Thanks for the post! Though I am slightly disappointed that many of the suggestions I gave were passed over, in this post I will once again point them out to you.
I will repost my suggestion tree from before for your convenience:
1. Political map
Georgia should control the location of Tuapse on the Abkhazian coast, as it is believed to be the location of the northwesternmost point of Georgia -
Nicopsis, in what is today
Novomikhaylovsky, which is actually north of the city of Tuapse. Evidently, I wrote this too late for it to have had any meaningful impact in the old thread. In addition, Georgia should directly own Rutul, Bjni and Yerevan (the latter two explained
here) as can be seen on the map on the right.
North Caucasian polities (Alania, Dzurdzuketi, Avaria, etc.) should be tributaries in a Georgian IO, which would probably represent their relationship with the kingdom the best.
Khachen should control more of its eponymous province, as seen on the map on the right.
Samtskhe shouldn't control the location of Khikhani, and in its place, Georgia should (as the Saeristavo of Adjara, abstracted as an integral part of the country). Side note about Samtskhe - I think it'd be best if its map colour were white, to simulate its proto-national flag/banner more accurately. I feel like Samtskhe would most likely be a march type of subject in real life, but as this has a great deal of impact on gameplay, I leave it to the developers to decide whether or not to make it so in-game.
"Armenia", the Zakarid dynasty vassal, has an anachronistic name. I believe that the locations the country currently holds should be directly integrated into the kingdom, but nevertheless, if the developers do decide that the nation should remain, its name should be changed. The dynasty never claimed to represent "Armenia", nor did it ever do so. I suggest changing the name of the country to "Zakarids". I wrote about their true dynastic name of "Mkhargrdzeli"
here.
Alastani shouldn't control the location of Kldekari, as seen on the map. It should be a fiefdom type of subject.
The Duchy of Saarishiano (Shaki) should extend to include all of the province of Shaki (as modelled in-game), as according to the principal historian of the time period, Hamdallah Mustawfi Qazvini, the land was only lost to Shirvan in 1339. I've written more about this in
"Georgia map feedback". Shaki should definitely be a march, considering it is the nexus of Georgian garrisoning against invasions from the east, with the
Siba wall.
2. Ilkhanate
As we've proven many times, Georgia had de facto left the Ilkhanate by 1330. While we do not yet know how the mechanics of this IO will work, I doubt that this map should include Georgia and its subjects in 1337.
As a quick recap: according to
Donald Rayfield in
"Edge of Empires: A History of Georgia":
"[In 1313]
His uncle, Giorgi V, was once again crowned, and this time stayed put. He aimed, from the start, to be king of all Georgia and he had cooperation from the Mongols, particularly from his suzerain Emir Choban, who happily gave Giorgi autonomy and tax revenues in exchange for Georgian help in suppressing Mongol rebels. (This required an expedition into Anatolia in 1315, the last time that Georgian soldiers fought for the Mongols.)"
"Thus in 1334 Georgia was fully reunited: Giorgi V won the title of brts’qinvale (Brilliant). Much of his kingdom, though free of Mongol taxation since 1330, still lay in ruins."
"In 1327 Khan Abu Sa’id murdered Emir Choban (his former tutor): the Mongol shackles were broken."
Edit 10/5/25: From what we saw in the YouTubers' videos, the Chobanids almost always end up attacking and invading Georgia, presumably via Ilkhanate mechanics. Considering that historically Georgia was of no relevance to either of the Il-Khanid claimaints, this is just one more reason to remove Georgia and its vassals from the IO.
3. Dynasties
The Principality of Alastani is erroneously portrayed as belonging to the Jaqeli dynasty, when in fact it was held by a royal Bagrationi dynast.
Also, why are the colours for the Jaqelis and Bagrationis the same? Are they depicted as a part of the same dynasty, with the former a cadet branch of the latter? Because if so, that's very inaccurate - they are patrilineally unrelated, as far as we know.
Shaki should most likely be held by either a Mongol Oirat dynasty, or a local Georgian one, possibly the
Grigolisdze.
4. Country Ranks
As you portrayed Ethiopia as an empire, I think it would only be fair to do the same for Georgia. The title of the Georgian monarch since 1008 had been "King of Kings", exactly like in Ethiopia. I fully understand, however, if it is a purely game balance decision.
