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is it just me or do others always seem to have tremendous metal, and rare problems all the time? how do people solve their resource problems in 36 till barbarossa?

I gave the human player a -14 resource penalty in the difficulty file to help represent some of the challenges that Germany faced in real life. You need to trade for resources. Even better, go to Diplomacy ==> Open Negotiations ==> Resources. Before Danzig or War, you can trade with the allies and some resource-rich south american countries like Colombia. Once the war starts, trade with the Soviets. You will get a whole lot of money when you annex Luxembourg, so every two weeks after that make sure you do a deal with the Soviets. I usually swap say $300 for 450(?) rares, if I remember right. Do that a few dozen times and your resource pool will get pretty big. I never start dealing until 1937 because you cannot really get a good deal with anyone in 1936 because they are still building up their own resource stockpiles.

gringo - could you tell us what you build and what forces you have available by the time barbarossa rolls around?

I usually try to build a historical mix of forces, including Stukas (CAS), motorized infantry, assault gun brigades, etc. But with that approach I could never win the Bring Em On Barbarossa option. In my latest game -- where I actually won!! -- I used more focused approach in my builds and research; for example, I did not build or research CAS or any CAS air doctrine or anti tank guns or tank destroyers. This is what I had on 19 May 1941 when I attacked Russia:

91 infantry, 5 L Arm, 6 Arm, 3 Marine, 5 Mountain, 11 Garrison, 9 HQ ==> 132 land divisions. All infantry were brigaded with Artillery and all armored were brigaded with Heavy Armor. (I would have had three more marine divisions, but the Royal Navy sank three of my transport ships with three marine divisions when I tried to do an amphibious assault on Suez). All divisions and brigades were fully upgraded to 1941 models. I kept 452 MP in my manpower pool to use as reinforcements.

I used the entire Wehrmacht in my Barbarossa campaign, except for five mountain divisions that I kept in Norway and a few garrison divisions that were scattered around Europe. As of 19 May 1941, I had 2 Airborne Divisions, 2 Panzer Divisions, and 1 Transport Plane in my production queue.

The Luftwaffe was comprised of 6 Fighters, 16 Interceptors, 21 Tac Bombers with Escort Brigades, and 1 Transport Plane.

I protected coastal provinces in France and elsewhere with troops from my Axis minor allies. I assumed military control of Bulgaria, Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia, and Romania and used several dozen of their divisions in my Barbarossa campaign. I had taken military control of Italy until the point when I captured Suez, but after that I released control and did not use Italian troops in my Russian campaign.
 
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Do you plan to update TRM for 1.06 beta 2 or just wait until the release?

I have no plans to update to 106B2. I cannot understand the delay in getting this patch out....

Darkest Hour is supposed to be released next month. I expect to begin playing DH at that time and probably won't spend too much time on AoD or the Third Reich Mod after that. So let's hope the official AoD 1.06 patch comes out before DH....


Funny to see complaints in the beta 2 thread about the UK not garrisoning its home islands... Even with all the patches I can't see playing AoD unmodded.
This has been a problem ever since HOI2. No change to the ai/switch files can fix it. Many have tried.


Even with all the patches I can't see playing AoD unmodded.
As Bill Clinton would say, "I feel your pain."
 
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Darkest Hour is supposed to be released next month. I expect to begin playing DH at that time and probably won't spend too much time on AoD or the Third Reich Mod after that. So let's hope the official AoD 1.06 patch comes out before DH....
Will you make a similar mod for DH?
 
well, I hope you continue your mod for AoD. Although DH looks like it will be awesome, I'm not so keen on going back to a non-AoD style economic system or anything like the old WiF mod it's based on. Also, the research tree looks like tedium defined. But who knows if it will be great besides that, just depends on the AI, really. If it provides a challenge or not. That's what the TRM does for AoD, for those of us who prefer to play as Germany.
 
