THIRD REICH AoD MOD

[Gringoesteban]

Again on Stalingrad/oil

Another way to model this would be something along the lines of what happens when Moscow falls. When the Soviets relocate their capital from Moscow to Sverdlovsk, their resource pool is reduced by -3500 supplies, oil, energy, metal, and rares. If the Germans capture the city, then those resources get captured by the Germans. See below...


####################
Capture of Moscow
####################
event = {
id = 80092
random = no
country = GER

name = "Capture of Moscow"
desc = "The Germans captured a large stockpile of goods that were left behind when the Soviet government fled Moscow."
picture = "moscow"
style = 0

trigger = {
war = { country = SOV country = GER }
control = { province = 1828 data = SOV } #relocated SOV capital will be here
control = { province = 175 data = GER } #Moscow
}

date = { day = 22 month = june year = 1941 }
offset = 7
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1999 }

action_a = {
name = "Na zdorovje, comrade"
command = { type = supplies value = 3500 where = 175 }
command = { type = metalpool value = 3500 where = 175 }
command = { type = energypool value = 3500 where = 175 }
command = { type = rarematerialspool value = 3500 where = 175 }
command = { type = oilpool value = 3500 where = 175 }
}
}

 

[Titan79]

Another way to model this would be something along the lines of what happens when Moscow falls. When the Soviets relocate their capital from Moscow to Sverdlovsk, their resource pool is reduced by -3500 supplies, oil, energy, metal, and rares. If the Germans capture the city, then those resources get captured by the Germans. See below...

Good idea, I like it.

However, the reason because I reckon the "Stalingrad suggestion" to be so important is that I'm thinking of a way to better simulate the importance the city had during WW2, and the reason it became the theatre of such a gigantic battle. I mean, at some point it became a question of "honour" for both dictators who didn't want to lose it to the other; but it is hard to make a e.g. German player commit many, many forces to the capture of the city only because it bears the name of Stalin and little else... On the other hand, a more rewarding reason to seize it would be to severely limit Soviet oil supply by its conquest. The Soviet AI could be "instructed" to give high priority to its defense, which could mean the possibility of recreating a clash like the one in RL.

Please, try to add this to your mod somehow... it would be awesome!

 

[Gringoesteban]

I will see what I can do.


Remember that the Red Army has three locked garrison divisions in Stalingrad and the city has a level 7 landfort and level 7 provincial AA. The Soviet AI has an event that fires if the Germans capture any of the provinces adjacent to Stalingrad. That event creates the 62nd Army with an HQ Division and 8 brigaded 1941 infantry divisions that get placed directly into the Stalingrad province. Note how the name of the Army and the divisions correspond to the names of the Russian units that actually fought in Stalingrad. And I have a quote from General Chuikov who commanded the Soviet forces in Stalingrad. And I have a famous picture from the battle that I downloaded from the internet. I try to keep "flavor" as high as possible in the Mod....


#########################################################################
# Stalingrad Shall Not Fall
#########################################################################

event = {
id = 80094
random = no
country = SOV

name = "Defend Stalingrad"
desc = "Uncle Joe Stalin would lose face if his namesake city fell to Adolf"
picture = "Stalin"
style = 0

trigger = {
war = { country = SOV country = GER }
OR = {
control = { province = 159 data = GER }
control = { province = 162 data = GER }
control = { province = 271 data = GER }
control = { province = 164 data = GER }
control = { province = 1834 data = GER }
control = { province = 1835 data = GER }
}
}

date = { day = 22 month = june year = 1941 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1999 }