Edit 24/05/25: after reading about the Russian Tsardom in the Muscovy TF, I think the representation of Georgia as a kingdom with a simple "king of kings" prestige modifier or something of the sort would be sufficient.
Shaki/Saarishiano should be a Duchy-tier realm as well, as it was a Saeristavo, just like Samtskhe.
5. locations
A singular addition of a location to the Georgian region (Şavşat) is very disappointing to see. Especially needed are the further divisions in the Lazeti/Lazona locations of Pontus, in western Georgia (Imereti), and in the capital region of Kvemo Kartli (more on that below).
@Georgian Noble has made a very good map for you to use a guideline (map 3).
I've made a
similar map as well, only including my proposed locations, and if you wish to investigate further yourself, the 1st map below will be of use to you:
I've also made a map for the localisations that could be made for Georgian, map 2 below.
Link
I strongly urge you to rethink your decision in this regard.
6. Provinces
Same as above, it is very disappointing that the Svaneti continues to be under the oversized province of Imereti, and Alania and Avaria still bizarrely have "de jure" ownership over Jariekhi and Omalo, respectively.
In addition, the province names of Samtskhe and Meskheti are very confusing. The regional toponyms of Meskheti and Samtskhe mean the same thing - they are variants of the endonym Meskhi, and represent one and the same region. I strongly recommend changing the name of "Meskheti" to Tao-Klarjeti.
Also, the creation of a "Lazona" province to the east of Trebizond (to represent the Thema of Lazica) would be appreciated.
Tashir should be called "Somkhiti", at least in the Georgian localisation.
Abkhazia should extend to include "Costa" and "Tuapse", though the latter was historically considered to be a part of "Jiketi", so at the very least, include the former in Abkhazia.
Same as above, I've made a map for my proposed changes to the provinces of the region:
(In this map I am not insinuating that Lazona/Lazica should be a part of the Georgia area, I just included it for illustration purposes).
7. Areas
I think the province of Tashir should be a part of the Georgian area, as it had been an integral part of Georgian statehood for millennia. The province was a part of the Kingdom of Iberia in antiquity, and remained a part of Georgia from the early 11th century up until 1921. And same as above, regarding Abkhazia's western boundary.
Something must be done about "Armenia" and the "Armenian Highlands". As of now, those areas definitely need restructuring. Historically, there was no distinction between "eastern" and "western" Armenia in this way. I think merging the two areas wouldn't be a bad idea.
8. Terrain
Some of the most agriculturally significant parts of Georgia, Kartli and Kakheti, should be grasslands, or even farmlands. Definitely not forests.
9. Natural harbours
Again, it seems like my suggestions haven't reached you, as I've given numerous sources and info about the quality of the ports of the eastern Black Sea, and yet the natural value of them is still the same as before. I attached an image of the notable (and naturally valuable) harbours of the region. I've written significantly more about this
here.
10. Languages
It is inaccurate to group Georgian, Mingrelian/Laz (AKA Zan), and Svan into the same language. True, they belong to the same language family, but they are NOT mutually intelligible, and haven't been so for 2000 years at minimum. I suggest creating 3 languages in place of them: Georgian, Zan, and Svan, as I've written previously.
Regarding court languages, I think Shaki should have it be Georgian, as it was a Georgian-ruled march since the early 12th century.
And "Dagestanian" (which I presume unites northeastern Caucasian languages) should be spelt "Dagestani".
I've written more
here.
11. Cultures
The location of Qakh should be Georgian.
There should definitely be more Laz people in Pontus. It is well-recorded that despite constituting the majority of people in rural areas, Laz people held rather little political power compared to the Pontic Greeks, hence their obscurity. In 1337, they still would've been the majority in the empire. I've attached an image of what I believe to be a fair assessment of the region. You can see my post about this matter
here.
Mingrelian should be the majority in Poti, while Georgian should constitute the majority in Ts'esi and "İspir", with Svan and Armenian minorities, respectively. Additionally, there should be a small minority (~15-20%) of Georgians in the city of Ani, as proven by the presence of multiple Georgian churches and inscriptions around the time frame of 1337.
