the reality of men unwilling to do anything but drive directly into personal destruction...
 
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Good points both @Rensslaer and @TheExecuter and definitely something to consider in not just this work but any from this time period. It is said that the essence of drama is conflict. This may come in many forms but as stated above, a marriage strictly adhered to with fidelity and love may (and note I use may) seem boring. I would suggest that Richard and Cecily live up to this and it is one of my favorite things to write when it comes to them. Through all of their trials, they still have each other and while there have been rumors throughout the work, I have never shown them to be anything but faithful to each other.

Which then leads me to comment on Christian morals and adherence to the Church. It has been suggested much earlier in the comments that I may not show the the piety of these characters as much as they would have likely shown themselves during this time. And I will admit, as I am writing here in the 21st century, I likely have them acting and reacting in much more modern sense. However, I do tend to think that human nature transcends time and though it may be spoken of differently throughout the ages, the base motivations remain much the same. Look at someone like Henry VIII (who will not appear in this work though some characters are perhaps loosely based on him.) He went so far as to write a very public defense of the Catholic Church and then some few short years later renounced it and formed his own. Why? Because he wanted to divorce his wife and marry another for...a desire to have a son...a wish to sleep with another woman without the shame of adultery (which, of course, he had already committed)...to basically do whatever the hell he wanted to do without the Pope or any other telling him what he could or should do.

So, yes...public pleas to piety and adherence to Christian values and principles would have been very much on show from these people, but behind the scenes their actions would (and did) belie those words. While I have played somewhat fast and loose with the facts of their actions, many of them did in real life occur. He is now long since passed (though remembered) but IRL, Edward (our Ned) was quite the...shall we say lover? He had many mistresses and while his relationship with Somerset was fictionalized for the story based on a rumor I read, I do believe it elevated his character to a higher believably. A recognized humanity that shows that we are, in fact, fallible and yet still forgivable. All too human as Nietzsche might say (he comes much later, obviously.)

It is interesting that you bring up Henry, Renss. I am pleased that you do. I have quite purposely had him speak to his piety often to separate him from the others in that regard. IRL he was rather famous for it and it is often suggested (and in the comments of this work) that he would have made a better priest than King. While historians go back and forth on his potential madness, to me his interest in things clerical/spiritual is what really sets him apart. I have (perhaps to my shame) had him speak on things to do with the Bible and the Church in a much more modern sense with things like the teachings of the Gospels as this was not really done back then, at least until the Reformation. However, I have had him do so to suggest that he does truly think about these things. The words are there and he has studied them. Anachronistic? Perhaps. True to form for Henry? Certainly.

And now to Richard and Isabella. I will pull away the curtain a little bit here and allow a view of my thinking as I began to structure these characters and this portion of the story. At the first, I have used the historical path of Catherine of Aragon (sometimes spelled with a K) as a base for Isabella. Their characters are much, much different but journey quite similar. A young Spanish (Castilian) Princess arrives to England to marry one Prince and ends up with another. He is unfaithful. So what does she do? I have a great deal of respect for the historical Catherine in that she never wavered from her Christian piety and in the entire ordeal of her divorce and indeed devotion to Henry (or at least her marriage to him.) Yet this is where things diverge from our known history. The historical Isabella was a strong woman and (at least to my mind) would have never submitted to such shameful behavior of a spouse meekly (though I do believe I've read of Ferdinand's infidelities.)

Now we have to consider Edmund (and again, a good reading Renss.) It is quite possible that he has imposter syndrome. While he professes often that he is not his brother Edward (Ned) and is reminded of it more than once, he cannot seem to stop following in Ned's footsteps in action and life. Part the reason I have created an affair between him and Elizabeth Woodville. It does beg more disbelief than the real affair between her and Edward (which led to quite a lot of strife re: Warwick et al.) Yet it made sense as far as his character goes. And hers, for that matter. They are following not the Christian teachings but rather their base motivations. And these things (even now in 2025) are quite often at odds.

As for Richard...young Richard...I have to admit a thing. There is no doubt that the base of this story was to look at what might happen had Richard of York won the throne, but so too has always been to rehabilitate the character of his son that has been so rudely maligned by the likes of Shakespeare and other Tudor propagandists. We have our Richard III in this story and it is not Gloucester. His journey and character is perhaps the most changed from anyone. A butterfly flaps their wings and all that. More to that, another guiding thought has always been...what happened during those years between the Yorkist victory and the Tudor emergence? It is not really covered in the histories (again...thanks Tudors! Grrr!) but it is not as if time stopped. Obviously I have some game information to utilize, but I really wanted to take a deep dive into these characters of the future...young Richard, Isabella, Edmund...and on and on.

