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This is about as good as I can do for Kazakhstan for now. A lot of guesswork in the east especially around Upper Irtysh and Lake Balkhash but it does seem to line up pretty well with the sources I do have. Argyns are a bit anachronistic but they represent the Muslim Kipchak community of Saryarka and surrounding areas that would eventually (as in just a few decades after) become the first Argyns of Kara-Khoja. The rest of the Kipchaks are represented by a united Kipchak culture the western border of which goes along the Ural river, beyond which lie some sort of Tatar cultures which I am not going to delve into the setup of. Kipchaks are surprisingly well represented in archaeology of northernmost Kazakhstan but it does make some sense considering there are Kipchaks there today as well. The setup could always be better and some of the stuff here may be misinterpretation of the data but the connections of stone kurgans and memory complexes point to the Altai and thus Naimans, so it fits pretty well. Keraits aren't that well represented by archaeology but there are mentions of them going to the Irtysh and being there during the invasion of Timur.
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This is about as good as I can do for Kazakhstan for now. A lot of guesswork in the east especially around Upper Irtysh and Lake Balkhash but it does seem to line up pretty well with the sources I do have. Argyns are a bit anachronistic but they represent the Muslim Kipchak community of Saryarka and surrounding areas that would eventually (as in just a few decades after) become the first Argyns of Kara-Khoja. The rest of the Kipchaks are represented by a united Kipchak culture the western border of which goes along the Ural river, beyond which lie some sort of Tatar cultures which I am not going to delve into the setup of. Kipchaks are surprisingly well represented in archaeology of northernmost Kazakhstan but it does make some sense considering there are Kipchaks there today as well. The setup could always be better and some of the stuff here may be misinterpretation of the data but the connections of stone kurgans and memory complexes point to the Altai and thus Naimans, so it fits pretty well. Keraits aren't that well represented by archaeology but there are mentions of them going to the Irtysh and being there during the invasion of Timur.
View attachment 1329307

Really amazing job!!!

The only part I fear, is that developers did not create separate culture for every mongol tribe. So I have started to not see a reason to do it with Kipchaks (in general meaning as all Turkic people of steppe)
 
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Really amazing job!!!

The only part I fear, is that developers did not create separate culture for every mongol tribe. So I have started to not see a reason to do it with Kipchaks (in general meaning as all Turkic people of steppe)
Yeah they are somewhat inconsistent with how granular they want to be. In Mongolia I somewhat understand uniting Mongols under a single culture although Oirats, Daur, Khamag and Buryats exist. But when you look at some people like the Evenks who have been split into single tribes as cultures. Then again we haven't received the Mongolia feedback yet so there's a chance they have done something to the Mongols there.
 
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Yeah they are somewhat inconsistent with how granular they want to be. In Mongolia I somewhat understand uniting Mongols under a single culture although Oirats, Daur, Khamag and Buryats exist. But when you look at some people like the Evenks who have been split into single tribes as cultures. Then again we haven't received the Mongolia feedback yet so there's a chance they have done something to the Mongols there.
I would guess that different teams worked on different areas, so they weren't planning on 100% consistency until the final reviews
 
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This is about as good as I can do for Kazakhstan for now. A lot of guesswork in the east especially around Upper Irtysh and Lake Balkhash but it does seem to line up pretty well with the sources I do have. Argyns are a bit anachronistic but they represent the Muslim Kipchak community of Saryarka and surrounding areas that would eventually (as in just a few decades after) become the first Argyns of Kara-Khoja. The rest of the Kipchaks are represented by a united Kipchak culture the western border of which goes along the Ural river, beyond which lie some sort of Tatar cultures which I am not going to delve into the setup of. Kipchaks are surprisingly well represented in archaeology of northernmost Kazakhstan but it does make some sense considering there are Kipchaks there today as well. The setup could always be better and some of the stuff here may be misinterpretation of the data but the connections of stone kurgans and memory complexes point to the Altai and thus Naimans, so it fits pretty well. Keraits aren't that well represented by archaeology but there are mentions of them going to the Irtysh and being there during the invasion of Timur.
View attachment 1329307

Which language would each of these speak? Since some seem to be defined as both Turkic and Mongol.
 