91 infantry, 5 L Arm, 6 Arm, 3 Marine, 5 Mountain, 11 Garrison, 9 HQ ==> 132 land divisions. All infantry were brigaded with Artillery and all armored were brigaded with Heavy Armor. (I would have had three more marine divisions, but the Royal Navy sank three of my transport ships with three marine divisions when I tried to do an amphibious assault on Suez). All divisions and brigades were fully upgraded to 1941 models. I kept 452 MP in my manpower pool to use as reinforcements.
.

so wait...you essentially only built infantry and garissons? bc you get 5 lt tanks (3 at the start, 1, after czech takeover and 1 afrika korps), the other 6 i think are all free units - so you never built any armor - was it to conserve resources? how did you manage to win with such a feeble armored force? it sounds amazing lol
 
well, I hope you continue your mod for AoD. Although DH looks like it will be awesome, I'm not so keen on going back to a non-AoD style economic system or anything like the old WiF mod it's based on. Also, the research tree looks like tedium defined. But who knows if it will be great besides that, just depends on the AI, really. If it provides a challenge or not. That's what the TRM does for AoD, for those of us who prefer to play as Germany.

Strictly speaking, Darkest Hour is not based on my old HOI2 WIF mod.
Of course the experience I gathered while modding helped me when I went into developing. :)
I would also love to see a mod of this kind developed for DH. I know some people from the French community who cannot play Germany in AOD without the Third Reich mod.
The dev team is ready to provide full support to modders. :)
 
-snip-

The dev team is ready to provide full support to modders. :)

Muscling in on our territory,eh Mugsy? :)

...

that-is-a-joke.jpg


( Bonus points for catching the reference )

Best of luck with DH, by the way.
 
I would also love to see a mod of this kind developed for DH. I know some people from the French community who cannot play Germany in AOD without the Third Reich mod.


Wow, after I comment like that from the master himself, now I have no choice but to make a Mod for DH.... :) In any case, I am certainly looking forward to trying out vanilla DH with its updated map, manpower system, event paths, etc.

But enough of a thread jack. This is the AoD forum, after all.

In the meantime, as we wait for DH, it would be nice to release and play an updated (and final?) version of the Third Reich AoD Mod. BUT that won't happen until after the official 1.06 patch comes out. So, Radu, I assume you're spending every spare minute of your free time working on the 1.06 patch???
 
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Strictly speaking, Darkest Hour is not based on my old HOI2 WIF mod.
Of course the experience I gathered while modding helped me when I went into developing. :) ...

I imagine that everyone on this forum is of course going to buy and play DH. And DH with the TRM will be even better.

Anyway... I've found in my games that I don't need to make any additional armor, either. Or INF, for that matter. Just motorized infantry, a few mountain for the north, and HQ. And a very very large air force, ~30 interceptor, 12 tac, 16 cas.

In my last game I did have this strange situation where my troops in allied Finnish territory just could not regain org fast enough to survive against the Russians. Even though I had almost 3:1 numerical superiority and big stacks of mountain troops- eventually I had to pull them all out and lost Finland as it was a wasteful dispersion of force.

(the extra divisions back on the main eastern front then played a pivotal role in trapping and eliminating over 100 Soviet divisions in the Ukraine, from which the AI, unlike history, never recovered)

edit : of course IRL, if German troops abandoned Finland there would be a huge dissent hit and all sorts of negative reactions in the neutral press. So maybe this should be in the TRM, AS WELL as an option in the first Finland events if the player even wants them in the Axis...
 
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91 infantry, 5 L Arm, 6 Arm, 3 Marine, 5 Mountain, 11 Garrison, 9 HQ ==> 132 land divisions. All infantry were brigaded with Artillery and all armored were brigaded with Heavy Armor. (I would have had three more marine divisions, but the Royal Navy sank three of my transport ships with three marine divisions when I tried to do an amphibious assault on Suez). All divisions and brigades were fully upgraded to 1941 models. I kept 452 MP in my manpower pool to use as reinforcements.
+1 with clist123abc, how hard is this mod if you can successfully invade the USSR with an even smaller army then Germany used in real life?
 
+1 with clist123abc, how hard is this mod if you can successfully invade the USSR with an even smaller army then Germany used in real life?

Dude, play the Mod on normal/normal settings and choose the Bring Em On Barbarossa option. No reloading. No cheats. Then tell me what you think.
 
Dude, play the Mod on normal/normal settings and choose the Bring Em On Barbarossa option. No reloading. No cheats. Then tell me what you think.