I hope I have set Richard up as a character to show his intelligence. There is no doubting that even from our historical record. But is he really a "bottled spider" or some thing more or other? He and Isabella are much more aligned in age, and perhaps temperament. He knows that he cannot have her in a true Christian sense as wife and yet? He wants it anyway. Her too. Thus...conflict! Ta da! :D

Is it simplistic? Perhaps. But it is also fun in the writing. I always try to aim for verisimilitude, but so too realism. Maybe a heightened realism (my favorite playwright is Tennessee Williams) but a realism nonetheless. True human emotions that guide their motivations. While I am not much for tooting my own horn, I do believe that is why I had all of four different characters nominated for the recent YAYAs. Each unique in their own way. THAT is my goal.

Tl:dr? Shame on you! Pardon my MrT like verbosity (how did I do @Lord Durham?) but these were great comments and great comments deserve an exploration of mine own motivations. Thanks, fellas! I do appreciate it!

Now...back to the action at hand...and see if you can catch the I, Claudius reference. I just did my yearly re-watch and could not help myself. ;)
 
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Leicester, June 1468

“This is an outrage!” the King shouted to anyone within hearing distance.

The Earl of Kent tried to sooth him, “I am certain of your sure worry, Your Grace...yet it does take a time to call up men to thwart these upstarts.”

“Think not that I am remiss in knowing, my Lord,” Richard showed a wild eye, “For I have done this before. In truth, I have been to both sides and know well how dangerous such a thing may be. We hold little time, especially as my Lady wife be to peril!”

“They send missive for a ransom, sire,” Kent answered, “I believe not that they shall harm her. And she is a force, as we all know. Were I them, I should quake in fear.”

Richard slammed his hand to the mantle, “I want the ringleader! I’ll have his head on a pike faster than you can say boiled asparagus! No ransom will be had for I shall punish the lot of them!”

The Duke of Norfolk entered the hall and paused as he saw the King’s mood. He then pulled a parchment from his sleeve and delicately approached, “A rider comes from the North, Your Grace.”

“Montagu?!” Richard turned with some anticipation.

“Sadly, no,” the Duke replied as he handed over the letter, “It is from Sir William Stanley. He states that he is near to the town and awaits your arrival.”

“At least someone shows alacrity!” Richard fumed and turned to the Earl of Kent, “Where be your nephew, sir? Either of them?!”

The Earl shrugged, “Warwick be to Calais, I should think. As he works to sway this Duke of Brittany. As to John...”

“He is late, my Lord!” Richard stepped to him with irritation, “Was to be to here within the week and yet I do not see him. I had thought he may be wanting of the title as Earl of Northumberland yet this does give me pause.”

“It would assuredly be an honor...” Kent began to suggest but Norfolk shifted to hand the King some wine.

“He will be along soon enough, my Lord King. Have faith.”

Richard accepted it and tried to calm down as he looked to the cup, “My wife...my son. Do we know any more?”

“Not as yet,” the Earl of Kent suggested with sadness, “It is middling at best. Said that the Duke of Gloucester found passage away from the trouble, but there be no way to know.”

“But if he is not there...then where is he?” Norfolk mused.

“He’s a bright lad,” Richard nursed his wine, “I can only hope that he is caring for the others. My God...Stanley and Hastings...our Buckingham...how did this happen?”

“Their manifesto suggests onerous taxation, Your Grace,” The Duke allowed, “Whether it be yours or...”

Richard turned with anger, “Outrageous! Do these believe that wars are won upon no thing but a whim? They are costly and the cupboards are bare! Essex does his best, yet we have been so far behind. My cousin did not leave much as retainer.”

“They may not have liked also…” the Earl hesitated in giving answer, “...the seizure of land to there, Your Grace. Crown lands they be...yet they still call Henry as Lord.”

“And they would be wrong!” Richard threw his cup and turned to them both, “My Kingdom! My land! And those that belong to Stanley will still provide their due! The shit flows down stream, sirs! Not the other way round!”

“Might it be possible...” Kent offered again with reticence, “...to bring...your cousin...from his silence and solitude? Should he speak in your favor...I do believe that the people would understand.”

“I would get off that, my Lord,” Norfolk shook his head and looked to the King, “You are rightly in and it is time that they accept it. Yet the Earl does make a point. Kind favor to the people of Chester and those around...”

Richard would not hear it, “My hands are as anointed as any, and should they wish not a King than they shall find a devil! I offer good governance and have provided it. These be no thing but a rabble of malcontents and will be dealt with as such!”

“I think eight thousand to camp at the now, Your Grace,” the Earl of Kent offered, “Prepared to march when you are ready.”

“Surely that is enough, sire,” Norfolk followed.

“By God! What is their game?!” Richard fumed again, “To what point? What end?!”

A page entered and bent to a knee, “Your Grace...a note from the Prince.”

Richard took it and read. His eye found a slight tear as he looked up, “At least one son is well. Edmund states that he shall be without the walls of Chester within the week. We’ve no time to lose. Send for George and tell him to meet Montagu to here when he finally arrives. We leave at first light!”