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3. Settlements from later chronicles, historical and old names.This was the third priority. Certain places have a known name origin, mentions in local chronicles and documents and more relevant previous historic names.
Also one more thing on one location - turkic Mariupol could be Boly-Saray, a Nogay town in 16 century that was on Bilosaray peninsula (those names can be connected):
Evliya Celebi mentioned about it during his travel to Crimea.
I have updated the map and the table with this suggestion, thanks.
I also attach here the mention of Balisira sanjak directly in the Evliya Celebi book of travels (page 93).
Balisira.png
1751642948102.png


In Turkish/Tatar Balısıra (source – Wiki Kefe Eyalet) or later spelling Bolı-Saray as in the Ukrainian wiki page (Wiki Боли-Сарай).
Now it's the Bilosarai peninsula in the Sea of Azov.
Adomah can be still an alternative.
 
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Suggestions for SoPs and TAGs again. Whether or not Vetluga or Perm are TAGs would be up to the devs.
1751907458197.png


Not sure if all of these principalities should be SoPs yet at this time but I tried placing them in more correct areas than they were previously. Many of the locations are in the wrong places so maybe look into that too, and some more locations could be added so some of the principalities aren't smaller than they were.
1751907510530.png

  • Udmurt SoPs: Not sure if these should be SoPs but mapped them out anyways just in case.
    • Ar: Southern Udmurts, very little information, Chumoitlin culture.
    • Kalmez: The Central group of Udmurts/Vyatka Udmurts, Kocherginskaya culture, may represent the predecessors of modern Northern Udmurts.
    • Cheptsa: Represents the Chepetsk culture, in decline since the 13th century, may or may not have been Northern Udmurts or a substrate.
  • Permyak SoPs/TAGs:
    • Perm/Yazva Komi: Where Perm the great was localized
    • Zyusdin Komi: Localized mostly on Afanasyevo location so may be encompassing some other groups too.
  • Zyriane SoPs: Based on the various Zyriane subgroups
    • Emvatas
    • Viled
    • Luzsa
    • Ezhvatas
    • Uzhga
    • Syktyvsayas
    • Pinega
    • Udorasa
  • Vetluga Mari: Either a TAG or a SoP, as a TAG would be a subject of the Golden Horde but as a SoP the lands should be part of the Golden Horde instead
 
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Final images for 1337 naming and dynamic Ukrainian naming.I start with them for TLDR. And then I will cover each category in detail.
Yellow dashed line is the current extent of the East Slavic cultures (even though East Slavic cultures should be represented further to the South with some clusters on Don and Volga, but it's another topic).
Based on these suggestions also some corrections of Province names are needed.

LEGEND
1751834288953.png
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Yellow background
Flavouful historic region names​
Pink background
Incorrect province names​
White background
Another more relevant location as a province name​
Green background
Another location as a province name
(from my location suggestions post)​


MAP
Ukraine Provinces.png


SHORT DETAILS
  • Nadsania (Ukr. Надсяння), Opillia, Bukovyna/Bucovina, Budjak, Kodymia/Codimia, Posullia, Posamaria are historical and flavourful regions and excellent province names. They can be seen in this map of Ukrainian ethnographic or historical regions:
UA historical regions.png
  • Bessarabia is the whole eastern Moldova area up to Khotyn, while Budjak is exactly that province.
  • Halychyna is a historical region that can be created from two tiny provinces.
  • A special remark about Kodymia, it covers northern part of the respective province around the river of Kodyma. But this is one of the oldest region names known from old mas, latinised Codimia, so it would be great to have it as a province name:
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  • Rename Eastern Podolia to Rov and Torhovytsia to Eastern Podolia. Because your 'Eastern Podolia' is only the eastern part of the former Podolian Voievodship, but not the region of Podolia. For any Ukrainian it will be confusing and look ridiculous. It even does not make sense from the area map's point of view:
1751917765139.png
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  • Kodaky is a modern village, I suggest calling that province as Sich since all Zaporizhian Siches were there (except for one). Old name of the castle was Kodak or Kudak, as mentioned in my location suggestions.
  • Donetsk should be Donets, similarly to the location suggestion in the quoted post.
  • Djambuluk is the historical Crimean name of that exact territory, so rename Qalancaq to Djambuluk. Wiki Джамбуйлук.
  • Nizhyn and Ichnia must be renamed to Putyvl and Romen since those are the oldest pre-Mongolian towns of the region and definitely the most important ones.
  • Kursk looks way too big with 8 or 9 locations, so Oskol province can be created.
  • Bielska Sloboda is a definitely inappropriate name since it's in Polish I assume. I suggest calling it Aydar by the dominant settlement and river there.
  • And please, transfer Lutava location to the Pereiaslav province from Chernihiv; that appendix looks a bit ridiculous :D
Other provinces in the deep Steppe can be renamed to alternative names of other locations to look a bit more natural for the game start date.
The one absolutely inappropriate is Piterka, since it is a Communist-related name from the XX century. It can be renamed to Uzen, the name of the dominant river there.
Also the capital region along the lower Volga and its mouth should be better represented as rich/fertile provinces vs. wild Steppe provinces imo.
 