Ok, but BTW I'm in Feb 1940 and I have 101 Infantry (9 more on the queue for Barbarossa), 7 Mot Infantry (7 more in queue), 5 L Arm, 8 Arm (9 more in queue), 10 Mountain, 2 HQ (with 4 more on the way) -> 162 divisions (excluding current and future garrisons) Nearly all of my divisions are brigaded.
I find it weird that you used such a small force and won, and kilolima said he didn't make ANY additional armour and infantry and won. :confused: I thought airforces didn't make that much of a difference due to the superstacks (although I do have 18 Tac Bombers, 13 Int, 4 Fighters with more on the way)
I did reload, but that was during peacetime to change my production strategy.

Very good mod, I reached June 1940, beat France (note the Schlieffen-Moltke plan [the one including the Netherlands] works better then the Manstein plan, but prepare defences also in Cologne and launch diversionary attacks from there, as the French AI pours troops into Luxembourg and Belgium [including Ardennes so that why Manstein plan not so good] but try and flank the Maginot line from Belgium border as I did and encircle around 40 divisions :p)
I found out how bad I've become as I haven't played AoD for a while by seeing nearly all of my airforce divisions go down to less then 50% strength and after the French campaign needing around 201MP to reinforce the Wehrmacht (with only 332MP available). However, on the bright side: during the naval battles around Norway, my Kriegsmarine managed to sink 7 capital and 4 screen ships of the Royal Navy, at the loss of 1 Light Cruiser and 1 (ancient) Destroyer in one battle.
I find it silly that my ships have to go around the British Isles to rebase in western French ports, or did that happen in real life?
And are submarines a good tactic against the UK? I've managed to have around 30 submarines by June 1940, is that good? Or should I just make a surface fleet as a defence against a possible invasion force or convoy attacks?
I think I'm going to restart the 1936 (not necessarily reload) scenario as I've done so badly. Is installing Goebbels as Minister for Security good for MP as he's has +10% for foreign MP use, or is that good? (sorry if its a stupid question)
Should I invest in strategic bombers to ensure the UK isn't a threat instead of submarines and tactical bombers?
Or naval bombers to help me try to invade the UK and set up a puppet state? Or would that be too costly?
 
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I'm in Feb 1940 and I have 101 Infantry (9 more on the queue for Barbarossa), 7 Mot Infantry (7 more in queue), 5 L Arm, 8 Arm (9 more in queue), 10 Mountain, 2 HQ (with 4 more on the way) -> 162 divisions (excluding current and future garrisons) Nearly all of my divisions are brigaded.
I find it weird that you used such a small force and won, and kilolima said he didn't make ANY additional armour and infantry and won. :confused: I thought airforces didn't make that much of a difference due to the superstacks (although I do have 18 Tac Bombers, 13 Int, 4 Fighters with more on the way)

I suspect there are four major differences between our armies:
(i) my divisions and brigades were all fully upgraded and fully reinforced as of May 1941 when I declared war on Russia,
(ii) I had many more HQ's, the idea being that they increase ESE because supply becomes a big problem as you drive east,
(iii) I had 452 manpower left in my MP pool to use as reinforcements whereas I suspect your MP pool is quite low, and
(iv) as you pointed out your army is larger and you have many more divisions.

I guess it comes down to whether the combined impact of (i) + (ii) + (iii) is more or less important than (iv).


I did reload, but that was during peacetime to change my production strategy

Sure, something like that's perfectly normal, and that's not really what I meant. What I was referring to is a campaign "do-over" if say someone suddenly found 20 of their best divisions surrounded deep inside Russia and reloaded from an autosave to try again. On the other hand, this is a game, and as such is meant to be fun. Besides, since it takes many hours to play the Mod all the way through to Dec 1946, it can be hard to stay focused and if someone makes a dumb mistake (like not noticing the allies have landed in Norway or Greece) then why not reload. At the end of the day, if somebody decides to reload from a save and try an alternative approach then that's their call.


Very good mod, I reached June 1940, beat France (note the Schlieffen-Moltke plan [the one including the Netherlands] works better then the Manstein plan, but prepare defences also in Cologne and launch diversionary attacks from there, as the French AI pours troops into Luxembourg and Belgium [including Ardennes so that why Manstein plan not so good] but try and flank the Maginot line from Belgium border as I did and encircle around 40 divisions

I generally use the Schlieffen Plan as well, for the same reason. It comes down to the HOI2 map, where taking the Ardennes province (named Bastogne?) does not really give you a clear path westward. The AI can easily move troops to stop you. I have not tried the E3 map (for AoD) or looked at the DH map, but maybe the layout of those maps is different.