* * *

Woking Manor, June 1468

“What does he play at, sir?” Margaret Beaufort questioned as the letter fell from her hand, “What does he hope to gain?”

Sir Reginald Bray stood proudly, “I could not say, my Lady. No one is able to understand it. Of course, the King does prove as dictator and we should all follow. Yet I did not think the Baron to be one to break a truce.”

“Tis not the Baron,” Margaret wrung her hands in thought, “For I think it another. This has the stink of Warwick to it. He that is so absent when the King is wanting.”

“Have you not answered him?” the knight questioned.

She looked up with worry, “Of course not. He would want more than I may provide. Nor shall I spill a word of it...for my son. And yet I fear that he is the target. Not Stanley. Not Chester. I believe he wishes to gain control of a body and hope that such will press Jasper Tudor from his hiding hole.”

“It may prove to work, my Lady,” Reginald Bray offered a disgusted nod, “Yet no one knows where he is...your son.”

She crossed herself, “Praise be to God! Henry...wherever you are...stay safe!”

“With your piety, my Lady, I be certain that Almighty God will hear your fervent prayers,” Bray replied with care, “And it is said that the Prince Edmund attempts to ride to the rescue.”

Margaret looked to him with determination, “Then find way to get word to my husband, sir. And see a wardrobe prepared. I should have been with the Queen...and my son on this progress. We may no longer rest easy to here. It shall take a wide net to do this fishing and I am not want to wait any longer.”
 
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These be no thing but a rabble of malcontents and will be dealt with as such
This little uprising will either disperse or escalate with that response to it...
 
“And they would be wrong!” Richard threw his cup and turned to them both, “My Kingdom! My land! And those that belong to Stanley will still provide their due! The shit flows down stream, sirs! Not the other way round!

Your kingdom?

Your land?

And whom do you rule for, 'King Richard'? Yourself?

Or the people...

Or God...

The belief that the crown is yours...is ALWAYS a self delusion...

I offer good governance and have provided it.

With respect, sire, you...have...not.

It is not enough merely to talk of good governance...nay, you must work it...and King Richard has done nothing but reward his favorites and pursue war in France...

She looked up with worry, “Of course not. He would want more than I may provide. Nor shall I spill a word of it...for my son. And yet I fear that he is the target. Not Stanley. Not Chester. I believe he wishes to gain control of a body and hope that such will press Jasper Tudor from his hiding hole.”

My God, how I miss this character!

She knows what the game is...and plays it...without all the hysterics!

Warwick is going to be defeated by a mere woman.

Delicious.

Margaret looked to him with determination, “Then find way to get word to my husband, sir. And see a wardrobe prepared. I should have been with the Queen...and my son on this progress. We may no longer rest easy to here. It shall take a wide net to do this fishing and I am not want to wait any longer.”

A plan...I eagerly await the execution of the as yet unrevealed plan.

:D
 
If this marriage between George and Mary goes through, where will the couple live? Burgundy, where they're going to rule? Or England? If it's Burgundy, isn't that a risk that the ruler of Burgundy will attempt to turn the second son against the rightful heir?

It's nice to see glimpses of the wider world.

I did like the mirroring about the potential marriage between one of York's sons and Mary.

What's Isabella's quarrel with Lord Rivers?

Isabella and Dickon's relationship could be a problem. After all, the current conflict began with a queen cheating on her husband. A repeat would not be good - especially if Isabella is ambitious and angers some of the nobles... (and, yes, I know they hadn't actually gone all the way before the birth of the first child. Still, people talk.)

Richard is very headstrong here. Angering most of the nobility may be an unwise course of action, though. What happens if they decide to back a weaker pretender who will let them have more power?

Does Warwick legitimately think that the Princess's new child is going to be illegitimate, or is he just saying that for personal gain? Given the conversation about truth that predated his claim, I can see a case for either.

The question of who holds the throne of France seems to be a large hurdle for diplomatic relations between Burgundy and England.

Given Charles's hatred for Warwick, I'd be interested to hear about his opinions of the possible war between Warwick and Richard (or at least Richard's line).

What entanglements does Burgundy have with the Empire?

What benefits does the Duke of Brittany get from sheltering Jasper Tudor - or Margaret of Anjou, for that matter.

It seems that Margaret has not stopped her scheming. Will we see a three-way civil war, then (Warwick vs. York vs. Margaret)?

Is Warwick trying to prop up George as a potential future puppet king?

It looks like Richard might need to worry about more than just the nobility too. Are the people who hold Cecily common brigands, or do they represent a more general discontent?

If Isabella and Dickon get caught, that will be a problem. I think they might get caught, too - the ship isn't that big.

"Faster than you can say boiled asparagus"... why a boiled asparagus? Is this some saying that I don't know?

We'll see if Richard's response creates more outrage.