action_a = {
name = "Throw troops into the meat grinder"
command = { type = add_corps which = "Stalingrad Front" value = land when = 10848 where = 163 }
command = { type = add_division which = "62nd Army HDQ" value = hq when = 2 where = engineer }
command = { type = add_division which = "87th Rifle Division" value = infantry when = 3 where = rocket_artillery }
command = { type = add_division which = "98th Rifle Division" value = infantry when = 3 where = rocket_artillery }
command = { type = add_division which = "112th Rifle Division" value = infantry when = 3 where = rocket_artillery }
command = { type = add_division which = "131st Rifle Division" value = infantry when = 3 where = rocket_artillery }
command = { type = add_division which = "196th Rifle Division" value = infantry when = 3 where = rocket_artillery }
command = { type = add_division which = "229th Rifle Division" value = infantry when = 3 where = rocket_artillery }
command = { type = add_division which = "244th Rifle Division" value = infantry when = 3 where = rocket_artillery }
command = { type = add_division which = "315th Rifle Division" value = infantry when = 3 where = rocket_artillery }
command = { type = trigger which = 79845 } #GER notice
}
}

#########################################################################
# Gringo notice event
#########################################################################
event = {
id = 79845
random = no
country = GER

name = "Brutal Urban Combat"
desc = "Military intelligence reports warn that the Red Army has organized the 62nd Army to defend Stalingrad. ''We do not dare lose the city.... There is no land past the Volga.'' - General Chuikov, commander of the Soviet 62nd Army"
picture = "stalingradpic"
style = 0

# triggered by SOV 80094

action_a = {
name = "We will raze Stalingrad!"
command = { }
}
}

 

[Titan79]

Great, now it's only time for testing and maybe tweaking that a bit. I'm going to be one of those testers soon, I hope.

This and the oil thing, should you implement it, should make the fight for the "City of doom" even more interesting!

 

[Gringoesteban]

This and the oil thing, should you implement it, should make the fight for the "City of doom" even more interesting!

I updated the event file so that if Germany captures Stalingrad then Germany gets +3,500 each of supplies, metal, enery, rare materials, and oil. The Soviet's resource pool is reduced by a corresponding amount.


In TRM, the Soviets receive 6 free offmap oil production to (a) provide oil for their 30 locked garrison divisions, all of which have attached engineer brigades, and (b) to help offset the impact of lower provincial infrastructure vs. vanilla, which reduces how much oil Russian provinces generate. When Stalingrad is captured, I eliminate this 6 free offmap oil bonus. Therefore, if Stalingrad falls, then the Soviets lose 6 oil per day compared to what they were getting before they lost the city. This helps illustrate the strategic location of Stalingrad on the Volga which could hinder the transport of oil from the Caucasus to the interior of Russia.


I decided this was the simplest solution rather than having a whole series of events that fired one way or another depending on who held the city, and whether that same country also held Baku. It would have become kind of messy and not really added to much to the game.


Here are new events....


#########################################################################
# Capture of Stalingrad
#########################################################################

event = {
id = 79824
random = no
country = GER

name = "Capture of Stalingrad"
desc = "The Germans captured a large stockpile of goods when they finally captured Stalingrad. Furthermore, because the city occupied such a strategic location on the Volga River, German occupation of Stalingrad hindered Soviet transport of oil from the Caucasus to the interior of the Soviet Union."
picture = "stalingradpic"
style = 0

trigger = {
war = { country = SOV country = GER }
control = { province = 163 data = GER } # Stalingrad
}

date = { day = 22 month = june year = 1941 }
offset = 7
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1999 }

action_a = {
name = "Na zdorovje, comrade"
command = { type = supplies value = 3500 where = 163 }
command = { type = metalpool value = 3500 where = 163 }
command = { type = energypool value = 3500 where = 163 }
command = { type = rarematerialspool value = 3500 where = 163 }
command = { type = oilpool value = 3500 where = 163 }
command = { type = trigger which = 79823 }
}
}
#########################################################################
# Loss of Stalingrad
#########################################################################

event = {
id = 79823
random = no
country = SOV

name = "Loss of Stalingrad"
desc = "The Germans captured a large stockpile of goods when they finally conquered the city."
picture = "stalingradpic"
style = 0