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I think the development line shouldn't follow quite as closely to the border between the Golden Horde and the Orthodox countries. It looks like they didn't tax or raid beyond their borders like nice kind neighbours.
 
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Hello @Pavía, @Aldaron and everyone missing tinto maps recently and welcome one more week to another Tinto Maps Locations Feedback post!
Today, in cooperation with @ibvfteh and @Patron Pes I have prepared a review of the Steppes so that the Golden Horde has more relevant location names for the start date and dynamic naming as well. This particularly applies to the European part since you have made some map changes there (added new locations and renamed a few). This review takes those changes into account; otherwise, 90% is the same as what I already posted. Regarding Volga Bulgaria, Ural, and Siberia, previous posts are still relevant.
So, without further ado, let's start with the maps.


Final images for 1337 naming and dynamic Ukrainian naming.I start with them for TLDR. And then I will cover each category in detail.
Yellow dashed line is the current extent of the East Slavic cultures (even though East Slavic cultures should be represented further to the South with some clusters on Don and Volga, but it's another topic).
Full1337.png
I posted the maps and my suggestions on Twitter, and they became quite popular, reaching some Crimean Tatar enthusiasts who pointed out a couple of errors for the sake of consistency if correct Crimean Tatar spelling is used for the Crimean culture.
Otherwise, they were really fascinated by the level of detail in the original map and by my suggestions :)

  • Aqmecit in Crimea must be Aqmeçit,
  • Kuyanlık -> Quyanlıq,
  • Tokmak -> Toqmaq,
  • and my suggestion Kocabey must be Qocabey.
Highlighted the locations:
Changes CrT.png
 
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Culture minorities in the Golden Horde – East Slavs, Armenians, Greeks, Italians

DISCLAIMER, IMPORTANT NOTES:
  • by presence I do not mean majority;
  • those wild field locations must be extremely sparsely populated (barely have the minimum of 1k pops, except for a couple of known big cities) and have a big population contrast with the Ruthenian region and the Black Sea, Volga, Crimea areas.

I’ve been reading William of Rubruck’s book of travels to the eastern parts (1250s), and I have found a strong case for extending Slavic cultures eastward to the Don River and southward to the lower Dnieper, probably reaching the forests of the Great Meadow (that must be represented as a thin impassable lake instead of the river in that section, just a reminder).

This note was written in Perekop
To the north of the modern Kherson oblast
Tanais = Don
Rubruck1.png
Rubruck2.png
Rubruck4.png

Especially Rubruck points out that the Mongols relied on settled Slavic pops to run ferry and post stations along rivers and routes because the nomadic Kipchaks and Tatars couldn’t handle that, they were always moving for pasture.
Even though Rubruck’s journey was 80 years before the game starts, this system probably stuck around for a longer period.

Rubruck3.png
Rubruck5.png
Rubruck6.png

He also found lots of Ruthenian craftsmen, clergy, and slaves in big Horde cities like Saray (and even Karakorum) – can be easily found in the text by searching the word "Ruthenian".

Based on the Rubruck's definition of the Rus boundaries, I drew a map with rather a conservative estimation. Feel free to improve it.
A bit extended to the Upper Don and the Lower Dnieper and the Great Meadow and added clusters along the Volga, Don, Siverskyi Donets, Black Sea and in Majar.

Slavic.png

I'd also like to add another map with suggestions of significant Horde minorities in the main trade clusters, such as the Armenians, Greek and Italian merchants based on the main ports on the portolans of the XIV century:
ArmGreIta.png
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Culture minorities in the Golden Horde



I’ve been reading William of Rubruck’s book of travels to the eastern parts (1250s), and I have found a strong case for extending Slavic cultures eastward to the Don River and southward to the lower Dnieper, probably reaching the forests of the Great Meadow (that must be represented as a thin impassable lake instead of the river in that section, just a reminder).