More controversially, I don't think the Abkhaz culture (which ought to be renamed to
Apsua as it's anachronistic to refer to these people as Abkhazians in 1337) should extend that far south. This map with regard to Abkhazia (the region) more closely represents the situation by the 18th century, after the conquests of Apsua chiefs against the Principality of Mingrelia. Thus, I suggest making the current Mingrelian and Svan minorities into majorities in the locations of Sukhumi and Lata, respectively.
I will also once again reiterate that Svans and Abkhaz/Apsua people should be SOPs. As we didn't get an entry for that map mode in this thread, I will presume that this suggestion hasn't yet been implemented. Just FYI.
And finally, I think it would be great if Kartvelian-group cultures were of a similar colour, like in England with Northumbrian and English proper. I wrote more
here.
12. Religion
The Armenian Apostolic minorities of Georgia are represented well, but the Orthodox Armenian population isn't. In the 12th-13th centuries, a large part of the land held by the Zakarid-Mkhargrdzeli dynasty converted the populace to Eastern Orthodoxy, especially in the Tashir and Ani provinces. "İspir" should be Orthodox as well, along with more locations in Shaki, as that province only became Islamised in the 16th-17th centuries, after mass-scale Qizilbash settlement. I wrote more
here.
Most importantly, the Georgian pagans of Svaneti and Mtiuleti are not represented at all, which is regrettable. The old pagan beliefs of the mountain regions only really died out in the 19th century. I suggest naming this religion "K’erp’taq’vanismtsemloba" - "კერპთაყვანისმცემლობა", literally meaning idol worship. Here's a relevant Wiki article:
en.wikipedia.org
On the top right you can see my map from the previous thread - I hope you can infer the meaning of the colours and hatches without a legend.
There should be small minorities (10-15%) of Catholics in Tbilisi and Tskhumi, as there were Latin Bishoprics there, as I proved in
this post.
Shaki currently appears to have Sunni Islam as its state religion - this is wrong. In this time frame, it was Christian, like the rest of Georgia, even if one subscribes to the theory that Oirat Mongols governed the province for Georgia.
I've written at length about the cultural and religious demography of Georgia
here.
13. Raw materials
Again, it unfortunately seems like my feedback wasn't received at all, as many of the raw goods which I pointed out to be incorrect are still in place, most notably wheat in Kutaisi and iron in Gori, though the silk in Gremi is very nice to see. I suggest taking a look at my extensive suggestions
here.
14. Miscellaneous
The possible wife of king Giorgi V was discussed
here.
1. "Tblisi" market is misspelled, and should instead be "Tbilisi". The Perso-Turkic localisation of the city is "Tiflis". This also applies to the location itself.
2. We didn't get to see the Building Based Countries of the region, so we can't know whether the suggestions regarding the Genoese trading outposts on the Georgian coast were added. If it wasn't, I'll share my post about it again
here.
Genoa (or the Genoese vassal, the
Gazaria, based in Crimea) should have a Building Based vassal, owning several locations in coastal western Georgia, called the
Consulate of Savastopoli or
Sebastopolis.
I think it would be interesting if the country granted both Genoa and Georgia mutually higher diplomatic ranges, as it is known that the diplomats of the 13-15th centuries used Genoese trade routes to travel from east to west and vice versa, to great effect.
3. Population, and its probable size in Georgia of 1337 was discussed
here. To summarise, I suggest slightly increasing the number of pops to 3 million.
4. The map is clearly work in progress with regards to the towns and cities, so I'll refer you to @ SuperLexxe's map about them in this same thread. In summary, I believe Tbilisi, Akhaltsikhe, Kutaisi, and Tskhumi (Sukhumi) at the minimum should be cities, though this is very much a balance discussion, so I can't give an informed opinion about this.
5. I've written about the potential roads of Georgia in 1337
here. In summary, a road going through the
Darial Pass would be nice.
6. I have outlined and written about the potential cores and claims that Georgia should have on game start in 1337
here.
7. Kutaisi should be a secondary capital of Georgia (though not itinerary, like the Holy Roman/Bavarian one). It served as the summer capital for the kings up until the formal dissolution of the kingdom in 1490.
Overall, admittedly, I am quite disappointed with these changes. I truly don't want to sound demanding, but I feel as though this feedback post was rushed, at least for the region I can speak for. Sorry to
@Pavía if this sounds too demanding.
