Tinto Maps #4 Poland, Ruthenia, Baltic Feedback

[Patron Pes]

Gonna repost here:

Now, a remark regarding Novhorod-Siverskyi. It seems that the few sources we have suggest that its coat of arms was very similar to the one in Volhynia (i.e., a silver cross on a red field).

This symbol is from Armorial Lyncenich (XV century) page 243 , marked as "Nowengrote"

This cross can also be seen on the coins of Kaributas, prince of Novhorod-Siverskyi from the 14th century. Most likely, this pattern was put into use by the Olhovychi from the 12th century onward.Example (although perhaps not a very clear one) below:

Seal of Prince Rostyslav Yaroslavych from the end of the 12th century.

That cross is also same as Savoia, Denmark and maybe dozens of other not only Volyn, so I'm not sure it can be used anyway. And I am from aroun Chernihiv and interested in local history but never saw any mentions of this white-red cross here. Maybe that COA book had mistake.
I think Olhovych sign is the most authentic and locally related, my personal preference. That wall with entrance modern-day is about the town itself and olhovych sign about the severian land.

 

[Witcher587]

Since you consider changes over the Polish-Teuton war I'd like only to remind you of 1 thing. That Duchy of Inowrocław shouldn't exist in the game as in 1320s Father of current king of Poland made a deal with dukes of Inowrocław and Dobrzyn and they exchanged their Inowrocław/Dobrzyn Duchies for Duchies of Sieradz & Łęczyca.

After 1320s exchange of lands deal. The only independent Duchy in the region of Kujawy/Kuyavia was Duchy of Gniewkowo which should be added to the game with its own location of Gniewkowo too because it was a diplomatic ground in negotiations between two sides of war.

Take a look on these links and study it.
edit: I copied this comment from #15 Tinto Flavor as it better fits here.

Władysław the Hunchback Duke of Dobrzyn that moved to the Duchy of Łęczyca in 1327​

Kazimierz III gniewkowski Duke of Gniewkowo Teutons occupied his duchy in 1332-1333​

Przemysł inowrocławski Duke of Inowrocław that moved to the Duchy of Sieradz in 1327​

(Kazimierz III gniewkowski(Casimir III of Gniewkowo) is not Kazimierz III Wielki(Casimir III The Great)​

 

[Daniel the Finlander]

Please fix this border or it will forever annoy me

Edit:
If you need location names heres some suggestions from latvian wikipedia, courtesy of google translate

Also:

Aizpute - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Suggested locations:

1: Saka/Sackenhausen (incl. Cirava)
2. Aizpute/Hasenpoth (incl. Embute, Valtaiki)
3. Durben

This border is important because it remained relevant for a long time even after the Bishopric became part of the Duchy of Courland:

District of Pilten - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Polesie Admiral]

wow whats going on here? whats the country snaking through halych?

 

[King_Potat]

wow whats going on here? whats the country snaking through halych?
View attachment 1287664

It is an ongoing game. France is larger than it usually is, Schleswig took a bite out of Denmark, Scania is free, Balliol isn't present, Venice owns a huge chunk of Herzegovina, and various states in the HRE annexed other states. My guess is this game has been going on for at least 20ish years, so expect some deviations as can be seen throughout the map, hence why Halych and Volhynia look odd

 

[Daniel the Finlander]

It is an ongoing game. France is larger than it usually is, Schleswig took a bite out of Denmark, Scania is free, Balliol isn't present, Venice owns a huge chunk of Herzegovina, and various states in the HRE annexed other states. My guess is this game has been going on for at least 20ish years, so expect some deviations as can be seen throughout the map, hence why Halych and Volhynia look odd

Eu4 blobbing and bordergore are back baby

 

[Polesie Admiral]

Eu4 blobbing and bordergore are back baby

NOOOOO

 

[Kotyk-durkotyk]

wow whats going on here? whats the country snaking through halych?
View attachment 1287664

If UI behaves itself this way it is really concerning to be honest.

Let's just assume it is the Golden Horde. I can get why it took those locations from Halych and split it, but why TF did it take Kholm province from Volhynia...? Maybe just because it had lower control than capital province.

 

[Polesie Admiral]

If UI behaves itself this way it is really concerning to be honest.

Let's just assume it is the Golden Horde. I can get why it took those locations from Halych and split it, but why TF did it take Kholm province from Volhynia...? Maybe just because it had lower control than capital province.

well i dont get why GH would attack it, wasnt it a tributary and then under Polish suzeranity

 

[Kotyk-durkotyk]

well i dont get why GH would attack it, wasnt it a tributary and then under Polish suzeranity

I meant just as an example because it obviously attacked from that side
My point was quite a weird choice to occupy.

 

[Dan29067]

If UI behaves itself this way it is really concerning to be honest.

Let's just assume it is the Golden Horde. I can get why it took those locations from Halych and split it, but why TF did it take Kholm province from Volhynia...? Maybe just because it had lower control than capital province.

Maybe Kholm was released in peace deal as releasable tag?

 

[Kotyk-durkotyk]

Maybe Kholm was released in peace deal as releasable tag? Because it looks like that

The name is quite short, it should have been displayed then.
Also it seems to me that there is a narrow 'bridge' to the Lutsk province (see locations Ratne and Liubeshiv), so they are connected.

 

[Dan29067]

The name is quite short, it should have been displayed then.
Also it seems to me that there is a narrow 'bridge' to the Lutsk province (see locations Ratne and Liubeshiv), so they are connected.

Yeah, you are right, looks like technically neighbouring province was taken so such kind of bordergore can happen

 

[Aquila SPQR]

OK, that's disappointing. I can't decipher the name, JPG compression go brrrr:

It doesn't look like "Golden Horde".

If it's a typical PDX-style peace deal then it's disappointing to see. But there's a possibility it's a civil war/rebels though and this would be fine.

 

[Polesie Admiral]

If it's a typical PDX-style peace deal then it's disappointing to see. But there's a possibility it's a civil war/rebels though and this would be fine.

shall we ask the devs about the bordergore?

 

[Aquila SPQR]

shall we ask the devs about the bordergore?

I would love to see more screens of how the map (mostly political, but religious and cultural too) looks like after 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 years of one playthrough.

 

[Polesie Admiral]

I would love to see more screens of how the map (mostly political, but religious and cultural too) looks like after 100, 200, 300, 400 and 500 years of one playthrough.

honestly i just wanna know why the AI goes for bordergore peace deals outside the hre

 

[Dan29067]

honestly i just wanna know why the AI goes for bordergore peace deals outside the hre

Technically, it didn't, because all locations do have a connection, so there is nothing wrong from the AI's point of view. There are many more locations and provinces in PC than in EU4, so these kinds of borders can happen. Also, the shape of the Chełm province (which is accurate) allows for the potential of such bordergore. One possible way to resolve this case (though not many others) is to make the northern tip of the Kamin location a bit longer, so that the small border between the Ratne and Liubeshiv locations would be removed (although I don't know how historically accurate this change would be).

Also, I think the control mechanics should help here. I doubt that much control could be exerted through such narrow corridors. On the other hand, locations with less control may be cheaper to take, so how does the AI balance these factors?

 

[Polesie Admiral]

hwey @Pavía sorry for the ping, can we have a better look at this snake bordergore please?

 

[Linbot#6018]

Eu4 blobbing and bordergore are back baby

I do personally think that the idea that having control as a mechanic on its own will solve bordergore is unrealistic, we need high-concept mechanics to actually represent how real-world states expanded and consolidated. But that's off-topic for this thread.