# triggered by 79824 GER

action_a = {
name = "Na zdorovje, comrade"
command = { type = supplies value = -3500 }
command = { type = metalpool value = -3500 }
command = { type = energypool value = -3500 }
command = { type = rarematerialspool value = -3500 }
command = { type = oilpool value = -3500 }
command = { type = free_oil value = -6 } # net down to zero no more free oil due to Volga being cut
}
}

 

[Titan79]

Hmm, I understand that's a simpler solution, but given that Baku (and the rest of the Caucasus oil fields) should produce some 70-80 oil per day, a loss of a mere 6 oil/day for the Soviets is like a drop in the sea. Couldn't you just give them a 50-60 oil off-map penalty if the Germans capture Stalingrad? If the Russians retake the city, the oil flow starts again on next day and the penalty disappears.

Another thing I was writing about yesterday - "prioritizing" the city's defense by the AI. Apart from units which appear in/near Stalingrad if the Germans approach it, I was wondering if there's a chance to do something similar to what you've done for Allied D-Day landing priorities, i.e. telling the Soviet AI to commit more forces in the fight for Stalingrad than in other spots along the front (this would need to be fine-tuned somehow, but you get the idea).

 

[Gringoesteban]

....telling the Soviet AI to commit more forces in the fight for Stalingrad than in other spots along the front....

I just did a quick spot check of a couple SOV AI switch files to make sure that this was already included in the Mod. Province 163 (Stalingrad) is prioritized in the SOV_1941 and the SOV_retaliate files. I did not check the other files (there are a lot of them) but since all the files are more-or-less based off one another, we can be confident that the Soviet AI will do its best to hold the city.

 

[Titan79]

I just did a quick spot check of a couple SOV AI switch files to make sure that this was already included in the Mod. Province 163 (Stalingrad) is prioritized in the SOV_1941 and the SOV_retaliate files. I did not check the other files (there are a lot of them) but since all the files are more-or-less based off one another, we can be confident that the Soviet AI will do its best to hold the city.

Excellent! Now my only wish is for a bigger oil penalty for the Soviets; then I've got nothing more to ask.

 

[Endibear]

Originally Posted by Endibear
and in an very quick test over x-mas, as germany i have no usage (0.0) of consumer goods, but autocontroll spend 20.
That's strange. Could you explain a little more? I did not do anything in the Mod that would impact consumer good spending so maybe it is a bug in the AoD 1.06B1 release? If it continues to be an issue, please report it in the 106B1 thread in the tech support form.

This first try was very quick, I want only have a look about stability game and mod. Now in my second game, I change social policy to militarisc focus.
I did not correct searching the effects, but now I had for a small time period 3.23 usage of consumer goods.

I hope your understand my bad english.

Happy New Year to all

 

[Kirkegaard]

Had a game and must admit it is very hard.

Some observations from my game:
Rep. Spain and Nat. Spain did go into a status quoe.
Japan won very fast against China.
It is almost impossible to win against the Russians.

My proposal with the new MP cost for AA, Infra, Factories etc. I think Germany should get more MP, maybe 150-250 since you will most likely end up spending quite a lot of your MP on upgrades back home. Somehow I do also think that there should be done something to delay production in some way, I did not build a single MP costly unit after mid 40, because the MP was low already there and I don't think this is historical.

 

[Gringoesteban]

Some observations from my game:
Rep. Spain and Nat. Spain did go into a status quo.
Japan won very fast against China..

Something must have happened between 1.04 and 1.06B1 to give a boost to SPR against Nationalist Spain and also to help JAP conquer China. When I updated TRM to version 0.9, I created a couple new events to try to balance things back, but maybe I need to re-balance even more...

from the v0.9 change control log:
• Nationalist Spain gets two free infantry divisions once the Spanish Civil War begins because it needs help to beat SPR. In handsoff playtests in AoD 1.06 for some reason SPA usually lost to SPR, which is ahistoric and seldom happened in AoD 1.04.
• Nationalist China gets up to nine free infantry divisions if it starts losing badly to the Japanese. This prevents JAP from beating CHI too easily, which would be ahistorical. Similar to the SPA bullet, above, this did not seem to happen much in previous versions of AoD.​

It is almost impossible to win against the Russians.