I find it silly that my ships have to go around the British Isles to rebase in western French ports, or did that happen in real life?

It is pretty accurate because the British would have pulverized any ships they saw going through the Channel. As far as I know, there was only one major movement of Kriegsmarine ships through the English Channel during the war. To plagiarize Wikipedia:
The Channel Dash, (codenamed Operation Cerberus by the Germans, occurred on 11 Feb 1942 when a German Kriegsmarine squadron consisting of Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Prinz Eugen, supported by a number of smaller ships, ran a British blockade and successfully sailed from Brest in Brittany to their home bases in Germany via the English Channel.


And are submarines a good tactic against the UK? I've managed to have around 30 submarines by June 1940, is that good?

I always build some subs for flavor, but since the UK (as well as USA, JAP, and ITA) receive free convoy ships via event, you likely will not be able to do a successful blockade.

I think I'm going to restart the 1936 (not necessarily reload) scenario as I've done so badly.
Your call, but why not keep playing until the Barbarossa Campaign? That's the best part of the Mod, at least in my opinion.

Is installing Goebbels as Minister for Security good for MP as he's has +10% for foreign MP use, or is that good?

You should install Goebbels as soon as he becomes available because you need all the MP you can get. I moved up his availability by a few years compared to vanilla AoD. I can't remember exactly, but in vanilla I think he is available in 1943(?) and in TRM you can install him in 1940(?).

Should I invest in strategic bombers to ensure the UK isn't a threat?

I have never build strategic bombers as Germany. It may work, but it seems like a huge investment of IC and tech research for little gain.

Or naval bombers to help me try to invade the UK and set up a puppet state? Or would that be too costly?

If you can build 4-8 naval bombers, that would be ideal, but I never build them until the point where I have almost defeated the Soviets, and I don't start researching naval bomber techs until late 1941 or early 1942.

I usually put 6 BBIV and 4 CV and 6 CVL in my production queue after I launch Barbarossa and after I have discovered the Ship Assembly Line tech. That way, by the time I achieve Bitter Peace, then the Kriegsmarine should be large enough to attempt a Sealowe.
 
I checked my save file from 19 May 1941 and this was the Red Army's order of battle:

Divisions
Infantry 158
Cavalry 5
Motorized 39
Light Arm 4
Armored 21
Mountain 28
Garrison 30
HQ 6
Total = 291 divisions

The Soviets also get 65 additional free divisions during the course of the campaign. When the Great Patriotic War event fires, they also get +1,250 manpower in their MP pool.

In the Bring Em On option, the Soviets get another 74 free divisions via events, for a total of 139.
 
I suspect there are four major differences between our armies:
(i) my divisions and brigades were all fully upgraded and fully reinforced as of May 1941 when I declared war on Russia,
(ii) I had many more HQ's, the idea being that they increase ESE because supply becomes a big problem as you drive east,
(iii) I had 452 manpower left in my MP pool to use as reinforcements whereas I suspect your MP pool is quite low, and
(iv) as you pointed out your army is larger and you have many more divisions.

I guess it comes down to whether the combined impact of (i) + (ii) + (iii) is more or less important than (iv).
AoD wise, is having 2 Panzer III divisions better or worse then one Panzer IV Division? I wanna say quantity is better, but how does AoD model it? Does the stacking penalty make quality much more important? And with such a small army (IMO of course) what did you build over the 5 year period upto Barbarossa? Lots of IC and infra? And how long did it take you to get Bitter Peace? 1943? 1944? And how many casualties did you take and how many did the USSR take? How could you encircle units with such a small panzer force?

It is pretty accurate because the British would have pulverized any ships they saw going through the Channel. As far as I know, there was only one major movement of Kriegsmarine ships through the English Channel during the war. To plagiarize Wikipedia:
The Channel Dash, (codenamed Operation Cerberus by the Germans, occurred on 11 Feb 1942 when a German Kriegsmarine squadron consisting of Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Prinz Eugen, supported by a number of smaller ships, ran a British blockade and successfully sailed from Brest in Brittany to their home bases in Germany via the English Channel.
OK, so did RL Germany build subs and deploy them straight into French ports?