This note was written in Perekop
To the north of the modern Kherson oblast
Tanais = Don

Especially Rubruck points out that the Mongols relied on settled Slavic pops to run ferry and post stations along rivers and routes because the nomadic Kipchaks and Tatars couldn’t handle that, they were always moving for pasture.
Even though Rubruck’s journey was 80 years before the game starts, this system probably stuck around for a longer period.


He also found lots of Ruthenian craftsmen, clergy, and slaves in big Horde cities like Saray (and even Karakorum) – can be easily found in the text by searching the word "Ruthenian".

Based on the Rubruck's definition of the Rus boundaries, I drew a map with rather a conservative estimation. Feel free to improve it.
A bit extended to the Upper Don and the Lower Dnieper and the Great Meadow and added clusters along the Volga, Don, Siverskyi Donets, Black Sea and in Majar.


I'd also like to add another map with suggestions of significant Horde minorities in the main trade clusters, such as the Armenians, Greek and Italian merchants based on the main ports on the portolans of the XIV century:
-
Alans were also widespread in Majar and the Lower Volga, and there were Turks in the Volga Delta from the Saqsin period still living there and possibly constituting a significant portion of the urban population of Lower Volga.
 
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I made this suggestion for Slavic boundaries with the Cumans a while back based on archaeological studies.
 
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I made this suggestion for Slavic boundaries with the Cumans a while back based on archaeological studies.
Yes, your and @ibvfteh's maps of the Russian borderland are more detailed, and I’d stick with them.
Plus:
  • Slavic minority clusters along the rivers and expanding south from Kyiv, based on Rubruck’s book,
  • Armenian, Greek, and Italian minorities from my map,
  • Avar and Turkic clusters where you mentioned,
will together create a much better map of cultures and population.
–––
And a couple of things I forgot to mention yesterday:
  1. Outside those richer settled trade areas, the population in locations must have been very low, barely reaching the minimum of 1000, since Rubruck mentioned that at times they didn’t encounter any people for several days of travel (image 1).
  2. I drew the southern borderland based on Rubruck’s notes as well as on a map of the main Horde archaeological sites in southern Ukraine (image 2), which roughly indicate the border between the Kipchaks and the Ruthenians. The Kichkas (and nearby Khortytsia, Protolche) and Igren sites contain numerous Slavic artifacts from this and earlier periods, so their presence in the area is well-documented.
  3. Agree with the need of another Russian culture - Ryazanian/Verkhovian.
1
2
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Culture minorities in the Golden Horde – East Slavs, Armenians, Greeks, Italians



I’ve been reading William of Rubruck’s book of travels to the eastern parts (1250s), and I have found a strong case for extending Slavic cultures eastward to the Don River and southward to the lower Dnieper, probably reaching the forests of the Great Meadow (that must be represented as a thin impassable lake instead of the river in that section, just a reminder).

This note was written in Perekop
To the north of the modern Kherson oblast
Tanais = Don

Especially Rubruck points out that the Mongols relied on settled Slavic pops to run ferry and post stations along rivers and routes because the nomadic Kipchaks and Tatars couldn’t handle that, they were always moving for pasture.
Even though Rubruck’s journey was 80 years before the game starts, this system probably stuck around for a longer period.


He also found lots of Ruthenian craftsmen, clergy, and slaves in big Horde cities like Saray (and even Karakorum) – can be easily found in the text by searching the word "Ruthenian".

Based on the Rubruck's definition of the Rus boundaries, I drew a map with rather a conservative estimation. Feel free to improve it.
A bit extended to the Upper Don and the Lower Dnieper and the Great Meadow and added clusters along the Volga, Don, Siverskyi Donets, Black Sea and in Majar.


I'd also like to add another map with suggestions of significant Horde minorities in the main trade clusters, such as the Armenians, Greek and Italian merchants based on the main ports on the portolans of the XIV century:
-
sorry, even though it is good, I disagree and believe there were much more Slavic majority areas. For example entire Kursk area
 
I'd also like to add another map with suggestions of significant Horde minorities in the main trade clusters, such as the Armenians, Greek and Italian merchants based on the main ports on the portolans of the XIV century:
I think the very same areas as for Armanians, Greek, Italians are valid for Alans too.

By the way I did not find how many dialects are Cumans split into, does anyone know? or if they have one kipchak dialect for Crimean, Kazan, Kazakh names and all other cumans that now have different languages.