Were you playing 'Bring Em On!' or regular Barbarossa campaign? I have not been able to beat the Red Army with Bring Em On but on the regular settings I can do it.

When you say almost did you beat them, or did you resign before the game ended?

My proposal with the new MP cost for AA, Infra, Factories etc..

In the next release of TRM I will change the MP cost for infrastructure, airfields, convoys, and escorts back to their original value (the value that was fine in HOI2 and DD and Arma and AoD 1.02 and 1.03 and 1.04).

I think Germany should get more MP, maybe 150-250 since you will most likely end up spending quite a lot of your MP on upgrades back home. Somehow I do also think that there should be done something to delay production in some way, I did not build a single MP costly unit after mid 40, because the MP was low already there and I don't think this is historical.

The Hiwi events are new in 0.9, and those give the Germans 100 more manpower than in previous versions of the Mod. (Each of the four Hiwi events gives GER +25 MP). Other than that, it's really up to the Player to manage his manpower pool. Historically, the Germans kept creating new divisions rather than reinforcing depleted ones, so towards the end of the war the Wehrmacht fielded a large number of divisions but many of them were down to battalion strength.

 

[Amallric]

Somehow I do also think that there should be done something to delay production in some way, I did not build a single MP costly unit after mid 40, because the MP was low already there and I don't think this is historical.

Well did you follow a historical build-up? Historically MP ran out by the end of 1941.

 

[Titan79]

@ Gringoesteban,

some more ideas to make your mod still more interesting.

● 1) You've instructed the USA AI to build strat bombers and that's excellent. Have you ever thought, though, to tell the USA AI to bomb during daytime and the UK AI to bomb (almost) exclusively at night?

- 1a) Another nice thing re: air war would consist in giving the AI some priority for bombing Germany's main oil sources, especially from a certain year/moment onwards. It could be e.g. in 1944 that the USA AI switches to an aggressive Ploesti/German synth fuel bombing campaign which could last some weeks.

- 1b) Again on that: the air war should be a real challenge for the Luftwaffe but mainly from 1942 onwards. 1939-1941 should be rather "quiet" years, at least in comparison with the following ones.

- 1c) USSR should produce a good deal of CAS, as well as Tac and Fig.

● 2) Last but not least: on Stalingrad again. What about rising a bit the IC value of the city? It was one of the main centers of Soviet tank production - at least until it had been destroyed by air bombings. Another attempt to enhance its importance in game and to actually make the German player want to conquer it.

 

[Gringoesteban]

1) You've instructed the USA AI to build strat bombers and that's excellent. Have you ever thought, though, to tell the USA AI to bomb during daytime and the UK AI to bomb (almost) exclusively at night?

I don't think this is possible. I did, however, instruct the UK and US AI's to accept huge losses relative to Germany's when doing strategic bombing runs. The idea is that over time the repeated air raids will break the back of the Luftwaffe, although the Allies will lose a lot of bombers at the outset.

Another nice thing re: air war would consist in giving the AI some priority for bombing Germany's main oil sources, especially from a certain year/moment onwards. It could be e.g. in 1944 that the USA AI switches to an aggressive Ploesti/German synth fuel bombing campaign which could last some weeks.

In the ai/switch files there is no way to get this specific on strategic bombing targeting. On the bright side, in 1.05 the AoD Dev's improved the AI's target selection.

Again on that: the air war should be a real challenge for the Luftwaffe but mainly from 1942 onwards. 1939-1941 should be rather "quiet" years, at least in comparison with the following ones..

The Mod works like this already.

USSR should produce a good deal of CAS, as well as Tac and Fig...

They do. Don't worry, your troops will be pounded by Sturmkoviks.