Your call, but why not keep playing until the Barbarossa Campaign? That's the best part of the Mod, at least in my opinion.
Because the UK is bombing me at will (and its only June-1940) as all my fighter and interceptor units are vastly under-strength (poor tactics on my part) As well as low manpower (I'll focus more on quality) But why are panzer divisions the same manpower cost as infantry?

should install Goebbels as soon as he becomes available because you need all the MP you can get. I moved up his availability by a few years compared to vanilla AoD. I can't remember exactly, but in vanilla I think he is available in 1943(?) and in TRM you can install him in 1940(?).
Yeah its 1940 in TRM, I will do next time (just as I converted to defensive world view and militaristic policy as soon as I could)

I have never build strategic bombers as Germany. It may work, but it seems like a huge investment of IC and tech research for little gain.
I might try it as I could easily bomb the UK IC (so long as I have better tactics) and then the Soviet IC in Urals during the winter periods. Also they're great against airfields aren't they? I wanna destroy the RAF!

If you can build 4-8 naval bombers, that would be ideal, but I never build them until the point where I have almost defeated the Soviets, and I don't start researching naval bomber techs until late 1941 or early 1942.
OK good to know, especially as Naval Bombers are good against ships, (unlike subs in AoD) can attack docks (unlike subs in AoD) and can easily bypass the Royal Navy. (unlike subs in AoD)

I usually put 6 BBIV and 4 CV and 6 CVL in my production queue after I launch Barbarossa and after I have discovered the Ship Assembly Line tech. That way, by the time I achieve Bitter Peace, then the Kriegsmarine should be large enough to attempt a Sealowe.
OK, when do you research carriers? Throughout 1936 onwards? Wouldn't paratroopers do the job?


Also, just a minor problem that I've solved: Italy starts off with no naval brigades for any of its ships, I used my 1.02 vanilla version to copy and paste the correct ships with correct brigades (it also mean Italy has more ships to produce at the start) and edited the IDs so it works (at least when I tested it)
 
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just to clarify on my own success with my last play with TRM/AoD1.06B2, it was a bit gamey/alternate history :

1. I forced a white peace minus Elsass/Lothringen with France in 1940 when I met vichy event conditions, then edited the save file to put France in the Comintern, make them rabidly anti UK and a Leninist state, and to guard their colonies and coastline.
2. Meanwhile, the Ostwall was extended along the new post Molotov-Ribbentrop frontier with Russia. Lowering the fort damage vaue to .2 (similar to CORE mod) meant that land forts were effective, as was the Maginot Line which was won at huge MP cost but left Benelux out of the war.
3. I disbanded all original infantry and produced only Motorized for the army, no additional armor, and a few early mech and lots of mountain and HQ ( one HQ for each stack almost).
4. I also play at tech speed 1.0 (instead of 1.5), but with no early tech penalty but for one tech team for each 30 IC (but with an Allies/Comintern research bonus of 20%). So for most the game tech is quite slow with only around 6-8 tech teams.
5. I also use my custom events that hit UK resources/supplies for an effective blockade, so I build a quite large sub fleet and have them deployed all around the UK. They end up sinking the RN but at significant cost. I don't think this does anything at all but it's fun.
6. I then launched Barbarossa in 1942 (but it had been phoney war with the USSR from 1941). This is helped though with a few small scale armoured raids into Russian territory. The French front is in a reduced Maginot Line (lvl 5 forts except in Mulhouse, 0, where there were no ouvrages), but France of course has to be knocked out first.
7. Oh, because I've increased the strategic bombing damage against IC to 7 (from 1 IIRC?) the RAF is a huge threat against the homeland, but because France is hostile they must fly to NE Germany which means the interceptor force can be concentrated. But after the US enters the war it is touch and go.
8. I ignore Finland and Italy/N Africa as insignificant sideshows.
9. Oh, and I got lucky, was able to make a huge encirclement of almost all of Belorussia and trapped 100+ Russian divisions.

I haven't ever played a game beyond Bitter Peace as I don't see the point. And then the US nukes me so meh...
 
So you modded a mod? Surely that screwed with the AI?
I know, whenever I get bitter peace I feel like 'what's the point in continuing?' I guess I could do a Sealion and possibly invade India, but after defeating the USSR it just feels like there's nothing more (challenging) to do
And encircling 100 divisions just shows how unprepared the AI is, even in a mod that gives huge benefits to the AI.