Last but not least: on Stalingrad again. What about rising a bit the IC value of the city? It was one of the main centers of Soviet tank production - at least until it had been destroyed by air bombings. Another attempt to enhance its importance in game and to actually make the German player want to conquer it.

I could move a couple IC points from surrounding provinces and put them in Stalingrad.

 

[Titan79]

Thank you for the replies. Nothing more to add atm since it seems that you've already done everything I could wish for (and which could technically be done)...

Yeah, Stalingrad's importance would further increase with that little IC boost. Now, please only think of a good way to implement that "Volga blockade" idea (with a rather massive oil penalty for the Soviets), of course provided you regard it as a good one! The first proposal you came up with, though, seemed fair to me ("mobile event" which is enabled only if the Germans actually occupy the city and which gives USSR a penalty of about -50 oil, cancelled if they retake Stalingrad).

 

[doktordave]

Quick feedback on some oddities (I guess?) from two games (the last one being ongoing):

- As Japan: Manchukuo produces a lot of interceptors, like a dozen in 1943. Normal?
- As Germany: Half of Hungary's army are Cavs. Normal?

As a sidenote, I like how the lowered infra makes you rotate units out of the front line for some R&R org recovery (even though it is a bloody pain with Germany in winter Russia, but i guess that was the plan all along )

Hoping that helps, keep up the good work!

D

 

[Gringoesteban]

- As Japan: Manchukuo produces a lot of interceptors, like a dozen in 1943. Normal?

I will check this.

- As Germany: Half of Hungary's army are Cavs. Normal?

Yeah, I noticed this too. They produced like 10 level II cavalry in my game. Completely worthless units. This never happened until the AoD 106B1 patch came out, so I suspect that something changed in the exe to tell HUN to build cav units if they had not yet researched motorized infantry. Anyway, I have fixed this for the next TRM release and HUN will no longer construct cavalry units (or motorized infantry for that matter). HUN will now build only brigaded leg infantry, tac bombers, and interceptors.

As a sidenote, I like how the lowered infra makes you rotate units out of the front line for some R&R org recovery (even though it is a bloody pain with Germany in winte Russia, but i guess that was the plan all along )

The Russian campaign is definitely hard in this Mod. But believe it or not I finally achieved Bitter Peace under the Bring Em On option!

Hoping that helps, keep up the good work!

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Titan79]

HUN will now build only brigaded leg infantry, tac bombers, and interceptors.

What about making them build some (a few compared to INT) Figthers as well? Let's say with a proportion of 3 Int : 1 Fig.

 

[Gringoesteban]

What about making them (HUN) build some (a few compared to INT) Figthers as well? Let's say with a proportion of 3 Int : 1 Fig.

For all the nations where I updated AI files, each nation specializes in either fighters or interceptors. I did this to help focus tech research.

For example, the USA does not need interceptors because its national territory is well-beyond the range of any enemy aircraft. Therefore, the USA will research and build fighters but not interceptors.

The UK, on the other hand, can expect an air war over western Europe followed by the Battle of Britain. Therefore, ENG will research and build interceptors but not fighters.

The Soviet Union and Germany are the only exceptions; they will research and build both fighters and interceptors. They need short range defensive aircraft but they also need long range offensive aircraft due to the geographic size of Russia.

 

[Titan79]

For all the nations where I updated AI files, each nation specializes in either fighters or interceptors. I did this to help focus tech research. (...)

Ok, it's clear - on the other hand, I'd say the UK could build some fighters, too (given that they could/should receive some blueprints for them by the USA). They would be more efficient in fighting the Luftwaffe, especially after a succesful invasion (=more offensive opportunities for the RAF which interceptors wouldn't exploit as that good).

As for the USA... you're right. Although I'd like to know that they build a few INT too (come on, they have the teams/IC to do that ) just for the sake of aircraft types/icons variety. Moreover, USA Interceptors consist mainly of Pacific war's aircraft (Wildcat, Hellcat, Corsair...) so having the USA use them mostly against Japan would add flavor/historicity.